I did.  Right from the Apostle’s Epistle to the Romans, which is why I asked you to explain your position.

I'll let Jesus explain again

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

That wasn't something I made up.

after the fact in the middle of fulfilling the Prophesy. Jesus knew the arrest had to happen.

why would Jesus allow Peter to be armed with a sword before hand?

What ever you think you should protect your family and others if you can.  Laying down your life for another.  Jesus did and I know we are not Jesus.  But that’s how you learn from the Bible how to live your life.  Even non-believers can use the principles in the Bible to live a very good life.

If you get a big Bible you can hollow it out and hide a pistol in the hole.

You could wrap the cover around a ballistic plate.

Also can be used as an impact weapon.

The title says the Bible and self defense so I'm just taking a different approach.

Yes, if we are turning the Bible into a bunch of quotes or tweets, we can do that.  We can bend it to whatever human desire we have.  However, if you look at it with context, it's pretty obvious slavery is immoral.

My interpretation of it.  They show up to execute you because you’re a Christian, go along quietly.  They show up to rob your home and do harm to your family, unleash everything you have on them.

Luke 22:36
And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his cloak and buy one.

written for prophesy and relevant for self defense.
Who defends the defenseless if we lay down our arms.
For us to allow evil unanswered is for us to disobey God.

Would you watch your wife get raped and do nothing?
If you said yes, would that be biblical?

Pretty sure the Amalekites have been on the receiving end of God's pacifism

To fulfill the prophecy? Jews carrying swords would have been enough.  Jesus didn’t tell Peter to use the sword.  

Jesus also rebuked the sons of Zebedee and named them Sons of Thunder for wanting to rain fire down on  the Samaritans that had insulted them.

John MacArthur - What is the Biblical view of Christian Self Defense?

you are picking and choosing.

If Jesus felt there was an issue with Peter carrying/possibly using the sword- he would have chastized him and never let him carry it. Jesus knew full well that Peter rocked a sword.  Jesus even spoke of BEING ARMED WITH ONE.

Jesus only chastized Peter during the assault due to the fact that Jesus knew he had to die for us and to fulfill the Prophesy. it was that divine moment.

Jesus rebuked the sons of Zebedee because of words- not physical harm.

stop picking and choosing like a liberal.

you are being obtuse in your thoughts.

The teachings of Christ narrow down what a man must defend. The few things worth defending should be defended.  

The answer is that English translations typically suck. English and Greek do not necessarily correspond that well.

From the Christian Standard Bible, Matthew 5:39:

"But I tell you, don't resist^D an evildoer..."

See that D in superscript? That's a translation footnote. I wonder what it says:

^D5:39 Or don't set yourself against, or don't retaliate against

That would seem to add clarity...

It was a given you had the right to self defense. And you had the right to go to the authorities to file a complaint requiring judicial judgement and action.

Jesus never said to do away with law and order, jails, or even punishment. He prayed for prisoners and not to let the guilty go free.

The greatest confinement is being a prisoner to our sinful nature.

Jesus taught against hate and revenge while teaching faith, patience and love.

The way that Christians are to deal with those who oppress them is to show that the Light of Christ lives in and through you so that those who do not live by the love of Christ will have their hearts touched and then come to Him.

Do unto others as you would have them do to you...

And if I ever become crazy, or angry, or just plain deranged enough to attack an innocent person and attempt to kill them, then I hope that someone has the willingness and ability to stop me, even if that means killing me. They would be preventing me from committing the horrible sin of murder.

You can, and should, pray for your enemies. You can turn the other cheek. But turning the other cheek is a reference to a slap or punch, a non lethal attack which mostly insults your dignity. Jesus didn't say to let a man rape your wife and offer him no resistance Jesus didn't say that if a man tries to kill you that you should let him and not fight back.

I see my signature in use in a GD thread. Never thought I'd see the day.

Maybe it wasn't an accident that the example used, a slap on the cheek, is a (painful) insult, not actually bodily harm?

You notice it doesn't say if someone tries to kill you that you should let them.  

Jesus rebuked the use of a sword by his followers to defend HIM against being siezed and put to death.

He counseled that his followers were not to resist being put to death by religious authorities FOR PREACHING THE GOSPEL.

When slapped, they were to offer the other cheek--but slapping is an INSULT, not a deadly threat.

If your analysis is correct Jesus' followers would never have had swords in the first place--but they DID have swords--to protect themselves against garden-variety shitbags while travelling.

Only a moron would think that Jesus would think that it was marvellous and somehow holy to FAIL to protect the ones you love against common predators.

Really?  Find me a rationalization to lie, or commit adultry.

If you think Jesus is a pacifist, you haven’t read the book of Revelation and see what he does when he returns to earth.

I see “Turning the other cheek” as a sign of strength, not weakness.

“Is that all you got??”

Think about smacking someone in the jaw, and they turn their head and just stare back at you.

Nothing I’ve read says Christians are supposed to be the world’s punching bag, OT or NT.

And yes, the Old Testament is just as valid as the new.
All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness;
2 Timothy 3:16

ALL of it.

Interesting. The Jew fought some big wars where nothing was left alive after the Jews left but the last war after Christ was resurrected in 70 AD they fought to the last man woman and child. Scattered as a nation until 1948. The Jews fought.

Well put. A lot of people get this idea that Jesus was some peacenik long haired hippy that wanted everybody to sing kumbaya and chill.

