How busy was this street? Was it a freeway? What speeds?

But police spokesman Capt. John Williams said the officer, a 13- or 14-year veteran, did what he needed to do to keep Thewo out of harm's way.

"I'm sure that by him Tasering that fellow, that was a last resort," Williams said. "You can take that to the bank."

The police report states the officer repeatedly called for Thewo to come out of the street, but he kept walking north on Ironwood, nearing the Lincoln Way East intersection. The officer tried to handcuff him and pull him back from traffic, but Thewo pulled away and the officer deployed his Taser.

Thewo fell to the ground, but then began to walk away toward traffic. The officer again used his Taser, then called for an ambulance.

For the ones that are missing that the officer tried to

Verbally move the man away from traffic -FAIL
Restrain the man physically - FAIL
Taser him to stop him - FAIL
Taser a second time to stop him

What more could the officer do?

For those who have never dealt with an alzhiemer's patient, it can be like the mind of an 18 month old in an elderly person's body. They are often disoreiented, fearful because they don't understand most of what is happening around them, more than a few react with anger.

I've had to take a couple to a psych hospital because they were totally out of control, and attacking other patient and staff at the chronic care facility they were housed in.

It's incerdibly gut wrenching, dealing with a person in that condition. They can be an incedible danger to themselves however.

Quoted: How busy was this street? Was it a freeway? What speeds?

In the linked thread another poster said they were familiar with that area, and it is a heavily travelled intersection.

Quoted: I love threads like this, lets me see all the Cop Haters. This Officer did what he needed to do. The real question is why did the Family let this man wander off and why does Q still have an account here?

Maybe because your not staff .................

Maybe Tasers are a new kind of therapy for Alzheimer's, ever think of that, Q?

Quoted: Maybe Tasers are a new kind of therapy for Alzheimer's, ever think of that, Q?

Works for brown recluse bites ... may as well try other applications.

Why not just help the old man across the street?

Tazer the cop!

+1

Quoted: What ever happened to escort techniques? A bad apple in the bushel.

Why bother to worry about that shit when you can just Taser the old fucker?


The Taser is an excellent tool with incredible potential, but unfortunately it seems as if it is becoming a crutch for the lazy or a cop-out due to risk managment and lawyers.

That's how old men with Alzheimer's and 12 year old girls end up getting Tasered.

Quoted: knowing NOTHING more about this story than what I read, I'd say sue his ass.  I've seen a few dozen alzheimers patients and while some of them seemed crazy as shit, NONE of them were robust enough to be threatening.... as usual, there is another side to this story, but knowing just this,  tazering an old alzheimers man is wrong.

Not worth it.  Something called "Tort reform" has been actively pursued for a long time and most states have some form of qualified immunity from suit - there are some exceptions that make police suits available, but they are just not worth it anymore financially.  So the police can pretty much get away with anything they want now here in my jurisdiction.   That is one side of tort reform that was unintended consequences for a lot of folks who just gave their rights away...

Q you are way out of line,your initial post was correct in that this was not the most reasonable way in handleing this situation!

And an Alzeimer patient sometimes has the capacity of a nine month old!!  If a nine month old had been in diapers and crossing the same street would the police handled it the same way(if you are close enough to tasser you are close enough to grab)?


I don't think if the same thing happened again tommorow it would be adressed this way again!

But maybe just the laying on of hands would have sent this man to the ground!

And that would also send up flags!

I hope my 80 year old mother never get this kind of special treatment for her dementia!


Bob

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I love threads like this, lets me see all the Cop Haters. This Officer did what he needed to do. The real question is why did the Family let this man wander off and why does Q still have an account here? Maybe because your not staff ................. I am--Mr. Q is leaving the building as soon as I hit "submit."

Thank you

I am not saying this is the case here but Alzheimers patients can become very violent.  Although their mind may be like that of a child, a lot of them still have physical strength and do not realize what they are doing.  BTW, my father had Alzheimers so I know from experience.

My mother has Alzheimer's.  She has been in assisted living and now in skilled care.  I have seen ~65 year old men who are in good physical shape take on one nurse and three aids.  My own mother tried to beat the shit out of the poor girl trying to take her to the bathroom, wash her, etc, until they got the meds adjusted.  There are laws about sedating or restraing people in nursing homes.

