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Posted: 2/1/2023 1:40:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Right, because sighting system doesn't matter until after 12-15 yards No, it matters. The more shooting you’re doing including transitions and the more you’re moving the more it matters. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2023 2:06:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: No, it matters. The more shooting you’re doing including transitions and the more you’re moving the more it matters. Nope, better grip is more important |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 2:12:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 45-Seventy]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Nope, better grip is more important Crushing grip is absolutely important regardless of other factors. Several factors can influence performance at the same time. It’s not like you can have great equipment and shitty technique and still expect to perform. Exactly zero people are suggesting that. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2023 2:48:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BaconFat]
[#4]
And with good technique. Sighting system have the smallest impact on performance
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Posted: 2/1/2023 3:09:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheeks: One must master the fundamentals of iron sights. I did that 45 years ago. I can no longer see them, and the circle dot from holosun is a game changer. The fundamentals of the iron sight requires attention on sight alignment and placement on the target. To master this requires a lot of practice, live and dry fire. The fundamentals of the red dot remove the sight alignment, two objects to align, and replaces it with a single dot, circle, or whatever the reticle. This simplifies the aiming process, takes it back to when the weapons we used had no sights, and aiming was more instinctive. If the other fundamentals of pistol shooting are followed, red dots absolutely simplify learning for new shooters, and will improve most everyone using irons only. A master class irons shooter will beat a moderate red dot shooter, but the issue is not iron sights vs red dot, it's all the other things the master shooter has "mastered" beyond the sights. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2023 3:15:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Curious, I'm getting a G45 that will eventually get the Radian Ramjet as well as the new Guardian that fits the Holosun EPS. I currently have an unmounted 407co x2 that I was considering putting on a FCD plate and running, however the Steiner MPS, ACRO P2, and Holosun EPS have all caught my eye. Does anyone have any insight on these choices as to what will be the best of the three? Thanks.
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Posted: 2/1/2023 3:50:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By witchking777: Curious, I'm getting a G45 that will eventually get the Radian Ramjet as well as the new Guardian that fits the Holosun EPS. I currently have an unmounted 407co x2 that I was considering putting on a FCD plate and running, however the Steiner MPS, ACRO P2, and Holosun EPS have all caught my eye. Does anyone have any insight on these choices as to what will be the best of the three? Thanks. I’m in the process of starting to test a MPS though I can’t give much at this time due to time with it, though it is clear and has a crisp dot. Adjustments are good as are the brightness settings in various lighting. Don’t have an ACRO yet to speak of it but it gets good marks from those who have them that I’ve seen. Your plan to use a FCD plate is in my opinion right on the mark they’ve been an excellent company to deal with.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 4:53:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunnie357: I’m in the process of starting to test a MPS though I can’t give much at this time due to time with it, though it is clear and has a crisp dot. Adjustments are good as are the brightness settings in various lighting. Don’t have an ACRO yet to speak of it but it gets good marks from those who have them that I’ve seen. Your plan to use a FCD plate is in my opinion right on the mark they’ve been an excellent company to deal with. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490499/1500BD53-599E-4500-9E76-1596167CDBB6_jpe-2693931.JPG @greybeast50 has that one with tons of rounds under it. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 5:06:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: And with good technique. Sighting system have the smallest impact on performance Absolutely valid if you have to make a Sophie’s Choice between skill level or sighting system. But you don’t. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 5:31:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: No, it matters. The more shooting you’re doing including transitions and the more you’re moving the more it matters. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By BaconFat: Right, because sighting system doesn't matter until after 12-15 yards No, it matters. The more shooting you’re doing including transitions and the more you’re moving the more it matters. Not really. It's a nice to have though |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 6:39:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 45-Seventy]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Not really. It's a nice to have though Then why is it that the higher the round count and complexity of the stage the farther an optics shooter of similar skill level pulls ahead? Particularly when there’s more movement and more transitions. This was also exemplified in the Safe Dynamics White Paper. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 7:18:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RustedAce]
[#12]
Why are we talking about 5?