We forget about the lion of Judah stuff, knocking tables over and whipping people, and now Christians are supposed to get walked all over like a door mat.

Only because it was His mission to be taken and crucified. Not because it is wrong to defend yourself. You must think God changed his character.

Yes,  you are wrong in your understanding.  The ten commandments is still operative. The temporal parts of the law were fulfilled, thus it was not necessary to do animal sacrifice, etc.

I’ve never read any scriptures which say to just let evil kill you, to be weak and submissive to the powers of evil. To just let evil do as it pleases.

A weak man cannot be a good man because there is no virtue in it.
To be strong, to be dangerous and in control is a good man.
The meek shall inherited the earth, not the weak.
Not the same.

Appropriate here imo.

The OT was pointing the way to Christ. Gospels was the life of Christ. The NT was the path forward. Christ came not to abolish the law, but fulfill it.

Don’t forget David was a man after God’s own heart.

Revelation 19:13-15
King James Version
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

If you think Jesus was meek and mild think again.
He cleansed the temple twice. Drove out the wicked.

All Christians are under the law.

NOT a believer myself but I think, like much of the Bible, you can interpret those passages in many ways. For instance, I read that as a compelling argument against participating in “road rage” and other petty responses to a perceived slight. I.e.; Grow-up and learn to control yourself.

I believe you are incorrect on a few counts.

At the last supper, Jesus instructed his disciples to carry swords with them for protection because He wasn't going to be around much longer. Later that evening in the garden, Jesus was with his disciples when Judas showed up with Jewish authorities (who were armed of course) to betray Him. When Judas gave the signal who Jesus was (signified by a kiss), the authorities moved in to arrest Him. At that time, Peter drew his sword and cut the ear off one of those sent to arrest Jesus. Jesus then instructed Peter to put his sword back in its sheath/scabbard because the arrest and subsequent death sentence was the entire reason for Him being there in the first place.

After telling Peter to his sword away, Jesus then said the line, "those who live by the sword shall die by the sword." This was not directed at Peter (remember, Jesus had earlier that night told his disciples they should carry swords for their protection), but at the armed authorities who were sent to arrest (and ultimately kill) an innocent man.

That is the full context of what Jesus said and why.

TL;DR: Jesus didn't tell Peter to get rid of his sword or to otherwise dispose of it, He merely told him to put it away. The "live by the sword" comment was directed at the armed authorities who were using their arms and authority to persecute innocence.

God killed an entire Egytian Army following the Jews through the water he separated in the Red Sea.  Protection of the innocent.

this.
written very well.

Wow where do you go to church?

Yes, you are incorrect.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Hebrews 13:8

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

There is a time for it, yes.

No, you are not condemned by the Law, you are justified by Christ's sacrifice.

Yep.

Living by the sword can also mean choosing a life of violence, being the aggressor, the attacker, and not the defender.

And David spake to the men that stood by him, saying, What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine, and taketh away the reproach from Israel? for who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?

....and when all else fails, the New Testament will stop a 22lr ...and much more of you back it up with a phone book.


(Yes, a GD answer to a religious thread. If you dont like it, why'd ya post it ? Praise Jibbers)

You can do anything you want, and feel righteous about it because you have the blessing of a god. All you have to do is look hard enough for an appropriate verse.

I have a different view on this. Jesus rebuked Peter for using the sword in defense of Him because it would hinder prophecy of His ultimate sacrifice at Calvary but Jesus also said to sell what you have and buy a sword in Luke . If Jesus didn't want His disciples carrying weapons why didn't He tell them to put them away before this moment? Jesus explains this  "For I say unto you, that this is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. " refers to Calvary and being crucified with the two criminals and not His disciples.

Luke 22:36-38 King James Version (KJV)

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Then there is the argument to "Love one another" but what if they are trying to kill me. Read this scripture:

Galatians 5:14-15 King James

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Here are two scriptures on self defense:

Psalm 82:3-4 King James Version (KJV)

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

1 Timothy 5:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Is not protecting your loved ones or yourself apply here? I think it does.

You should read the story of Nehemiah in rebuilding Jerusalem:

Nehemiah 4:16-18 King James Version (KJV)

16 And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my servants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons; and the rulers were behind all the house of Judah.
17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.
18 For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me.

More from Jesus on the topic:

Luke 11:21 King James Version (KJV)

21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace

Matthew 12:29 King James Version (KJV)

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Here's some scriptures from the OT on the matter:

Psalm 18:34-36 King James Version (KJV)

34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.
35 Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.
36 Thou hast enlarged my steps under me, that my feet did not slip.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-10 King James Version (KJV)

1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
9 What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth?
10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.

Ezekiel 38:7 King James

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.


2 Samuel 1:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

1 Kings 8:44-45 King James Version (KJV)

44 If thy people go out to battle against their enemy, whithersoever thou shalt send them, and shall pray unto the Lord toward the city which thou hast chosen, and toward the house that I have built for thy name:
45 Then hear thou in heaven their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause.

My motto is to Trust in God and Pray in Everything but also be prepared for if my light goes out then how can I share the Good News!

Jesus was numbered falsely with the transgressors.  If carrying a sword was sin, Jesus would not have instructed his disciples to do so, as that would make him a sinner.  He rebuked a specific use of the sword.

I don't consider myself a Christian anymore and this point is one reason why. People just justify what they believe 1 or 2 scriptures at a time. They make their own God.

Remember your allowed to flip over tables and chase people with a whip...