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Posted: 9/25/2022 1:48:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't remember that; I wasn't into guns back then. I'm into guns now. The P320 is self-discharging now. If a Glock ever did that now, everyone and their dog would scream about it. That would be you in the middle of the night. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 1:49:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Butternut two videos have been posted for you to watch. Watch them and you will get the answer you seek. These are great videos. Both in video quality and technical explanation. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 2:28:55 PM EDT
[#3]
My theory stands: Incorrect holsters (P226 or P229 Safariland holsters) were utilized in the incidents involving P320s discharging while holstered. There are many agencies who switched from P226/P229 to P320 pistols when they ditched .40 S&W and went to 9mm. That means there are plenty of older P-series holsters still floating around the PDs. The P320 fits in the P226/P229 holster; however, just because it fits doesn't mean it should be done. The P320 does not seat all the way into a P22X holster, but it sits far enough in to actuate the locking mechanisms. This causes the trigger shoe of the P320 to be just slightly exposed.
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Posted: 9/25/2022 2:56:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Pic of a P320 Carry in a Safariland P229R holster. Pretty easy for part of a jacket or something else to reach that trigger shoe while holstered.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 3:15:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Work guns and competition guns are two completely different animals. Competition guns are running on the edge of being barely safe enough, with more intensive cleaning, maintenance and parts replacement schedules. Lightened slides, 2.5# triggers, and speed holsters. Work guns need to be dead on reliable with all brands of ammo, choke down hundreds if not thousands of rounds between cleanings, and need to not go off when dropped, or jarred in a fight or a vehicle crash. And built to the lowest common denominator, because 90% of armed professionals don’t know or care enough to deal with a finicky gun, and just need it to go bang, two times per year during their struggle to qualify with it. There’s a reason military and police aren’t typically running raced out CZs and 1911s, but Glocks, S&W M&P series, and now upgraded Sigs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If this were actually a problem you’d see it in the competitive shooting community where 320’s are extremely popular and people are burning far more rounds than LE. It’s not an issue. Work guns and competition guns are two completely different animals. Competition guns are running on the edge of being barely safe enough, with more intensive cleaning, maintenance and parts replacement schedules. Lightened slides, 2.5# triggers, and speed holsters. Work guns need to be dead on reliable with all brands of ammo, choke down hundreds if not thousands of rounds between cleanings, and need to not go off when dropped, or jarred in a fight or a vehicle crash. And built to the lowest common denominator, because 90% of armed professionals don’t know or care enough to deal with a finicky gun, and just need it to go bang, two times per year during their struggle to qualify with it. There’s a reason military and police aren’t typically running raced out CZs and 1911s, but Glocks, S&W M&P series, and now upgraded Sigs. You're not wrong, but think about what you said and how it relates to what 45-Seventy said. Comp guns are running on the edge of barely safe (according to your post, I don't agree but OK) and they're still not shooting by themselves. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 3:16:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pic of a P320 Carry in a Safariland P229R holster. Pretty easy for part of a jacket or something else to reach that trigger shoe while holstered. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/419235/p320inp229_jpg-2538997.JPG Very interesting. And totally not the gun's or manufacturer's - or even Safariland's - fault. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 3:57:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very interesting. And totally not the gun's or manufacturer's - or even Safariland's - fault. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pic of a P320 Carry in a Safariland P229R holster. Pretty easy for part of a jacket or something else to reach that trigger shoe while holstered. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/419235/p320inp229_jpg-2538997.JPG Very interesting. And totally not the gun's or manufacturer's - or even Safariland's - fault. More and more proof the problem is the person. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:12:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More and more proof the problem is the person. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pic of a P320 Carry in a Safariland P229R holster. Pretty easy for part of a jacket or something else to reach that trigger shoe while holstered. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/419235/p320inp229_jpg-2538997.JPG Very interesting. And totally not the gun's or manufacturer's - or even Safariland's - fault. More and more proof the problem is the person. Any holster that is molded for WML is going to be susceptible to items getting into the trigger guard. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:19:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re not entirely wrong. Majority of cops are barely competent with guns. Most have no interest, and departments don’t dedicate enough mandatory training to overcome that. It’s an issue of money and allotted training time. With constant policy, equity and diversity, de escalation, sexual harassment, cyber security, etc. trainings which are mandatory, there’s barely any time for firearms, tactics, hand to hand, driving, or even an annual law update. Most cops that aren’t dedicated on their own time, or their own dime, will fire their issued firearms exactly the amount of times they need to, for mandatory qualifications. In some places, that’s about two boxes of ammo per year. Competition guns are less safe, even for competition shooters. That’s why they’re primarily used in competition, and not carried outside of a flat range, by the same competition shooters, unless it’s some sort of IDPA or production division gun. Race guns, like race cars, are for racing, not going about your daily life. Guns built for duty, to live in an exposed holster, in an out of the car, in all weather conditions, are built with a different purpose in mind. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Work guns and competition guns are two completely different animals. Competition guns are running on the edge of being barely safe enough, with more intensive cleaning, maintenance and parts replacement schedules. Lightened slides, 2.5# triggers, and speed holsters. Work guns need to be dead on reliable with all brands of ammo, choke down hundreds if not thousands of rounds between cleanings, and need to not go off when dropped, or jarred in a fight or a vehicle crash. And built to the lowest common denominator, because 90% of armed professionals don’t know or care enough to deal with a finicky gun, and just need it to go bang, two times per year during their struggle to qualify with it. There’s a reason military and police aren’t typically running raced out CZs and 1911s, but Glocks, S&W M&P series, and now upgraded Sigs. So based off of what you are saying, competition guns are less safe. Because they are less safe, competition shooters do not experience these ND the police do with a safer version of the same gun. Again, this further points to incompetence of the individual in the police dept. You’re not entirely wrong. Majority of cops are barely competent with guns. Most have no interest, and departments don’t dedicate enough mandatory training to overcome that. It’s an issue of money and allotted training time. With constant policy, equity and diversity, de escalation, sexual harassment, cyber security, etc. trainings which are mandatory, there’s barely any time for firearms, tactics, hand to hand, driving, or even an annual law update. Most cops that aren’t dedicated on their own time, or their own dime, will fire their issued firearms exactly the amount of times they need to, for mandatory qualifications. In some places, that’s about two boxes of ammo per year. Competition guns are less safe, even for competition shooters. That’s why they’re primarily used in competition, and not carried outside of a flat range, by the same competition shooters, unless it’s some sort of IDPA or production division gun. Race guns, like race cars, are for racing, not going about your daily life. Guns built for duty, to live in an exposed holster, in an out of the car, in all weather conditions, are built with a different purpose in mind. Explain the Roland Special then. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 5:27:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given the numbers of pistols in circulation, the instances of these issues is too few to draw any conclusions. My sample size of one 2021 produced pistol has had no problems. Ohio highway patrol's sample size of a couple thousand pistols, have reported no negative results. The short answer is that you don't keep hearing about a lot of problems. You keep hearing about a few problems reported multiple times from different news postings and your mind interprets these as new problems because you read it again. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 6:02:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any holster that is molded for WML is going to be susceptible to items getting into the trigger guard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pic of a P320 Carry in a Safariland P229R holster. Pretty easy for part of a jacket or something else to reach that trigger shoe while holstered. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/419235/p320inp229_jpg-2538997.JPG Very interesting. And totally not the gun's or manufacturer's - or even Safariland's - fault. More and more proof the problem is the person. Any holster that is molded for WML is going to be susceptible to items getting into the trigger guard. Please refer to 14BoltFF's picture above as reference. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 10:35:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. My sample of 1 has been fine. My smaple size of 5 have been good to go. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 11:23:18 PM EDT
[#13]
I have 2 of the FCG and every size slide and frame. Honestly, I have never hand any issue with them in any configuration even after a lot of rounds through them.