It’s 7 to 10. Always. 
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Posted: 2/1/2023 8:29:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Crushing grip is absolutely important regardless of other factors. Several factors can influence performance at the same time. It’s not like you can have great equipment and shitty technique and still expect to perform. Exactly zero people are suggesting that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By BaconFat: Nope, better grip is more important Crushing grip is absolutely important regardless of other factors. Several factors can influence performance at the same time. It’s not like you can have great equipment and shitty technique and still expect to perform. Exactly zero people are suggesting that. @45-Seventy.....ignoring BaconFat because he is an incessant troll....talk to me about a "crushing grip". I think that is my main problem. When I get into the 4th or 5th rapid shot, I know damned well it is jumping around. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 8:39:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: I did a bunch of Mozambique Drill with various guns this weekend to compare the speed and accuracy of different guns and calibers. Started at a low ready to take the draw out of the equation. Gun pointed down at a point 3 feet in front of the shooter. You had to shoot as fast as you could call the shots. So no fling the gun up and hoping for the best. Target 5 yards fastest gun to slowest. Open gun 9 major Limited gun 40 1911 Dagger 407C Sig Macro with 407K Sig Macro with a laser Hellcat 407k. The difference between the fastest to slowest was avg .24s With fast guns being below a second and slowest just above. It would seem that the size of the gun and the ability to work the trigger quickly had a bigger impact than the sighting system. Hey neat! You can post like a normal boy. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 8:56:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TradWoodsman: @45-Seventy.....ignoring BaconFat because he is an incessant troll....talk to me about a "crushing grip". I think that is my main problem. When I get into the 4th or 5th rapid shot, I know damned well it is jumping around. That’s where all of your recoil mitigation and control comes from. Think of it this way… you know those grip strength devices that look like a nutcracker? That’s how you should be holding the gun, particularly with the support hand. A crushing grip but not so hard that you’re trembling. You can use your chest and shoulder muscles to effectively apply further pressure equally from both sides into the top of your grip. However, it needs to be neutral… not pushing down or off to one side. You should be worn out at the end of a dryfire session or running drills. If you feel like you can hold a gun like that all day, you’re not gripping hard enough. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2023 8:57:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TradWoodsman: @45-Seventy.....ignoring BaconFat because he is an incessant troll....talk to me about a "crushing grip". I think that is my main problem. When I get into the 4th or 5th rapid shot, I know damned well it is jumping around. He'll just tell you to shoot 9mm instead of .45, because, why train to be better when you can just make everything easier to do. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 9:06:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TradWoodsman: @45-Seventy.....ignoring BaconFat because he is an incessant troll....talk to me about a "crushing grip". I think that is my main problem. When I get into the 4th or 5th rapid shot, I know damned well it is jumping around. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TradWoodsman: Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By BaconFat: Nope, better grip is more important Crushing grip is absolutely important regardless of other factors. Several factors can influence performance at the same time. It’s not like you can have great equipment and shitty technique and still expect to perform. Exactly zero people are suggesting that. @45-Seventy.....ignoring BaconFat because he is an incessant troll....talk to me about a "crushing grip". I think that is my main problem. When I get into the 4th or 5th rapid shot, I know damned well it is jumping around. I know you didn’t ask me but I heard a good description of a proper grip awhile back. Guy said to envision yourself cracking walnuts one against the other in each palm with the support hand being the firmer of the two. Made more sense to me with that description. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 9:11:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: He'll just tell you to shoot 9mm instead of .45, because, why train to be better when you can just make everything easier to do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By TradWoodsman: @45-Seventy.....ignoring BaconFat because he is an incessant troll....talk to me about a "crushing grip". I think that is my main problem. When I get into the 4th or 5th rapid shot, I know damned well it is jumping around. He'll just tell you to shoot 9mm instead of .45, because, why train to be better when you can just make everything easier to do. Awww man I posted too soon. