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Posted: 8/12/2022 12:31:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Em oh en e why With a splash of n a r c i s s i s t ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How is that victory, "in Clausewitzean terms"? If you want to overcome your enemy you must match your effort against his power of resistance. . . . But the enemy will do the same; competition will again result and, in pure theory, it must again force you both to extremes That’s the shittiest interpretation of Clausewitz I have ever read.  For that to be even remotely apt, our goal in Afghanistan would have had to have been to hold and control the country forever. How does one adhere to their sense of duty when being directed by ineffectual and weak masters? I mean it. How do you maintain your sanity and honor bound convictions when inserted into amazingly complex and perhaps nebulous conflicts? Em oh en e why With a splash of n a r c i s s i s t ? Can you elaborate? I'm a fairly new firearms enthusiast around these parts. I like guns by the way. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 12:32:09 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian restraint. Russia executing hundreds and devastating cities is “restraint”? |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 12:33:28 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bingo and Ukraine would’ve lost fewer lives and much less property damage. The US is going to destroy Ukraine in its quest to secure oil contracts, launder money and annoy Russia. Basically pirate shit. Couldn’t we just give up our Ar15s and it would be a lot easier here? Less of a fight? Less stress, potential lives lost, and more money? |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 12:38:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s the shittiest interpretation of Clausewitz I have ever read. For that to be even remotely apt, our goal in Afghanistan would have had to have been to hold and control the country forever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How is that victory, "in Clausewitzean terms"? If you want to overcome your enemy you must match your effort against his power of resistance. . . . But the enemy will do the same; competition will again result and, in pure theory, it must again force you both to extremes That’s the shittiest interpretation of Clausewitz I have ever read. For that to be even remotely apt, our goal in Afghanistan would have had to have been to hold and control the country forever. I'm sorry but that just reads like complete Monty Pythonesque gibberish. "We only held and controlled it for 20 years in the 21st century and that's not very long, right?" |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 12:47:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Couldn’t we just give up our Ar15s and it would be a lot easier here? Less of a fight? Less stress, potential lives lost, and more money? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bingo and Ukraine would’ve lost fewer lives and much less property damage. The US is going to destroy Ukraine in its quest to secure oil contracts, launder money and annoy Russia. Basically pirate shit. Couldn’t we just give up our Ar15s and it would be a lot easier here? Less of a fight? Less stress, potential lives lost, and more money? Not sure you think like an American at this point. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 12:54:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Russia/USSR has been wildly held as within the top 3 most powerful militaries in the world for the last 50 years. What the hell happened? The military is as good as its leadership. Russians are likely already used to be spent as toilet paper by a leadership that is usually on high alcohol a good percentage of the time. However, let's not forget that the US military just did one of the most shameful things for a military when it abandoned billions in weapons, that will be used against Americans, to its enemy, and literally ran away under its leadership orders. If I was in the US military today, I would be very worried about being deployed and given idiotic/suicidal orders by the current leadership. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 12:57:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, seems like many losers on this site get emotionally invested in dumb things. I read the lack of pushback the first few days by UA as being soft, and admitted I was wrong when new data came in. Now show me where I touched you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I seem to remember months back you were sucking Russian dick. Did the taste spoil ? LOL, seems like many losers on this site get emotionally invested in dumb things. I read the lack of pushback the first few days by UA as being soft, and admitted I was wrong when new data came in. Now show me where I touched you. If you were Wrong, and admit you were Wrong, isn’t it time to stop pontificating? Talk about a topic you Know. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:04:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Fpni
Russia is just recently started recovering from the collapse of the USSR. Yes they have a nuclear arsenal but they are nothing like the us military since the cold war passed. Our government is glad to sell you that bullshit to keep spending hundreds of billions being the world police and getting rich though. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:11:14 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really think Russia is able to supply troops for an extended period? No shit? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Really? They really are evacuating the area. If Russia can take and hold it is a decidedly different question. Russia already has a decent chunk of separatists in the area and it's within the conceivable range of Russia being able to supply troops for an extended period. My guess is Russia eventually gets Donbas at an astronomical cost and then pretends that was their victory goal all along. You really think Russia is able to supply troops for an extended period? No shit? It’s the same distance as driving three states over, so ehh… Flip a coin. They were able to mount operations in Afghanistan for years, but that was 40 years ago, when they had the full might of the USSR. Now they’re the nation-state equivalent of a west virginia trailer park. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:12:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Ask Vietnam.
It's a lot easier to keep someone else from winning than it is to win. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:13:42 AM EDT
[#11]
With a lot of determination and a little help you can make the enemy pay. There are valuable lessons to be learned in this.
