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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:22:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: even the ukie minister of defense has openly debunked that.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: More than half of all the Russians who have stepped foot in Ukraine since February have become casualties. That’s impressive restraint. even the ukie minister of defense has openly debunked that.... If you say so. 
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:25:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mitary-industrial complex has been lying about the strength and ability of the Russian military for the last 50 years to sell more stuff. A country the size of Texas isnt holding them off. A country the size and shape and GDP of the US is holding them off. We are holding them off. The US and some of Europe is holding them off. You and I are fundng the war. If not for suckers like you and me, Ukraine would have been pulverized months ago. Ukraine gets no credit IMHO. They did jack shit to prepare and fully relied on and still rely on handouts |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:32:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine gets no credit IMHO. They did jack shit to prepare and fully relied on and still rely on handouts Imagine sitting in a bar and telling that to a Ukrainian soldier who fought the Russians. Wouldn’t you cringe with shame and embarrassment for all eternity? You should. I bet you won’t though. But you should. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:35:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine sitting in a bar and telling that to a Ukrainian soldier who fought the Russians. Wouldn’t you cringe with shame and embarrassment for all eternity? You should. I bet you won’t though. But you should. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mitary-industrial complex has been lying about the strength and ability of the Russian military for the last 50 years to sell more stuff. A country the size of Texas isnt holding them off. A country the size and shape and GDP of the US is holding them off. We are holding them off. The US and some of Europe is holding them off. You and I are fundng the war. If not for suckers like you and me, Ukraine would have been pulverized months ago. Ukraine gets no credit IMHO. They did jack shit to prepare and fully relied on and still rely on handouts Imagine sitting in a bar and telling that to a Ukrainian soldier who fought the Russians. Wouldn’t you cringe with shame and embarrassment for all eternity? You should. I bet you won’t though. But you should. Haven't you heard? War is all just high tech gear and no guts now. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:36:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A country the size of Texas isnt holding them off. A country the size and shape and GDP of the US is holding them off. We are holding them off. The US and some of Europe is holding them off. You and I are fundng the war. If not for suckers like you and me, Ukraine would have been pulverized months ago. Ukraine gets no credit IMHO. They did jack shit to prepare and fully relied on and still rely on handouts They spent a greater share of their GDP in defense than we do, and have 100,000 dead and wounded countrymen so far. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:45:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Stop with the Afghan comparisons. We dominated tactically and had no terminating strategy. Russia is clownshoes tactically but has a defined strategic goal. They can't reach their strategic goal because of how bad they are tactically.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:47:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stop with the Afghan comparisons. We dominated tactically and had no terminating strategy. Russia is clownshoes tactically but has a defined strategic goal. They can't reach their strategic goal because of how bad they are tactically. What is Russia’s “defined strategic goal”? |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:48:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stop with the Afghan comparisons. We dominated tactically and had no terminating strategy. Russia is clownshoes tactically but has a defined strategic goal. They can't reach their strategic goal because of how bad they are tactically. The bigger difference is that Ukraine is a sufficiently legitimate and functioning national government to be a suitable client. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:49:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine sitting in a bar and telling that to a Ukrainian soldier who fought the Russians. Wouldn't you cringe with shame and embarrassment for all eternity? You should. I bet you won't though. But you should. The history takes time to write. We'll see said the Zen master. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:50:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did Afghanistan hold us off for 20 years? Because we restrained ourselves? If we'd gone full English colonizer or better yet, Belgian, or even better, full on Draka, we could have depopulated most of the country and had lots of extra land for ourselves in a part of the world that hates us. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:52:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did Afghanistan hold us off for 20 years?  |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:53:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's not all drop and fellate Ukrainian grunts quite yet. The history takes time to write. We'll see said the Zen master. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Imagine sitting in a bar and telling that to a Ukrainian soldier who fought the Russians. Wouldn't you cringe with shame and embarrassment for all eternity? You should. I bet you won't though. But you should. The history takes time to write. We'll see said the Zen master. Insulting them is one end of the spectrum. Fellating them is the other end. If you use less lube, you won’t be so open to the slippery slope |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:57:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Insulting them is one end of the spectrum. Fellating them is the other end. If you use less lube, you won't be so open to the slippery slope  They deserve a bunch of credit, no question. The fight isn't over yet is my only point. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 12:16:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The globalists lose in this weather Ukraine wins or loses. There is nothing here that will further their agenda. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Russia military not as good as expected. Western intelligence and weapons assistance better than expected. Result: prolonged war, more death, more profit (financially and politically) for the globalist warmongers. Cost: lots of unnecessary death, misery, and added potential for energy and food shortages to further the globalist agenda. Evil at play all around. The globalists lose in this weather Ukraine wins or loses. There is nothing here that will further their agenda. Wish it were true but it’s extremely complex and no one know quite how this will turn out. