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Posted: 9/3/2004 10:20:28 AM EDT
[#1]
Israel had some incidents of schools being attacked by terrorists in the 70's (I believe). Their response was to arm the teachers and the aides...no attacks since.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 10:37:03 AM EDT
[#2]
I was talking to my kid (HS senior and gun saavy) about that last night. Two things that would help are having some armed administrative types in the building at all times and some way (or code) to let SWAT know when to enter the building and start capping tangos, such as everyone hits the floor at the same time as SWAT makes their entry. Or maybe some way to train hostages how and when to bum rush their captors and kill them, concerted effort, at the same time. Other than that, not sure. Also maybe reqiure that some people (admin, teachers) have some sort of communication on them at all times, be it a cell phone, FRS radio etc. that would provide immediate communication with rescuers. That can only work supposing that a would be captive can slip away to a place of obsevation and relay info to the outside.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 10:51:20 AM EDT
[#3]
That's the best answer to the threat...unfortunately, the pablum-puking "soccer mom" weenies won't allow it...if I were a teacher, I'd carry anyway...un-Constitutional "gun free zone" laws be damned... |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 11:02:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Our schools are extremely vulnerable. It always has been. Physical fortifications mean nothing to a determined enemy. Sadly, it has been standard practice for public schools, LE, emergency services and public health people to teach kids to hide and wait for help rather than doing something constructive. It dosen't matter how fast the response or how many terrorists the response teams can take out, a lot of innocent lives are going to be lost. I fear the American public no longer have the stomach to accept that in order to ensure our safety, IMHO, the only real solution to this problem is immediate, massive, and final retaliation to those responsible, and if collateral damage should occur on their turf, tough. Reality is a bitch, and we are all going to die eventually. However, I would rather it be them than me. Eventually, through either them becoming more enlightened or too afraid to attach the US in fear of TOTAL annhilation, we will be safer. Anything less just encourages them. I'm probably going to be deemed evil for saying this, and I accept this. But if doing so will mean that my (future) children will be safer and not have to live in fear of being killed because other people are not happy with our prosperity.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 11:03:11 AM EDT
[#5]
With a CCW that's legal here already just not in the schools or at school events. Hear that Mohammed, in TN parents have guns in their cars. Tj |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 11:05:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Yeah but smaller towns dont need SWAT units or someone around here might feel oppressed just knowing they exist. Bubba with his shotgun will respond to the school and take them down. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 11:20:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Making schools more like prisions is not the answer. Ever try to storm a prison? They are just as good at keeping people out as keeping them in especially when defended by well armed fanatics.  |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 11:26:23 AM EDT
[#8]
It's called the 'laager mentality' , usually derisively, but somethimes 'laagers' work!
Resorting once again to the time-tested wisdom of progress through separation, thousands of farmers, called Voortrekkers, left the Cape beginning in 1835, and travelled in ox-drawn wagons as far as the Transvaal. Along the way on this Great Trek, the pioneers heading east were attacked by Xhosa tribes who were also moving into the region in retreat from the Zulus. To the north, they were attacked by the Zulu, when trade relations failed. And behind them, the British offered no protection. The great journey of the Voortrekkers is a central, defining event in the history of the Afrikaners. At the symbolically significant battle of Blood River in December, 1838, fewer than 500 Boers circled their wagons to fight off tens of thousands of Zulus without losing a single member of their own party. The laager (wagon fortress) became symbolic of Boer solidarity, and of their confidence that God would keep them safe against overwhelming odds, if only they would be faithful to Him and rally to the aid of one another. Here in the States, we call that 'circling the wagons!' Works pretty nicely every time it's tried! Eric The(AfrikanerInSpiritOnly)Hun 
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Posted: 9/3/2004 11:30:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Frankly, I'm surprised it has not happened here.
