Hineline, how would you react if you observed someone doing the same thing in your yard? Would you draw down on them until you determined what they were doing?

It is a trick question. Most of us would, you know it and it is the only logical answer.
But you wouldn't. You would hide in your closet and piss your pants while crying like a little girl. Then you know what you would do? You'd call the police and hope they responded as well as the officer here.

You come across like a candyass that think he is impressing people with his pic sporting a large shoulder hoslter and an even larger double chin. Do yourself a favor. That pic makes you look even more like and idiot than your post.....shitcan it.

Friggin' idiot.

I'd say you did fine. It sounds like you are a level headed guy. We need more Andys and less Barneys as peace officers! Please always remember that the good guys are out there mixed in with a few idiots. Personally, I'd hate to know I killed a decent man by mistake, that would be VERY hard to live with.

Why is it that cops think that everybody (non-cop) with a firearm is going to cap them? Guilty conscience? Well, when you go around threatening to kill people over misdemeanors, I guess so.
Remember, you guys are here to keep the public safe, not vice-versa.

See, this stuff is the root cause of the situation in Cincinnati. The cops elevate every contact to a life-or-death situation. I'm not saying don't call for back-up, I'm not saying don't be prepared, but this situation was escalated long before there was a confirmed threat. Why didn't you walk over and ask the guy what he was doing? Why do you think someone would kill you and ruin their lives over a $75 fine? Things have been escalated unrealistically, not by the public.
You guys are legends in your own mind! [rolleyes] If you want dangerous work serving the public, be a convenience store clerk.

The guy (criminal trespass) someone called in saying they heard a shot. I agree with some people here if you thought your life was endangered, and he was threaten people then yea
but if he has shooting squirrels then no but anyway you should of shot the guy anyway to make yourself feel better you have known that
one less criminal is on the street.

Whoa,whoa,whoa! Put yourself in the officer's place:

At a distance, you see a person pointing a rifle and acting irrationally in a residential area.  Officer takes prudent action by arming himself, taking available cover and advising person to put down the rifle.

Seems reasonable given the information presented.  Had the person acted responsibly by obeying the officer, he may have been let go with a "try not to be an idiot" warning.  Subject made the decision to be an ass, and got treated like one.

To those of you who are critical of the officer's action, Hineline and Garmentless come to mind, how would you have handled it?  Make sure that it is in a way that:

1. Protects the entire neighborhood, because that's your job.
2. Protects the subject, because that's your duty.
3. Protects yourself, becasue that's your right.

C'mon, guys. Put up or shut up.

Hey 'boy', with respect to making girly noises, Im a Fast Attack submarine VETERAN. Ive been in more places where I wasnt supposed to, at the risk of sure death, than the number of times your mommy had to take you pee-pee. Armchair commando? Try 1200' feet down FRONT LINE commando 'boy'. Know what's it' like hugging the underbelly of a Soviet carrier or sniffing the ass of a Victor III for months on end? Better get off the Cartoon Network before pontificating on subjects you know nothing about school boy. When I see your sorry skinny ass scratching your way through Hell Week, I'll give your worthless opionion more than a passing thought. Otherwise, 'boy', in my opinion, and all those submariners who served with me you will remain lower than a whale shit's shadow....boy. My only wish is that I could have received your humor while onboard. That way sparky, I could have posted your words on the crew's bulletin board and all us armchair warriors could have stood around and 'made girly noises' laughed at you. I can talk the talk cuzz I walked the walk sissy boy. Go here dummy to get a clue....http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a9d98262954.htm

Mr. Hineline:

1. I did not know it was a Pellet Rifle at app 50 yards.
2. At a close range (closer than 50 yards I would grant) even a Pellet Rifle could take your life. aka: Temple shot...
3. How do you know there was no one else in the tree? I did not know. I heard cussing.....full follage......irratic movements...who was he talking too, someone in the tree, someone in the follage, someone behind the tree???
4. You are right I did not hear a shot fired, and I was hoping not too.

By the way the last officer shot here and killed was shot by a 14 yoa boy. He shot the officer in the head. The offcier died. Would I draw down on a child with what I percieved was a weapon, YES, would I use what I hoped would be good judgment, YES. I did not shoot this guy, so why would I have shoot your child in a 'similiar situation'? I am sorry you look at the situation as you do, but thanks, for it gives me a different perspective to try to understand.