But Russia had shown restraint. It will probably be their fatal flaw. As bad as it is , and it’s a disgusting time in history over there. It could be a lot worse for Ukraine and that is another valuable lesson. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:31:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bingo and Ukraine would’ve lost fewer lives and much less property damage. The US is going to destroy Ukraine in its quest to secure oil contracts, launder money and annoy Russia. Basically pirate shit. Yeah if you would have just sucked cleetus's cock like he demanded he wouldnt have been so rough when he fucked you up the ass. Just take the rape like a good boy. Imagine being so cucked you could say something like this with a straight face. Every freedom loving person deserves the chance to defend their right to self determination. Anyone saying shit like this is either a coward, a cuck, or actually fucking retarded. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:37:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a lot of determination and a little help you can make the enemy pay. There are valuable lessons to be learned in this. But Russia had shown restraint. It will probably be their fatal flaw. As bad as it is , and it’s a disgusting time in history over there. It could be a lot worse for Ukraine and that is another valuable lesson. How can you actually believe that??  wow, some of there best units where decimated at the very beginning! they have used everything short of nukes in there arsenal. to which now they have used SAM missiles as ground attack weapons. they have flattened whole towns and villages, and raped and tortured sprinkled along with it. restraint? man you truly have to stop falling for russian or whatever propaganda you have been reading or trying to push.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:37:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah if you would have just sucked cleetus's cock like he demanded he wouldnt have been so rough when he fucked you up the ass. Just take the rape like a good boy. Imagine being so cucked you could say something like this with a straight face. Every freedom loving person deserves the chance to defend their right to self determination. Anyone saying shit like this is either a coward, a cuck, or actually fucking retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bingo and Ukraine would’ve lost fewer lives and much less property damage. The US is going to destroy Ukraine in its quest to secure oil contracts, launder money and annoy Russia. Basically pirate shit. Yeah if you would have just sucked cleetus's cock like he demanded he wouldnt have been so rough when he fucked you up the ass. Just take the rape like a good boy. Imagine being so cucked you could say something like this with a straight face. Every freedom loving person deserves the chance to defend their right to self determination. Anyone saying shit like this is either a coward, a cuck, or actually fucking retarded. there are a ton of these types right now in GD.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:45:06 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay, well exactly when are they going to run out of ammo and weapons? We've been told by US/UK intelligence that they are on their last legs every month since the invasion began. When is this imminent collapse going to happen? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You really think Russia is able to supply troops for an extended period? No shit? We've been told by US/UK intelligence that they are on their last legs every month since the invasion began. When is this imminent collapse going to happen? even in march it was known russia doesnt have the man power to hold onto Ukraine, its just a fact they cannot. Forbes article from March 10th but , they have been making accurate assesments since the beginning and most have become true. , but Russia is already having a very VERY hard time filling the ranks due to losses on the front.. they are down to trying to assemble "volunteer" battalions to send. and they are barely able to even get a full one assembled. they cannot keep this up. That is a fact, I guess you are either getting false info or ignoring facts. another article on russia's "professional" soldiers https://www.rand.org/blog/2022/03/russias-problems-with-military-professionalization.html |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 2:27:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a lot of determination and a little help you can make the enemy pay. There are valuable lessons to be learned in this. But Russia had shown restraint. It will probably be their fatal flaw. As bad as it is , and it’s a disgusting time in history over there. It could be a lot worse for Ukraine and that is another valuable lesson. Russia didn’t show any restraint. They didn’t care about anyone’s lives except ground gained and people conquered. Let’s end this myth |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 3:18:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure you think like an American at this point. Why? Am I not surrendering fast enough? Is that what an American is supposed to do? |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 4:05:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How can you actually believe that?? wow, some of there best units where decimated at the very beginning! they have used everything short of nukes in there arsenal. to which now they have used SAM missiles as ground attack weapons. they have flattened whole towns and villages, and raped and tortured sprinkled along with it. restraint? man you truly have to stop falling for russian or whatever propaganda you have been reading or trying to push.I assume he means that Russia has not attacked key infrastructure like water sanitation, hospital/drug supply warehouses, mail, electricity production, mobile and internet networks, the things that keep society working in the areas they are not actively trying to capture like in Lviv or even Kiev. He could, if he chose to, make life absolutely miserable for the areas in west Ukraine. Russia has also never attacked politicians, or gone after Zelenskyy with missiles, if they wanted they could have blown up Verkhovna Rada building (parliament) at any time. There have not been any attempts to kill Ukrainian politicians or disable payment networks (to my knowledge), so that begs the question of why have they attacked with restraint when they could do a lot of damage to Ukrainian society in areas they are not trying to capture. Why has Putin not chosen total war, is what he means I think. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 4:13:41 AM EDT
[#19]
