Free market system will eventually prevail.  If it is a good place with good service they will survive.  If not, out of business.  

automatic gratuity = personal service tax that I didn't vote on

Include it in the price.  Of course, if they did that not as many people would walk in the door.  

Obviously many of you have never had to make a living working as a server in the restaurant industry.

If you don't want to tip then don't go to a full-service restaurant.

Tipping has become too automatic in this country and when businesses automatically charge you the tip on the bill, that is just bs in my opinion. A tip is supposed to be an extra something for someone for GOOD service, it should not be assumed by anyone that a tip is to be given if the service is sub standard.

The way I tip is simple, if the service is poor, expect zero tip, if the service is mediocore, expect a mediocre tip 10-12%, if the service is stellar expcet a great tip, 15-25% is not unheard of when I get great service. I live in a town that a lot of service workers rely on tips and they are some of the whiniest bunch ever, they almost expect a tip for just doing their job.

The fact of the matter if that asshole wants to look out for his waitress who probably sucks ass, he can raiser her wage or fire her and get someone who deserves a tip. The basic price of the service is included in the price of the food in a sit down restaurant, make no mistake about that.

The original acronym for tip was:

T: to
I: insure
P: prompt
S: service

Quoted: funny,I usually tip around 20% on the bill,but the best tip I ever left was after getting bad service.Was going to leave nothing,but then I thought I would leave a huge tip and let the bitch wonder what she would have gotten if she had given good service.as usual my wife thought I was a retard,what else is new.but in my own mind I showed that lying bitch who was bossIt was St Patty day and I wanted green beer,she said they were out of green beer yet other servers were bringing out green beer for there customers.Yes I am still pissed about not having green beer.

So you rewarded bad service? It's crap like that, which lead to the expectation of a tip. Your wife is correct.

I think the poor guy in the original post is screwed. By ordering there with a party of nine he obligated himself to the terms of service, ie the 18% tip. I hate mandatory tips, but then again he didn't have to give his business to the place.

tips = T.I.P.S. = to insure prompt service


I'm not aware of any law that makes tips mandatory.  But the practice allows restaraunts the ability to get out of paying a comparable salary to its servers.

the minimum wage for tiped employees is about $2.50 an hour(though most restaurants pay the normal minimum wage). most restaurants have a policy of parties of 6 or more will have a 15-20% added to the check. it does not matter if it says gratuity or service charge. if your party does not fall under the house policy and you feel you did not recieve proper service don't tip and or talk to the manager. there is always MC DONALDS for people like mr. pink. i always enjoy seeing those $8-12 an hour secrataries come in all dressed up in clothes that cost more than they make in a week. they act like they are all important and treat the servers like shit. the best part is knowing that the servers at my restaurant make $60,000+ a year while $35,000+ of that is cash.

Quoted: the minimum wage for tiped employees is about $2.50 an hour(though most restaurants pay the normal minimum wage). most restaurants have a policy of parties of 6 or more will have a 15-20% added to the check. it does not matter if it says gratuity or service charge. if your party does not fall under the house policy and you feel you did not recieve proper service don't tip and or talk to the manager. there is always MC DONALDS for people like mr. pink. i always enjoy seeing those $8-12 an hour secrataries come in all dressed up in clothes that cost more than they make in a week. they act like they are all important and treat the servers like shit. the best part is knowing that the servers at my restaurant make $60,000+ a year while $35,000+ of that is cash.

Why do people in the restaurant business always engage in class warfare??? No one gives a shit what you, your waitresses, or the secrataries that keep your lights on make in a week, month, or year. You should be thankful those secrataries frequent your place and if they are bitches and you don't want them there, ask them to leave.

Good service= good tip
bad service= NO tip

TIP

To Insure Proper Service

If you don't get the proper service, you don't leave the tip.

I manage a major chain restaurant and we add the tip to parties of 8 or more but if the guest dosen't want to pay the tip we take it off.

Stupid New York.

Thank God for Texas.

Quoted: Obviously many of you have never had to make a living working as a server in the restaurant industry. If you don't want to tip then don't go to a full-service restaurant.

