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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:00:09 AM EDT
[#1]
Actually to have a Catholic wedding, in a church, blessed by a Priest, it is a rule. I knew the "rules" before I proposed to my fiance. I told her under no circumstances would I convert, nor would sign a document stating the children would be raised Catholic. It created problems because no church was willing to marry us unless I agreed to be locked into the Catholic religion. The only loophole that I found was in some cases you could agree to have the children raised as Christians and that would permissable with the right preist. Thankfully the whole situation fell apart and I never had to go through any of that. Forcing people into a specific religion is just wrong. It's wrong for a boyfriend/girlfriend to do it and it's wrong for a Church to do it. That's just one of the many reason I have no use for the Catholic Church anymore. Because of my experiences with Catholic girls, the "rules" of the Catholic church, and all the crap they have gotten themselves into lately, I've vowed never to date a Catholic again. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:02:35 AM EDT
[#2]
/\
See all that arguing? Wanna do that all the time with the woman you are living with? If she can't live with "I'm Catholic, drop it" then get rid of her. I had a born again roommate in college, nice guy but the anti-Catholic crap he spouted was bizarro. "YOU PRAY TO MARYYYYYYY!" 
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:02:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Dude...you don't know the half of it...  |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:04:00 AM EDT
[#4]
No kidding, I've been to Greek Orthodox masses "Catholicism with less kneeling" Edit Catholics can marry non catholics, converting is not required, however the non catholic must promise to raise the children as catholics in order to have a church ceremony |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:05:26 AM EDT
[#5]
[homer]Hummmm Party at Iamthe NRA's house[homer] |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:07:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Then how did I get a Roman Catholic wedding, blessed by a Priest when I was not Catholic? How did my in-laws get a Roman Catholic wedding, when my father-in-law is a Baptist? I have several other examples. Plus I have talked to my Priest about this subject. You are wrong. eta- Also nobody had me sign any document, nor did I see any document to sign. Other than the marriage certificate. eta again - I am glad to hear that I am not going to see you at mass. And that you have vowed to leave all the Catholic girls alone. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:24:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Religion ruins many things and your relationship with this woman could be one of them.
Religion sux. Denominationalism sux. Relationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ is another thing entirely, I love, value and enjoy having a relationship with God through His Son Jesus. It gives me hope, peace, strength and freedom. I hear you mentioning quite a bit about God in your first post (admittedly I did not read this entire thread) BUT we are not saved by believing in God. Satan himself believes in God. You are saved through faith in Jesus Christ, faith that He was crucified with the sins of the whole world on his shoulders, died that same day, was buried and on the third day rose from the dead to live forever as the risen Savior, God's only Son. Where is your mention of your faith in Jesus? I'm assuming here, but through experience, most women our age have had a failed marriage or even two. Most of these marriages have been to men who would claim to believe in God, saying nothing about Jesus, but on the other hand would cheat on their wives, lie to them, be emotionally and physically abusive to them and just not be the spiritual heads of the home women are looking for. Sounds to me like this woman has seen the light and is conducting interviews to find a man who is really saved and one who put's Jesus 1st in his life, even above her. I hope there are a few more like her. If you're done with her, and she weighs less than 140 lbs, give her my #....... 