Agent99 or JJ, you need a lesson in etiquette.



If you want to ask a question you would do this:
Agent99, have you quit eating fart bubbles in the bath tub, yet? Or "Do you still eat...".

Also by "type" do you mean the people that wear badges that respond to burglar alarms in the middle of the night, rain or cold; or those that responsd to car wrecks and perform first aid or even CPR on critically injured people or even hold them as they die because no one else is there to do it.
Of course that could also be the "type" that crawls under the houses of widows and lights the furnace in the winter time.  I personally have done all the above.



BTW - that is "addicted", not addicticted.
Are there some LEO's that get off on that. Sure. We after all are a cross section of the society of this country. A certain percent are going to be bent in this direction.
Is hating all officers for the actions of a few fair?
Should I hate all other non LEO's because of your hatefullness?  



Now this is interesting of you to bring up. You have no listed e-mail address nor use you correct name on this board. You are obviously hiding. You also obviously believe this is acceptable behavior for you, but not for others.
In fact you call them cowards.

If they are cowards then what are you???  
"Actions speak louder than words".



If you had a real interest in knowing this you would have studied and found officers that shoot others are generaly affected profoundly - even if it is a "good shoot" and sometimes end in a disability to perform the job.

Those that shoot the wrong people or kids usually are devastated emotionally and never recover. They cannot live with themselves.
Why do you think suicides among law enforcement is so high?




And I guess you would be a "REAL patriot".

What arena of life have you ever had the guts to enter into and risk your life for others??

You who hide behind a computer screen and use fake names an spout hate are a joke.
You would not know a "real patriot" if you bumped into one on the street.

Go away boy, you are bothering me.

Trick shot, I respect your opinion, but you do not know too many judges..Some (actually most IME) give an opinon--especially if they are not the one trying the case...remember he bound it over, it was a probable cause hearing.

Next, wonder if the guy had just got outside with the weapon and had not yet fired a shot??? WOnder if he was using it to warn or incite some action of another person? Wonder if he had just committed another act..........the fact was I DID NOT KNOW, and thus had to take what I beieved was reasonable action to insure those in the neighborhood and myself were well protected.

Our force is down right now by I beieve 33 or so offciers. THe 300 count was just for patrolman, not counting Sgts and above........with everyone we are around 400.......and then add civilians, well we are not really too large........some cities here have allot more police. We could probably double our present force now and still be too busy. If they would let you I take you for a tour of duty........its not all donuts and coffee.

Columbus GA, near Ft Benning

this is funny your a what and you did what...if you have any training you would know that DOCSWAT did the right thing. and even if you did all the thing you claim to have done what the hell does being a cook on a sub teach you about CQB.. not a damn thing. have you ever been to a police acadamy...he handled almost to the "T" by the book.

I think 'johninaustin' said it best: Congratulations to David Hineline and Agent99. I've been lurking here for months and your idiot postings are the one's that finally forced me to register. The officer in question took a VERY serious situation and handled it perfectly. Now along comes a couple of armchair commando morons to slam him for it. (Just look at that picture. What the hell are you wearing that makes you lean like a tree in the wind?) don't let the jerks get you down guy. I have not the slightest doubt these two would have soiled their pants and made little girly noises. Those that have been there know damn well you did good. Agent99: This officer is not responsible for the Elian raid, or anything else you wish to insult him with, anymore than you are responsible for the OKC bombing. Try to show a little intelligence. Josey, every judge I've ever been before has expressed an opinion of the case after passing judgement. Some are just a little more eloquent than others. Zipster, check the distances/lighting/obstacles involved. You'd have to be almost superhuman to make that shot under stress with a pistol. Besides. He has a rifle, you get a rifle. Only common sense.

Agent99:

I posted before reading your response that you had been a submariner. I happen to have personal knowledge that is indeed a tough job.

Also I happened to have experience with people that did your same job. As a young man my best friend joined the Naval Reserve. He served 2 years active, aboard submarines. He came back with a disturbing new skill. He had learned to give blow jobs.

We parted company when I found that out.

The last man I became acquainted with that served on board a sub was a liar and drug addict.

We, too, have parted company.

