Well shit, if I’m ever in WA I’ll buy you a beer.  I don’t have any good advice or anything, but everyone needs to hang out and have a good laugh once in while.  No imitation crab meat or fruit plates.

This
I’ve always been a short dude with plenty of ladies (now happily married)

I went fishing often and I was always surprised by how many guys really did not try and when they did were super awkward and failed.

In the Marines I always remembered the Greek god looking Marine that was afraid to talk to women and the ugliest son of a gun we had ladies all over him. It 50/50 man!
Great odds

In college guys would rather smoke cigars and play poker,

Not me I was chasing the ladies. Sat around with a bunch of dudes on deployments.
Never again!

It’s pretty simple as we are wired for the hunt. Some have wings and don’t know why

It all depends on which way you’re facing.

He's right, get it fixed, get it addressed, and then at some point you'll be airworthy.
As a guy, hell if you're 43 at that point, that's not so bad!

The first hurdle is that, the rest of them are smaller.
Brother you owe it to yourself and your quality of life to conquer that.
It might be scary to try, whether it's talking to someone, or maybe it's a med or two - lots of us take meds for things like blood pressure, or other genetic things, it happens.
Get it corrected and figured out and the rest will be way more achievable.



"You can't be hu't - you follow you can't be hu't because you are too tough!
...Listen, he's only a man - you can beat him.
You're a tank kid.
You're a greasy-fast, 200 pound, I-talian tank.
GO TO HIM, RUN OVER HIM."

You know, I've had the same thought... At least we'd have anxiety in common right from the start. But unfortunately, we're both too anxious to put ourselves out there to ever meet.

Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement.

Ha! Thanks, man.

You can always go the other way.  I watched a jail special where guys that had been in for a long time and became institutionalized got released, and they’re trying to reintegrate with society.  Obviously they’re really anxious around women and reek of desperation.  They do two things to get back in the swing of things.  Go to strip clubs and rent it.  Now, I’m not suggesting you do anything illegal or risk your health.  However, perhaps getting some breasts in your face could help with the anxiety.  Think of it like therapy.  I’m only half joking.

Man, I seriously salute you.

If ever there was a guy that truly tried to elevate his fellow man through his trials, it is you.

I’ve said this before, and I mean it…write a damn book.  Retire to your island after helping untold numbers of men in need.  You remind me of a book I read many years ago, I think it was called Making it Big.  Some glamorous RE agent wrote it, seems like the cover looked like a rock star in a yellow suit.  Sold high end RE in Florida.  It’s been a few years and I’m fuzzy on the details.

A lot of guys offer help on this board in regards to women.  You offer science classes on the M/F interaction.

I don’t care what you do for a living.  I’m sure you’re good at it. But waste some time writing a book, and when it sells big, PM me so I can tell you I told you so.

No Homo.  Really.  Just Do It.

Believe me, I hear ya. Though I haven't been able to break that mental barrier yet, I've contemplated it a lot over the last few years. Medication of any kind isn't something I ever want to become dependent on, but I think it's looking like my only option to get the ball rolling just to possibly get into some kind of therapy.

Ha! No, I'd never even consider it. Believe it or not, just any girl with a set of boobs doesn't get my attention at all (which I know is unlike most guys). When I say I've only been interested in 2 women enough to purposefully try to talk to them at all throughout my entire life it's no joke.

You have to come at this from the perspective of someone that can barely get past their anxiety about people enough to go into a grocery store sometimes, Lol.

Most people aren’t into that weird shit you like man. Probably don’t need a notary to witness the signing of the consent forms quite as much.

And, possibly, there was an element of humor in the suggestion.

Charisma and confidence.

You have to care, you have to be present.

If a slut wants to fuck you you don’t need to have much or care much if you look decent.

If a woman wants to be with someone they’re looking for your interest and attention.

You also have to be honest with yourself. Maybe you just don’t want to put in the effort and are happy without a woman.

Apparently AK is 4-5x the national average for rape/assault, so it's probably less of an issue elsewhere.  I didn't realize we were that high up the list, but it explains a lot.  

And the only thing getting signed is a marker saying 'owned' somewhere fun on my SO because she gets off on it.

yup

and flirting is an acquired skill for most of us.   It takes practice.   I don't understand how people can't find someone today.   I used to have to go somewhere to meet women.  Between covid lockdowns and the prevalence of online dating,  you can just create an account on any dating site and just start swiping.   If you're not too picky, you'll find someone very quickly who you can date and get that experience.   The more you date, the better you get it at and you can start being a bit more picky.

If I can meet a nice lady in this coastal commie state, get hitched, keep her happy, have a kid or two - make my "deplorable" unvaccinated Orangeman-voting parents into Grandparents,
And along the way, maybe help a couple good people on their own journeys?
I'd feel pretty darn blessed man, I really would.
Anything else is a bonus

Maybe you're right and I should give it a go
If I do it, darn right I'd be back to say thank you.
Absolutely, no question.