That sounds fair...
I like to go to restaurants because they take care of me, so I think that tipping is nothing but fair.hen

Quoted: Obviously many of you have never had to make a living working as a server in the restaurant industry. If you don't want to tip then don't go to a full-service restaurant.

If you want a regular salary then work in a different industry and quit your bitchin' about the one you are/were in.

Tips are optional, not a requirement. Screw up my order or deliver the food cold and you won't get one. If you're rude, like one server was, then the resturant risks losing my business for ever, like one did.

Quoted: Quoted: oh - and for those who don't know, it has been repeated many times in threads just like this - employees are guaranteed FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE ($5.15).  The $2.13/hr is what they get paid by the employer, plus tips.  They whine about only getting $2.13, yet the employer must make up the difference to FMW if they do not clear FMW with tips.  In some states, like Kalifornistan, the min wage is higher than FMW.  Also, the $2.13/hr wage only applies to time when tipping is potential- they must log their times differently when cleaning, doing inventory, etc. $2.13 + tips! National Minimum wage here in England is $8.10 + Social Security Benefits and will be $8.73 from Oct 1 ANdy

Dollars or pounds?

Quoted: Tipping is antiquated and useless.  I don't care for the practice.

+2

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: $2.13 + tips! National Minimum wage here in England is $8.10 + Social Security Benefits and will be $8.73 from Oct 1 ANdy Dollars or pounds?

Rates converted to US$ … (UK Pounds its £4.50 & £4.85)

Andy

''They shorted the check[/size-5] and didn't leave any money at all for the waitress,'' he said. ''This is not a vendetta. This is just about standing up for my waitresses.''

Yah ever notice how many dimbulbs around here rush in to add their caustic bitch and whine without reading the an/or comprehending the discussion

Shorted the check is theft of services and/or defrauding an innkeeper.  No tip is adding insult to injury.

Now if you want to insult and injure a Soprano in NY, why be my guest, who know waht disaster may descend on your head.

A few years ago we took the kids out for pizza.  When we walked in they told us about a "mandatory" 18% tip on parties of 8 or more (Me, wife & our 6 kids). I looked at him, laughed and turned to leave.
He asked why we were leaving and I told him, If the service is good , I give a tip. If not I don't.  If the service is good but the food isn't I might give a tip but I will talk to the manager.  I will not be forced to tip if I don't think I should.

When we got the bill the "tip" wasn't on there. We got real good service and the food was pretty good too. I left a pretty good tip.  We went back there a few more times before we moved and never had the "mandatory tip" .

i have no problem with tipping  at a full service sit down place. I know they bust their ass  and they need the tips to pay the bills. That's fine. What bothers me is , on a lunhc break this week i stopped at a subway and by the register i saw a tip jar. They expect a tip for making sub. They spend 3 minutes give or take on the sub and it costs me like $3.00. What kind of tip do they expect for that.  I have to seat myself, get my own beverage, bus my own table. They don't make $2.15 an hour like a server does.   I mean should i tip the person at the drive-thru at taco bell? how about the mailman? Or maybe the toll bridge operatoring. I mean she did press a button that let me me through... Here's a tip.. don't lick a steak knife.


J

I won't get into my opinions about tipping again, but in this case it sounds like the guy was wrong. He was informed on the menu and by the waitress that there was a mandatory gratuity. If he didn't want to pay it, fine, he should have left. He sat there and ate knowing that there was a required tip and then shorted the resteraunt. Whether the idea of a mandatory tip is a good one or not is debatable, but this guy didn't debate it, he just shortchanged the resteraunt and left. He was wrong, and while he probably doesn't deserve to get locked up, he should still have to pay whether he likes it or not.

This is simply my opinion, but it is worth pointing out that my policy on tipping recently caused me to be branded as the cheapest bastard on this board.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: $2.13 + tips! National Minimum wage here in England is $8.10 + Social Security Benefits and will be $8.73 from Oct 1 ANdy Dollars or pounds? Rates converted to US$ … (UK Pounds its £4.50 & £4.85) Andy

Thats kinda a misrepresentation of what you guys get paid. In your example it appears as if you guys have a VERY HIGH min wage when in reality it is LESS than we have here in the US ($5.15). You cannot do a currency conversion and have it appear fair. Your 1 pound purchase power is REALLY close to our 1 dollar purchase power. The only way it would be more for you is if you brought YOUR money HERE to spend it because of the conversion. Its all about purchase power.