Start with being totally honest. Women like that even if your answer does not exactly match what they wanted to hear the honesty is appreciated. You might save yourself and her some heartache in the process. Good luck. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:30:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Very +1. And Swire, that was a very good post. I agree a person shouldn't be forced to convert, it should be willingly. If the issue is forced it will harm the relationship Sgtar15 |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:31:16 AM EDT
[#9]
My only complaint about Catholic girls was that they start much too late. Bada-bing. Anywho.... yep. My Dad is Methodist, Mom's Catholic. My wife and I married in the Chuch and like I said, she was Baptist. Interesting note - our pastor insisted we get married in the Church before she converted. The theory being we wouldn't be living in sin at Easter when she became Catholic. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:55:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Why aren't I a Christian? I am genuinely curious, not trying to start a flame fest, particularly with you, friend! |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:07:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Let's see, you claim you weren't Catholic yet now you are say you talked to your Priest and you go to mass? I'm confused. Somewhere along the line you must have converted. Did your conversion play into anything that the Church was asking at the time you got married? I also stated that the Priest we were dealing with wouldn't allow it. The Catholic church is so broad you can find a Priest that agrees with anything. Right now there are Priests that agree that being gay is ok and there is a high ranking Church official who says it's ok to vote for pro-choice candidates. Just because one Priest okays something doesn't mean that view matches the offical rules of the church. The rules are still there even if they are ignored by many. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:14:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Nonsense! Christian bashing is the last acceptable form of discrimination. Unless, for some reason, you don't think that Catholics are Christians? Do you think in the last days that anyone is going to give a hoot and holler what church you belong to? Eric The(WeWerePersecutedAtTheBeginning,WeWillBePersecutedAtTheEnd)Hun 
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:29:11 AM EDT
[#13]
I was gonna post my views, but no need now. Well said, bvmjethead. I agree. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:32:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Do you consider a Christian to be outside your religion? |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:33:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Could not agree more. The enemy here is satan folks. satan could care less if you go to church. he get's upset when you tap into the power source.......the name of Jesus, the power in the shed blood of Jesus. he's pissed off when you start to do what Jesus commanded and begin to share the life changing power of the blood of Jesus, the power to heal that is in His name, the power to make ALL things new. satan just LOVES religious folk, he hates people who dare to believe AND when those believers allow the Gospel to change the way they live and think. What church you belong to no more get's you saved than standing in a garage makes you a car. What church you attend does not determine squat in the spiritual world, God looks at your heart and all He is concerned with is if he sees Jesus in there. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:35:47 AM EDT
[#16]
For whatever it's worth, I honestly believe that 2 people. 1 protestant, 1 catholic, both seriously believing in their respective faiths, will find that while the similarities will get them a long way, the differences will make things tough.
I'm pretty sure I could live with a 'different' protestant, but I doubt seriously that I could marry and raise children with a catholic....don't get me wrong, that's not a slight to 'their' faith, it's just an acknowledgment that many arguements would ensue if both were passionate believers, as they should be. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:50:25 AM EDT
[#17]
Tim, my friend, I am not speaking as though what I'm saying is Gospel, it's just an opinion. I could be wrong and freely admit my infallibility. My mother's family (straight from Italy, BTW) is entirely Catholic. From my exposure to the Catholic Faith, I've generally had the opinion that the Catholic Church saw itself as its own religion, its own faith, not a *denomination* of a wider faith. Again, just my opinion based on my own observations. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:02:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Eric, read this thread... some of the very posters here have said that Catholics are NOT Christians... my post about Catholic bashing was in response to those VERY statements... Of course I consider myself a Christian... read the thread, many here would differ on that.
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:07:40 AM EDT
[#19]
If you consider my posts to be "Catholic Bashing" you need to lighten up. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:09:06 AM EDT
[#20]
It's really a shame that this discussion has to take place at all. Christians believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, died for our sins, and who ever welcomes him into their hearts and believes in him as their lord and saviour will have eternal life.
I don't care if you're a Catholic or any of the various sects of Protestantism, if you believe in this simple plan that God created for us, then you're a Christian. I was raised as a Catholic and later became a Protestant Christian. I am now a member of the Methodist Church. For years as a kid, I learned the fundamentals of Christianity as a Catholic. It was a detailed and thorough indoctrination into Christianity and into Catholic ritual and dogma. I can honestly say that I learned all the lessons as taught to me but never really felt the connection to God through Jesus Christ until years later when as an adult, I chose to accept Jesus of my own volition. Although I did this as a member of a non-denominational Christian church, I know plenty of Catholics who have the same relation with God through Jesus Christ as I do. And they came by this as Catholics. Yeah, it's true that the Catholic church has a lot of man made rules and rituals. But if they continue to teach acceptance of Jesus as the way to heaven, then they are still a Christian church. And by the way, the Pope stated within the last couple of years that man is saved by grace and not through works. This was a major departure from previous Catholic dogma, and was a courageous admission by the Pope to speak the truth even though it went against centuries of Catholic teachings. In reality it was simple acceptance of that which is written in all bibles, Catholic and Protestant alike. To really simplify this, if anyone believes that Jesus Christ died for their sins and accept him into their hearts as their lord and saviour, then they're a fellow Christian. I don't care what church they go to, or what "religion" they claim, Jesus is their faith. And Jesus is Christianity. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:11:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Just saying something is so, does not make it so! No one on this Earth has the right to declare one person a 'Christian' and another not! And that includes the Pope and the Rev. Billy Graham! Christ will know His Own. Let Him sort that out! Eric The(SimpleChristianityIsTheBestChristianity)Hun
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:11:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Yeah I take it personally when somebody says a Catholic isn't a Christian... how would you feel if I said fundamentalist Christians were no different than extremist Muslims who think their view of the world is the only acceptable one and all others will burn in hell... even if they need to be helped along the way?