I think one of the toughest things about figuring these things out in life, you don't really have instruments/waypoints that are clear and obvious to follow.
When you watch things work out, the first few times it might look like luck.
If you're around people for whom competing with you is their source of self esteem, you won't know that you're doing well until long after you've gotten there.
They gotta give you the "nuh uh", then they have to fight about it.
It's helpful every time someone throw open their own notebook and compares - and does so honestly


No bromo, but you're a special man.
I think people who can be that honest and complimentary that freely, (I don't just mean like with me right here right now - I mean with the missus, with those employees, those people too, the stuff we don't see here)
Doing that, I think it means having enough self esteem that you can share it with others and still have enough for yourself.
I guess what I'm saying is, "Takes one to know one."

I understand myself a little better thanks to you, and a few other fantastic people on this board! I mean that.
If nothing else, it helped me help some people I care about in my day to day life just a little bit better, and I'll always be grateful for that

Let's assume you're above average intelligence for the sake of conceptualizing this -
An introvert (I am one too, it might not seem that way but I am one if we're being honest), so you've had time to think about things for a looong time.

You've had 2 decades of adulthood to try to figure some things out.
Brother.
Stop expecting yourself to pull out some magic answer like a rabbit from a hat already . It's okay if you can't solo this part of the game, life's a team sport if we're being totally honest.
I think you're a totally solid, legitimate case to talk to someone about some of the complicated thoughts rattling around in there.
They do more than just problem-solve the truly unfortunate cases.  They also do the equivalent of "oil change and tire rotation" stuff


If I can offer you a little bit of hope-ium here: In my college friend group, "The quiet one" landed himself a girlfriend this year. She's pretty too, adores him. Cooks for him, even does his laundry.
What's been kinda wonderful to watch - as that's clicked for him, I can tell his confidence is up. Again he's a quiet introverted guy, but the volume dial is being turned up a little bit and we're all pretty happy about it.


It might really surprise you how many people around you would be happy to see you succeed.

Don't get me wrong, I THINK I know what you meant here, and making fun of Thirstlords is hilarious
But I'm throwing a flag here because I think I see a problem.

IMHO, in your case you might actually have to lean into your physical attraction.
There's no fucking way you've had 2.5 decades of testosterone production and ONLY found 2 women attractive.
No fucking way.
I'm a bit selective, I understand how that goes believe me I'm your best defense attorney on that
HOWEVER, I actually think this might be part of the problem.

Maleness, and our attraction to the women we like is kind of the catalyst for what starts the whole process.
- We notice her in the crowd/room/office and she's stood out to us somehow.
Maybe we think she's cute, maybe we just find her fascinating, maybe we can't think straight, but we are attracted to her like a magnet.
- We collect ourselves and perhaps we talk to them or introduce ourselves or whatever
- She then evaluates us. IMHO women (more often than not, more times than not) are most comfortable looking at male resumes and deciding on a candidate, vs trying to speerfish a man herself, which carries great risk of being fucked-and-chucked.
- If you pass through her filters, this continues. Women are the gatekeepers for sex, men are trying to get invited to the party, setting the whole thing in motion
- Men are the gatekeepers for the relationship/marriage part. It's up to them to propose, they're deciding on "Staying".

But way back in the beginning of that process?
You were drawn/attracted to her.

If your count for that is two.
We've got to circle that parts assembly and figure out how to increase the output.
That's wayyyy too small of a candidate pool.
You need the biggest possible candidate pool to fish from, of women you would genuinely like and be happy with.
Spend time realllly thinking about what matters, and try to add options.

Again this is in addition to conquering some of your own unique challenges, the way every guy has to conquer his own challenges.




The odds of making that work are a moonshot. 1 Woman every 20 years (or say, 1 every 10 years of adulthood), yikes.
I just don't think that's workable.

Dating can be difficult and complicated, people are two moving targets trying to hit eachother, and negotiate with eachother in a very complicated world.
I cannot imagine what my Grandpa would say if I told him that women today won't date men for "voting the wrong way", and it's a norm, and something every man has seen by now.
Yeah.

What I'm saying is, compatibility is hard, you can "do" everything right, and your success rate will look more like a batting average than a test in a favorite subject.
Hit three times out of every 10 at bats, and they'll put you in the hall of fame.




So here's where I'm going to say, you're not a "maybe" case for talking to someone.
You're asking yourself to figure out how to troubleshoot something that's very hard to understand, hoping you'll kind of miracle your way into
1) Understanding all of it
2) Troubleshooting it
3) Getting that 100% right
4) And soon.

Give yourself a break. Talk to someone who knows how that parts assembly works, to give yourself a fighting chance.
Your quality of life should improve dramatically, and not just in the dating realm, but in all the other human-contact ones too.

