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Posted: 8/12/2022 4:55:19 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryI know quite a few with 15+ and even 20+ just waiting for that backpay before they pull the pin. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:15:33 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:26:10 AM EDT
[#3]
So roughly another month to go for the deadline?
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:31:47 AM EDT
[#4]
BLET, SMART-TD presidents update members following PEB 250
Multiple proposals were exchanged over these last two and a half years, including varying wage proposals, all in an effort to come to a voluntary agreement worthy of ratification by the membership. Nowhere else was the distance between the sides more evident than in the discussion of wages. Contracts of both five- and six-year durations were proposed and discussed, driving differing values for the wage package. Our last unified wage proposal as we were released from mediation in June contained a six-year proposal with wage increases occurring July 1st of each year totaling 40%, with 36% of that payable in the first five years. In contrast, in January of 2022, the carriers’ proposed wage increase totaling 11% and their last proposal as we were released from mediation was a five-year proposal with wage increases occurring on July 1st of each year totaling 14%. With a gap that wide, it was no surprise that voluntary efforts, as well as mandatory government-sponsored mediation, failed to reach an agreement. In crafting the unions’ final wage proposal, and knowing that those proposals had to be supported by our expert economist, an in-depth analysis was conducted — taking into account long-term wage growth, past and present, as well as increases in the cost of living for the years covered by the agreement. Consideration also had to be given to the financial value of the other non-wage proposals going before the PEB as part of crafting a final proposal that we believe the Board would recommend. In the period between the close of NMB mediation in June and the PEB hearings in July, and after consultation with the unions’ economic expert, the unions determined that the wage proposal that could be best supported by our economic data was a final, unified proposal totaling a 28% gross wage increase (GWI), uncompounded, over five years. Our health and welfare experts also made the case that no additional health and welfare costs should be pushed onto employees. We made the case for needed sick days and additional holidays for all involved Unions. We made a joint case for eliminating all non-negotiated attendance policies, allowing General Committees to serve notice to compel on-property bargaining for voluntary rest days, and improvements to our held away meal allowances. All in all, the United Rail Unions made a sound, reasonable case before the PEB. We must thank our team’s legal counsel, health care experts, expert economist and all of the witnesses who gave testimony on behalf of our United Rail Unions. In the coming weeks, we will receive the PEB’s recommendations for settlement of our dispute and then consider them. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:36:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So roughly another month to go for the deadline? The PEB has until the 17th to release their recommendations. After which the companies and the unions have 30 more days to accept or reject them. So, failing acceptance by both sides, September 16th should be when either party can engage in self help (lock out or strike). Although it is widely expected that at that point Congress would intervene and eventually dictate the terms of a new agreement. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:33:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The PEB has until the 17th to release their recommendations. After which the companies and the unions have 30 more days to accept or reject them. So, failing acceptance by both sides, September 16th should be when either party can engage in self help (lock out or strike). Although it is widely expected that at that point Congress would intervene and eventually dictate the terms of a new agreement. And after the dust has settled and back pay is squared up, how many are expected to quit ? And what is the Railroads plan to maintain staffing levels after the exodus? |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 8:39:28 PM EDT
[#7]
boy that would be the end of the world, no more double stacked containers filled with chinese shit for as far as the eye can see.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 9:21:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: boy that would be the end of the world, no more double stacked containers filled with chinese shit for as far as the eye can see. There are 35,000 containers sitting at the Port in LA and the numbers continue to build due to UP's failure. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 9:31:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And after the dust has settled and back pay is squared up, how many are expected to quit ? And what is the Railroads plan to maintain staffing levels after the exodus? They didn't have a plan before. They don't have a plan for afterwards. Their goal is one man crew's and they hope the crisis can be used as an excuse to legislate them. At least two CEO's have openly stated that the crew shortage could be solved that way. Until they're forced to they're going to maintain as small as workforce as possible to continue their record profits. They used COVID as an excuse for all sorts of exemptions. Here's an idea that I can guarantee came straight from the railroads and is an excuse and glosses over the actual problems. Rail Training Bill As to how many, it's anyone's guess. I'm sure some are all talk and no action. But most everyone I know is looking for a way out and would likely jump at one if it presented itself. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 9:37:03 PM EDT
[#10]
We’re gonna get screwed.
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Posted: 8/12/2022 9:43:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are 35,000 containers sitting at the Port in LA and the numbers continue to build due to UP's failure. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: boy that would be the end of the world, no more double stacked containers filled with chinese shit for as far as the eye can see. There are 35,000 containers sitting at the Port in LA and the numbers continue to build due to UP's failure. How many of those are empty? |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 4:07:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Oh boy……
This is not looking good. |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 4:40:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh boy…… This is not looking good. Do tell… |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 5:01:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do tell… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Oh boy…… This is not looking good. Do tell… https://www.docdroid.net/t9jodav/peb-recommendation-pdf |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 5:03:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh boy…… This is not looking good. Nope, that milkshake won't be bringing the boys to the yard... |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 5:12:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryFor the tl;dr folks, pages 116-117 are worth reading. Someone needs to tell these guys it ain't 2019 any more. Would also be interesting to know how much the insurance costs to the employee would go up. |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 5:23:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the tl;dr folks, pages 116-117 are worth reading. Someone needs to tell these guys it ain't 2019 any more. Would also be interesting to know how much the insurance costs to the employee would go up. No idea what the monthly premium would be... 