Only a few possible reasons IMHO. 1. We have taught them that the repercussions are too great. (very doubtful) 2. They just do not have the manpower/ logistics in place yet. 3. They stopped hating us. (not) I honestly think that politically our country would shift more toward the Isreal model, with civillians being armed, trained, and ready. Even Diann Feinstein called for Arming pilots after 9/11 OFFENSE IS INDEED THE BEST DEFENSE. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:00:11 PM EDT
[#10]
If someone thinks they are invunerable they are living in a dream world. My wife is a teacher and I have told her that if the SHTF for real to go out the window (one floor school) and RUN with the students. None of this lock the door and stay put shit. Better to not be a sitting duck.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:28:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Skeet, you bet!
Quoted: Ohio has come up with a solution. They are requiring that we demolish our "campus style" schools -- "Not able to control entry by unauthorized persons" and build a limited access single building concept. This will ensure that any individual will not be able to create a threat to our children. What they don't tell us is that a dedicated group cannot be stopped (barring a platoon of defenders at every school) and they will be able to control a large group of students by merely controlling the exits to the facillity. I am only happy that this won't happen until my kids are graduated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Making schools more like prisions is not the answer. Ever try to storm a prison? They are just as good at keeping people out as keeping them in especially when defended by well armed fanatics. ------ Yes, this is exactly my take on it. Such a school (one building) makes it much easier for terrorists to round up the students and control them. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 12:54:09 PM EDT
[#12]
+1
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Posted: 9/3/2004 1:10:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Perhaps the swift and decisive reply to two little high schoolers shooting up Columbine give them pause to consider that any attempt on their part to attack a school and murder people will be met with swift action, unity of command, and no hesitationon the part of those responding.
or maybe we've just been lucky. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:45:03 PM EDT
[#14]
I agree with the red part. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:58:29 PM EDT
[#15]
THERE NOT
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:58:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Making schools more like prisions is not the answer. Ever try to storm a prison? They are just as good at keeping people out as keeping them in especially when defended by well armed fanatics.
My point exactly! |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 2:59:42 PM EDT
[#17]
I work in a high school. The system tries to prepare as much as possible. It is like a mall, grocery store or ball game; we are open to some types of aggression.
But if some bastard tries to pull some crap with a box knife they will not walk out. Be vigilant! ( |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 3:05:06 PM EDT
[#18]
If every single teacher had a concealed handgun, every principle a subgun, and the janitors all had belt-feds....
...elementary schools would STILL be "soft targets" for terrorists. They will never be as fortified and secure as military bases or nuclear plants. There are too many of them. They will ALWAYS be soft targets, because humans just aren't supposed to attack school kids. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 4:00:04 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 9/3/2004 4:49:14 PM EDT
[#20]
What is with Muslims anyway? Don't they have the common sense to know when they've been defeated?! They have lost to Isreal, Iraq and Afghanistan lost to US, and Chechnya lost to Russians
After 50 yrs of terrorism, the only thing that they have accomplished is to get their ass kicked again and again. How many times do you have to get your assed kicked to figure out that you can't win? |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 4:58:01 PM EDT
[#21]
You miss the point my friend, they win when they achieve martyrdom and their rewards are in heaven. The Palistianian special HBO is playing right now, Death in Gaza, is quite enlightening. Tj |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:01:57 PM EDT
[#22]
In a word: martyrdom. When a belief system circumvents all normal means of deterrence, threats never work. Seeing one's comrades die inspires only the urge to follow suit and acheive similar glory. This is the central problem with fighting radical Islamists.
When you "win" even though you're mowed down like rpg-man was, it becomes a simple game of numbers. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:07:40 PM EDT
[#23]
I spent the last three years working in a public school that was located in a Baptist church due to their school catching on fire. I've thought about this scenario many times. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:10:11 PM EDT
[#24]
NUKES, FOLKS, NUKES!!! The ones that survive will be sterile and won't be able to father yet another generation of scum-sucking brainwashed camel humpers...
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:12:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Check the Beslan school story again. It was a Russian Orthodox school that they hit. wganz ¶ |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:14:29 PM EDT
[#26]
[almost serious] I hope they try something like that here! [/almost serious]
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:15:22 PM EDT
[#27]
It's harder to pull off an attack like that over here. If the terrorists can get the manpower and material in place, schools are just as vulnerable, if not more so, as the Russian school. But that attack took at least 30 people, careful reconnassaince, and a good bit of explosives and weapons. It's a bit easier to coordinate that sort of thing just across the border from a safe area than across the world.
