Quoted:    I carry a Glock 19, with a Galco IWB  NSAII holster. Loaded with Winchester Ranger +P+.   Cost alot less than a 1911 and just as efective.

I have been waiting all night for a post like yours just so I could say:

Get that Tupperware back in the kitchen and get yerself a MANS gun!

On a more serious note... I dont think so



There is no replacement for displacement.

Ouch....

MT

   I have a Kimber and the Glock is what I'm comfortable with.

  I carry what works best for me.


   If you were shot by a 9mm Winchester Ranger +P+. I'm sure you wouldn't be laughing to hard.

  Mans gun.   Sounds like one of those small penis man, macho trips.

 

Quoted:    I have a Kimber and the Glock is what I'm comfortable with.   I carry what works best for me.    If you were shot by a 9mm Winchester Ranger +P+. I'm sure you wouldn't be laughing to hard.   Mans gun.   Sounds like one of those small penis man, macho trips.

No, I would be insulted and beg for a kill shot.

Lighten up bro. I am glad that you have found something that works for you. FYI the only pistol I presently own is a 9mm.

  I had to be this way with all the 1911 die hards.  They always come in and slam Glock. And how all Glocks Kaboom.



    No pun intended. Just wanted to raise a few 1911 feathers.

  Most of them act like liberals when it comes to 9mm vs .45acp

Quoted:   I had to be this way with all the 1911 die hards.  They always come in and slam Glock. And how all Glocks Kaboom.     No pun intended. Just wanted to raise a few 1911 feathers.   Most of them act like liberals when it comes to 9mm vs .45acp

But...you have to admit. This is clearly a 1911 thread. You are the one guilty of stirring the pot THIS time.

If you don't like the look of the Kimber CDPs, you might want to check out the Tactical Pro:


I have two Kimbers and they have been great.  My friend has the Tactical Custom and I like it a lot. I've looked at Springfields but they don't feel as good in the hand to me, grip is a bit brick like and the front strap checkering isn't as smooth.  But it is basically a Ford/Chevy thing.  You will be pretty well served by either.  That said, I don't think I'll buy anything but a Kimber unless I get some Ed Brown dough at some point.

Hows the external extractor on that Kimber Tactical Custom? I have read mixed reviews.

BTT for the morning crew.

Quoted: Quoted: I love my Springfield Loaded Stainless Champion.  I carry it at the 4 o'clock position, just like in your picture.  It is perfect for me.  I love the Champion model more each time I shoot it. This is the model that has my interest right now but alot of people keep yelling "Get a Kimber!" and I am trying to avoid any costly mistakes. I would like to hear more details about your Champion (Loaded) if you wouldnt mind sharing. I wish it had a checkered front strap but I could aways get that done I guess. What ammo does yours like? How is the reliability and accuracy? How long have you had it? Please share. Thanx- Nugz

Sorry for taking so long to get back.
Here is my champion.

It is only about 1 1/2 years old.  I have added slim grips, that I absolutely love, and have had Springfield add 25lpi machine checkering to the frontstrap.  I was a little unsure on the size of checkering.  I knew that most used 30lpi on custom guns, but that was much more expensive, and many people had said 20 was too coarse.  The 25 lpi are perfect.  I would not have them any other way.  I don't care how "cool" 30lpi are, or if that is what all the custom makers recommend, 25 lpi is perfect!  Other than those mods, it is as it came.  

It has digested every type of ammo I have fed it yet.  I carry 230gr Speer Gold Dots.  I have also tried Hydra-shocks, Golden-Sabers, and Win white box.  It did fine with all.  I just like the Gold Dot.

It's accuracy is better than I can hold.  I tend to shoot left with it after a few rounds, but that is my grip, not the gun's fault.  I love the night sights.  The amidextrious safety, I could probably do with out, because of hang ups with my clothing, but it really isn't all that bad.

Here is a picture of the checkering on the front strap of my Champion.  


