What I know of the Koran has come from converted Muslims who were not serfs but a medical doctor and college professor.

Islam IS the enemy. Not all Muslims individually but the fixture of Islam belief. Beat it down far enough and there will be peace. Check the history of the period 1800-1900. The west had little trouble with the middle east.

The 10% of Islam described as radical and proactive corresponds nicely to the percentage of a society able to go to war acording to Sun Tzu. It takes something like 90 people to send 10 to battle.

We will learn our lesson eventually, the same lesson the Serbs learned but not before they reduce us to their level because we would not expell them when we could with overwhelming force. Planerench out.

Quoted: What I know of the Koran has come from converted Muslims who were not serfs but a medical doctor and college professor. Islam IS the enemy. Not all Muslims individually but the fixture of Islam belief. Beat it down far enough and there will be peace. Check the history of the period 1800-1900. The west had little trouble with the middle east. The 10% of Islam described as radical and proactive corresponds nicely to the percentage of a society able to go to war acording to Sun Tzu. It takes something like 90 people to send 10 to battle. We will learn our lesson eventually, the same lesson the Serbs learned but not before they reduce us to their level because we would not expell them when we could with overwhelming force. Planerench out.

Do you think the UN will expell us from our country too?  Why oh why did Clinton choose the wrong side in the Serbian conflict???

Quoted: RITUAL, check your IM ASAP. this is the LAST warning. Next offense i am asking for an account lock. mike

So who has the power to ban someone? How many of them are there? What are the differences in authority between moderators, site staff and whomever else has any authority?

Quoted: Quoted: You guys do realize that not all members of all religeons adhere to their holy book as strictly as others... How many Christians on this board have ever had sex with someone who wasn't your spouse at the time of the act? How many Jews practice animal sacrifice, or punish disobedient sons with stoning? The fact is, weather you like it or not, most Muslims ARE non-violent. Makes it a little harder to villify the entire religeon for the actions of a few lunatics... While they're rather misguided as to who to worship, that is as far as it goes... God will judge them foir that, as it is an offense against Him, not us. As for the ones who are TERRORISTS or LEADERS WHO SUPPORT TERROR, well, those guys need to die - but only them, not the rest... Also note that the bible does say that you would be forgiven if you do not follow every little hting in the bible. The koran does not.  And any idiot who knows anything about the koran and the middle east,  is that your likely to get throwin in prison or raped or shot if you break one of their holy traditions. Again another know nothing american.

1) There is no 'mercy' clause in the Law of Moses. That is the stark contrast between Jews & Christians. Salvation by faith not works is a specifically Christian doctrine. Paul's letters (eg the bulk of the NT) go into this in great detail from the Christian perspective.

So technically, you are wrong. The book commands, and the Jews no longer do. That is the extent of my familiarity with Judaisim, so I will not take this any further as to what rationale they have for abandoning these specific requirements. I would guess they claim it only applied to the ancient nation of Israel.

2) The point (which you missed completely) was that even if the Koran said what you claim (which, as DK has pointed out, it does not), most people who follow a religeon do so 'losely' at best.

In the same way that many who call themselves Christians ignore the command to avoid sexual immorality, and conveniently skip over various parts of the Bible that they feel are inconvenient to observe. It's no different for Muslims, as evidenced by the sales of beer & return of prostitution in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. If all Muslims followed the Q'oran exclusively, there woud be no customers for those industries.

Islam is a very very works-based religeon, on a level comparable to biblical-era Pharasaic Judaisim... But the fact is you have bought the same distortions that the followers of Al Queda have...

Very entertaining to see Americans (I assume) fall for the enemey's propaganda in reverse...

The fact is that Islam has been on this earth for quite a while now.  And up untill the 50s there was no Islamic terrorisim of any kind. Further, there was no international Islamic terrorisim untill the late 70s/early 80s (it was all focused on Israel). And I don't count imperial expansion of Islamic nations as 'terrorisim', any more than I count the founding & growth of any other historical empire as a 'terrorist' act...

They seem to be quite capable of living in relative peace with the rest of the world, prior to a series of events that introduced the current brand of radicalisim which we are currently moving to correct.

Further, there are plenty of Muslims engaged in fighting this war on our side, both our own troops and those loyal to us in Iraq & Afganhistan. I suppose they all want to 'kill all the infidels' too? Well, why are they killing OUR enemies instead then (oh, and ONE stupid grenade fragger and ONE spy do not speak for the entire military/defense establishment)?