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Posted: 8/16/2022 6:56:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No idea what the monthly premium would be... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/137019/299492455_10229572374600668_825091671421-2491543.jpg Those are the carrier's proposals. Not what the PEB recommended. I think going back to the 15% would be around $50/ month more. |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 7:03:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh boy…… This is not looking good. This. I don't think it's enough to change anyone's mind. DME, a class 2 got 24.75% over 5 without any work rules or HW changes. The arbitration over bidding and self supporting pools being a possible win/win for both is icing on the cake.  |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 9:11:53 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 8/16/2022 9:17:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOf course they will, the question is do we get a rubber stamped PEB recommendation or something better. I say fuck it, roll the dice |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 9:41:08 PM EDT
[#22]
While having breakfast in Dodge City the other day a couple BNSF train crewman came in and sat near the wife and I.I asked them about the impending strike, to which they both replied that in their books it was a done deal. One of them also thought it would be a long one
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Posted: 8/16/2022 10:07:38 PM EDT
[#23]
I’m pissed. The unions tell us to vote democrat and Biden’s peb gives us this bullshit. Super pissed that the brs proposal was not recommended because the union did such a shitty job of making their case.
I’m definitely voting no and I hope we end up striking. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 10:32:05 AM EDT
[#24]
PEB recommending wage increases between 4-7% through 2024 and retroactive increases of 3.0-3.5% for 2020-2021.
Wage increases split the difference between carrier and union recommendations of 16% and 28%, respectively. One additional day off and five $1000 bonuses. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:34:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: PEB recommending wage increases between 4-7% through 2024 and retroactive increases of 3.0-3.5% for 2020-2021. Wage increases split the difference between carrier and union recommendations of 16% and 28%, respectively. One additional day off and five $1000 bonuses. It will be interesting to see if either the carriers or the union organizations accept it. Especially if the unions put it out for a ratification vote. There is a LOT of pent up anger at how we are being treated. I heard, but haven’t yet seen, that the UP put out a press release basically applauding the recommendation as a well earned raise. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:36:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It will be interesting to see if either the carriers or the union organizations accept it. Especially if the unions put it out for a ratification vote. There is a LOT of pent up anger at how we are being treated. I heard, but haven’t yet seen, that the UP put out a press release basically applauding the recommendation as a well earned raise. The NCCC put out a notice commending it already and the Unions have been quiet. It should be pretty obvious to outsiders who came out ahead. I think the potential forced arbitration over removing extraboards and self supporting pools is going to be enough for even Union leadership to vote no. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:41:09 AM EDT
[#27]
This is the perfect time for them to strike. They are desperately needed to transport products. They know it and we are screwed if they strike.
The coal miners did the same thing during WW2. Had to have coal to power the war industry |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:44:31 AM EDT
[#28]
I guess the railroads are on board with it.
Railroads prepared to reach agreement based on PEB report The National Carriers Conference Committee (NCCC), which represents the nation’s freight railroads in national collective bargaining, today issued the following statement regarding the report of Presidential Emergency Board (PEB) No. 250: The NCCC has received the report and recommendations issued yesterday by PEB 250. The PEB’s recommendations would increase wages by 24% during the five-year period from 2020 through 2024, with a 14.1% wage increase effective immediately. The recommendations also include five annual $1,000 lump sum payments, adjustments to health care premiums, and limited changes to work rules. A portion of the wage increases and lump sum payments would be retroactive, resulting in more than $11,000 on average in immediate payouts to employees. These recommendations, if implemented, would include the most substantial wage increases in decades – with average rail worker wages reaching about $110,000 per year by the end of the agreement. When health care, retirement, and other benefits are considered, the value of rail employees’ total compensation package, which already ranks among the highest in the nation, would average more than $150,000 per year. Although the recommended wage terms significantly exceed those proposed by the carriers in this round and are far above those contained in prior rail labor settlements, it is in the best interests of all stakeholders – including customers, employees, and the public – for the railroads and rail labor organizations to settle this dispute and prevent service disruptions. Accordingly, the railroads are prepared to meet with the rail unions and reach agreements based on the PEB report without delay. We wish to extend our appreciation to PEB Chairman Jaffe and Members Deinhardt and Twomey for their recommendations and service to the parties and the public. Yard office talk so far has pretty much been “Fuck it, let it go to Congress.” Basically to let it burn down. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:45:32 AM EDT
[#29]
I know a guy who left his current job to train as an engineer. He didn't know much other than there was a lot of overtime available.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:52:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Also, lol to the extra PLD when a lot of guys can’t schedule the ones they already have. Or the idea that PLDs are the equivalent of sick leave.