I feel that it helps produce a correct grip, helping me maintain pressure on the front strap and rear of the frame, as opposed to the sides.  The flattened grips were purchased from Brownells, and do a nice job of thinning the size of the frame and keeping my shirts from snagging on the coarse checkered factory grips.

I talked about what I liked about the Champion, now what i don't like.  It may just be 1911's, but compared to my 92FS, it is a bitch to take down.  I don't like the full length guide rod, or even the bull-bushingless barrel, but I understand that they are there for reliability and accuracy...I guess.

The guide rod is just ugly.

Last item I forgot.  It doesn't always lock the slide back with Wilson 47Ds.  I have to see if another 8rd mag will be more reliable.  It does fine with the cheap factory 7rd mags that came with it.

Those are my gripes.  Not many, and accuracy and reliability are not a part of them.  

I use a Don Hume PPCH--strong side-in-the-pants-holster.  I like his products, and they are reasonably priced for a teacher's salary.

Guns, the checkering looks great! Ditto for the grip panels. The narrow panels work well for folks with small hands.

Are you using the take down tool? It's basically a piece of small diameter wire with a 90 deg bend that captivates the recoil spring before takedown. Makes life with short barrel 1911's much easier.

Those Champions look very nice...I have yet to try one. =(

MT

Kimber CDP

I have it.

It rocks.

SG

I like colts myself. very few MIM parts, none that are critical.

I think Kimbers are ugly, and they have lots of MIM parts that have been known to fail (extractors,barrel bushings, firing pin retainers, hammers), and they also failed at least one Dept. of Justice trial due to functional failures.

I don't like SA because they are a little chunkier and made in Brazil.

IMHO, YMMV, etc..

Here's a brand new choice for you - and it's a new model Colt, via The Gunsite (Cooper's Original Training Facility) Gunsmithy - The Gunsite CCO.

Colt and Gunsite are apparently bringing out a new, updated CCO (Concealed Carry Officer's Model) using a Commander slide and a Defender/Officer's grip frame.  Light, accurate, more reliable than most 3" guns and easier to shoot well.  It should come with the thin grips installed, Novaks, Series 70, (?) etc.  Contact Gunsite for more - sounds perfect for your needs.

Warmly, Col. Colt

never mind

Quoted: I like colts myself. very few MIM parts, none that are critical. I think Kimbers are ugly, and they have lots of MIM parts that have been known to fail, and they also failed at least one Dept. of Justice trial due to functional failures. I don't like SA because they are a little chunkier and made in Brazil. IMHO, YMMV, etc..

They all use MIM. Please quote specifics of MIM parts failure. I talked with the guys at Rangemaster during a weekend defensive pistol course about Kimber parts failure. The general consensus was that it's a nonissue. One guy had something like 40K rounds thru his before anything broke. Since most guns now have MIM parts, if it bothers you, figure in a replacement hammer, sear and slide stop to the cost of a particular weapon before you buy. The money would be better spent on ammo though...

I've personally seen failed MIM barrel bushings, a hammer with a firing pin impression, and firing pin stop with a hammer impression, and several broken extractors from Kimber.

Colt uses MIM safety and sear. No high stress parts. I would absolutely swap the extractor though, and probably the other MIM stuff as well.

I have a SA 1911A1 and have had zero problems with it, it only set me back $425, but personally I think if I were going to carry a .45 95% of the time I'd go with a Sig P220. DA/SA action.

I shot one recently and I thought until then the only other pistol I'd be adding to my handgun collection was a Python.