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 12:23:25 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is Russia’s “defined strategic goal”? They want the whole thing. They may end up getting the Donbas region eventually but the failed attempts to take Kiev point to a more ambitious initial goal. They were satisfied with Ukraine as a puppet state but after losing their hold on the government they want the whole thing. If nothing else they are still wrapped up in paranoia and want more land between them and NATO. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 12:46:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A country the size of Texas isnt holding them off. A country the size and shape and GDP of the US is holding them off. We are holding them off. The US and some of Europe is holding them off. You and I are fundng the war. If not for suckers like you and me, Ukraine would have been pulverized months ago. Ukraine gets no credit IMHO. They did jack shit to prepare and fully relied on and still rely on handouts Except the USA isn’t contributing forces. The USA isn’t flying combat missions or deploying naval assets. The USA is contributing a small portion of aid. Weapons and aid have to have good fighting forces to be used effectively. They are doing very very well for fighting a nation 10x their size with a much smaller force |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:01:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell me, who was in control of the country after the war ended? That's who the real winner was. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We weren't beaten in the field there either. That's who the real winner was. The problem in Afghanistan was that the objective was something not attainable by military force. You cannot bomb Pashtuns into wanting to live like Westerners. That’s not the problem facing Russia at all. They are in a conventional war against a culturally similar enemy who they aren’t trying to turn into friends. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:04:55 AM EDT
[#18]
From what I hear from family that lives in the region...Ukraine is not doing well against the Russians.
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:11:30 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except the USA isn’t contributing forces. The USA isn’t flying combat missions or deploying naval assets. The USA is contributing a small portion of aid. Weapons and aid have to have good fighting forces to be used effectively. They are doing very very well for fighting a nation 10x their size with a much smaller force Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A country the size of Texas isnt holding them off. A country the size and shape and GDP of the US is holding them off. We are holding them off. The US and some of Europe is holding them off. You and I are fundng the war. If not for suckers like you and me, Ukraine would have been pulverized months ago. Ukraine gets no credit IMHO. They did jack shit to prepare and fully relied on and still rely on handouts Except the USA isn’t contributing forces. The USA isn’t flying combat missions or deploying naval assets. The USA is contributing a small portion of aid. Weapons and aid have to have good fighting forces to be used effectively. They are doing very very well for fighting a nation 10x their size with a much smaller force Actually the US is providing a massive amount of aid. Ukraine is on puppet strings at this point. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:13:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: even the ukie minister of defense has openly debunked that.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: More than half of all the Russians who have stepped foot in Ukraine since February have become casualties. That’s impressive restraint. even the ukie minister of defense has openly debunked that.... Uh, no, he hasn't. There are various estimates that Ukraine, the US, and the UK MoD have put out that would support half the original number of Russian troops committed to Ukraine have either been killed or wounded. So, the number is as correct as anybody can estimate. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:15:50 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is Russia’s “defined strategic goal”? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Stop with the Afghan comparisons. We dominated tactically and had no terminating strategy. Russia is clownshoes tactically but has a defined strategic goal. They can't reach their strategic goal because of how bad they are tactically. What is Russia’s “defined strategic goal”? Seizing all of Ukraine and stealing all their natural resources? |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:18:21 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I hear from family that lives in the region...Ukraine is not doing well against the Russians. From what we hear from Arfcommers who are actually in country, Ukraine is doing very, very well against the Russians. They are playing things very smartly. That's a good thing because they don't have a lot of room to make mistakes. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:22:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually the US is providing a massive amount of aid. Ukraine is on puppet strings at this point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A country the size of Texas isnt holding them off. A country the size and shape and GDP of the US is holding them off. We are holding them off. The US and some of Europe is holding them off. You and I are fundng the war. If not for suckers like you and me, Ukraine would have been pulverized months ago. Ukraine gets no credit IMHO. They did jack shit to prepare and fully relied on and still rely on handouts Except the USA isn’t contributing forces. The USA isn’t flying combat missions or deploying naval assets. The USA is contributing a small portion of aid. Weapons and aid have to have good fighting forces to be used effectively. They are doing very very well for fighting a nation 10x their size with a much smaller force Actually the US is providing a massive amount of aid. Ukraine is on puppet strings at this point. The US has pledged to provide a certain amount of aid. What we've actually delivered isn't all that massive. And, remember, some of the "Ukraine aid" package was actually to pay for US troops to be permanently stationed in NATO countries to provide a deterrent to asshole Russia from invading NATO countries. European countries like UK, Poland, and so forth have provided equivalent amounts of aid as we have because they are delivering what they pledged and we're dragging our deliveries out. As to how much we provide vs. other countries in the long run, that remains to be seen. