Rem700PSS,

I hope you realize from my posts that I am not discrediting anything HK has done.  I own a semi-auto HK21.  I believe it to be an amazing weapon.  I understand that the XM8 is just in the experimental/development stage (hence the designation X )

However,  my question of lethality has nothing to do with barrel size.  The XM8 is being tested with many barrel lengths up to a 20" model.  

But, chambering the weapon in 5.56MM, regardless of bullet weight does not increase the weapons field lethality.  There isn't a single shooting drill that can be done with the XM8 that can't be performed with the M16 series of weapons.

To those that 'hate' the way the XM8 looks:

When the M14 was the standard US battlerifle, the AR15 was considered ugly, untested, radical, etc...  The XM8 will suffer the same growing pains.  

Ultimately, I applaud HK for their R&D.  I just want them to consider improving the weapons destructive force as well as the weapons function and ergonomics.

-Fuji

okay, since no one else has said it..........


"Read the ammo oracle"


That will confirm or deny that statement for you.


It may even make you rethink your blind loyalty to HK and their decision to use such a short barrel in a weapon designed for general issue.



-REAPER2502

If anyone thinks that the army is simply going to scrap the accumulated optics bought for the M4/M16A4--M68, ACOG, AN/PVS 14-- they are crazy.  The XM8 is not that much better than the M4 carbine, all the hype surrounding it is interesting to read about.  Remember the OICW?  What a waste.  In the middle of a war is not the time to change horses.  

Their seems to be a lot of people worshiping the "NEW' HK XM-8 überRifle……

First point……

The XM-8 is NOT A NEW RIFLE! It's just a HK G36 with a fancy case, nothing more… and the G36 can be supplied with a rail system!



Secondly… the G36 that is the basis of the XM-8 is NOT A NEW RIFLE EITHER!!!!!…… it's a HK Clone of the AR-18, yes… thats right its basically a modified AR-18 action.

The AR-18 is the 'improved gas piston operated' follow on to the AR-15 that Eugene Stoner offered to the Military in the 60's but as they had already tooled up for the AR-15/M16 they did not adopt the superior gas piston AR-18.



So, a reality check is that the US Army is now buying what is little more than an AR-18 clone that it turned down in the 1960's… so the 'NEW' HK XM-8 is actually just as old a basic design as the AR15/M16… except all the problems with the AR series have now been sorted or addressed unlike a new set of problems waiting to be found with the XM-8.

ANdy

Quoted: Like it or not the end is near, many people hated the M-16 when it first came out. But who ever likes  anything the Army comes out with, The Bradley sucked when it first came out, people hated it, people hated the M1 tank, it was to heavy and all kind of other stuff. People hated the M60, but I loved mine. People now hate the ACU  and the Molle gear and the MRE's, so I ask what do people like thast the Army issues. Freefall posted a very good review on the weapon, I have yet to see one let alone fire one so I can not make a firm judgement on the weapon system. Remember most people said the first M-16's look like plastic toys, the same thing they are now saying about XM8 project.

Remember also what happened with the Garand testing in the USMC: they didn't want a semiauto rifle and to make the rifle to jam they even put inside sea sand (J. Canfield in his book mentioned this fact).

It seems that anything new is regarded with diffidence from soldiers.

With the years, soldiers changed their approasch with M1 Garand...

to hell with that all that shity shit the russkys have the sweetness  in the Nikonov 94 double tap tap 1.5 times the hit ratio I think this is the coolest rifle of late the HK seems sorta silly but what do I know I havent seen either the XM8 or the AN-94 all this one rifle for everthing is not happing unless we have a "blaster/plasma" rifle or some shit. If they need some testing done on any new or old rifle the can seen it to my house with a truck load of ammo sorry to butt in i'm just trollin'

Quoted: The XM-8 is NOT A NEW RIFLE! It's just a HK G36 with a fancy case, nothing more… and the G36 can be supplied with a rail system!