Quoted: Obviously many of you have never had to make a living working as a server in the restaurant industry. If you don't want to tip then don't go to a full-service restaurant.

Thats bullshit. I pay for my food and IF I WANT TO, I tip. It is not required in any way shape or form.

You may as well have said if you dont want to take it in the ass dont go to a full service restaurant.

www.wnbc.com/money/3729682/detail.html

Charges Dropped After Man Arrested For Small Tip

Customer Says He Tipped 12 Percent

POSTED: 2:18 pm EDT September 14, 2004

LAKE GEORGE, N.Y. -- A man arrested in an upstate New York restaurant for not tipping enough is off the hook.

Local prosecutors said they won't charge Humberto Taveras for not leaving a big enough tip at Soprano's Italian and American Grill in Lake George.

The 41-year-old Long Island man was arrested Labor Day weekend when the restaurant owner accused him of not leaving an 18 percent gratuity required for large parties.

Taveras said he wasn't aware of the policy -- and wouldn't have left that much money anyway because he and his friends weren't happy with the service. He said he left about a 12 percent tip on a $71 bill. He added the service was slow and the food was not that good.

But restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice and the waitress told them, too. Soprano said he did not press charges because of the money. He said Taveras was rude.

The restaurant owners had police catch the Taveras family outside the restaurant in another store along Lake George's tourist strip.

Taveras was arrested and charged with a misdemeanor theft of services. He said restaurants should not be forced to make a person tip. It's supposed to be a thank you for good service.

The Warren County District Attorney's Office said a restaurant patron can't be forced to leave a gratuity. Prosecutors said establishments have to call it a service charge -- not a tip -- in order to make it a mandatory add-on charge.

Quoted: www.wnbc.com/money/3729682/detail.html The Warren County District Attorney's Office said a restaurant patron can't be forced to leave a gratuity. Prosecutors said establishments have to call it a service charge -- not a tip -- in order to make it a mandatory add-on charge.

Well, DUH...

Quoted: Quoted: www.wnbc.com/money/3729682/detail.html The Warren County District Attorney's Office said a restaurant patron can't be forced to leave a gratuity. Prosecutors said establishments have to call it a service charge -- not a tip -- in order to make it a mandatory add-on charge.[/quote] Well, DUH...

There is the correct answer.

<voice character=Baretta>
And dat's da name of dat tune!
</voice>

Quoted: Quoted: www.wnbc.com/money/3729682/detail.html The Warren County District Attorney's Office said a restaurant patron can't be forced to leave a gratuity. Prosecutors said establishments have to call it a service charge -- not a tip -- in order to make it a mandatory add-on charge. Well, DUH...

If you read between the lines it actually says:  "The Warren County DA's Office said: If a restuarant patron stiffs a restuarant of $3, we will not persue the case as we prefer that our reputation among the legal community is not that of the 'Village assclown in a suit'."


Sly

Quoted: If you read between the lines it actually says:  "The Warren County DA's Office said: If a restuarant patron stiffs a restuarant of $3, we will not persue the case as we prefer that our reputation among the legal community is not that of the 'Village assclown in a suit'."

Quoted: I wonder what happens if you "hog and jog" or "eat it and beat it" in a resteraunt like that one. do they shoot you or something?

Also known as "dine and dash."


What kind of meal could nine people have had for $77 and change?

Quoted: Quoted: I wonder what happens if you "hog and jog" or "eat it and beat it" in a resteraunt like that one. do they shoot you or something? Also known as "dine and dash." What kind of meal could nine people have had for $77 and change?

Uhhh, as stated, pizza.

Yet another reason to boycott the state of NY.

Honestly, if it were not for fall in New England, I would have ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason to ever set foot in the Empire State (yes this includes NYC, so much to do! so much noise! so much filth! so much stink to clog your lungs! so many pushy "we know whaqt is best for flyover country" types! Dan Rather!)

When I do go to New England, I take a short cut across the state to Rutland, VT - ideally not having to stop for gas or food. For the state that put those two Senators from hell in office, no amount of economic shunning is sufficient.