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2023 9:13:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macman37: Awww man I posted too soon. That's ok, it can happen to anyone. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 9:59:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: That’s where all of your recoil mitigation and control comes from. Think of it this way… you know those grip strength devices that look like a nutcracker? That’s how you should be holding the gun, particularly with the support hand. A crushing grip but not so hard that you’re trembling. You can use your chest and shoulder muscles to effectively apply further pressure equally from both sides into the top of your grip. However, it needs to be neutral… not pushing down or off to one side. You should be worn out at the end of a dryfire session or running drills. If you feel like you can hold a gun like that all day, you’re not gripping hard enough. Spot on. At least, that’s how I try to achieve a solid grip. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 10:02:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: He'll just tell you to shoot 9mm instead of .45, because, why train to be better when you can just make everything easier to do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By TradWoodsman: @45-Seventy.....ignoring BaconFat because he is an incessant troll....talk to me about a "crushing grip". I think that is my main problem. When I get into the 4th or 5th rapid shot, I know damned well it is jumping around. He'll just tell you to shoot 9mm instead of .45, because, why train to be better when you can just make everything easier to do. Sit down boy, The adults are talking |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 10:02:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: That’s where all of your recoil mitigation and control comes from. Think of it this way… you know those grip strength devices that look like a nutcracker? That’s how you should be holding the gun, particularly with the support hand. A crushing grip but not so hard that you’re trembling. You can use your chest and shoulder muscles to effectively apply further pressure equally from both sides into the top of your grip. However, it needs to be neutral… not pushing down or off to one side. You should be worn out at the end of a dryfire session or running drills. If you feel like you can hold a gun like that all day, you’re not gripping hard enough. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By TradWoodsman: @45-Seventy.....ignoring BaconFat because he is an incessant troll....talk to me about a "crushing grip". I think that is my main problem. When I get into the 4th or 5th rapid shot, I know damned well it is jumping around. That’s where all of your recoil mitigation and control comes from. Think of it this way… you know those grip strength devices that look like a nutcracker? That’s how you should be holding the gun, particularly with the support hand. A crushing grip but not so hard that you’re trembling. You can use your chest and shoulder muscles to effectively apply further pressure equally from both sides into the top of your grip. However, it needs to be neutral… not pushing down or off to one side. You should be worn out at the end of a dryfire session or running drills. If you feel like you can hold a gun like that all day, you’re not gripping hard enough. This right here...thanks.... |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 10:07:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 45-Seventy]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: He'll just tell you to shoot 9mm instead of .45, because, why train to be better when you can just make everything easier to do. I shoot Single Stack, too. 🤷🏻♂️ You can actually be better and make things easier. Imagine the possibilities. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 10:10:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macman37: Awww man I posted too soon. Lol |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 10:28:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: I shoot Single Stack, too. 🤷🏻♂️ You can actually be better and make things easier. Imagine the possibilities. Nah, he'd rather bitch about it making things easier while trying to not bring attention to his flared magwell... |