Not atypical for the media, 'details' have been omitted such as the guys size.  
Alzheimer's patients are not frail elderly people.  I have taken a shot from one of them because I was talking to my mother (or at least trying to) instead of her.  Only God knows what is going on in their heads.

All I am really mad about is that people just don't want to get envolved any more!

Why couldn't someone had just had the decency to step up to the plate!

Just stop your car get out (maybe just one of the many people on the street around him) and gently take this old man by the arm and help him obtain his goal maybe the other side of the street!

Maybe just an Ice cream cone or dialect till some one could find a way to help him with his problem!

Coppers,police,flatfoots used to do these things!!!

What has happened to us???


Bob

Quoted: I feel it is relevant to post this last IM: You have the right to your opinion Q. I will tell you this just once. Never advocate shooting police officers on AR15.com or I will have you removed. And verbally abusing moderators will not be tolerated either. We appreciate the diversity of opinions on this site and hope to have you remain here as a contributor. But if you continue with this same behavior, you leave us with no choice than to remove you.

I agree that we shouldn't talk about shooting police officers, but I hope  you would ban him all the same if he talked about shooting Joe Private Citizen, as well.

Quoted: And as I told you, I advocate shooting criminals.  Still, you refuse to answer MY question about how to tell criminal cops apart from the good cops. Perhaps there is no difference.

If they ARE officers who have committed criminal acts, then the place to handle that is in the courtroom where anyone elses case is heard, not at the barrel of your gun.

Everytime we would visit my 85 yr old Great Uncle at the assisted care facility, as we would leave he would try and go with us. He was clearly out of his mind 80%ish.

Nurse- "Mr Jim, now you know you cant go with them, cmon lets go back".

Uncle Jim- "Bitch, you aint the police, get your damn hands off me".


85 yr old, West Virginia mountain man. Strong as an ox, if he had any more mind could probably whip half the people on this boards ass.

RIP Uncle Jim, you were a cool mf in your day, and one helluva woodsman.



(I am sure the one arfcommer from Poco Co. knows my Uncle Jim.)

If that was my Father or Grandfather and Tasering him was the only option to save him from getting creamed in the middle of the street..then I would be fine with that..

As for Q..he needs some help..and I would, until his mental state is secure, advocat removing his firearms..for everyone's safety...

Quoted:
If that was my Father or Grandfather and Tasering him was the only option to save him from getting creamed in the middle of the street..then I would be fine with that..

As for Q..he needs some help..and I would, until his mental state is secure, advocat removing his firearms..for everyone's safety...[/quote]



Well said and 100% accurate.

I know a lot of LEOs. And I would bet the bank none of them would take over-reactionary steps like that SBPD fella did.

Well, it looks like you just might lose that bet.  While your story "sounds" bad, it appears that his actions under those circumstances may have been reasonable and necessary.  The officer tried lesser means of empty-hand controls.  I imagine that you would be the first to complain if this officer stood there and said, "Sir!"  "Sir!  "Sir!" and the guy got hit by an 18-wheeler.  The bottom line is that he needs to take action to safeguard that old man's life.  Sometimes that means using force.

If anything, the Alzheimer's probably made him less rational and more dangerous to himself and others.

Sincerely, you are right. My problem, and the problem that many future victims share with me, is that we can never tell when we meet up with that bastard cop that will hurt us for nothing. Got any advice on how to avoid that, other than shooting cops on sight?

SCREEEEECH!  Back up a second.

Using your logic, a police officer who reads the story of Trooper Vetter:

----------------------------------------
www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=15433

Trooper Randall Wade Vetter
Texas Department of Public Safety
Texas
End of Watch: Monday, August 7, 2000

Biographical Info
Age: 28
Tour of Duty: 6 yrs
Badge Number: 8243

Incident Details
Cause of Death: Gunfire
Date of Incident: Thursday, August 3, 2000
Weapon Used: Rifle
Suspect Info: Convicted of murder

Trooper Vetter died from a gunshot wound he received four days earlier while conducting a traffic stop.

Trooper Vetter had stopped a 72-year-old driver for not wearing a seatbelt. While he was sitting in his patrol car, the suspect exited his vehicle and opened fire with a rifle. The trooper was struck in the head. Trooper Vetter was able to return fire but did not hit the suspect.