Tipping is for good service, period.

Mandatory tipping is not tipping, merely another tax.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I wonder what happens if you "hog and jog" or "eat it and beat it" in a resteraunt like that one. do they shoot you or something? Also known as "dine and dash." What kind of meal could nine people have had for $77 and change? Uhhh, as stated, pizza.

Sorry, did not see that in the original article. Even then, still sounds kind of cheap with drinks and all.

I am just glad he didn't have a dog with him or the results might not have been so good!

BigDozer66

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I wonder what happens if you "hog and jog" or "eat it and beat it" in a resteraunt like that one. do they shoot you or something? Also known as "dine and dash." What kind of meal could nine people have had for $77 and change? Uhhh, as stated, pizza. Sorry, did not see that in the original article. Even then, still sounds kind of cheap with drinks and all.

Probably just bread sticks and water!

BigDozer66

Quoted: Obviously many of you have never had to make a living working as a server in the restaurant industry. If you don't want to tip then don't go to a full-service restaurant.

If you don't want to depend on tips for a living, don't work as a server in the restaurant industry.

It goes both ways. You can't just have it your way.

Quoted: ''They shorted the check[/size-5] and didn't leave any money at all for the waitress,'' he said. ''This is not a vendetta. This is just about standing up for my waitresses.'' Yah ever notice how many dimbulbs around here rush in to add their caustic bitch and whine without reading the an/or comprehending the discussion Shorted the check is theft of services and/or defrauding an innkeeper.  No tip is adding insult to injury. Now if you want to insult and injure a Soprano in NY, why be my guest, who know waht disaster may descend on your head.

umm, you were wrong. They didn't short the 'check'. They paid for the food. They left a 12% tip. They didn't leave an 18% tip that the restaurant  said is mandatory for large parties.

The customer didn't see that. So he didn't pay.

I'm sure some will say "well that's no excuse".

Problem with that tack is that you can't charge a mandatory tip per the DA. It must be a 'service charge' to be mandatory.

Apparently the owner of the restaurant "didn't see that" little detail in the law he should have known.

Tough shit. His waitress was rude and received a 12% tip instead of 18%. Maybe that will teach them a lesson. Maybe it will cost them business too, because they came off  as a bunch of asshats.

What about the cheap fuckers that will find any excuse available to not tip?

"Hey waiter (snap snap) this water isn't wet enough, it will be reflected in your tip."

I have gone round an around about this shit on the boards, and the fact of the matter is that there are some cheap bastards on here, who try to defend their attitudes by saying that they didn't get proper service.

When I worked in the restaurant industry.

Honest to god I had people come in the middle of a lunch rush (when there is an at least 15 minute standing room wait to sit down) the people sit down and tell me that they have to get going in 10 minutes and If i could hurry up their pizza, and they'll "give me a big tip". I tell them that I will make it as prompt as possible but the fact that there is about 200 other patrons here with orders going in all the time plus the fact that it takes at least 10-12 minutes to cook the fucking pizza is gonna make it kinda hard to get you out the door in 20 minutes.

Of course that is all lost on them they are paying for a service, so we must bend time and space rules to fit their wishes,

of course these people are those that "the service is reflected in the tip."

Quoted: What about the cheap fuckers that will find any excuse available to not tip? "Hey waiter (snap snap) this water isn't wet enough, it will be reflected in your tip." I have gone round an around about this shit on the boards, and the fact of the matter is that there are some cheap bastards on here, who try to defend their attitudes by saying that they didn't get proper service. When I worked in the restaurant industry. Honest to god I had people come in the middle of a lunch rush (when there is an at least 15 minute standing room wait to sit down) the people sit down and tell me that they have to get going in 10 minutes and If i could hurry up their pizza, and they'll "give me a big tip". I tell them that I will make it as prompt as possible but the fact that there is about 200 other patrons here with orders going in all the time plus the fact that it takes at least 10-12 minutes to cook the fucking pizza is gonna make it kinda hard to get you out the door in 20 minutes. Of course that is all lost on them they are paying for a service, so we must bend time and space rules to fit their wishes, of course these people are those that "the service is reflected in the tip."