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:27:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine sitting in a bar and telling that to a Ukrainian soldier who fought the Russians. Wouldn’t you cringe with shame and embarrassment for all eternity? You should. I bet you won’t though. But you should. Sure I could have clarified it better. I meant from a political standpoint. The Ukranians pulling triggers are to be commended. I support their defense as individuals. I would be glad to meet one. Still not a fan of the people running it. To me it will always be a 2nd rate shithole just as corrupt and fucked as Russia is. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:28:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is Russia’s “defined strategic goal”? Seems like they kind of just wing it depending on the time of day or how bad thier troops did |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:30:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I meant from a political standpoint. The Ukranians pulling triggers are to be commended. I support their defense as individuals. I just dont worship Ukraine like some of you do. I hope they win. But they as governmet seem to be as shitty as expected. Their troops? So far so good. The Russians were predictaly terrible. But to think Ukraines success belongs to Ukraine is insane. If not for everyone helping them, they would have been demoloshed. I think Ukraine could have largely done what they did until late spring when the artillery ran out. Then it would have collapsed for lack of munitions. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:34:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think Ukraine could have largely done what they did until late spring when the artillery ran out. Then it would have collapsed for lack of munitions. If it were still near peer then yes. They would have been smoked by now. Advanced western weaponry saved their asses |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:42:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The US has pledged to provide a certain amount of aid. What we've actually delivered isn't all that massive. And, remember, some of the "Ukraine aid" package was actually to pay for US troops to be permanently stationed in NATO countries to provide a deterrent to asshole Russia from invading NATO countries. European countries like UK, Poland, and so forth have provided equivalent amounts of aid as we have because they are delivering what they pledged and we're dragging our deliveries out. As to how much we provide vs. other countries in the long run, that remains to be seen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A country the size of Texas isnt holding them off. A country the size and shape and GDP of the US is holding them off. We are holding them off. The US and some of Europe is holding them off. You and I are fundng the war. If not for suckers like you and me, Ukraine would have been pulverized months ago. Ukraine gets no credit IMHO. They did jack shit to prepare and fully relied on and still rely on handouts Except the USA isn’t contributing forces. The USA isn’t flying combat missions or deploying naval assets. The USA is contributing a small portion of aid. Weapons and aid have to have good fighting forces to be used effectively. They are doing very very well for fighting a nation 10x their size with a much smaller force Actually the US is providing a massive amount of aid. Ukraine is on puppet strings at this point. The US has pledged to provide a certain amount of aid. What we've actually delivered isn't all that massive. And, remember, some of the "Ukraine aid" package was actually to pay for US troops to be permanently stationed in NATO countries to provide a deterrent to asshole Russia from invading NATO countries. European countries like UK, Poland, and so forth have provided equivalent amounts of aid as we have because they are delivering what they pledged and we're dragging our deliveries out. As to how much we provide vs. other countries in the long run, that remains to be seen. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 1:58:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have been training and equipping them since 2014. Billions of dollars and massive amounts of weapons plus our intel apparatus. Do you think Ukraine has the power to seize assets or put global sanctions on them? The US blocked arms transfers and sales to Ukraine for years until trump was elected, and again after Biden took the presidency. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 3:12:10 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryThis. We have a population of 300 million but the real numbers of those involved in Afghanistan are trivial in the big picture. Especially when factor in lack of a clear endgame. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 3:53:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually the US is providing a massive amount of aid. Ukraine is on puppet strings at this point. The USA isn’t in the top 3. Thats Poland and the Baltics and England. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 3:55:15 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure I could have clarified it better. I meant from a political standpoint. The Ukranians pulling triggers are to be commended. I support their defense as individuals. I would be glad to meet one. Still not a fan of the people running it. To me it will always be a 2nd rate shithole just as corrupt and fucked as Russia is. The guy at the top literally told Biden to pound sand. That’s every arfcommers dream. Then the same day he told Putin “deez nuts” and “send it ya pussy”. Dude has some balls and street cred. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 5:16:36 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A country the size of Texas isnt holding them off. A country the size and shape and GDP of the US is holding them off. We are holding them off. The US and some of Europe is holding them off. You and I are fundng the war. If not for suckers like you and me, Ukraine would have been pulverized months ago. Ukraine gets no credit IMHO. They did jack shit to prepare and fully relied on and still rely on handouts I bet you wouldn’t have the balls to say that to a Ukrainian soldier face to face. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 5:18:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The russian military sucks and has always sucked This, and we have given them literally billions of dollars of cash and weapons. It's not rocket surgery |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 5:21:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did we roll artillery and knock down each city grid by grid square? Mud huts can take a pounding and still be standing after… |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 9:52:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This, and we have given them literally billions of dollars of cash and weapons. It's not rocket surgery How did that work out with the Afghan army? |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 10:07:45 AM EDT
[#37]
My unscientific, armchair quarterback guess is that part of it is the Russians aren't going full send/all in to Ukraine, and that their military is not as good as they would like people to believe it is.