The corruption is so monumental it is hard to imagine and Putin State-sponsored.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 5:03:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Proxy war. Without US military aid Ukraine would have folded long ago. Truth. But truth is a bitter pill to swallow for most peeps. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 5:53:47 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When? When zelensky runs out of conscripts. Ukraine will likely lose more than the Donbas. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:13:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Truth. But truth is a bitter pill to swallow for most peeps. Quote HistoryQuoted: Truth. But truth is a bitter pill to swallow for most peeps. And? We finally pick some good guys to back and certain folks want to abandon them to the wolves. Quoted: When zelensky runs out of conscripts. Ukraine will likely lose more than the Donbas. They aren't. And won't. There are more men waiting to be equipped and join than they can equip and train. What happens when Putin runs out of folks to press gang from the occupied territories? |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:15:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Took dump, did not have plan.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:19:41 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep this one simple trick your Russian bot farm hates. I myself am more curious how it feels for a US 2A supporter to stand shoulder to shoulder with Best Korea, Iran, Communist Cuba, Communist Venezuela, Syria, China, Myanmar and shitholes I forgot to mention LoL..pathetic. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:23:01 AM EDT
[#25]
At least two military industrial complexes destroying just enough equipment and munitions to keep the gravy train going.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:29:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been quite impressed with the progress that Russia has made against The Ukraine. Despite having been trained, armed, and funded by Nato for the past 8 years the Ukrainians are having a hard time slowing down the Russians much less repel them. The aid given to Ukraine has far surpassed the military budget for the entire Russian Army, yet the results haven't changed much on the ground. I can't imagine the number of casualties the US Military would have suffered if the Iraqis or the Afghanis would have received the same support The Ukraine has. Another thing that has me impressed is the speed at which incompetent military commanders are replaced when they screw up. Here in the US not only has no one been held accountable for the absolute failures that were the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the only ones that faced any sort of repercussions were those who spoke out such as Lt Col Stuart Scheller. Hell the troops that refused the Covid Vaccine faced more accountability than our incompetent military and political leadership. A question for all you boomers though, has wartime propaganda always been this bad? It seems like every Ukraine war thread devolves into a shitshow of epic proportions and propaganda from both the Ukraine shills and Russian shills are constantly being proven wrong. I'm not usually one to call out an account as being a paid troll, but... |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:32:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Fucking Cuba could hold them off as long as the us/Europe are flooding them with weapons and probably on ground advisors.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:32:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Am I the only one who doesn’t know how Russia is doing in Ukraine?
Are they leaving? Are they winning? Are they holding ground? |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:43:09 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Obama doesn't convince Ukraine to give their nukes up, Russia stays home. Instead, he tells them that Murica has your back and they hand them over to Vlad. As far as your question, its a combination of all the answers given:
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:46:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Am I the only one who doesn’t know how Russia is doing in Ukraine? Are they leaving? Are they winning? Are they holding ground? No. If the game is who conquers territory and gains resources then Russia is most definitely winning. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:48:05 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mitary-industrial complex has been lying about the strength and ability of the Russian military for the last 50 years to sell more stuff. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:53:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you elaborate? I'm a fairly new firearms enthusiast around these parts. I like guns by the way. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How is that victory, "in Clausewitzean terms"? If you want to overcome your enemy you must match your effort against his power of resistance. . . . But the enemy will do the same; competition will again result and, in pure theory, it must again force you both to extremes That’s the shittiest interpretation of Clausewitz I have ever read. For that to be even remotely apt, our goal in Afghanistan would have had to have been to hold and control the country forever. How does one adhere to their sense of duty when being directed by ineffectual and weak masters? I mean it. How do you maintain your sanity and honor bound convictions when inserted into amazingly complex and perhaps nebulous conflicts? Em oh en e why With a splash of n a r c i s s i s t ? Can you elaborate? I'm a fairly new firearms enthusiast around these parts. I like guns by the way. He is suggesting that everyone who serves in our military lacks honor and only serves for money. That is an entirely predictable perspective from someone who supports Putin. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:59:21 AM EDT
[#33]
If Russia tries to maintain combat operations at their current pace, their military will collapse. If that happens, the Russian government might see some changes.
If they attempt to “pause” for a few months to retrofit and rebuild, they will be vulnerable to Ukrainian counterattack. This is unsustainable for Russia |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:23:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Still can't believe all the shitbirds who still think the US should send in troops at this point. And then the other turds who say the war there is somehow "our" fault.
Its like watching two shit faced drunks argue ove the 1923 world series umpire calls. UKR is as corrupt as ever. RUS is hungry for more land. Pootypoo is learning it would have been cheaper to bribe them than fight them. And in the end, that's probably what will happen. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:25:06 AM EDT
[#35]
NATO training since 2014 or before. Billions of dollars of weapons sent. not for nothing, but Ukraine is the 2nd largest military in Europe, behind Russia
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:26:14 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian restraint. All they need to do is pull out some more t55s and t34s to get the job done! |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:27:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian restraint. Mostly. I think everyone is forgetting that Russia came in not wanted to destroy everything. UKR isn’t valuable as a pile of ashes and it’s a huge burden to have to rebuild everything. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:27:59 AM EDT
[#38]
Russia is a disaster. Remember the cracking truck tires and the running out of gas on their initial thrust to Kiev?