Congrats on your career move, the restuarant business just doesn't seem right for someone with your anti-customer attitude.

Quoted: Quoted: What about the cheap fuckers that will find any excuse available to not tip? "Hey waiter (snap snap) this water isn't wet enough, it will be reflected in your tip." I have gone round an around about this shit on the boards, and the fact of the matter is that there are some cheap bastards on here, who try to defend their attitudes by saying that they didn't get proper service. When I worked in the restaurant industry. Honest to god I had people come in the middle of a lunch rush (when there is an at least 15 minute standing room wait to sit down) the people sit down and tell me that they have to get going in 10 minutes and If i could hurry up their pizza, and they'll "give me a big tip". I tell them that I will make it as prompt as possible but the fact that there is about 200 other patrons here with orders going in all the time plus the fact that it takes at least 10-12 minutes to cook the fucking pizza is gonna make it kinda hard to get you out the door in 20 minutes. Of course that is all lost on them they are paying for a service, so we must bend time and space rules to fit their wishes, of course these people are those that "the service is reflected in the tip." Congrats on your career move, the restuarant business just doesn't seem right for someone with your anti-customer attitude.

WHAT THE FUCK????!???

An anti-customer attitude, because I can't make a pizza cook faster than it normally takes,

do you like doughy pizza? I don't.

Do you think you should be able to jump in front of everybody else waiting to eat
"Because Im a big important customer, just like everyone else here" I don't.

Thats not anti customer, thats anti stupidity.


and the reason I left the restaurant industry is because some fucking customer threw me over the fucking table and socked me in the jaw completely unprovoked.

You know what the restaurant did? bought his fucking dinner.

remind me to tell you the story, its riot.


ETA: Being in a customer service job, does not mean you can let people walk over you.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What about the cheap fuckers that will find any excuse available to not tip? "Hey waiter (snap snap) this water isn't wet enough, it will be reflected in your tip." I have gone round an around about this shit on the boards, and the fact of the matter is that there are some cheap bastards on here, who try to defend their attitudes by saying that they didn't get proper service. When I worked in the restaurant industry. Honest to god I had people come in the middle of a lunch rush (when there is an at least 15 minute standing room wait to sit down) the people sit down and tell me that they have to get going in 10 minutes and If i could hurry up their pizza, and they'll "give me a big tip". I tell them that I will make it as prompt as possible but the fact that there is about 200 other patrons here with orders going in all the time plus the fact that it takes at least 10-12 minutes to cook the fucking pizza is gonna make it kinda hard to get you out the door in 20 minutes. Of course that is all lost on them they are paying for a service, so we must bend time and space rules to fit their wishes, of course these people are those that "the service is reflected in the tip." Congrats on your career move, the restuarant business just doesn't seem right for someone with your anti-customer attitude. WHAT THE FUCK????!??? An anti-customer attitude, because I can't make a pizza cook faster than it normally takes, do you like doughy pizza? I don't. Do you think you should be able to jump in front of everybody else waiting to eat "Because Im a big important customer, just like everyone else here" I don't. Thats not anti customer, thats anti stupidity. and the reason I left the restaurant industry is because some fucking customer threw me over the fucking table and socked me in the jaw completely unprovoked. You know what the restaurant did? bought his fucking dinner. remind me to tell you the story, its riot. ETA: Being in a customer service job, does not mean you can let people walk over you.

Did you file assault charges? Damn...

Quoted: snippy snip. Did you file assault charges? Damn...

No, I should have but I was young and dumb, and in a service position, and not aware of my rights.

"The customer is always right!!!"

besides about a month after that my manager got served with sexual harrassment charges (and he was a gay guy!)

so in the ensuing uproar, I just found another job.

Watch for the made for TV movie. it should be good. (j/k)

My opinion is that a tip should reflect the service.  Terrible service gets no tip, poor service gets a small tip, decent service gets a "normal" tip, good service gets a good tip, and great service gets a great tip.

Of course, state law here says that minimum wage is minimum wage, so servers and waiters get paid minimum wage in addition to their tips.