Exactly who the hell are you to tell me I'm not a Christian? Does God stand in judgement of me, or do you? As far as I know only one entitity decides whether I go to heaven, and that is the Holy Father. I believe in God, I believe Christ is His Son and Savior and I believe you are incredibly narrow-minded if you don't believe Catholics are Christians. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:15:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Just wait till she makes you dance with the snakes! |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:20:30 AM EDT
[#24]
The Pope clarified what the teachings are about works. He did NOT change anthing in the Catholic dogma. Catholics have always believed that you are "saved" by believing in the Holy Trinity and He is the only one that can save you. But, if you are indeed "saved" then you will by nature do "good works". Wobblin, I would like info on your source that Catholics are not Christian. Especially since most all "Christian" religions came FROM Catholicism. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:25:49 AM EDT
[#25]
You know actually I always felt it was the military that perpetuated this. (at least in part) When I went to boot camp, sundays had two religious services. One for catholics, one for protestants. Well, so it's one for catholics, one for EVERYONE else. What kind of conclusion should one get from that? I mean at the core beliefs (i.e. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Moses, ten comandments, etc.) most if not all protestants believe the same thing Catholics do. So where do we differ? In the rituals of practicing our faith. Catholics and their "Hail Mary's" are not common amoung say Lutherans or Baptists. However, Lutherans and Baptists also differ from each other in their practice as well. Why then should there be one for Catholics and one for everyone else? No reason I can think of unless they are trying to tell me that there IS some vast difference in the core beliefs. I actually sort of resented being made to go until I realized that the all the protestants were in the same service and I got to witness a few of the things each different one did. So it was sort of educational from an intellectual point of view even if it wasn't so much from a religious point of view. Me personally, I'm agnostic. I believe in God and The Bible, but I don't particularly enjoy someone else (pastor, priest, father, etc.) telling me HOW to interpret the bible. I'm an intelligent person that can read. I'll figure it out for myself. I don't attend any church (anymore) because I can communicate with God just as easily from my home as I could by going to a church. Those of you that do all those things, good for you. That is how you choose to practice your faith and I have nothing bad to say about that. I just don't choose that way. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:27:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Perhaps, just for the sake of making a scene, you conveniently omitted the parts where I said the following:
Or:
If you are looking a religious fight, you will get none from me, my internet friend. I have couched my posts to make it clear that my opinions are just that. I could be wrong. But if that's not good enough for you, perhaps all is not lost, as your indignation would make the Fundamentalist Muslims envious.
I also said I believed there were saved Catholics, too. Somehow you failed to see the significance of that statement. Once again, you need to chill. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:29:04 AM EDT
[#27]
I more or less posted it already. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:32:47 AM EDT
[#28]
I though Catholicism came from Christianity. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:34:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Another reason, at least in this area, is the homogenous nature of some areas. It's almost all baptist. Sure you've got some others, but the raw number of followers is so low as to be trivial. The different baptist chruches bust eachothers chops over the most microscopic details. Next thing you know, they step out of this myopic environment, and see the practices of catholics. People who are used to arguing over the color of robes are appalled by the differences. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:36:17 AM EDT
[#30]
I believe that the Sarge would beg to differ with you! Of course, the Sarge is begging the difference with the remainder of non-Roman Christianity! Tell it to the Greek Orthodox folks! The Chaldeans! The Anabaptists! The Aramaians! The Syrians! Or anyone else who knows better! Eric The(ChristianityIsChristianity,NoMatterWhatWeSay)Hun
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:37:06 AM EDT
[#31]
Your opinion is your belief... or do you advocate opinions you don't hold to be true? Your opinion is ignorant, plain and simple. And no, that does not make you ignorant in general... I am speaking to this and THIS issue only. Lord knows I'm ignorant on many issues, none of us escape that as we are all imperfect.