I was going to flippantly ask him if he had thought about being bi-curious for a while.  . You’re very patient.

Serious face 556Cliff:  I have had a few friends and relatives with anxiety disorders.  They can be crippling, and things can only get better if you work at them.  Sometimes that’s cognitive behavioral therapy to change, “I’m anxious,” into, “I’m excited.”  Sometimes that’s a pill.  Sometimes it’s Jesus.  Whatever it is, you’ll only find it if you start a serious search.

Women really like a sense of humor and confidence in a man. If you can make a woman laugh, it goes a long way to her being comfortable with you.

I would highly recommend therapy. Nothing to do with women, just for your own sense of ease in this life. It's too short to go through with that much anxiety.

My only regret was that I waited so long to go. It took a few tries, but when I landed with an EMDR therapist my depression and anxiety became unstuck immediately. It wasn't a panacea -- I still find that I need exercise, meditation, and some other practices to keep the demons at bay. But there has been a very distinct before and after for me.

Great post. I didn't start dating until I was 33, got married when I was 36. I have had a lot of health problems in my life, primarily cancer (from age 15) at that point. I am 6'6, not the best looking but not real ugly either, very good sense of humor. I was sexually pure and was searching for the same in a wife.

My main hindrance after the health problem was that I was a pastor, what made it worse was that I was the inner city pastor. I had someone put me on eHarmony for a year and it took nearly 1200 matches for me to find a wife. I will say, that Being on eHarmony taught me how to handle rejection, allow me to adapt and learn a lot about myself, also allowed me to learn what women are looking for and being able to meet that without compromising who I am as a man.

The woman I married, my wife of 16 years, is my soulmate, created by God for me. Turns out we were looking for many of  the same things in a mate,  I was her first match,  date and boyfriend. She is the strongest woman I know and compliments me in every way. She says what made her fall in love with me was my strong moral base, laugh and the ability to make her laugh, confidence and the way I treated her and others. I believe these characteristics hold up in attracting most ladies.

My advice would be to find Who You Are, don't compromise but learn to adapt and enjoy life and laughter. The Bible says, "he who findeth wife, findeth the good thing.". You have to get out there and do the hard work of searching. If you want to find a good thing search for a good thing. I also doubt very seriously you're going to find a good thing in the bad bin.

Good grief. Without reading the replies, let me say this.  I'm nothing special, but I am a comical person.  With that noted, I had no problem at all finding myself asking "how did I manage to end up with this sweet thang."  

Dress nicely, no tee shirt!
Be clean and well groomed
A slight smile to the pretty ones
If they make eye contact, casually lick your eyebrows

OK maybe not the last one.

A guy has to get over the fear of rejection. Just accept the fact that you WILL be rejected by some and just keep trying. At some point you'll figure out what works and doesn't (for you) and get better and better at it. Before you know it, you'll have "game" and plenty of girlfriends.

If you can't "seem to find a girlfriend/ get in a relationship", it's you, not her.

Your attitude or choices or actions.

You meet, flirt, ask her out, date, fuck, (or fuck and then date), and pretty soon, you're in a relationship.  That's the normal progression.

Leroy, boy, is that you?
I thought your post-hangin' days were through
Sunk-in eyes and full of sighs
Tell no lies
You get wise
I tell you now, we're gonna pull you through
There's only one thing left that we can do
We gotta get you a woman
It's like nothin' else to make you feel sure you're alive
We gotta get you a woman


Join Toastmasters.  They will help/force you to leave your comfort zone and lean to interact/talk to people including women.

If you don’t want the next 20 years to look like the last 20, you better get some help now.

this is very typical for GD

all that and you have a land cruiser.

2 absolutely fantastic posts.  

Congrats man

I think we're all trying to help him in our own ways
GD's pretty nice like that sometimes amirite?

Don't get me wrong, we can be an absolutely fucking SAVAGE bunch, but sometimes, pure magic

Well, it’s 1 page about not being able to score tail and 13 pages of humble brags about how much tail you can pull, if you consolidate it all down.

I don't think I had even 120 options after a couple of years trying eHarmony. Of course, I initially had zero, as when I tried to sign up in my early 20s they were like "woah, sorry, we can't help you" after filling out the initial questionnaire and didn't even let me continue.

My best luck (if you can even call it that) has been on Match and OKCupid.

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meatspace, bro.

@ThrustMyStoma

I was homeschooled, so if anyone want's to assume that I'm above average intelligence I'm good with that. I'd say I'm at least not a completely dumb guy, I'm certainly no math whiz though.

Yes, I've had many years to think about things and try to find a way to help myself, get help or whatever else, but after all this time I also feel like I know very well what probably won't work for me... So I know going into therapy right off the bat is a non starter. Some sort of anxiety medication to possibly get there might open the door though, or maybe medication might solve the problem all together. I just don't know since I've never even talked to my doctor about any of this.