Quoted: My opinion is that a tip should reflect the service.  Terrible service gets no tip, poor service gets a small tip, decent service gets a "normal" tip, good service gets a good tip, and great service gets a great tip. Of course, state law here says that minimum wage is minimum wage, so servers and waiters get paid minimum wage in addition to their tips.

See, he knows whats up, it isn't hard guys.

I smell lawsuit!

Quoted: A few years ago we took the kids out for pizza.  When we walked in they told us about a "mandatory" 18% tip on parties of 8 or more (Me, wife & our 6 kids). I looked at him, laughed and turned to leave. He asked why we were leaving and I told him, If the service is good , I give a tip. If not I don't.  If the service is good but the food isn't I might give a tip but I will talk to the manager.  I will not be forced to tip if I don't think I should. When we got the bill the "tip" wasn't on there. We got real good service and the food was pretty good too. I left a pretty good tip.  We went back there a few more times before we moved and never had the "mandatory tip" .

I generally tip 20%.  If they add a mandatory tip, I don't tip any extra to make it 20%.

Rememeber the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

Quoted: Quoted: Restaurant owner Joe Soprano said all the menus have the notice, and the waitress informed the group. He said he did not choose to pursue charges because of the money, but because Taveras' group was obnoxious. "It's unfortunate it has come to this, but this guy was rude and abrasive. They practically threw food at us," Soprano said. Oly hits it right on the head. This guy was a prick, and got what he deserved. I disagree with the mandatory tip, but this guy was asking for trouble, and got it.

I have had service so bad before that I had to be rude and abrasive and practically throw the food at them. Maybe he was pissed off because they were treating him like crap.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Theft of service? Why not just add that amount to every item on the menu, that way there would be no need to tip. Don't want to get in a war, and this will be my only post in this thread, but...here goes. Tipping is antiquated and useless.  I don't care for the practice. So you and Mr. Pink agree on that, eh? OK, so it wasn't my only post... But yes, Mr Pink and I are of one mind.  That bit of dialogue was great.

Cough up a buck you cheap bastard.

Quoted: and the reason I left the restaurant industry is because some fucking customer threw me over the fucking table and socked me in the jaw completely unprovoked.

Exactly what happened?

Quoted: .......nowing that the servers at my restaurant make $60,000+ a year while $35,000+ of that is cash.

Holy Shit, can I work for you?  I had no idea that some servers made that much!

Restaurants101

 I recently went into the restaurant business with my son and I have learned a lot about how they operate (I had zero experience).  I want to share with you how things work in the industry:

 The "standard" pay is $2.13 per hour + tips.  The government makes special provisions for payment of wages in the industry.  The government "ASSUMES" [not the owners or the waiters] that wait staff will receive at least 10% of their sales in the form of a gratuity (i.e. tips).  If the customer does not tip the waiter then the "built into the tax system" income tax for that sale has to be paid by the waiter even though he didn't get his/her "tip".  When that happens, we, the owners, have to make up the difference between the federal minimum wage (i.e. $5.15 per hour) and the "standard" rate of $2.13 per hour.

 When that situation happens then overhead costs have to be passed on to the consumer because, contrary to what most people think, the "profit margin" built into the menu charges is between 20 and 30 % markup.  That means that the cost of doing business (i.e. business licenses, unemployment taxes, workers' comp. insurance, Social Security taxes, lights, gas, water, cost of food, employee wages, etc. [the list is extensive] ) has to be come out of that 10 to 30 %.  So, the net result is that the actual "profit" we realize as a small business owner is about 2-5 % of sales.  It literally takes years to get back your initial investment in the business and then you have to keep paying for replacement equipment, supplies, dishes, stolen silverware and condiments, etc.  

 Being a small business owner in the restaurant industry won't make you rich.  I do it because I want my son to have his own business... it was his dream.

 So please... the next time you go out to eat, be nice to your wait staff and give them a tip for their hard work and effort.  Most restaurant workers have to put up with customer abuse, poor work conditions [it is hotter than hell in the kitchen-- believe me), long hours and little appreciation for all that they do.  Since I got into the "business" I see things in a totally different light that before I became an "insider".

 When in Mobile (if there still is a Mobile after Hurrican Ivan) please look us up at www.greendoorcafe.com

 Lawdog