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2023 10:34:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TradWoodsman: Sit down boy, The adults are talking Lol You had to ask how to hold a gun. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 10:58:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By S-1: Maybe I'm not tracking here, but aren't 1911's one of the easiest pistols to run? They absolutely are. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2023 1:47:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: No, it matters. The more shooting you’re doing including transitions and the more you’re moving the more it matters. This is what the "muh eyeurn seheights" crowd usually fails to appreciate. The simplicity and speed advantage when facing moving and/or multiple targets, with or without required shooter movement. It's a huge advantage. For basically the same reason the RDS was and is an advantage on rifles. And so it was with the RDS for rifles, there are now mRDS science deniers for pistols. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:39:42 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: This is what the "muh eyeurn seheights" crowd usually fails to appreciate. The simplicity and speed advantage when facing moving and/or multiple targets, with or without required shooter movement. It's a huge advantage. For basically the same reason the RDS was and is an advantage on rifles. And so it was with the RDS for rifles, there are now mRDS science deniers for pistols. Nope, it is not a huge advantage inside 10-12 yards. That is why the world record time on a stage where all the targets are close, like smoke and hope are .001s different between CO and production. But pendulum, where all but one target is 18 yards, there is a .4s spread in time between Production and CO. Same with a stage like 5 to Go, it's almost a second difference. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 8:58:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Lol You had to ask how to hold a gun. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By TradWoodsman: Sit down boy, The adults are talking Lol You had to ask how to hold a gun. Yeah not exactly. I have been carrying a 1911 since 1981. I shoot and compete more than the average old man. Yet I am unlike you, whereas my ego allows me to actually ask questions and improve. Eat a bag of dicks. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:50:05 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Nope, it is not a huge advantage inside 10-12 yards. That is why the world record time on a stage where all the targets are close, like smoke and hope are .001s different between CO and production. But pendulum, where all but one target is 18 yards, there is a .4s spread in time between Production and CO. Same with a stage like 5 to Go, it's almost a second difference. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: This is what the "muh eyeurn seheights" crowd usually fails to appreciate. The simplicity and speed advantage when facing moving and/or multiple targets, with or without required shooter movement. It's a huge advantage. For basically the same reason the RDS was and is an advantage on rifles. And so it was with the RDS for rifles, there are now mRDS science deniers for pistols. Nope, it is not a huge advantage inside 10-12 yards. That is why the world record time on a stage where all the targets are close, like smoke and hope are .001s different between CO and production. But pendulum, where all but one target is 18 yards, there is a .4s spread in time between Production and CO. Same with a stage like 5 to Go, it's almost a second difference. Stop, you're going to kill the thread. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:56:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TradWoodsman: Yeah not exactly. I have been carrying a 1911 since 1981. I shoot and compete more than the average old man. Yet I am unlike you, whereas my ego allows me to actually ask questions and improve. Eat a bag of dicks. lol. 42 years to figure out how to hold a gun....slow and steady progress. Let me help you out before it's time for pudding and Matlock reruns. Make sure your depends aren't caught in your holster when you're learning to draw. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:58:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BaconFat]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGE: So you're agreeing that red dots are a huge advantage. Stop, you're going to kill the thread. Wow, your reading comprehension is weaker than Tardwoody grip |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 10:47:20 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: lol. 42 years to figure out how to hold a gun....slow and steady progress. Let me help you out before it's time for pudding and Matlock reruns. Make sure your depends aren't caught in your holster when you're learning to draw. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By TradWoodsman: Yeah not exactly. I have been carrying a 1911 since 1981. I shoot and compete more than the average old man. Yet I am unlike you, whereas my ego allows me to actually ask questions and improve. Eat a bag of dicks. lol. 42 years to figure out how to hold a gun....slow and steady progress. Let me help you out before it's time for pudding and Matlock reruns. Make sure your depends aren't caught in your holster when you're learning to draw. I love meeting guys like you in person. It's always comical. 