Why do I bother with this? No, I'm not a Muslim, nor do I believe there is anything valid in Islam. I believe it's as 'wrong' as any non-Christian religeon, eg completely. And Ritual, that IS written in the Bible, just in case you're going to make up/misconstrue the Holy Book of MY religeon too...

However, that does not justify any of what is routinely advocated when the subject comes up. Certain members here are ready to lynch an entire religeon over the actions of it's fanatics... Well, guess what? You don't win wars in a blind rage, especially when your blind rage leads to over-extension... A war against a clearly defined enemy is far more winnable than a war against the world's fastest growing religeon...

Leave 'fighting' Islam to missionaries & keep our troops fighting the real threat to our nation, terrorists and their sponsor governments, not the religeon they abuse as justification...

THAT is my position... CLEAR?

HUh.

Anotehr fucking idiot.

First of all the Muslim/Islam religion holds nor egard for females. Prostitution and rape is encouraged.  Read the goddamn fucking scriptures you fucking flower sniffing pansy.  Im talking about the Koran here.

And ass the fucking bible says anyone can convert to christianity and be welcome.    Everyone is forgiven if they wish to be forgiven.  So if someone commited aldutery,  they could goto a priest and be forgiven,  and all is well.

Smarten the fuck up man.

Dont rebuttal someone who knows how to read.  I gave the link to the Koran.  WE psoted the passages.  We posted the brief history and mentaility of the Islamic and Muslim people.  You have posted NOTHING.  

All you pieces of shit muslim sympathizers are just feeding their fire.  Do you know what chastize means?  DO you know what it means to chastize a woman?  RAPE,  TORTURE,  PISSED ON.  And that is what it says to treat women like in the Koran.

So yeah.,  fuck you beerman.  I got my fucking  ar-15 right here for you.  Fuck you Dave.  Ill see you on the battlefield.  The battlefield for when I fight for the real fucking god and morals.

You will be put to sleep like the rest of the fucking ingrateful animals.

Dont be PUSSY's.  Fuck them.  And fuck you if you want to sit there and say nothing about something that we are fighting.

Quoted: HUh. Anotehr fucking idiot. First of all the Muslim/Islam religion holds nor egard for females. Prostitution and rape is encouraged.  Read the goddamn fucking scriptures you fucking flower sniffing pansy.  Im talking about the Koran here. And ass the fucking bible says anyone can convert to christianity and be welcome.    Everyone is forgiven if they wish to be forgiven.  So if someone commited aldutery,  they could goto a priest and be forgiven,  and all is well. Smarten the fuck up man. Dont rebuttal someone who knows how to read.  I gave the link to the Koran.  WE psoted the passages.  We posted the brief history and mentaility of the Islamic and Muslim people.  You have posted NOTHING.   All you pieces of shit muslim sympathizers are just feeding their fire.  Do you know what chastize means?  DO you know what it means to chastize a woman?  RAPE,  TORTURE,  PISSED ON.  And that is what it says to treat women like in the Koran. So yeah.,  fuck you beerman.  I got my fucking AK right here for you.  Fuck you Dave.  Ill see you on the battlefield.  The battlefield for when I fight for the real fucking god and morals. You will be put to sleep like the rest of the fucking ingrateful animals.

How 'bout you say goodbye...

That post is a CoC violation on so many levels, and you have been trolling what would have otherwise been a perfectly good thread...

Not even worth responding to...

Show some respect for the guys in charge here, or you will NOT last...

Since I doubt you will, IBT(A)L

Yeah but who wants a Muslim supporting piece of shit pansy ass determining what is a TOC violation.

And what kind of pussy ass site is this when we cant even talk about the idiocies of millions of muslims all around the world without getting some fucking hick loser sticking up for them because he takes it in the ass.


Thank you ilikelegs

I would like to believe that there is a trustworthy Muslim.  However, a "former" good friend of mine (Half German/Half Tunisian with Iraqi ancestory) declared to me while working at an American Consulate in Germany that she hoped that Saddam Hussein would kick our Asses. (This was during the first Gulf War)  She very well knew that my husband was in Iraq at that time, and she was employed by the US Government.  Now how does that equal out?  I don't know - I trust them as far as I can throw them.  

Quoted: Yeah but who wants a Muslim supporting piece of shit pansy ass determining what is a TOC violation. And what kind of pussy ass site is this when we cant even talk about the idiocies of millions of muslims all around the world without getting some fucking hick loser sticking up for them because he takes it in the ass.

CoC violations:

Trolling

Personal Attacks

And your pathetic attacks aside, I have very good, logical reasons for what I say. This country is at war, and I want to see the war won. You win wars thru strategy & logical planning, not blind primal rage.