NOT anymore.

everyone has their personal preferences... you get what you pay for, so buy the best you can afford... that "bargain" gun may not be such a bargain once you plunk down cash for upgrades...

example:  i bought a used kimber classic series I (no annoying KALI safety features) for $700... came with about $100 worth of leather and two wilson mags... i was thinking that was a smoking deal at the time... only problem was the gun turned out to be a petulant range queen... wouldnt consistantly feed rounds... to get the gun where i wanted it (and where it needed to be) i did the following to it:

replaced cheap ass plastic mainspring housing with metal wilson combat speed chute: $80...

tried a bunch of different recoil springs from wilson in an attempt to rectify the feeding problem: $25 plus shipping...

tried wilson shok buffs, which may or may not change the way your slide release operates: $6 plus shipping...

stronger 22# recoil spring broke the flange off the barrel bushing and launched the recoil spring and recoil spring plug downrange... never did locate either of them... new wilson barrel bushing and fitting the bushing $35...

new dual spring full length guide rod, recoil spring, and plug (now i dont need all those other recoil springs or the shock buffs): $60...

new davidson grips: $60...

new xs bigdot 24/7 sights: $120...

six more 8 rnd wilson mags: $150...

radiusing the transition from feed ramp to chamber and mirror polishing the ramp and chamber: $0...

total additional cost so far to get this pistol to run reliably: $536... and i still need a new trigger and a light mount!

still less expensive than a wilson, but its been a major pain in the ass and a lot of time and experimentation getting to this point... pistol used to jam up at least once every 100 rnds or so... hasnt had a hiccup since the ramp mod and polish...

on the upside, ive learned a great deal about the 1911... on the minus side, a carry gun must go boom EVERY time you squeeze that trigger, and my kimbers past behavior could hardly be considered "confidence inspiring"...  

any mass produced 1911, be it kimber, springfield, cold, daly, etc can be prone to this sort of behavior...

my advice? if youre going to buy one of the mass produced guns, take it to the range and WRING THAT BITCH OUT with all sorts of different ammo... and use high quality magazines (im partial to wilsons, but there are other excellent mfgs out there)... if you have the cash to throw down you cant go wrong with a wilson or a baer...

Quoted: I've personally seen failed MIM barrel bushings, a hammer with a firing pin impression, and firing pin stop with a hammer impression, and several broken extractors from Kimber. Colt uses MIM safety and sear. No high stress parts. I would absolutely swap the extractor though, and probably the other MIM stuff as well.

Your experience is the opposite of mine. I've seen alot of guns with MIM parts at the range and various matches over the past 7 or so years with no failures that could be blamed on MIM. I have seen tool steel slidestops break in improperly set up 40 S&W 1911's. There again, if it's a concern to the gun's owner, a hundred dollars or so (plus gunsmithing) should take care of it.

guns-

Thankyou for all your help. I really appreciate the first hand info on the SA Champion. Nice checkering! That 25 lpi looks REALLY nice to me. How much did Springfield charge you for the that checkering job?

- Nugz

I am a Kimber person to the core now.  My Springfield experience wasn't bad, just a little disappointing.  I had a V-10 Ultra Compact that I could barely hit the broad side of a barn with.  This was a time when I was shooting a variety of small handguns, and was connecting with most of them. Fast forward 7 years.  I got a Kimber CUstom Target Stainless II.  I really wanted a series 1, but wasn't going to wait forever to find one.  The Kimber has been FANTASTIC.  Awesome reliability, awesome accuracy.  Granted, you probably do not want a target sight on a carry gun.  The more recent Springfields seem to be better made/fitted than my old one (an early V-10).  The Series II is not a problem to me, and the trigger pull is JUST FINE.  

Were I buying a 1911 carry gun (and I may buy one some day) I would probably look for a commander sized gun, from Kimber preferable, but maybe the new Smith 1911sc.  

That said, I have come close to jumping on a couple SPringfields because the deals were just SOOO good.

shooter

Kimber. I don't carry mine (you ruled out Paras, and that's my carry choice) because it's a full size Gold Match. It's stone reliable and more accurate than I am at any range I've tested it at.

Feed it good ammo and -my SOP with any new 1911- replace the extractor with a Wilson.

I don't think you would go wrong with a Kimber. Worse case if you get one that slipped through QC? You sell it and buy something else. Yes it's a pain... but someone will buy it.

Kimber Tactical Ultra II is a Compact / Officers sized model.