So how exactly is a Catholic saved if you don't consider them Christian? Seriously, I am confused. I'm not beating this drum to cause controversy... I really want to know how you can be a Catholic (which you don't believe is a Christian) and still be saved? I'm at a loss and I want to know. What allows you to be saved if not an acceptance of Christ as the Savior? And, if I accept Christ as my savior... does that not make me a Christian? Any clarity you can provide would be greatly appreciated. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:39:36 AM EDT
[#32]
"Peter, you are the rock upon which My Church is built..." Peter, the first Pope. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:40:02 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:41:01 AM EDT
[#34]
Folks around here say such stupid things all the time, don't you know? I just consider the source and move on...after a plethora of posts attacking their intelligence and good common sense!
I've said nothing of the sort.
I would believe that, as well. So what's your beef? That others are saying differently? Eric The('BigDeal!')Hun
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:41:46 AM EDT
[#35]
It does, but Christianity is not a denomination of a larger faith. Christianity encompases all religions that are based on the Holy Trinity, such as Catholics, Prodestants, Methodists, etc. The Prodestant Movement which includes the other religions came from and out of Catholisim. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:44:01 AM EDT
[#36]
I agree with Eric the Heretic....I mean Hun. Sorry, Eric, I could resist the temptation. Well, actually I could, but I chose not to.
I was raised Roman Catholic, but spent most of the past 30 years attending Protestant churches. Religion is an issue. The larger issue is the basic way people think. Insecure people are troubled by the beliefs of others. The only exception of this is religion. If a person is a born-again, Spirit-filled follower of Jesus, they want others to be the same. Religion aside, some people can't stand people who confidently hold opposing views on anything. If the chickie is of that mind, no one will be able to stay married to her. The ideal woman should: 1. be confident in her beliefs and unthreatened by others, 2. be directed by a strong moral compass, 3. be comfortable around people who are "different", 4. accept responsibility for her decisions, especially when things go wrong, and 5. know in the very heart of her mind and soul that everyone has free will, that no adult is forced to do anything, and that she has no right to blame others for her choices If they don't fit that bill, the relationship is doomed, DOOMED! |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:45:48 AM EDT
[#37]
"Christian" is a label. "Catholic" is a label. I believe it is possible to be a Christian and NOT be saved. Someone can use the label "Christian" and wind up in hell. Someone can use the label "Catholic" and wind up in heaven. I believe this is so because it is not man making the judgement based on outward appearances, but God looking upon the heart. If all He sees is Jesus' sacrifice, that soul is heaven-bound, regardless of the label that person used while living.
This is my opinion. I have been consistent with it. I could be wrong about certain details but not about the part where God is the one making the decision whether the soul enters glory for eternity. I hope you see where it is I am coming from. If you still do not, I cannot explain it any more clearly. On the edit, I have to add this: If you were to ask 100 Catholics what their religion or faith was, how would they respond? "Christian" ....or "Catholic?" I think alot of the issues of difference or separation are generated from Catholics themselves because they see themselves as "Catholic" more than "Christian." Again, we're talking labels. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:47:14 AM EDT
[#38]
Unfortunately, there are many Catholics out there who do not truly understand this central Christian theme. Many believe that by merely being a Catholic, trying to live a good life, and by being kind to others/helping others, that they will receive salvation. I hear this from Catholics all the time. Still, I'm not bashing Catholicism for this, I'm merely pointing out that the Catholic church does teach salvation and not just good works. Perhaps I should have worded it differently, but I believe that the Pope's statement shifted the focus back where it belonged. Prior to the Pope making his clarification, good works was more of the central message with salvation being more of an accepted given that didn't require as much mention. I think the Pope made salvation more the central issue, as it should be. Again, I don't wish to argue about the details, but rather to illustrate Christianity's central message as taught in all Christian churches - salvation through Jesus Christ. Edited to add: Here's a good site that clarifies Catholicism's viewpoint on the salvation issue. davidmacd.com/catholic/born_again_catholics.htm#Are%20Catholics%20Born%20Again |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:49:14 AM EDT
[#39]
We agree.