The terrorists have to find 30 motivated people who are able to move around in the US (speak the language, understand enough about the culture to be useful, are experienced in moving around in hostile countries without drawing attention, etc). Those guys don't grow on trees, and they'd essentially have to write them off for this type of attack. They would need a way to get that many men into the country undetected, and the financial resources or infrastructure to house and provide transportation and upkeep for that many people. They would need a way to smuggle or acquire large quantities of weapons and explosives over here. They would need experienced people to perform recon and select targets. They would have to do all of this under the scrutiny of the police and FBI, and this while their command and logistical structure overseas is getting hit hard. The slightest mistake would mean failure of the attack and the loss of all resources put into it. Its not simply a matter of slipping people over the Mexican border with rifles and sending them off. They could try to do it with less people, but that would make it difficult to secure an area and take hostages in a large school and/or reduce the damage done, plus it increases the risk that one lone police officer could disrupt the plot enough to cause its failure. There are a lot of overlooked variables to this sort of thing. It's not easy for anyone to do. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:22:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Strongly disagree. You are not talking of defending from an attacking army, but from a group of poorly trained, poorly armed terrorists. Killing them on entry or at least slowing them down prevents them from taking time to booby-trap, or set up defenses. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:52:00 PM EDT
[#29]
Given the # of Moslems in the DFW area, it would not be hard to hide 30 terrorists and coordinate an attack in a town that is an hour's drive away. The Moslem terrorist that recently was caught video tapeing targets had come across the Mexican/Texas border and had video of targets in Austin, Houston, and Dallas. It is not a matter of if they can but of when they will. wganz ¶ |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 5:53:49 PM EDT
[#30]
My kid's school house is very well armed. Another benefit of homeschooling.
Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 6:02:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Agreed on that. You suspect though, that regardless of the liberal bedwetters, muslim communities in the US are being watched by interested parties. It would be risky to use domestic muslims in that way, although its certainly possible. The Neutral Observer was not downplaying the likelihood of an event; He was just pointing out that it would be difficult and expensive to pull off. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 7:44:08 PM EDT
[#32]
It's unlikely that any large group could pull off the logistics of such a takeover here .
It took allot more then just the action of the 30 or so that did the actual assault . If you look at where this happened in Russia , it borders a region that basically has had a civil war going on for 10 years , and has always had Islamic involvement . It can't really be called terrorism because of the fact that they are fighting to reestablish a country that was annexed by the former Soviet Union . Where real terrorist attacks are in the name a cause alone . Don’t get me wrong . I don't agree or condone bringing children into a civil conflict regardless of cause . That was defiantly a serious error on their part . You also need to consider that the Russians don't have a great record of resolving events like this . They consider 25-30% hostage loses to be a victory . If you watched the taped footage of the event It didn’t look very well planned and lacked organized execution normally expected from a military response . It’s a sad and disturbing event that I can only hope we never have to face here . |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 8:03:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Update on what happened at the Beslan Russian Orthodox school.
Seems that some of the terrorists worked at the school during the summer and hid weapons in the attic for this event. My wife indicated that they had hid an RPG7 in the attic amoung other weapons. So, some significant planning had previously taken place to pull this one off. Be alert out there. wganz ¶ |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 8:15:33 PM EDT
[#34]
You have to make the reply so horrific that even though souless pieces of rancid camel shit will pause. THey want holy war? Fine. Do this in a US school and we turn Mecca into radioactive ashtray. Give them a taste hell and destroy something that is more precious than their lives to them. I'd even be willing to give them a day's warning so no one need die - just the heart of their religion.
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Posted: 9/3/2004 8:22:25 PM EDT
[#35]
I REALLY hope that if they do, they do it in a very gansta NYC highschool.