I believe that God can handle the Muslims well enough without our interferance, and it is the job of the US Government to protect us from real military threats like terrorists, not declare 'holy war' and do to the Muslims exactly what you (incorrectly) say they wish to do to us.

You are a hypocryte. That is not a personal attack or insult, it is a fact, as a hypocryte is one who says one thing and does or says the exact opposite - a flip-flopper, in present political parlance.

You (falsely) complain about Islam doing one thing, and advocate that the US (or maybe Christiantity, I don't know... If you are a Christian you're doing a swell job of representing the Image of Christ...) do the exact same thing.

Oh well, this is hopeless... I'll leave it to the mods/staff to resolve...

I think I've been plenty civil with this post, all things considered, and with respect for the rules you have ignored since you came here, I'll leave it at that.

Quoted: Quoted: <snip> Let me be clear again - THE KORAN DOES NOT COMMAND MUSLIMS TO KILL ALL NON-MUSLIMS That is ALL I am saying !!!!   Why do people have such a fucking hard time understanding that??? <snip> True, the Koran does not say in your exact words for muslims to kill non-muslims. Most people use this quote... - Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5) But this is the actual wording...source009.005 YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. SHAKIR, PICKTHAL and YUSUFALI are versions of the Koran. Much like our Old English, King James version and Revised Standard Version.

I agree with that - but when the Koran refers to idolators, I think it is a pretty specifc reference, and does not include the people of the book.  Much of the often-quoted verse 9:xx has to do with specific idolators - namely those who have broken treaties.  By no means does the Koran in that context call for the killing of all non-muslims.

Now - do wild-eyed assholes probably shamlessly USE passages like that to justify killing women and children and all kinds of other barbaric behavior?  Almost certainly, and those people need to be shot like rabid dogs     Give me a pistol and immunity, and I would GLADLY execute people like that.

And yes - Islam seems to generate a LOT more of such psychos than other religions, and that is very suspicious in itself.


Really, my only beef with any of these posts is the statement that the Koran ITSELF explicitly calls for the killing of all non-muslims.  As far as I can tell, it is simply not in there - and (as I said) I think it hurts our cause - which IS rightous - to use inaccurate "facts" to justify our case.

Ultimately, I'm just arguing a TECHNICALITY - because I'm such a damn anal guy.  I only have a copy of the Koran because I have a copy of many religious texts (like the egyptian Book of the Dead, and the Epic of Gilgamesh, and stuff like that).  I am by no means any kind of scholar - but last time these claims were posted I looked up the relavant passages, and found the claims to be inaccurate.  

I'm by no means trying to "defend" Islam (and I wish people would stop thinking I'm some kind of apologist) - I was just making a point about factual accuracy.

So in so many words, we (non believers) are the pagans or the non-believers. And yes, we are to be killed according to this verse, depending on how it’s interpreted to the muslim. Do you want to trust his interpretation? I don't. To many examples in the world today which show me how they believe. Most things in all religions are taken out of context. It’s no different with Islam. The problem is that so many muslims believe what has been taken out of context and have put forth no effort to correct their error.

I TOTALLY fucking agree with you!!  

The problem is in how people are interpreting these texts, and how all these goddamn schools in Pakistan are cranking out people with these extremist intrepretations!!

Quoted: So yeah.,  fuck you beerman.  I got my fucking  ar-15 right here for you.  Fuck you Dave.  Ill see you on the battlefield.  The battlefield for when I fight for the real fucking god and morals. You will be put to sleep like the rest of the fucking ingrateful animals.

Whoa - I just noticed that.

Was that a death threat on arfcom?  

Quoted: Quoted: So yeah.,  fuck you beerman.  I got my fucking  ar-15 right here for you.  Fuck you Dave.  Ill see you on the battlefield.  The battlefield for when I fight for the real fucking god and morals. You will be put to sleep like the rest of the fucking ingrateful animals. Whoa - I just noticed that. Was that a death threat on arfcom?

The issue has been 'dealt with'...

The Bee got 'im...

Quoted: Goodbye, ritual.

THANK YOU - ITS ABOUT TIME!!!!

The muslims I know are some of the most peaceful people I know of.

I am ALOT more voilent than them.

One of them cried because she slapped her ex bf when he manhandled her...

I don't need a verse to want them dead, I could care less if they bring me fucking flowers and candy. They can all burn in hell for all I care , whether the koran says kill us or not. Fuck those fucking fucks!!!


OOOPS, thats the religon of peace ....my bad

it's over