Exactly. If we are dead set on a new weapon, why not it? It now has real combat with real units under it's belt and all of the things that have been developed to latch onto an AR type will latch onto it. Lights, IR illuminators, optics, etc...

Damned if I get it.

Ah, hell. I want in on this.
I'm certainly not enough of a machinist or gunsmith or engineer to offer a qualified opinion as to which is better.
But as usual, I'm looking for other issues, and wanted to throw this out:
Just how much of this argument is due to the merits of the sytem, and how much is due to smoldering resentment of HK's civilian marketing?
What if the Hummer were being replaced by a Porsche or BMW machine? I would hope we'd be angry that money is going overseas, without all the other issues.
I do think that HK is missing the boat by refusing to make civilian versions of their military long arms. I suspect it's a business decision, perhaps fear of American litigation. I don't think they intend to be elitist, but that's how they are percieved by some.
I agree that the XM8 looks like a plastic toy. I thought the AR looked like a plastic toy when IT came out. And I still think so. My first AR, on top of that, was a POS. I was an HK convert for years, bought their marketing, hook,line and sinker. It wasn't just that, it was that the ones I shot didn't jam, and they shot little tiny groups.
I still think, FWIW, that the various G3 clones are the sexiest looking guns around. But I can't or won't afford them. I feel the same about Porsches and Beemers.
The AR I have now, a Colt, doesn't jam, and shoots better than I can. It's still ugly, but it works for me.
To come to my point, if indeed I have one... there is more than one argument going on here.
Economics - I don't like money going overseas.
Practicality - I agree with the post about lethality. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the XM8 is any more deadly than the M16.
Esthetics - they both suck. Go with what works.
Which is the best - I can only say what works for me. I'm not military and not LEO. My Colt does the job in spades. ( so does my Buick. Up yours, elitist swine.)

The above remark about elitist swine is a JOKE. If ya got the gitas, have fun.

Quoted: Ah, hell. I want in on this. I'm certainly not enough of a machinist or gunsmith or engineer to offer a qualified opinion as to which is better. But as usual, I'm looking for other issues, and wanted to throw this out: Just how much of this argument is due to the merits of the sytem, and how much is due to smoldering resentment of HK's civilian marketing? What if the Hummer were being replaced by a Porsche or BMW machine? I would hope we'd be angry that money is going overseas, without all the other issues. I do think that HK is missing the boat by refusing to make civilian versions of their military long arms. I suspect it's a business decision, perhaps fear of American litigation. I don't think they intend to be elitist, but that's how they are percieved by some. I agree that the XM8 looks like a plastic toy. I thought the AR looked like a plastic toy when IT came out. And I still think so. My first AR, on top of that, was a POS. I was an HK convert for years, bought their marketing, hook,line and sinker. It wasn't just that, it was that the ones I shot didn't jam, and they shot little tiny groups. I still think, FWIW, that the various G3 clones are the sexiest looking guns around. But I can't or won't afford them. I feel the same about Porsches and Beemers. The AR I have now, a Colt, doesn't jam, and shoots better than I can. It's still ugly, but it works for me. To come to my point, if indeed I have one... there is more than one argument going on here. Economics - I don't like money going overseas. Practicality - I agree with the post about lethality. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the XM8 is any more deadly than the M16. Esthetics - they both suck. Go with what works. Which is the best - I can only say what works for me. I'm not military and not LEO. My Colt does the job in spades. ( so does my Buick. Up yours, elitist swine.) The above remark about elitist swine is a JOKE. If ya got the gitas, have fun.

You make some good points, however, to be fair to HK, they are opening a plant in Columbus, GA to manufactor the XM8 and other products.  They also have their HK Defense HQ in Sterling, VA.  So really, they are German based but the money technically would be staying in the country, ala the new plant -> jobs  The XM8 is also cheaper than the M16 series, too.

Like I've said, I love the HK and I love the G36, but the housing is a flimsy plastic POS  The XM8's is much thicker and better built, but with the same overall design.