Am I to judge you by the 2 men I have known, or decide all submariners are scums because "they" killed innocent civilians in collisions with Japanese fishing boats lately??
Did all of you give each other "high fives" when that happened.

Hmmmmm.

Hey SS,

Just like you told this boy to go away tough guy? http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a9d98262954.htm OR maybe here? http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a5ff5990632.htm You'll see, and maybe understand why middle class AMERICA is getting sick of your type. BTW, as an armed services veteran, Im NOT too, too impressed by your BB gun story. BTW, where your wearing your nazi issue ski mask at the time?

While I feel comfortable with my .45 at 50 yards or so in a resisdential area a scoped rifle to counter what I percieved as a rifle was IMO the best alternative. With a pistol, at that range, under stress, you are more proned to miss (50 yards in a fairly long shot). If I would have had to fire I would have desired my first shot to count. The fewer shots fired the better (0 always being the best)...........

I have too agree it would have been very hard too live with. I'm glad it went the way it did.

Walk over to a guy holding a rifle, cussing, acting irratically, not knowing the circumstances of just minutes before you drive up???

NOT ME!

Hey Blue, YOU never answered the question. Would you lay down your MP5 if your superior gave you an unconstitutional order? Or would you stay and collect another paycheck? Hiding? Hardly, what's to hide? I dont get it? I didnt know it was common practice to post all your personal info at this site. I as well as millions and millions and millions of every day working Joe's have just about had it with rouge cops (BATF prime example) of getting away with MURDER and trampling the constitution. I go to work, wear a suit and tie, have two small children, pay my taxes, keep my grass cut, go to church, etc. etc. and detest, for the most part violence.  Do I wear my veteran status on my sleeve? No, no need to. But to some tough guy cop (not you) who thinks he can intimidate anyone around I say, yeh, sure boy.

Or how bout this? Are you guys going to lay down your badges when the politicos say enforce this garbage? Im spouting hate? Or is it that Im worried about those sheeple that infest todays police force(s) and may throw me and my family into reeducation camps for owning firearms?! Hate speach indeed.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b17ad1b09c3.htm

Agent99.  You're a squid. All those things you mention were not your decision, but your captain's. I have no doubt he's a brave man with a good head on his shoulders.  You however were along for the ride and make no decisions on your own.  My newest private has more responsibility to act on his own than you did. Also, it's peacetime. You're chance of being shot at is VERY remote. As far as danger, the only real danger I've seen lately is that posed to fishing vessels. That's a far cry from actually approaching a possible EDP with a weapon. (By the way.  Since when did the Navy have hell week?) You're apparently not in the navy anymore. What do you do now?  Labor? Security guard? Fast food? Or do you just sit at some desk? Are you one of those pitiful wretches whose penis is so small that his entire life is defined by the military service that he couldn't hack?  I'll bet your immediate superior was glad to see you go.  I have a few troops like you myself.

Thanks all for your comments. I have learned allot form them. Different people, different experiences, different preceptions.....many thanks.

Thanks expecially to blue207 for taking care of the subber for me....it was getting a little deep for me. Wasn't Agent 99 the code name for 'Get Smart'........

Seems you have some troubles with the law Mr. Agent, care to share?

Yeh, laugh it up Johann, while your enjoying your self down at the 50yd range I'll be worring about the big picture. Your comment about 'being shot is VERY remote' indicates your level of ignorance of whats going on while your eating your ice cream sandwich and watching Jay Leno. Have a blissfull life and pretend there's no coming police state sheeple. And oh, enjoy your boy scout 'troop'.... homo.

Agent99, To answer your question: Would you lay down your MP5 if your superior gave you an unconstitutional order? I have the right to refuse an order if it is illegal! Yes I would, 'unless' he was going to kill, hurt maim......another in my presence without legal justification. Then I would use it to legally arrest him. I use to work Iternal Affairs in another dept I was a member of and have arrested, yes, bad cops.....unfortunately for the profession there are some.

As far as the rest of your posts they are childish and unmature and don't deserve consideration or an answer. Grow up and quit bragging about the past and do something productive in the here and now.