My edc is a full size slide (with factory dot) on a Wilson frame with the apex trigger kit/flat trigger and absolutely love it. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 11:42:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what I'm getting out of everyone is: 1. Glocks also did this 30 years ago when safe-action tech was new. 2. Sigs aren't actually self-discharging, and the cops are full of it. I don't have a dog in this fight, but in reference to the police, I would say that people should be objective and remember that people do dumb shit all the time, up to and including NDs. That includes police officers. There are many videos of them committing NDs on video. Now imagine when there isn't any video. People can say whatever they want within reason to get out of trouble. People do that all the time because plenty of people are shitty and lack integrity, and unfortunately it forces one to be very skeptical. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 6:17:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have a dog in this fight, but in reference to the police, I would say that people should be objective and remember that people do dumb shit all the time, up to and including NDs. That includes police officers. There are many videos of them committing NDs on video. Now imagine when there isn't any video. People can say whatever they want within reason to get out of trouble. People do that all the time because plenty of people are shitty and lack integrity, and unfortunately it forces one to be very skeptical. That part in bold. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 6:30:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Anyone have any contact in the Texas DPS? I wonder if they are having any problems with their 320s. That is if they still issue them.
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Posted: 9/26/2022 6:41:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Until I see it duplicated in a controlled environment (like the drop issue) I'm going with user error.
i didn't follow the court case, so I'm not sure if testing came up. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 6:53:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, so you don't know what you don't know, and a literally handful of incidents out of hundreds of thousands of man hours carrying is somehow an epidemic. I have several glocks and sigs, none of which has ever fired without the trigger being pulled. Although, there is only one of those brands that will fire without the trigger being pulled, given the right conditions. Hint: it's not Glock. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 6:56:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Although, there is only one of those brands that will fire without the trigger being pulled, given the right conditions. Hint: it's not Glock. Another hint: what is glock leg and how did it gets that name? |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 6:59:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Explain the Roland Special then. That's the best way to turn a dead-nuts reliable G19 into a jammamatic POS. I've met the dude who invented the Roland Special. Very few dudes need the capabilities that dude can use. Also, it was made a for a very specific purpose, shooting +P 124 grain JHPs as fast and accurately as possible. Not riding in a duty holster and getting shot twice per year. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:07:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the best way to turn a dead-nuts reliable G19 into a jammamatic POS. I've met the dude who invented the Roland Special. Very few dudes need the capabilities that dude can use. Also, it was made a for a very specific purpose, shooting +P 124 grain JHPs as fast and accurately as possible. Not riding in a duty holster and getting shot twice per year. Reality has a different way of destroying ones opinions, such as yours.  I'll disregard your rebuttal now, you're welcome. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:20:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another hint: what is glock leg and how did it gets that name? That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:22:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reality has a different way of destroying ones opinions, such as yours. https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/warisboring.com/images/Roland-Special.jpg I'll disregard your rebuttal now, you're welcome. You just made my point for me. Some SF General, who is also a competitive shooter and has an unlimited ammo and equipment budget can make a Roland Special work. That's not most people. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:23:55 PM EDT
[#24]
I wanted an M18 since it does have the thumb safety. I’ve grown up with 1911s and BHPs, so thumbing off the safety is second nature.