There's enough kids that pack heat on a daily basis that homeboy aiming or not, they'd need alot more than the dozen or two that did what they did in the Russian school. |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 8:26:11 PM EDT
[#36]
It would never happen in a junior high or high school. Most of those already have at least one cop as security there, at least in HISD. If they were going to do a terror operation, the bastards would probably hit an elementary school. That's a high visibility target with low chances of resistance and would definitely hit us hard. I pray it never happens.
Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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Posted: 9/3/2004 9:39:02 PM EDT
[#37]
I could very easily see the reds doing this. |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 5:57:12 AM EDT
[#38]
School Resorce Officers are common place. Everyone is getting training with patrol rifles and active shooter situations. Most agencies either have their own SWAT team or participate in a regional team.
US schools are much better prepared than Russian schools. |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 6:03:18 AM EDT
[#39]
No, a mob of bubba's that will make even the Russian commandos look organized and well trained. |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 6:27:38 AM EDT
[#40]
At my HS we have armed officers and I bet we have other firearms on premise but that still makes my think about having something in my trunk, But will never do that because it is not worth going to prison if someone found out a kept a gun in the trunk of my car at school.
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Posted: 9/4/2004 6:28:07 AM EDT
[#41]
I worry more about our own "American Terrorists" (think Klebold, Harris, Loukaitis, Hamilton, Woodham, Carneal, Kinkel, Solomon, Ingram) taking schools hostage and killing classmates than I do about other terrorists doing the same.
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Posted: 9/4/2004 6:29:41 AM EDT
[#42]
i dont think teachers and guns will work.
most teachers sit and preach how bad guns are and they kill people so what makes you think they will sit around the school and shoot it out with the bad guys? |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 7:30:19 AM EDT
[#43]
While I pray that this never happens here, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before it does. I have envisioned the potentiality of a committed group of fanatics (about 100) all walking into shopping malls in each of the 48 contiguous states at 3 p.m. EST with semi-auto rifles and three or four mags hidden under coats.
If they started shooting, they could kill 30 or 40 people, and wound a hundred others before they got shot down. The death toll could number in the low thousandshe I wonder if anybody in law enforcement or the anti-terrorist task force of the FBI has thought of how to prevent such a terrible tragedy? Samsong |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 7:51:07 AM EDT
[#44]
And one cop bored out of his mind in an elementry school will be better....? |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 7:51:55 AM EDT
[#45]
Keep in mind, Mexico is "right across the border", and people waltz across that border all the time. This could easily happen in the southwest US. |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 8:11:09 AM EDT
[#46]
There's approximately 20 Million Illegal Aliens in OUR COUNTRY at this present time. Our Southern Border is wide open,just ask any Border Patrol Agent even their Union President confirms. The Northern Border with Canada is NO BETTER. By Canada's own admission they have known terrorists in their country and have a flawed Immigration Policy. Recently a few Pakistanis wer caught on a raft coming into the US from Canada. You mean to tell me out of 20 Million Illegals there arent 30 to 50 individuals who could pull this off. September 11,2001 SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH OF A WAKE UP CALL BUT APPARENTLY IT WASN'T |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 3:10:34 PM EDT
[#47]
all he has to do is get 998 out on the radio. |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 3:50:30 PM EDT
[#48]
You are correct Sir! I have yet to meet a school admin. who was not a liberal, whining sheeple, and only a few teachers who were not. My glass is only half-full on this one. A terrorist attack on a school type setting where kids are involved will generally bring the wrath of hell down on gun owners. "Its for the children" has worked in the past and will in the future. The sheeple will never see the light and there are way to many of them in this country to expect common sense to prevail. I can see the reaction of the school officials and cops if I were to suggest that the brass at the local schools carry guns. Hell, the Chief in our little village seldom carries his and one or 2 officers out of 6-8(mostly part-timers) take guns seriously. I am sorry to say this, but this sorry-assed state of affairs with the mind set of the sheeple in this country truly sickens/saddens me. A trajedy will not wake anyone up. It will only have the usual screwed up result...more stupid ass laws/restrictions.
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Posted: 9/4/2004 3:54:45 PM EDT
[#49]
It's just a matter of time...
C.g. |
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Posted: 9/4/2004 3:59:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Mexico isn't a muslim country. It could very well happen, but not easily. |
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