The suspect then used the patrol car's radio to say he shot the officer and then attempted to flee the scene. An off duty officer who was passing by, witnessed the shooting and alerted other officers. The suspect was then taken into custody after a brief standoff on the roadway. The suspect was known to local officers for claiming he would shoot any officer who tried to write him a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. The suspect was convicted of murder.

Trooper Vetter had been with the Texas Department of Public Safety for six years, and is survived by his wife and eight-month-old son.
----------------------------------------

Would think something like this, using your brand of logic:

"My problem, and the problem that many future victims share with me, is that we can never tell when we meet up with that bastard old man that will hurt us for nothing. Got any advice on how to avoid that, other than shooting old men on sight?"  Or choose the ethnic or racial group of your choice.

Utterly illogical.

Tazing an old man, in this case, is a crime. IMO. Since you refuse to answer my question about how to tell a good cop from a bad cop, then you have no currency with me. If people  cannot be safe from the "police" in this country anyway, they have a right to defend against them, using deadly force if needed. YOU ARE THE ONE STARTING THIS SHIT, NOT ME. Since you cannot or will not give an answer on how to tell those kind of cops apart, then I can say we have a right to defend in all cases. You are part of the problem with your us vs them mindset.

Mr. Q here is doing his part to bring us all together to combat the "us vs. them" mindset.

Your priorities are way out of whack.  Or are they?  Maybe we would all be much safer if there were no police.  Hell, if there are no police, then what do we need the legislative or judicial branches for either?  Why not just can the whole system and make it every man for himself?

You have a lot more to fear from criminals than you do from the police.  Try filing a complaint with the Crips IA department when one of their gang members is "rude" when he rapes your sister.  Go ahead and file a complaint when addicts go a little too far kicking your Dad's ass for his wallet so they can buy another crack rock.

Sheesh.

Ultimately, you need to ask yourself what would you want that officer to do if that were your Gramps out there in the road.  Fiddle around grab-assing and get them both run over and possibly cause a wreck, or act decisively and get him out of the road?

People like you lie safe in their beds because rough men and women stand ready to do violence on your behalf.  Even if it's not pretty or politically correct.

And I supposed the Q's of the world think that "JBT's" like Trooper Vetter have it coming.  They have a lot of nerve enforcing seat-belt laws handed to them by department policy, the legislature, upheld by the courts, and ultimately originating from the citizenry themselves.  God forbid he stop someone for a seatbelt violation and find out that they are a wanted rapist or something.

if you don't follow verbal commands, you ought to be tased...parents... this is a great technique for use on your children

Quoted: the new Chief of the Dallas police dept. is currently "cleaning house" of those officers who have had a history of complaints by citizens. He's taking them off the streets until an investigation can be completed.

To the joy of every career criminal in Dallas. The only cops that never get complaints are the ones that rarely do self initiated activity and do as little as possible on assigned calls.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: the new Chief of the Dallas police dept. is currently "cleaning house" of those officers who have had a history of complaints by citizens. He's taking them off the streets until an investigation can be completed. To the joy of every career criminal in Dallas. The only cops that never get complaints are the ones that rarely do self initiated activity and do as little as possible on assigned calls. Please don't misunderstand that, bro.  He conducts a full investigation.  IF the complaints are substantiated, action is taken.  If the complaints are without merit, the officer returns to active service. Those who have been released, deserved it.  Those who've gotten back on the street, earned it.

I hope that is really the case. I have seen too many police chiefs who will trade anything, including a high crime rate, for a lack of complaints.

Police Chiefs hate complains, no matter how petty or unfounded.

There is a woman in my patrol area that complains about me every time i even drive buy (she has a camera monitering the street). She's a drug dealer who is moving several pounds of meth a week out of her house. She has a bunch of NLR and AB guys living with her. she uses them as her Mules & muscle.  I have arrested two of her mules for felonys. After each arrest she complained to the chief that my arrest of her ROOMATES was harrassing her.  I contacted a parolee half a block away from her pad and she came out with her note pad and tape recorder asking why I was harrassing her.  So apparently I cant even do police work on her street without generating a complaint.

in Dallas i would probubly be on desk duty.

Quoted: I am--Mr. Q is leaving the building as soon as I hit "submit."

Somehow......the air smells fresher.

Quoted: And as I told you, I advocate shooting criminals.  Still, you refuse to answer MY question about how to tell criminal cops apart from the good cops. Perhaps there is no difference.

The "GOOD" cop doesn't use inflammatory rhetoric.