Quoted: Prices have to stay high in order for us to maintain a solid track record with NFA items. CHEAP NFA items will result in their appearance in crime over time. RIght now, NFA items are treated like children... safe queens for a lot of them. - BG

Never been to Knob Creek, Camden, Bullet Fest, or any of the other big shoots have you. These guns get more trigger time in a weekend than most other civilian guns get in a lifetime. The day I got my first MG I mistakenly took 1000 rounds to the range thinking it would be enough. Wrong! Most NFA guys are definately shooters.

The 1934 NFA is also responsible for regulator noise suppressors...

Every year thousands of gun owners and hunters suffer permanent loss in hearing because of their inability to obtain a noise suppressor (its really just a muffler) for their firearms.
Noise Suppressors do NOT make a firearm silent. They just decrease the noise of a firearm down to about the same strength as an M80 firecracker.

The 1934 NFA also regulates short barreled rifles and sawed off shotguns. In spite of its intention to prevent criminals from obtaining a short barreled rifle or sawed off shotgun..this law has yet to prevent criminals from simply taking a hacksaw and sawing off the end of a barrel.

The 1934 NFA regulates machine guns: In spite of Hollywood reality demonstrates that Semi Automatic Fire is more effective than fully auto, due to muzzle climb. During Full Auto, most rounds miss their intended target. Resulting in a criminal running out of ammunition faster.

Logically this law is pretty ineffective at preventing a determined criminal from manufacturing noise suppressors (all components are readily available at any hardware store) or from preventing a criminal from using a hack saw on his rifle or shotgun.

Similarly a criminal, if he is really determined, can illegally convert certain semi automatic firearms or illegally manufacture or buy them.

The only real effect of the 1934 NFA is to control law abiding gun owners.

3 pages into this thread I'm not gonna go back and read every post but, if someone asked ME why I'd scratch 'em I'd say because for ONE, they ain't 'Protecting anyone from anything" (That'd be for the soccer Moms) and TWO, they both just "sorta" take a SH*T on the whole concept of the second Amendment.

That's just me though and I'M knucle-dragger

No, I mean really, who decided that a LL or DIAS is a machine gun? The ATF. Fix that, and we have MGs.

Quoted: No, I mean really, who decided that a LL or DIAS is a machine gun? The ATF. Fix that, and we have MGs.

That solves nothing. Just because a mg is made with a DIAS or LL, it still needs to be registered.

It used to be that DIAS were just considered parts. They were used to create registered mgs without having to drill the receiver. Then the ATF changed their mind and ruled that the DIAS itself is the mg.  The ones created before the ban were grandfathered, and so are still sold in Shotgun News. Although their only use is as a paperweight or as spare parts for a registered receiver that was made with a unregistered DIAS.

Quoted: Also we need to look at the tax angle.  There are court rulings that taxes that are purely prohibitive, rather than designed to obtain revenue, are illegal.  That so few Class III weapons change hands, and the taxes generated hardly justify the government keeping up with it, shows that NFA tax system is simply a scheme to register, track, and prohibit ownership. That was the purpose from the beginning.  At the time the NFA was being written it was admitted that they could not simply ban guns, the 2nd Amendment got in the way, but they could tax and regulate to get around the 2nd.  As usual, politicians and lawyers playing word games with our rights. So, if post 86 machine guns cannot be taxed, why does Treasury Department have ANY jurisdiction over them at all?  It has to be more than, "cause we said so." We need to turn Kerry's "Hunter's Rights" BS on its head, and insist We the People have Self Defense Rights, and thus, a right to own weapons suited to defense.

Post-86 guns cannot be taxed and you cannot be prosecuted for not paying NFA tax....

But 922(o) - the MG ban - has it's own penalty for violation, which is 10yrs in fed prison...

Quoted: Post-86 guns cannot be taxed and you cannot be prosecuted for not paying NFA tax.... But 922(o) - the MG ban - has it's own penalty for violation, which is 10yrs in fed prison...

No, it doesn't have it own penalty. The penalty is for having an unregistered mg.  922(o)  bans  transfer or ownership of an mg except for "any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes effect", but since the authority for these laws is the commerce clause, how can they charge a tax that you cannot pay?

Quoted: Uh, because ALL gun control laws are un-Constitutional...

+1



Let me also add to this the following:

THE POWERS OF THE SWORD ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE YEOMANRY OF AMERICA FROM SIXTEEN TO SIXTY. [82]  The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? are they not ourselves. Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. What clause in the state or federal constitution hath given away that important right.... T he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the foederal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.

Quoted: * In the Lewis decision, the Supreme Court stated, "the Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia'". SO ACCORDING TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, MILITARY-STYLE FIREARMS (LIKE MACHINE GUNS) ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF FIREARMS THAT ARE PROTECTED BY THE 2ND AMENDMENT.

And double-barrel Fuddguns are NOT!!  

Quoted: Quoted: Post-86 guns cannot be taxed and you cannot be prosecuted for not paying NFA tax.... But 922(o) - the MG ban - has it's own penalty for violation, which is 10yrs in fed prison... No, it doesn't have it own penalty. The penalty is for having an unregistered mg.  922(o)  bans  transfer or ownership of an mg except for "any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes effect", but since the authority for these laws is the commerce clause, how can they charge a tax that you cannot pay?

No dave is right on this. They can no longer prosecute you for failing to register, or pay the NFA tax as the .gov will no longer accept the registration or tax payment making that part of the NFA no longr valid and enforceable as it is no longer a revinue generating measure.

UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff, v. ROCK ISLAND ARMORY, INC., and David R. Reese, Defendants. No. 90-40025. United States District Court, C.D. Illinois. June 7, 1991. As applied to machineguns alleged to be possessed after May 19, 1986, prosecutions may no longer proceed under 26 U.S.C. § 5861. This is because the National Firearms Act is part of the Internal Revenue Code, and its provisions — including registration of machineguns possessed after May 19, 1986 — are valid only to the extent they aid in the collection of tax revenue. Since BATF would not register and accept tax payments for any machinegun after May 19, 1986, registration of machineguns made and possessed after that date no longer serves any revenue purpose, and such registration requirements are invalid. Since 18 U.S.C. § 922(o) is interpreted to ban registration and taxation of machineguns under the National Firearms Act, § 922(o) effectively repeals such registration and taxation provisions. Congress has no enumerated power to require registration of firearms. However, since registration of firearms may assist in the collection of revenue, Congress passed the National Firearms Act in 1934 pursuant to its power to tax. Section 922(o) destroys the constitutional basis of registration.

And as far as I know this is still good.

Edited to add this which is the last part of the above decision

In sum, since enactment of 18 U.S.C. § 922(o), the Secretary has refused to accept any tax payments to make or transfer a machinegun made after May 19, 1986, to approve any such making or transfer, or to register any such machinegun. As applied to machineguns made and possessed after May 19, 1986, the registration and other requirements of the National Firearms Act, Chapter 53 of the Internal Revenue Code, no longer serve any revenue purpose, and are impliedly repealed or are unconstitutional. Accordingly, Counts 1(a) and (b), 2, and 3 of the superseding indictment are DISMISSED.

Edited to add again: So 922(0) is nothing more than a flat out ban.