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:28:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Russia tries to maintain combat operations at their current pace, their military will collapse. If that happens, the Russian government might see some changes. If they attempt to “pause” for a few months to retrofit and rebuild, they will be vulnerable to Ukrainian counterattack. This is unsustainable for Russia So Russia will be driven out? |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:38:28 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been quite impressed with the progress that Russia has made against The Ukraine. Despite having been trained, armed, and funded by Nato for the past 8 years the Ukrainians are having a hard time slowing down the Russians much less repel them. The aid given to Ukraine has far surpassed the military budget for the entire Russian Army, yet the results haven't changed much on the ground. I can't imagine the number of casualties the US Military would have suffered if the Iraqis or the Afghanis would have received the same support The Ukraine has. Another thing that has me impressed is the speed at which incompetent military commanders are replaced when they screw up. Here in the US not only has no one been held accountable for the absolute failures that were the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the only ones that faced any sort of repercussions were those who spoke out such as Lt Col Stuart Scheller. Hell the troops that refused the Covid Vaccine faced more accountability than our incompetent military and political leadership. A question for all you boomers though, has wartime propaganda always been this bad? It seems like every Ukraine war thread devolves into a shitshow of epic proportions and propaganda from both the Ukraine shills and Russian shills are constantly being proven wrong. LoL Comrade |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:40:47 AM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 8/12/2022 9:57:29 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still can't believe all the shitbirds who still think the US should send in troops at this point. And then the other turds who say the war there is somehow "our" fault. Its like watching two shit faced drunks argue ove the 1923 world series umpire calls. UKR is as corrupt as ever. RUS is hungry for more land. Pootypoo is learning it would have been cheaper to bribe them than fight them. And in the end, that's probably what will happen. Worked in Chechnya. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:01:58 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mostly. I think everyone is forgetting that Russia came in not wanted to destroy everything. UKR isn’t valuable as a pile of ashes and it’s a huge burden to have to rebuild everything. Using Grad batteries on cities is an excellent way to show one's restraint. If only the bitch had dinner ready like Russia had repeatedly asked... They're incompetent thugs. And rebuilding Ukraine wasn't really on the agenda. Not if Putin actually is guided by the teachings of Dugin. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:13:17 AM EDT
[#44]
Russian military always sucked. Without western money, weapons, people “advising” how to use the weapons, and tell them where to go and fight, Ukraine would’ve been beaten long ago.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:21:26 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia’s ground forces are no longer a threat to anyone. They been effectively destroyed. Sweden and Finland are joining NATO. That’s winning? Has Russia retreated to their boarders? No. Putin pulled back his forces to give up land? No. Can/has the Ukraine pushed them back to any meaningful degree? No. Half of you don't seem to understand how this works. Sure their military has been exposed as absolutely inept, but they're still there. The russian army are squatters now, holding the land they've already taken. Unless they can be pushed out-- and there are no signs of that on any large scale by Ukrainian forces --Russia's there to stay. Probably for years because of a combination of our weak leadership and resource dependence on the very people invading the Ukraine. Strategically? Yes, this is a huge embarrassment on the international stage. Russia is no longer a credible power and they're forced to remind everybody they have nukes because they've failed so badly here. Problem is they're not fighting us, Finland or Sweden. So until you can show me the general retreat of russian forces from the Ukraine- which you can't -Russia has effectively achieved part of their goal. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:38:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Russian military sucks. half-century old Soviet tanks, rotted tires, and seemingly no logistics whatsoever
yet for how pathetic Russia is, a country the size of Texas (with all the aid and training the US and others have provided free), is still unable to make any lasting gains on driving out the occupying Russian forces these past few months |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:46:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They certainly did not we went where we pleased. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How did Afghanistan hold us off for 20 years? They certainly did not we went where we pleased. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:46:47 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More than half of all the Russians who have stepped foot in Ukraine since February have become casualties. That's impressive restraint. That's how you know Russia is really serious. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:49:37 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We weren't beaten in the field there either. It's just how we roll, come to find out an organization designed to break other people's stuff isn't so good at rebuilding a society. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:54:51 AM EDT
[#50]
As has been mentioned, third-world rock farmers in dirty pajamas and sandals held the world's most powerful military force in check for 20 years with zero help and almost no technology. Then they blew us up as we were running away in defeat, and have since been making videos and promotional material with the hundreds of millions of dollars of weapons and vehicles they took.
How did that happen? |
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