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MO, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2023 11:05:33 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: lol. 42 years to figure out how to hold a gun....slow and steady progress. Let me help you out before it's time for pudding and Matlock reruns. Make sure your depends aren't caught in your holster when you're learning to draw. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By TradWoodsman: Yeah not exactly. I have been carrying a 1911 since 1981. I shoot and compete more than the average old man. Yet I am unlike you, whereas my ego allows me to actually ask questions and improve. Eat a bag of dicks. lol. 42 years to figure out how to hold a gun....slow and steady progress. Let me help you out before it's time for pudding and Matlock reruns. Make sure your depends aren't caught in your holster when you're learning to draw.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 11:14:13 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RustedAce: Why are we talking about 5? It’s 7 to 10. Always. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47980/d48e96a3bfb8fa7b5087fb4b30e8cf61_copy-2647044.jpg The only range. The range of antiquity and of the future. The forever range. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 11:34:12 AM EDT
[#37]
This thread
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:41:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGE: Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By cheeks: One must master the fundamentals of iron sights. What if I told you a red dot will improve your skill level with irons? Red dots is what let's you free your mind. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:45:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HRoark87: This thread It’s a wild ride, isn’t it? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2023 11:03:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Nope, it is not a huge advantage inside 10-12 yards. That is why the world record time on a stage where all the targets are close, like smoke and hope are .001s different between CO and production. But pendulum, where all but one target is 18 yards, there is a .4s spread in time between Production and CO. Same with a stage like 5 to Go, it's almost a second difference. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BaconFat: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: This is what the "muh eyeurn seheights" crowd usually fails to appreciate. The simplicity and speed advantage when facing moving and/or multiple targets, with or without required shooter movement. It's a huge advantage. For basically the same reason the RDS was and is an advantage on rifles. And so it was with the RDS for rifles, there are now mRDS science deniers for pistols. Nope, it is not a huge advantage inside 10-12 yards. That is why the world record time on a stage where all the targets are close, like smoke and hope are .001s different between CO and production. But pendulum, where all but one target is 18 yards, there is a .4s spread in time between Production and CO. Same with a stage like 5 to Go, it's almost a second difference. That may be true for the specific case of close up targets at competition, but that wasn't really my point... Competition is usually shooting stationary targets and Or targets with predictable movements. Shooter movement is typically pre planned, rehearsed and simple to execute (for safety and other good reasons). The shooters are also very well prepared, and trained for exactly what they are doing. A defensive shoot is potentially quite different and much more complex \ dangerous. The RDS is a tremendous advantage. Just as it is on a combat / patrol rifle. People can move around, in ways that make them much harder to shoot. That's why most gun fights have way more misses than hits. And that's where your RDS, whether on a pistol or rifle, will benefit you the most. You get a much better appreciation for this during force on force training, than at competition. And no I'm not criticizing competition. I think it's great and valuable for training. It's as valuable as practicing blocking and tackling drills for football. It's just different and possibly less complex than the big championship game. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 12:37:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RustedAce]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: A defensive shoot is potentially quite different and much more complex \ dangerous. The RDS is a tremendous advantage. Just as it is on a combat / patrol rifle. People can move around, in ways that make them much harder to shoot. That's why most gun fights have way more misses than hits. And that's where your RDS, whether on a pistol or rifle, will benefit you the most. You get a much better appreciation for this during force on force training, than at competition. Yep. The main reason I went all dot was after force on force with each. You moving, them moving, having to see hands, see threats, rather just have magic floating dot and no irons to line up. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 6:24:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RattleCanAR]
[#42]
RD all the things when you are old and blind.
Gotta get some suppressor height sights. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 6:49:33 PM EDT
[#43]
Do any of the Holosun closed emitter models use an RMR footprint?