As I have said a million times to folks on the street when they ask why I reacted the way I did:  "Dead cops teach other living cops not to make their mistakes"  In the 80s an officer who works for my dept. went to arrest a man he knew.  He was pretty friendly with this guy, and even though he knew this guy probably had a gun, figured he wouldn't shoot him and so he didn't have his gun out.  Bad mistake, becuase the piece of shit shot through and through with a .357 magnum revolver and he never had a chance to return fire.  And he KNEW this guy.  DocSwat didn't know the guy, saw the gun, and reacted like any seasoned officer would.  You always protect YOURSELF first, then determine everything else.  If any of you panzies think you would do different, pick up a weapon and walk the wall for a while.  Maybe some dirtbag will put you out of our misery.

Ronnie
patrol/SWAT
"I've witnessed the dirtnap, and I want no part of it."

Some clarifications. It's John in austin.  Perhaps you need glasses. it's  also the  infantry.(Airborne) 15 yrs active, 10 years reserve. No air conditioning, hot meals, armor plate, or cute little crackerjack suits here, but we do get to jump out of perfectly good airplanes and go to neat tourist destinations like Bosnia or Honduras. (For someone who does not have to wear military service on his sleeve you sure are talking it up a lot.) Lastly, I prefer women thanks, may I suggest the "Men for Men" personals? I'm sure you can come up with something there.  I'm flattered by the offer though. Lastly, it's a 600 meter range.  M1 or M1A preferred. (Those are rifles. Go bang REAL loud) Come on down. Put you cajones on the firing line. All your hot air is just that until then. BTW: Kind of hard to watch Leno when I threw the TV away years ago.  I don't like ice cream either. bye Bye guy,  Good luck on growing into adulthood, Going fishing is a lot better than listening to your crap.

All your bullshit, and you STILL don't know what it'slike to look down the barrel of a gun.  Whoopty-shit, I have been in a submarine.  So what, I have carried the MP5 over the threshhold.  I have been in the stuff when the firing started.  Shut up and go away navy boy.  Leave the real fighting to the real fighters.

Ronnie

I will answer your question. First I do not carry an MP5, nor does my Department possess any. We have mostly .223 weapons and 12 gauges.
I personally carry a Sig Sauer P226.

Yes I would lay down my weapon if ordered to commit an illegal or unconstitutional act.
I would lay down my life to prevent such an act from occuring, if necessary.  
I have risked my life already to stop others from illegal acts.
This is no different.

I have resisted unlawful orders in the past AND HAVE PAID THE PRICE.

If you noticed I am still a corporal after 26 years.  It has been a long and sometimes bitter struggle, trying to live my beliefs and fight the system when I thought I was in the right.

BTW - I am also a veteran. I come from a family that is heavily steeped in the military.
My fathers generation was the WWII generation. That was my legacy. I had relatives that died in Pearl Harbor and fighing the Germans.
I take it all extremely seriously.

I also do the rest of the family bit, except I have children that have children of their own, now.

I am a God fearing man that knows hatred causes division.
Division brings weakness.
IMHO - The most serious time other than the original fight for independence is yet to come, but is fast approaching. I cannot speak for Federal officer but I can for local and county. They are your first, best line of defense. If you and I are divided, and if we do not have your support we are defeated already and have no hope.
When "Mark for Michigan" was selling his speal I know guys that were ready to dig bunkers in their front yards.
They are still here.
We are still watching.

The best thing about my current position and level of senority is the amount of influence on the younger officers that are coming on board.

I have shown you mine, now show me yours ;-)).  

Wrong! You should always protect your taxpayers first! You are just a public bodyguard, and when push comes to shove you should be willing to die for innocent people. If you're not, you're in the WRONG line of work, buddy.


Pansy? You don't know me.

Then you aren't fit for service. You knew when you took your job that you may have to pay the ultimate price!

Oh, and another SWATzi. A pattern here? You treat LE like you're on military ops.

Please don't judge all squids by Agent99's comments!

There are squids, normal everyday sailors, that do dangerous stuff all the time. For instance, noncompliant boardings enforcing the embargo on Iraq. (And fighting a fuel oil fire in a comfined space is dangerous too, just in a different way.)

Secondly, most squids don't try to equate their jobs with some sort of wierd special forces fantasy. Our jobs are tough and they are stressful, most jobs anyway, but not in the same way as facing deadly force situations everyday.