I can get by with a Glock, but reholstering makes me nervous. But if an H&K USP or P30 is what I need to spring for, it is what it is… |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:28:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Another hint: what is glock leg and how did it gets that name? That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. That's a false decree, you don't get to disregard a valid question and use a fallacy afterwards. And because to that, WE are done here plainly put. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:33:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You just made my point for me. Some SF General, who is also a competitive shooter and has an unlimited ammo and equipment budget can make a Roland Special work. That's not most people. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Reality has a different way of destroying ones opinions, such as yours. https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/warisboring.com/images/Roland-Special.jpg I'll disregard your rebuttal now, you're welcome. You just made my point for me. Some SF General, who is also a competitive shooter and has an unlimited ammo and equipment budget can make a Roland Special work. That's not most people. No, you never had a point, just an opinion using an appeals to ignorance. Meanwhile you proved my point by trying to take what I was pointing out that destroyed a narrative and tried to make it yours by trying and failing to flip the script on me. As I said the last time, we are done because of your questionable integrity here. You could have said I was right but you had to instead skirt the issue and tried to gaslight it even. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:38:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Another hint: what is glock leg and how did it gets that name? That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. The issue with the G19 did not induce Glock leg. You bring up this negative sear angle on the 320, please show your work on the design flaw. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:47:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue with the G19 did not induce Glock leg. You bring up this negative sear angle on the 320, please show your work on the design flaw. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Another hint: what is glock leg and how did it gets that name? That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. The issue with the G19 did not induce Glock leg. You bring up this negative sear angle on the 320, please show your work on the design flaw. It's why I called him out on appeal to ignorance because of that. That design flaw on the 19 was not how Glock Leg got it's start or name from. I cannot trust a person to be honest with me in discussion when they try to pass off things in the hopes of fooling another that they're smarter than they actually are, and for underestimating their opponent. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:49:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue with the G19 did not induce Glock leg. You bring up this negative sear angle on the 320, please show your work on the design flaw. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Another hint: what is glock leg and how did it gets that name? That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. The issue with the G19 did not induce Glock leg. You bring up this negative sear angle on the 320, please show your work on the design flaw. His posts shows complete ignorance of how the P320 works. There is a second sear as a safety mechanism, as well as a striker block that requires the trigger to be pulled for the striker to fall. The drop issue was due to trigger movement. The sear has nothing to do with it. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:53:26 PM EDT
[#30]
They are in cops' holsters all over the nation with no issues. They aren't going off all the time. What has happened is cops and those who have them and carry them have and easy out if they ND with the guns. Because they had issues in the past it provides an easy excuse for the shooter who holstered with the strings from their windbreaker or shirt tail in the way and set them off.
320s, have a much shorter trigger pull than other striker fired guns. If you screw up with one there is a larger chance you will have an ND than compared to the .25 inch pretravel of a Glock. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:56:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's why I called him out on appeal to ignorance because it. That design flaw on the 19 was not how Glock Leg got it's start or name from. I cannot trust a person to be honest with me in discussion when they try to pass off things in the hopes of fooling another that they're smarter than they actually are, and for underestimating their opponent. Quote HistoryQuoted: It's why I called him out on appeal to ignorance because it. That design flaw on the 19 was not how Glock Leg got it's start or name from. I cannot trust a person to be honest with me in discussion when they try to pass off things in the hopes of fooling another that they're smarter than they actually are, and for underestimating their opponent. We can see he doesn't know what he is talking about so now he needs to see that he doesn't know. Quoted: His posts shows complete ignorance of how the P320 works. There is a second sear as a safety mechanism, as well as a striker block that requires the trigger to be pulled for the striker to fall. The drop issue was due to trigger movement. The sear has nothing to do with it. Correct but I am going after him for this negative sear angle so I must ask if the angle is supposed to be? (I already know the answer but does he?) Plus I along with someone else Posted two separate videos showing how the internals work. It would save A LOT of people from looking mighty foolish if they would stop spewing bullshit. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 7:57:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are in cops' holsters all over the nation with no issues. They aren't going off all the time. What has happened is cops and those who have them and carry them have and easy out if they ND with the guns. Because they had issues in the past it provides an easy excuse for the shooter who holstered with the strings from their windbreaker or shirt tail in the way and set them off. 320s, have a much shorter trigger pull than other striker fired guns. If you screw up with one there is a larger chance you will have an ND than compared to the .25 inch pretravel of a Glock. Less forgiving? Yes. But 1/4 inch ain't much extra forgiveness. But true it is more. Question is how forgiving will that drawstring be. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 8:02:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are in cops' holsters all over the nation with no issues. They aren't going off all the time. What has happened is cops and those who have them and carry them have and easy out if they ND with the guns. Because they had issues in the past it provides an easy excuse for the shooter who holstered with the strings from their windbreaker or shirt tail in the way and set them off. 320s, have a much shorter trigger pull than other striker fired guns. If you screw up with one there is a larger chance you will have an ND than compared to the .25 inch pretravel of a Glock. You mentioned before in another thread that the Langdon Striker Control Device will prevent an ND with a Glock. I am still baffled by this. Can you explain why? I hope that I am not coming across as ignorant as Glocks are my main jam so I'd like to hear and possibly be educated on this. @RattleCanAR |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 8:06:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Less forgiving? Yes. But 1/4 inch ain't much extra forgiveness. But true it is more. Question is how forgiving will that drawstring be. I will video the difference tomorrow, I have both Glocks and a 320. In the hand it is a substantial difference. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 8:09:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mentioned before in another thread that the Langdon Striker Control Device will prevent an ND with a Glock. I am still baffled by this. Can you explain why? I hope that I am not coming across as ignorant as Glocks are my main jam so I'd like to hear and possibly be educated on this. @RattleCanAR Wasn't me. I think you are are referring to the thing that you put your thumb on while holstering. I would point out. Holstering a gun should be slow and deliberate. It isn't something you go fast at and have no need too. |
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Posted: 9/26/2022 11:58:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Another hint: what is glock leg and how did it gets that name? That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. @vojta The issue with the G19 did not induce Glock leg. You bring up this negative sear angle on the 320, please show your work on the design flaw. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 1:26:22 AM EDT
[#37]
Most pistols use a firing pin block that moves up and down (a plunger). The Sig as I understand it pivots front to back instead, so it’s a combo of the same force that can slam fire the firing pin also being capable of jolting the firing pin block.
So no, the manual safety wouldn’t make a difference as it just stops the trigger function. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 2:00:14 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most pistols use a firing pin block that moves up and down (a plunger). The Sig as I understand it pivots front to back instead, so it’s a combo of the same force that can slam fire the firing pin also being capable of jolting the firing pin block. So no, the manual safety wouldn’t make a difference as it just stops the trigger function.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 2:10:23 AM EDT
[#39]
I’m a Glock guy for competition, classes, on and off duty 30 years now
I like the 320 but the controversy makes it easy for me to remain a Glock guy. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 2:25:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryGuess it’s not straight back but a swing arm firing pin block is still stupid compared to a plunger. 
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Posted: 9/27/2022 2:25:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m a Glock guy for competition, classes, on and off duty 30 years now I like the 320 but the controversy makes it easy for me to remain a Glock guy. I remember the same thing about Glocks before switching from a 1911. I also remember the same thing when switching from revolvers, in general, to autos, in general, in LE. Meh, controversy coming with a change is damn near a universal constant. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 2:26:33 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryI understand exactly how the P320 fire control unit and striker safety work. Your post still didn't make much sense. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 4:18:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most pistols use a firing pin block that moves up and down (a plunger). The Sig as I understand it pivots front to back instead, so it’s a combo of the same force that can slam fire the firing pin also being capable of jolting the firing pin block. So no, the manual safety wouldn’t make a difference as it just stops the trigger function. WRONG! Not even a little bit wrong but flat out wrong. If you watched the video I posted it explains the movement of the firing pin block and a jolt will not overcome it. The ONLY way that firing pin block gets moved is when the trigger is moved. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 4:41:45 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't think they are excluded. The manual safety prevents the movement of the trigger. The contention is that the P320 can discharge without the trigger being pulled. It depends what the problem is and I have yet to see someone detail what the alleged fault is.(the one that makes it "just go off" while in a holster) If, for example, the trigger and trigger bar are moving under intertia when dropped, thus bypassing all the safety mechanisms then a manual safety that blocks the trigger will stop this problem entirely. Whereas, if the problem is that there is enough play in the slide to FCG for that the striker can disengage from the sear then a manual safety that blocks the trigger will do nothing. But what is the problem supposed to be? |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 5:30:02 AM EDT
[#45]
The short answer is yes, a manual safety would have stopped basically all of these, both the old/solved "trigger moving when dropped" issue and the holstered ND issue from cops. Provided the safety was actually engaged, of course.