I don't know how you would effectively fight an urban war in an area with buildings and such, and potential civilians/non-combatants to deal with. That seems like a nightmare for any force to have to deal with short of going scorched earth and killing everyone indiscriminately. I feel like a lot of rank and file Russian troops probably have some reservations about fighting Ukrainians as well. Sure, a lot of them don't give a shit, hence the raping and pillaging and cutting peoples balls off and such, but I want to believe that a lot of them are ordinary dudes that are wondering wtf are they doing here, they probably just want to go home, especially seeing their buddies beside them getting maimed and killed. Putin will tell the world about the Russian juggernaut and how powerful and mighty they are, but I really don't think they're shit for this campaign the way it has been fought so far, unless the gloves come completely off and they start annihilating any and every Ukrainian thing in their way with no care about collateral damage. I also think that if it came to that, the rest of the world would have no choice but to intervene, and Russia doesn't want that. That's probably keeping Ukraine in the fight more than anything. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 10:22:01 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 8/13/2022 12:30:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We weren't beaten in the field there either. Most wars are won politically, not on the field. If you drag a superior force into an extended guerrilla war, eventually political, public and economic pressure can sway the enemy leadership to withdraw. Hell, look at the American Revolution. Lee knew this as well and had generals who had every intention of scattering into the woods to fight guerrilla style which is why he ended it at Appomattox. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 3:37:55 AM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 8/15/2022 5:14:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They certainly did not we went where we pleased. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How did Afghanistan hold us off for 20 years? They certainly did not we went where we pleased. lol yup sure right back to merica while leaving everything behind......including....wait for it.......some Americans. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 6:10:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mitary-industrial complex has been lying about the strength and ability of the Russian military for the last 50 years to sell more stuff. Yep. The AF Foreign Technology Division would get a picture of a Russian asset and put out an intelligence assessment of “ if we built something that looked like that, this is what it could do” Then when they actually exploited one, it would have 10% of the projected capability. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 8:42:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they try to keep this up for 6 months, they will collapse. Period. How do I measure this? By looking at what they have, and the pace by which it is being destroyed. It’s a bargain! And it should be said… That’s not factoring in winter. RU can’t even supply enough ammo and spare parts, let alone winter gear for everyone there. Sergey will ratfuck the boots and jackets to trade for booze, and they will not survive winter. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 8:59:29 AM EDT
[#44]
We are footing the bill under orders of our government that holds us in utter disdain.
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Posted: 8/15/2022 9:09:30 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. The AF Foreign Technology Division would get a picture of a Russian asset and put out an intelligence assessment of " if we built something that looked like that, this is what it could do" Then when they actually exploited one, it would have 10% of the projected capability. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 9:12:27 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did Afghanistan hold us off for 20 years? They held Russia off pretty good too |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 9:13:28 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryThe April lines are even better. About the same in the East and lost everything their gained in the “feint” from the north. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 9:13:42 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Proxy war. Without US military aid Ukraine would have folded long ago. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 9:18:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia military not as good as expected. Western intelligence and weapons assistance better than expected. Result: prolonged war, more death, more profit (financially and politically) for the globalist warmongers. Cost: lots of unnecessary death, misery, and added potential for energy and food shortages to further the globalist agenda. Evil at play all around. The alternative was just let them waltz in and take control of their country. From the point of view of Russia shouldn't have started shit it is very unnecessary. From the point of view of living in an country that just got invaded fighting like hell to maintain your sovereignty is damn well necessary. You have a third way of getting Russia to leave that doesn't involve a bunch of people getting killed? Yeah, didn't think so. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 9:24:31 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And it should be said… That’s not factoring in winter. RU can’t even supply enough ammo and spare parts, let alone winter gear for everyone there. Sergey will ratfuck the boots and jackets to trade for booze, and they will not survive winter. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If they try to keep this up for 6 months, they will collapse. Period. How do I measure this? By looking at what they have, and the pace by which it is being destroyed. It’s a bargain! And it should be said… That’s not factoring in winter. RU can’t even supply enough ammo and spare parts, let alone winter gear for everyone there. Sergey will ratfuck the boots and jackets to trade for booze, and they will not survive winter. Yep the other chessnut is the 'Muh Russia stronk in winter'. Sure against ze Germans in their summer uniforms but completly forgetting the fact that Ukrainian winters were cold as fuck around Lutsk and Kiev when I was there. |
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