Just keep that in mind while giving us squids a hard time. [:)]

P.S. I think you did the right thing based on the limited information you had at the time. I have my own story about acting foolishly with a bb gun and police involvement. I was a teenager at the time.

It would be interesting to hear your story and your mind set at the time......what was going through your mind........ The guy I was dealing with was older and after talking with him, ....weird.........I'd be interested in seeing how the officer(s) in your case responded. Actually, that is why I made my post in the first place is too see how others would act......and the mind sets..........

By the way my grandfather was in the Navy, so I do not judge all men by what they have been in......but, Agent99 is unique to say the least and I doubt if he really served in the Armed Forces at all, except maybe as a cook, as was already stated. Of course frying pan duty can be very hazordous and looking down the barrel of a 9" spoon......can you imagine the tactical experience he gained.

How can you protect the taxpayers if you are laying there dead. An officer has to protect himself first, so he can be alive to protect the citizens he has taken an oath to protect.

As far as paying the ultimate price I have been stabbed and shot at as an LEO and actually wounded in the military. Most officers I know are willing to lay down thier lives 'whether they were a LEO or not'(there are peobably many here that have never served as an LEO or in the military that would lay down their lives as well, for their family, friends....).......it is more about being a genuine person and not just carrying a badge. While most are willing, it doesn't mean they go out and try to committ suicide by making unwise choices.

DocSwat: your backup was my pleasure. I will never leave another out there alone if he needs help.

BTW - I finally remembered Agent 99 was Maxwell Smart's female partner, wasn't she?.
Hmmmm.

I assume everyone has also noticed '99 was careful not to say exactly what he did aboard the sub he served on.


You mentioned wondering what we might have done in the same situation?

OK - Of course not knowing what an armed, full grown, man was up to: I MIGHT have observed him a little longer to get a clue what he was indeed up to.
Taking cover - by all means. As you, and most firearms educated people realize, the only rifle caliber that will not penetrate a winshield consistantly is a .22 (as in 22 long rifle). A 22 magnum will zip right through a car window. I have done it as a kid.

Watching him longer, if possible, would have also allowed your back up more time to arrive and contain the guy more effectively.

Playing the "what if" game, under perfect conditions to be able to scope the guy out with a good pair of binoc's (I am betting money you carry a good pair).

Then by all means confront him with weapons ready if you had the slightest doubt the rifle was the real thing.

On the other hand if he had a real rifle, he might have had time to engage you in a firefight and using cover of the tree and forced you and backup to take him out.
For all you know he could have been a cop hating citizen that was walking on the mental edge of life and fell off into the dark side and wanted to kill the first cop he saw.

In the end the proof is in the pudding. You went home at the end of the day. The "perp" was uninjured, and maybe will see the error of his ways - if "The System" works.

If it works out like then it must have been done right.  

[blue]Blue207[/blue] out.

I agree, his irratic behavior was unusual to the point that I did not know WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO 'NEXT'. I really thought he was going to shoot at something near the trees.....I figured it was time to at least try to get him under control. Can you imagine if it had been a 223 or 308 and he had shot it in that area, he would have something with the apartmrent complex, dorms, cars, traffic, pedestrians.....

Your right on Agent 99 she was a female.....uhmmm and Agent99 has very few posts--aR-15 Member TrollING

My Binocs (Steiner) were in the trunk...whoops......things happened so rapidily (probably 1 1/2 - 2 minutes tops till back-up arrived) that getting them would have been futile. I had a 4x ACOG, but still could not make out the type weapon...he had jerky irratic movements......and went behind the tree.....

Thanks Again

Frankly your story sounds  MADE UP,1st you said discharging a weapon in public is a crime,then you said it turned out to be a BB gun.Shouldn't you have known it was a BB gun when there was no report.You really should stop reading those Ayoob Masaad articles.

Josey, I believe he said it was reported as someone discharging a firearm in town, which is a criminal offense. Not that he himself claimed to have heard gun shots.
I'm sure that DocSwat has nothing better to do than make up bullshit stories for your and the other member entertainment.

I've noticed that Hiney boy has not responded back to this thread yet. He must be hiding in his closet with his shoulder holster on.

DocSwat

I was a little hard on you earlier, and I was wrong.  You asked an honest question, and I reacted like you were a wannabe.  I read your reply and reread your post and here is my objective comment.  

