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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:02:35 PM EDT
[#1]
hmmm, looks like the little "tunnel" up at Red Rocks Ampitheatre (?) |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:25:21 PM EDT
[#2]
I see the benefits of IRS, but most off-roaders don't believe in it. Well the H2 can do *some* offroading: Hummer Academy    
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:34:17 PM EDT
[#3]
I'll get some pics of a friend of mine who rock crawls. These H2 pics are nothing. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:35:22 PM EDT
[#4]
I also see the benefits of independent suspension, not just IRS  , in a few limited offroad applications. Pre-running, Baja style racing, and the military's need for vehicle that can keep up with tracked combat vehicles over mildly rough terrain. Otherwise, a solid axle is better HANDS DOWN. And other than the H1, anyone who thinks that the current commercial market offers OEM independent suspensions that can competently tackle any of those few tasks needs to put down the crackpipe and take three steps back.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:36:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Stock vehicle? Gotta keep it fair. 
Oops. Well, you know what I meant! |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:38:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Well, let me mention my neighbor again.
He runs a local offroad association of all Toyota Tacoma owners. He showed me pictures demonstrating why he converted the front end to a solid axle. He parked the truck with one front tire up on a 3' high block wall right in front of some guys who were wondering why a solid axle is better. And he took pics. I don't know shit about four-bying but I think he does. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:38:49 PM EDT
[#7]
I was sitting next to one in traffic. you can see the front bushing which hold the radiator support in from the side of the,. They are directly in the open, could remove the bolts holding them in in less then 1 min with a ratchet and wrench. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:39:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Hell, a stock TJ on 31s could do any of that. *YAWN* Ever wonder why HUMMER won't let any other vehicles on their specially designed little course?
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:42:27 PM EDT
[#9]
 How about we just a limit, say $50K, and see who can build the better rig? |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:52:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Actually, I think that video does a terrific job of illustrating the typically inherent weakness of consumer grade independent suspension systems and their inappropriateness for heavy offroad use, especially with large tires. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 8:57:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Thats not a Hummer , thats an H2 ..... Or should I say a Tahoe with a facelift
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:02:44 PM EDT
[#12]
If you have to put 31s on it, doesn't it automatically become not stock? |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:02:49 PM EDT
[#13]
How about a stock Jeep Rubicon, ok?
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:26:19 PM EDT
[#14]
I took a Wrangler Unlimited for a spin not too long ago and it had 31's on it. They are a dealer installed option. I believe the Rubicon leaves the factory with 31's too. And oh how tired I am of hearing the incredibly lame ass "stock vs stock" argument from the pro-IFS crowd anyhow. Who fawking leaves their rig completely stock? Just because there's little that can be done to improve the articulation, strength, and overall performance of typical independent suspension systems doesn't mean the SFA owner should be held to the same limitations. Ease of modification is simply another benefit of SFA in my book.. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:30:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Solid axles are great off road, superior in fact, in most cases, but in a vehicle not set up for serious offroad you will see little benfit. The secret to the H1s prowess is the ground clearence and geared reduction in each hub as well as automatic tire inflation control. The best mix of the two I have used was the old Ford TTB setup. You had most of the benefits of both with few of the negatives of both. The challenge was keeping an alignment with it. Improperly set up you would eat tires like mad. S.O. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:33:33 PM EDT
[#16]
the defender is mine.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:36:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Same would have happened with any other vehicle, if set up and driven the same. In sand, soft, wide tires and momentum are your friend. S.O. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:37:01 PM EDT
[#18]
How about a real mans 4x4? 4 Wheeling CW |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:41:33 PM EDT
[#19]
But is that Disco stock?  
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:18:24 AM EDT
[#20]
It's a "I have a bigger dick than you" kinda ego-mobile. Bah. 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:29:28 AM EDT
[#21]
I was off roading at the dunes one time when I came upon a guy in a hummer II near the top of a large dune. He was stuck going up and was afraid of backing down the hill. I pulled up and asked if I could help. He told me his problem, so I hooked him up with a tow strap and pulled him out his rut to the top of the dune.
I kinda laughed because he was in this expensive vehicle and I was in a '91 Ford Explorer. The only thing extra on my Expl was 31" tires, everything else is bone stock. Obviously it was more a case of the driver than the vehicle, but then again, that's often the kind of people who buy those things, suburban commandos. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:32:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Hummer - when you got more money than brains.
I also like the pic of the $35K Checy pickup that creamed the $65K Hummer. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:38:15 AM EDT
[#23]
right.... 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:50:17 AM EDT
[#24]
what the fuck are you smoking? |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:53:56 AM EDT
[#25]
HELL, I'LL PUT 100$ ON IT! ive got an 87 cherokee (yes yes, a grocery getter, blah blah) that has taken shit worse than that without a problem. dumbass H2 owners.... small penis syndrome |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:56:22 AM EDT
[#26]
i think you worded the reply a bit better than me... |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:57:53 AM EDT
[#27]
In the North Atlanta area about 65-75% of the H2s that I see are driven by women with a kid in the back. About 15% are driven by these beef boys that just came out of Gold's Gym. The rest have BIG SHINY RIMS and Low-profile z-rated tires (because an H2 is ALSO a roadracing machine).