Sofar (range limitations) It's accurate to 25 yards.

Now the details are starting to come in. Thanks alot guys! Keep those details coming, I am learning alot from your personal experiences. Much appreciated!

Oh yeah...
Pardon my ignorance but what are "MIM parts"? Made in Mexico? You guys lost me with that one. I am assuming you guys are talking about Metal Injection Molded parts. Is my assumption correct?

- Nugz

A wise man told me to test MY pistol with MY ammo for reliability.  Buy a bunch of defensive ammo that you's intend to you use in YOUR pistol.  Shoot it.  I'm talking about hundreds of rounds.  It will ensure YOUR pistol digests teh ammo.  It will ensure all YOUR magazines feed reliably.  It will teach you where the point of impact is for YOUR pistol.  It will make your new pistol YOURS (you will be training while you are doing this shooting).

MIM=metal injected molding.

All I'm saying is know what parts are going in your gun. I wouldn't buy a $1000 1911 full of questionable parts when I can buy a $500 gun and then upgrade all the questionable parts to unquestionable parts

Get a Smith and Wesson scandium commander. They have a lot better customer service and better quality control Vs. Kimber. (Yes I own both as well as Colt) And the Milt Sparks VMII is awesome.
Reasons to go S&W over Kimber:
S&W quality control is better
S&W customer service is better
S&W will pay for shipping both ways for a repair (if needed)
S&W uses a real bushing and does not need a paper clip to break down
S&W uses name brand parts for their pistols and not knock offs.
S&W uses better mags
S&W gives two mags with each pistol
S&W does not come standard with NS so you can choose your own

Quoted: Are you using the take down tool? It's basically a piece of small diameter wire with a 90 deg bend that captivates the recoil spring before takedown. Makes life with short barrel 1911's much easier.

Yup.  Have you ever taken down a 92FS?  You would understand my comparison.  Just getting the damn link hole lined up, when putting the thing back together is a pain.  I usually resort to sticking a Q-tip in the hole to line them up.

Quoted: guns- How much did Springfield charge you for the that checkering job? - Nugz

I believe $80.00.  I think that is right.  I think the 30lpi was 130.00, but I can't remember for sure.  Like I said, the 25 turned out to be perfect for me.

Quoted: Get a Smith and Wesson scandium commander. They have a lot better customer service and better quality control Vs. Kimber. (Yes I own both as well as Colt) And the Milt Sparks VMII is awesome. Reasons to go S&W over Kimber: S&W quality control is better I have never needed to have either woked on. S&W customer service is better If you never need the CS you won't be able to tell the difference. S&W will pay for shipping both ways for a repair (if needed) See above. S&W uses a real bushing and does not need a paper clip to break down Well you got one. S&W uses name brand parts for their pistols and not knock offs. Last report I saw on S&W parts is that they were buying them from Kimber. S&W uses better mags I only use Wilson #47D's period. S&W gives two mags with each pistol See above. S&W does not come standard with NS so you can choose your own Well that makes 2! But that would only mean something if you didn't like the Mepro's...which I do.

I don't own any Colt's (I would if it was a series 70!) but I do own several S&W's and a couple Kimber's. The only problem with any of them was the S&W 4506 and it had a magazine recall. S&W sent me 2 for the one...but that was 18 years ago.

Kimber is a great supporter of the shooting community and that is another reason to think about Kimber.

BigDozer66

Anyone have an opinion on the external extractor used in some of the Kimbers? Are these more reliable than the internal type?

Quoted: Anyone have an opinion on the external extractor used in some of the Kimbers? Are these more reliable than the internal type?

Fad.  

Of course I am not a 1911 expert, but it hasn't needed one for almost 100yrs; why start now?

Quoted: Quoted: Anyone have an opinion on the external extractor used in some of the Kimbers? Are these more reliable than the internal type? Fad.   Of course I am not a 1911 expert, but it hasn't needed one for almost 100yrs; why start now?

That was pretty much my thought on the matter but Im no expert either.