If you perceived an immediate threat then you made a prudent decision.  If the person was not an immediate threat to you or others, (your account seems to support this) It may have been just as effective to call for backup and evaluate the situation.  I lost a friend in an ambush under similar circumstances.  Lessons learned: because there was no immediate threat, he should have stayed concealed.   He should have utilized back up to secure the area before acting.  Just my two cents.

Handled perfectly!

Doc -
 Well done!  I had gotten differing training in "escalation of force" and probably would have dropped him out of hand!  I was trained to immediately neutralise any threat to my person or my ability to complete my mission!

 Looking at this from a LE perspective, you acted VERY correctly with regards to escalation of force, and did very well to cover yourself while operating alone.  As you mentioned, thew only REAL problem you had with the situation while lone-handed was the tree in your FOV, and despite the obvious dumbness evidenced by the perp, he should consider himself fortunate to have been arrested instead of shot!

 Doc, everyone left the scene alive.  Isn't that the ideal for LE confrontations?

FFZ
JSOC/SOCOM

Sorry - had to jump on this one again...

In the dark, with foliage, and with a subject moving erratically, the response was proper.  A rifle against a rifle is proper use of force, as I would not want to go against someone with a rifle of generally unknown capabilities with my sidearm!  Rifle versus rifle, sidearm versus sidearm.  I would only think about using a sidearm against a rifle if I had the absolute drop on the subject and was within hand-to-hand distance and was able to disarm the perp with the element of surprise.

Doc did his job, and did it VERY well!  I see no flaw with his response to the unknown situation folding before him, and I commend his department chief for keeping a certain amount of his SWATers on shift whenever possible and (I hope) at high-risk times and days.

As I said, I would have just shot the man, but I am not LE - I am CT.  Our rules of engagement are quite different, and once my cage door is opened, I do not need to take prisoners.  An ideal mission profile for me came down iwth all friendlies going home and all the perps on stainless steel tables.  Of course, my cage door had to opened before those rules applied - any other time I had to follow entirely different ROEs.

Doc, don't let these people get you down.  There are different areas of combat, and the only one that parallels what the LEO goes thru would be infantry - the killing of another individual at ranges where facial features can be identified!  

Those of you who have been in the "other" front lines, where you are not looking directly AT your enemy, you will not fully be able to understand what it is like to be able to look straight at another man and kill him.  You will not understand what you will feel after blowing a hole big enough to put both fists in, and watching it all happen in front of you and knowing that you caused it.

Sure, you had to live with firing a torpedo or dropping a bomb - and tat will blast your target into an unidentifiable pink mist or leave him crushed by unimaginable undersea water pressure.  But that is not the same.  That is not going into a situation where there is an unknown amount of force available to your enemy, and you are not sure if youare covered or armoured enough, of if you will be going home, or if you will have to kill the man you are looking at.

As for my kids - I'd probably shoot them myself if they tried to pull some dumbass stunt like that.  If it had been an LEO that pulled the trigger, I would surely want to know WHY, and it would hurt, but having been in those sorts of situations myself I would be more understanding of the facts and issues surrounding the event.  I would also want a chance to talk to the man, to find out what he was thinking at the time and why.

If you have not been there, you will never know...


FFZ
JSOC/SOCOM

To David Hineline and Agent99:

Your conduct just about this topic alone has been personally aggrevating to me.

DocSwat posted his story and asked some legtimate questions seeking comment and critique for his actions.

He showed the humility to submit himself to constructive critizism in regards to this matter.
That shows several things: A willingness to learn and improve his techniques and skills; respect for the other members of this board.

You two guys, on the other hand, responded with pure juvenile emotion, spewing your venom for your dislike of authority.

When I and others attempted to engage you directly with questions you both either became evasive or just folded and went away with your tail between your legs, which shows you had no intention of participating in an open, honest discussion.

Agent99 - your obvious dislike for authority is interesting. Assuming you were in the Navy you were required to submit yourself to persons of position and authority above you.  Your
outlook is obviously more than mere opinion of one man's actions, it clearly indicates dislike of authority.
I am going to bet you were a disclipine problem while in the service.
Your juvenile actions are what prompted me to refer to you as boy. Also, as I am 50 years old, I am probably old enough to be your father.
How old were you in 1969? Hmmm.  That is when I entered my military service.