It is a Tahoe with a different body. IMHO, would you take a 4 door Tahoe offroad? No, not unless you want to break something. My buddy has a 2 door 1994 Yukon with the full offroad package, bash-plates, better everything. But he does not take it any place terribly rough or wet because it is too big and heavy. I think a great comparision that someone or a magazine should do is take a pair of calipers to the important suspension parts of "offroad" Yuppie rides and then lay them all out compared to vehicle weight and see who has skinny unworthy parts. Every commercial I have seen for the H2 you see the H2 in very rough terrain on a prepared road. (With the exception of the soapbox derby commercial with the kids and the homebuilt H2 that goes offroad......maybe if they built those instead....) It is a Yuppie show car. I have yet to see one muddy and I have yet to see one scratched up and dinged. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 5:07:12 AM EDT
[#28]
gotta tell it like it is. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 3:20:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Nope, we're talking stock here. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:03:39 PM EDT
[#30]
The Jeep Liberty? www.billhughes.com/libbyTraction.mpeg 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:17:31 PM EDT
[#31]
I would like to see a jeep liberty haul a 4 place enclosed snowmobile trailer and 4sleds with 4 men in comfort at interstate speeds.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:20:56 PM EDT
[#32]
They are just as good as any full size vehicle at 4X4ing and still do alot of other things aswell. They have some of the best aproach and departure angles. Buy what like and leave the other guys choice in vehicles alone.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:25:56 PM EDT
[#33]
You've never ridden in an H2 have you? They are very small in side. My liberty does actually feel roomer. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:34:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Yes I have ridden in one and for more than a few miles and it was very comfertable. Do you think the jeep liberty will pull 4 tons at 75 miles and hour all day long?
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Posted: 8/25/2004 4:49:56 PM EDT
[#35]
74 CJ5.
Super short wheelbase and low gears plus 34" bias ply swampers and a 4" suspension lift makes a very "able" off road rig. I'd bet big cash against a H2 with the same clearance and tire size. 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 5:28:26 PM EDT
[#36]
talking stock rides, i'd take an audi allroad over an h2.
i saw an allroad spank the shit out of 10 "purpose built" offroad vehicles at the 2001 paris auto show. it was quite amazing to watch it nimbly outmanuver landrovers, jeeps and the like. granted, low ground clearance and road tires make it ill suited for bouldering or uneven terrain, but on sloping trails and for a tight grip in the muck, its a damn fine car. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 5:33:52 PM EDT
[#37]
The H2 has a 8000# towing capacity? Prove it. I barely fit in the front seat of an H2. 6'3". You can keep your H2. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 7:20:16 PM EDT
[#38]
WTF?#?# That was PATHETIC. God, my Mazda Tribute did 1,000 times better than that in much harsher offroading, and it's not even considered a real off road vehicle.
Well sure, shorter wheelbase and lighter weight, it should do better. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 7:30:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Hey guys, you know what I think is cool? This thing. (as I try to change the subject)
 Stainless |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 7:35:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Hey that is a POS because it doesn't have straight axles! 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 7:35:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Now there's a proper off-road vehicle. Bet that Mk19 really cuts down on road rage incidents, too. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 7:52:17 PM EDT
[#42]
It looks like they have made a NEW one... with 4 wheel drive even. www.chenowth.com/alsv.html 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 7:59:41 PM EDT
[#43]
  
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:08:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Well I have yet to see an ANY Hummer do "Meat Grinder" at all... Here is my stock rubicon doing it. http://myweb.cableone.net/rnjacobson/picture-015.jpg
And a couple more modded. http://myweb.cableone.net/rnjacobson/flex1.jpg http://myweb.cableone.net/rnjacobson/Moabhill.jpg http://myweb.cableone.net/rnjacobson/crack.jpg http://myweb.cableone.net/rnjacobson/spike.jpg |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 7:26:30 AM EDT
[#45]
If you really have to pull 4 tons at 75mph all day long, the H2 would be a piss poor choice, too. |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 4:54:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Very impressive. It's too bad their are just WAY too small. Would be a fun toy though. |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 5:47:03 PM EDT
[#47]
fun but when "out in the woods etc. with much gear and people something like my 1989 Bronco near stock except diffs, 6 shocks(factory) and tires, said Bronco cost me 400 dollars for before the said upgrades,,just got back from the woods in North West Maine not in fear of dent scratches bent skid plates,,and gas tank..... my high lift do anything jack was the best investment 25 years ago. I do love pulling stuck yuppies etc. out with their 30thousand plus 4X4 SUV's... |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 6:28:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Bending it is the biggest worry for some... If ya build it right you don't have to worry. I have 3/16” and 1/4" plate all over my Rubi including gas tank But body damage can happen so you have to be able to accept the risk if you want to run the big trails.
As far as load capacity on the jeep, I purchased the roof rack and it works great for going camping and such. But the load must come off if I am going to run a 4+ trail. Any trail just to be safe!!! If you’re driving a rig that is built for trail driving as your daily driver then I believe that you are a special breed! It takes a lot of getting use to the mods that have been done to enhance trail driving because most of them take away from comfort... Also the H2 Will always be better for taking people back and forth from places. This is what it was designed for, Not for off roading! If it was built for off road situations it would be a lot smaller, and would most likely have a seven slot grill… WTF It does have a seven slot grill!!! Fuckin copy cats! |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 7:26:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Ya, know I loved my "Jeeps" great vehicles got kids more room,,everyone tells me buy a new truck,,,I hated having new vrhicles,,worring about damage down to a scratch on a fresh paint job etc. I just ride my Bronco hard as much as possible,,knowing that if I kill it Not wound it then I will get another 4X4,,,
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Posted: 8/26/2004 8:41:34 PM EDT
[#50]
A jeep would be worse.
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