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:50:41 AM EDT
[#40]
My friend, I think we're more or less on the same page... He is the only one who really matters in the end... we are just here in service to Him. Thanks for the clarification. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:50:43 AM EDT
[#41]
Post from HiramRanger:
St. Peter had just spoken his personal belief in Jesus as the Son of God, and that 'little rock' was one of the founding stones in the foundation for the Church of Christ. Not St. Peter, for he was merely a servant in the Church of Christ! The Church of Christ was built upon Jesus and upon NO OTHER! He is, was, and will always be the ROCK upon which His Church is built! See the Old Testament for verification that He was the cornerstone of His Church! Period!
It is clear that the others in Early Christianity never gave St. Peter any higher position in the Early Church than any other Apostle. Indeed, if there was a 'first Pope' in Christendom, it would have been St. James, the Brother of the Lord, who was the leader in the Church at Jerusalem, and to whom ALL the Apostles sought direction at the very first Council of Jerusalem in approx. 50 AD. Had St. Peter been the 'leader' of the Church, why wasn't his word considered the 'Word of God' in the matter? By the way, St. Peter was on the losing side of the argument of whether new Christian converts were to undergo the Jewish ritual of circumscision and to continue keeping the Law of Moses! Now, if he were the 'first Pope' why wasn't his word on the subject final? We don't even have any evidence that St. Peter ever even made it to Rome, much less that he was a bishop of the Church there, at all. Isn't is surely strange that St. Paul, writing from his prison in Rome, and who mentioned the leading Christians of that Church in Rome, never once mentioned that St. Peter was there with him in Rome? What an oversight on St. Paul's part, eh? Eric The(HistoricalChristianityIsWhatIt'sAllAbout)Hun
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:51:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Whoa! what version did you find THAT in?! The Bible says "this rock" referring back to Christ who was the subject of the ENTIRE chapter, not Peter, of whom Jesus said "get thee behind me Satan", who was married, and never went to Rome. Oh, BTW the Catholic church was the birth of Cesar proclaiming himself head of the formerly Christian church. Planerench out. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:56:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Its not possible to BE a Christian and not be saved. Once you are saved and as long as you follow God's Word, you are going to Heaven. True Christians are forgiven.  Yes, someone can use any label they want, but unless thery truly believe, they are not.On your edit: Thats is probably true, but doesn't make someone more or less of a Christian. Does it?? |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:57:21 AM EDT
[#44]
MAT 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
KJV online - http://www.online-bible.org/ |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:59:00 AM EDT
[#45]
umm there also isn't any evidence Paul was there either. Both are issues that are decided on faith. How did you decide to believe Paul was there and not Peter? I'm not trying to spark an argument, I'm wondering if you have information that I am not aware of in regards to Peter and Paul. p.s. to answer your question the letters of Paul (if they were written by Paul in the first place) were written to an audience with a specific message in mind. The fact that he left things out isn't evidience they didn't exist. The same logic is used by the people who believe Jesus was not a historical person. There are many things Paul left out of his writings, but to draw anything from that you have to 1) believe Paul wrote them (up for question) 2) believe Paul tried to put everything into his letters and that we have every correspondence he wrote I think your logic is just as questionable as the mythicists in this case. I'm not a Christian yet I believe Jesus existed and that both Peter and Paul made it to Rome. I find it curious that a Christian would argue that any saint didn't do the things the bible tells us he did. Doesn't that open up the question for anything in the bible being factual? |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:59:27 AM EDT
[#46]
"And you," he said to them, "who do you say that I am?" "You are the Messiah," Simon Peter answered, "the Son of the living God!" Jesus replied, "Blest are you, Simon son of Jonah! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are 'Rock,' and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declared loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Then he strictly ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Matthew 16: 15-20; The New American Bible, 1971 |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:00:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3 NKJ
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:01:58 AM EDT
[#48]
So in other words you are saying that nobody, in the history of man since Christ's resurrection, has ever called himself a Christian when he was not? |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:08:36 AM EDT
[#49]
If you reread what he said he's agreeing with you. You may claim to be a Christian and not be saved. If you actually are a Christian then you are saved. If I were to claim to be a Christian it would be a lie, therefore I would not be saved. Were I actually to have a change in belief and accept Christ as my saviour in my hear, then I would be saved. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:08:59 AM EDT
[#50]
No he is simply saying that if they were ACTUALLY a Christian then they must be saved. If on the other hand they are PRETENDING to be a Christian, then they are not truely a Christian and therefore are not saved. |
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