The old issue of the trigger moving when dropped is solved. The new issue is supposedly the guns going off in holsters, which is unrelated. The firing pin safety makes the gun going off in a properly designed and used holster (without a bit of shirt or something stuck in the holster, without the cop finger-fucking it under a table on video) impossible without the trigger being pulled back. The manual safety will prevent the trigger from being pulled back, stopping even the old drop-discharge issue. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 5:47:44 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The short answer is yes, a manual safety would have stopped basically all of these, both the old/solved "trigger moving when dropped" issue and the holstered ND issue from cops. Provided the safety was actually engaged, of course. The old issue of the trigger moving when dropped is solved. The new issue is supposedly the guns going off in holsters, which is unrelated. The firing pin safety makes the gun going off in a properly designed and used holster (without a bit of shirt or something stuck in the holster, without the cop finger-fucking it under a table on video) impossible without the trigger being pulled back. The manual safety will prevent the trigger from being pulled back, stopping even the old drop-discharge issue. So...operator error as usual? |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 6:26:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone have any contact in the Texas DPS? I wonder if they are having any problems with their 320s. That is if they still issue them. DPS currently issues the P320 in 9mm. Work with some troopers from time to time, I have heard of no issues. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 7:25:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Lots of people are giving up their P320s due to this.
I heard Sig was going to discontinue the P320 at the LGS the other day. That was why they made the P365 Macro. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:07:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: That's the best way to turn a dead-nuts reliable G19 into a jammamatic POS. I've met the dude who invented the Roland Special. Very few dudes need the capabilities that dude can use. Also, it was made a for a very specific purpose, shooting +P 124 grain JHPs as fast and accurately as possible. Not riding in a duty holster and getting shot twice per year. Quoted: That's a non-sequitur. Classic Sigs could fire if the operator failed to use the decock lever, using the trigger to lower the hammer, and the hammer was struck by another object or dropped. It's a design flaw, not a manufacturing defect, like occured with the 1993 G19s. Just like the design flaw in the negative sear angle and fully-cocked striker on the first few versions of the SIG 320. SIG can design safe, effective firearms, see the P365 series, but the 320 ain't it, depending on which version FCU you have. vojta, I’m not sure if you are intentionally saying things that are inaccurate or if you’re just ignorantly spewing crap. First, the Roland Special started off as a joke. It wasn’t designed to be some high speed race gun. If you met the dude he probably told you as much. Because he’s said so in interviews. Second, yes, if you pulled the trigger on a classic SIG and lowered the hammer manually, the firing pin block was deactivated. However, as soon as you let go, everything would go back to safeties engaged. The only way to accomplish what you claim is to pull the trigger and thumb the hammer, then shove it in a holster not made for the pistol and secure the snap strap across the back of the hammer without it rebounding to the intercept notch. This was done by a officer who then dropped the holster and it did discharge and kill him. But that is nowhere near a design flaw. It took a LOT of effort to bypass everything and keep it bypassed. Then you post something about a negative sear angle? I don’t even know what that is, and I don’t think you do either. The issue with the initial drop issue was if dropped at a perfect -30 degree angle, inertia allowed for the trigger to “pull” itself. I challenge you to knock your pistol off the table, or fumble a draw, or whatever and have it land in the exact orientation that allows the trigger to activate. Still, the issue did exist and was repeatable, and SIG made modifications to resolve it (and frankly made positive changes to the operation at the same time, moving to a more traditional design). I would ask that you stop posting things as fact when you have incorrect information. Someone might not know any better and actually believe you. You are how gun counter myths start and/or perpetuate. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 9:15:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WRONG! Not even a little bit wrong but flat out wrong. If you watched the video I posted it explains the movement of the firing pin block and a jolt will not overcome it. The ONLY way that firing pin block gets moved is when the trigger is moved. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Most pistols use a firing pin block that moves up and down (a plunger). The Sig as I understand it pivots front to back instead, so it’s a combo of the same force that can slam fire the firing pin also being capable of jolting the firing pin block. So no, the manual safety wouldn’t make a difference as it just stops the trigger function. WRONG! Not even a little bit wrong but flat out wrong. If you watched the video I posted it explains the movement of the firing pin block and a jolt will not overcome it. The ONLY way that firing pin block gets moved is when the trigger is moved. He's another of the self anointed know-it-alls, FYI. |
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