I do know that the people close to me in my life would be very happy to see me succeed in life in so many ways (there's more to it than just finding a girlfriend), but I also know that they don't think I ever really will.

It sure sounds like you’ve given up.

One of the things that kept me in the game way back when it would have been easier to just drop out was an old saying…”Winners never quit, and quitters never win”.

I’m not yet a winner, but I haven’t quit.

Haha, no I wasn't making fun of anyone. I was just trying to be completely honest with that statement.



Well, I wasn't counting celebrity crushes in that, but even counting those there were only maybe a few throughout the years... I don't feel like it's 100% looks that makes me attracted to someone, but it's a mix of that and personality. Though I think the personality has to be there first... Whatever it is specifically about a woman's personality I'm not sure, but if it's not there then an attractive physical appearance just doesn't really matter as much to me. I guess I'm trying to say that for me it isn't just all about looks and nothing else... It's definitely a combination of things that I somehow take into consideration in a subconscious way before an attraction develops.



As I mentioned previously, I've only recently started to become interested in wanting a girlfriend sometime around my mid 30s. Before that I had not a care in the world about it, I think I'm a late bloomer, but I'm sure there's some weird psychological or hormonal reason behind it. Many here have said that I need to have my testosterone checked in previous threads I've had going on here. So I've been attracted to 2 women in the 5 or so years that I've actually been interested in possibly having a relationship at all. At least I don't think that's as bad as only being attracted 2 in 39 years.

How to up that number I have no idea, I'm very isolated and my social circle is non existent. And I can't emphasize well enough that I don't want a social circle, I'm way beyond introverted and being social in any way is just far too uncomfortable for me to handle well at all. I also need to mention that even though I think I'd like to be in a relationship and have a girlfriend, that I'm not desperate for it. I've just been without it for my whole life up to this point, so it's completely normal for me. I believe this is sort of a good thing as it doesn't have me trying to go up to any and every girl in some place that I'd never go to otherwise in the hopes to score with any one of them. I really rather slowly get to know someone that I find an attraction towards (in I guess my weird way) and see where it might go from there.

The way that people normally meet, date and go through potentially hundreds of different women to hopefully find just that right one is more than daunting to me. I can't even bare the thought of taking that one shot on one girl that I might find attractive. Seriously, if I went on just one date I don't think I'd survive the experience. Far too much anxiety surrounding it and the outcome I imagine would be nothing short of traumatic for me. So I know a lot would have to change about me before I could go on a single date. Heck, just starting and keeping a simple conversation going with anyone is an impossible feat for me most days.



I appreciate your insights on this.

I tried to make myself clear on some things above.

HA! no, no bi-curious here.

It certainly hasn't been easy... I'm not sure how I scored the lucky ticket on this anxiety train.

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   Well, in today's world, this can be a valid problem and question for many people these days.  
The ensuing discussion may be helpful for them.

   In the early part of my career, at some point I realized that just going to work, doing my job, being myself, and going home, was not resulting in meeting anyone.   So, I took corrective action and remedied the problem, and now understand these things a lot better.

   Although I figured things out on my own, it probably would have helped me if I had heard some of these discussions a few years earlier.  

   As some here have already said, be clean, confident, wealthy as possible, and healthy.  

"Lift" seems to be a common stereotypical response, often ridiculed, but it can really make an amazing night and day difference.

this. Naamah has said it before you have to actually go places and do things additionally outside of your normal everyday routine to meet more women. rotate grocery stores like i do. i talk to everyone.

That's a great question. Not sure about the dating world these days, it looks and sounds awful. The days of actively searching ended over a decade ago for me, thank God.

No you don't.
Stop right there. No you don't.
This is a 1 for 1 comparison with someone bringing a vehicle to their mechanic and saying, "Just change my tires, DON'T UP CHARGE ME."

And it's doing this.




Why?
No, this is a cop out.

This is how you got to 39 in this spot.
You open the hood, they can hear the noise under the hood, then they suggest "Hey, a mechanic might be able to quickly find out what's going o-"
"NO NO MECHANIC. So anyway, yeahhhh it screeches like this sometimesss and maybe it's just ___________ my idea on my terms, in a non-mechanic's opinion."

In the real world, people don't fight you to get you to do the right thing.
They go, "ohh uh, mmhmm." and they walk away.





I need to you to release the grip on the steering wheel here.
You don't know what's going to work and what isn't, you need to be as open-minded as possible about what's wrong and what fixes will work.
Do not attempt to reassert control via closing off what avenues might work.



This is the push.
We're giving it to you now.
You've had it your way for ~4 decades.
It's time to try something different.




Well if you're "sure" what the fixes are and aren't, from the 0 and 16 spot, yeah it won't go well.
If you do what you've always done, you will get what you've always gotten.