I Wouldn’t mind playing with one, but all my stuff is cut for RMRs and I’m not going to buy a new gun to do it. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 7:00:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RattleCanAR]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx: Do any of the Holosun closed emitter models use an RMR footprint? I Wouldn’t mind playing with one, but all my stuff is cut for RMRs and I’m not going to buy a new gun to do it. This 509T does. It has a plate that fits the RMR cut. I had to remove a high spot at the screw holes to get a completely flat fit. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 7:49:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: This 509T does. It has a plate the fits the RMR cut. I had to remove a high spot at the screw holes to get a completely flat fit. Thank you. Follow up question, is the 509T (or similar) the exact same dimensions or smaller than an RMR? I have a couple guns that were custom cut any even a few thousandths is going to be a no go. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 8:10:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx: Thank you. Follow up question, is the 509T (or similar) the exact same dimensions or smaller than an RMR? I have a couple guns that were custom cut any even a few thousandths is going to be a no go. Custom cut for a specific optic? Unknown. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 8:24:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Custom cut for a specific optic? Unknown. Yeah, the guy I used cuts them in pretty tight.  Attached FileIf anyone else has input on whether I could shove a Holosun in there, it would be welcome. I suppose I could always throw it on the FNX. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:53:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Motor05]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By witchking777: Curious, I'm getting a G45 that will eventually get the Radian Ramjet as well as the new Guardian that fits the Holosun EPS. I currently have an unmounted 407co x2 that I was considering putting on a FCD plate and running, however the Steiner MPS, ACRO P2, and Holosun EPS have all caught my eye. Does anyone have any insight on these choices as to what will be the best of the three? Thanks. @witchking777 I had Leupold DPP's on a Glock 45 and two Shadow Systems DR920's and was fairly happy with them. I particularly liked the fact that I didn't have to remove them to change the batteries. I did notice the dot washed out easily, even on the highest setting, on light colored targets in bright sunlight. Like I said, I was "fairly happy" with them, but was never crazy about them. Then the battery door latch flew off of one of them while firing. I found the battery, but the latch was history... it's at Leupold as we speak, getting repaired. Then I saw the Acro P2. I've had several different Aimpoints on rifles in the past, never had an issue with them and loved the battery life and simplicity in operation. So I ordered one, to take the place of the aforementioned DPP that's in the shop. I took it for a test drive and was immediately hooked Pros -It's much brighter than the Leupolds. -I can still change the battery without removing the optic. -Very simple operation with few moving parts. Cons -Looks like a mailbox on your slide. -More expensive. New P2s are selling for around $850. MSRP is "only" $599, but no one has them in stock. All of mine were bought used, LNIB, for much less than new ones are selling for. -Battery life on the P1 was very un-aimpoint like. Reports were dismal. My lone P1 is a back up to my back up, and I have plenty of batteries... and it's not left on, so I'm not worried about it. I have no experience with the Holosuns or the MPS. I do have a Steiner P4XI, and love it. From this  Attached FileTo this, and I haven't looked back... no regerts.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:10:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Motor05: @witchking777 I had Leupold DPP's on a Glock 45 and two Shadow Systems DR920's and was fairly happy with them. I particularly liked the fact that I didn't have to remove them to change the batteries. I did notice the dot washed out easily, even on the highest setting, on light colored targets in bright sunlight. Like I said, I was "fairly happy" with them, but was never crazy about them. Then the battery door latch flew off of one of them while firing. I found the battery, but the latch was history... it's at Leupold as we speak, getting repaired. Then I saw the Acro P2. I've had several different Aimpoints on rifles in the past, never had an issue with them and loved the battery life and simplicity in operation. So I ordered one, to take the place of the aforementioned DPP that's in the shop. I took it for a test drive and was immediately hooked Pros -It's much brighter than the Leupolds. -I can still change the battery without removing the optic. -Very simple operation with few moving parts. Cons -Looks like a mailbox on your slide. -More expensive. New P2s are selling for around $850. MSRP is "only" $599, but no one has them in stock. All of mine were bought used, LNIB, for much less than new ones are selling for. -Battery life on the P1 was very un-aimpoint like. Reports were dismal. My lone P1 is a back up to my back up, and I have plenty of batteries... and it's not left on, so I'm not worried about it. I have no experience with the Holosuns or the MPS. I do have a Steiner P4XI, and love it. From this https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/60767/Screenshot_20230203_211913_Gallery_jpg-2697014.JPG To this, and I haven't looked back... no regerts. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/60767/Screenshot_20230203_211938_Gallery_jpg-2697015.JPG Which model DPP? I’m not a huge fan of them but I’ve never had the problem of them washing out. I still use a Gen 1 7.5 MOA delta on my Steel Challenge RFPO gun. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:20:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Which model DPP? I’m not a huge fan of them but I’ve never had the problem of them washing out. I still use a Gen 1 7.5 MOA delta on my Steel Challenge RFPO gun. The new 6 MOA, non NV model. For the sake of clarity, for my old eyes, the Leupolds were much harder to see in bright sunlight, at full power, than the Aimpoints. I could still see the dot, but not nearly as clearly as with the Acro. |
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