If you want respect then you have to give respect. Even people on the street know that.

I for one do not appreciate your conduct in this matter. If that is going to be your only type of contribution to this board I wish you both would just go away.

Discharging a Firearm in the city is a crime, Criminal Trespass is a crime. The reason I mentioned the above is because it shows the crimes he was commiting Criminal Trespass and  may be preparing to commit firing a weapon within the city limits and thus gives me probable cause to act. Probable Cause was the intent of my former statement and if your a LEO you better have legal PC or prepare for..........

I never heard a shot, but then again he may not have had time to take one yet and thus no one would have heard one. With your logic an AR-15 is not an AR-15 unless you hear a shot???

The fact that you titled your post "Almost shot someone yesterday" screams of BS.If this is a factual account of what happened than I think you are going to have problems in your future as an LEO(if you are one).I say this because you chose to announce that you almost shot someone,rather than say you had to disarm a citizen.Your post is full of bravado and the fact that you took more from "Almost shooting someone" than from the actual events is quite sad and disturbing.

Josey:
What brings you to that conclusion?

When I worked at Sports Authority years ago, I would have given my left arm to be able to kill a pain in the ass customer with the wrong sized shoe. Manner of death? They'd never guess.
heheh
DocSwat,it was textbook, man. Relax.
CS

-Assuming the wrong thing in police work is not like adjusting the timing on your car by guessing, or giving the wrong size of shoes to a customer - you can get killed.

You know it is real hard to recover from being dead.-

Hey gutless,

I can now tell beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are not now nor have you ever been in law enforcement.  You probably have never seen anything more dangerous than the zoo.  Stop watching tv.  A dead cop does noone any good.  We never go out looking to get dead.  And further, the dirtnap comment just means that I will do EVERYTHING in my power never to have to GIVE the dirtnap.  If I die, it's over.  But if I kill, I have to live with that for the rest of my life.  And it is not a fun thing to justify to yourself.  Maybe I'M the pansy, I don't know, but I have had enough of the killing, thanks.  I will do the job, and I will do it to the best of my ability.  But I will try everything I can think of NOT to kill.

That's what I meant by that comment.

Ronnie
just another dirtbag street cop that you cuss but rely upon in the same day.

Josey:

I am sorry you look at it that way. I named the post that way because "IT IS" what almost happened. Yes, I disarmed a citizen also, but that happened "AFTER" I had almost pulled the trigger. I was looking for some constructive criticism on how I had handled the situation because I was reflecting on what had happened and several things were going through my mind in the "WHAT IF" category. If you have ever been in a situation like this or ever been shot, or shot at....you would too...it is a natural response for a reasonable person.

As far as the Bravado appeal that is non-sense. If I desire that type of feedback I know better than to post it here or anywhere where 'some' sane people are. I get enough pats on the back from my department in previous situations and I do not need them from people I do not even know...kind of shallow staement for you to make...

By the way I have been an LEO for over 10 years now, but it does not really matter if you believe it or not. Would you like some pics of my credentials or training certificates....send me your e-mail....and I will get my wife to photocopy them for you.... [email protected]

By the way you never responded back to the original answer to your original post:

Discharging a Firearm in the city is a crime, Criminal Trespass is a crime. The reason I mentioned the above is because it shows the crimes he was commiting Criminal Trespass and may be preparing to commit firing a weapon within the city limits and thus gives me probable cause to act. Probable Cause was the intent of my former statement and if your a LEO you better have legal PC or prepare for..........

I never heard a shot, but then again he may not have had time to take one yet and thus no one would have heard one. With your logic an AR-15 is not an AR-15 unless you hear a shot???

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Quoted:
Frankly your story sounds MADE UP,1st you said discharging a weapon in public is a crime,then you said it turned out to be a BB gun.Shouldn't you have known it was a BB gun when there was no report.You really should stop reading those Ayoob Masaad articles.

DocSwat:

IMHO we have beat this dead horse long enough.

I have learned with this, though.

Again we see you can only depend on your friends to be there when you need them.
But we already knew this.

The only thing left is determining who your friends are.

If TSHTF ever occurs there will be some you can count on and some you can't, and a bunch in the way. What's new?

Well Said !