“Hey crew desk, I need to be marked off PLD because I am not feeling well.” Be sure to let us know how that works. What an insultingly uninformed perspective of the situation. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 12:02:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, lol to the extra PLD when a lot of guys can’t schedule the ones they already have. Or the idea that PLDs are the equivalent of sick leave. “Hey crew desk, I need to be marked off PLD because I am not feeling well.” Be sure to let us know how that works. What an insultingly uninformed perspective of the situation. This. I haven't finished going through the whole PEB but there are several places that they don't seem to be factually correct. Offhand thinking we have both PLD's and holidays. PLD's are given in lieu of holidays to jobs that don't observe them which is basically anything but scheduled one's. And you don't even start out with all 11 available. It takes years to build up to that. Good healthcare isn't quite as useful if you have to miss an entire trip to use it. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 12:06:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I haven't finished going through the whole PEB but there are several places that they don't seem to be factually correct. Offhand thinking we have both PLD's and holidays. PLD's are given in lieu of holidays to jobs that don't observe them which is basically anything but scheduled one's. And you don't even start out with all 11 available. It takes years to build up to that. Good healthcare isn't quite as useful if you have to miss an entire trip to use it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Also, lol to the extra PLD when a lot of guys can’t schedule the ones they already have. Or the idea that PLDs are the equivalent of sick leave. “Hey crew desk, I need to be marked off PLD because I am not feeling well.” Be sure to let us know how that works. What an insultingly uninformed perspective of the situation. This. I haven't finished going through the whole PEB but there are several places that they don't seem to be factually correct. Offhand thinking we have both PLD's and holidays. PLD's are given in lieu of holidays to jobs that don't observe them which is basically anything but scheduled one's. And you don't even start out with all 11 available. It takes years to build up to that. Good healthcare isn't quite as useful if you have to miss an entire trip to use it. I don’t know how it works in other railroads, but my understanding is that TYE on the former ATSF side of the BNSF starts off with all 11 PLDs when they hire out. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 12:11:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t know how it works in other railroads, but my understanding is that TYE on the former ATSF side of the BNSF starts off with all 11 PLDs when they hire out. I think you are right on certain parts of former Santa Fe, maybe Coastlines agreement. East West lines it's definitely not. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 12:40:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess the railroads are on board with it. Yard office talk so far has pretty much been “Fuck it, let it go to Congress.” Basically to let it burn down. Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess the railroads are on board with it. Railroads prepared to reach agreement based on PEB report The National Carriers Conference Committee (NCCC), which represents the nation’s freight railroads in national collective bargaining, today issued the following statement regarding the report of Presidential Emergency Board (PEB) No. 250: The NCCC has received the report and recommendations issued yesterday by PEB 250. The PEB’s recommendations would increase wages by 24% during the five-year period from 2020 through 2024, with a 14.1% wage increase effective immediately. The recommendations also include five annual $1,000 lump sum payments, adjustments to health care premiums, and limited changes to work rules. A portion of the wage increases and lump sum payments would be retroactive, resulting in more than $11,000 on average in immediate payouts to employees. These recommendations, if implemented, would include the most substantial wage increases in decades – with average rail worker wages reaching about $110,000 per year by the end of the agreement. When health care, retirement, and other benefits are considered, the value of rail employees’ total compensation package, which already ranks among the highest in the nation, would average more than $150,000 per year. Although the recommended wage terms significantly exceed those proposed by the carriers in this round and are far above those contained in prior rail labor settlements, it is in the best interests of all stakeholders – including customers, employees, and the public – for the railroads and rail labor organizations to settle this dispute and prevent service disruptions. Accordingly, the railroads are prepared to meet with the rail unions and reach agreements based on the PEB report without delay. We wish to extend our appreciation to PEB Chairman Jaffe and Members Deinhardt and Twomey for their recommendations and service to the parties and the public. Yard office talk so far has pretty much been “Fuck it, let it go to Congress.” Basically to let it burn down. With a pay increase well below inflation and one piddly extra day off annually it's more a slap in the face than a realistic proposal. Either way things go I sincerely expect people to quit like crazy. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 1:51:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the potential forced arbitration over removing extraboards and self supporting pools is going to be enough for even Union leadership to vote no. Even less time off and a less predictible "schedule" on pool turns...ehh nope. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 1:56:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t know how it works in other railroads, but my understanding is that TYE on the former ATSF side of the BNSF starts off with all 11 PLDs when they hire out. UP 'old SP Western lines agreement' you get 11pl's for yard jobs and locals. Pool freight has no such thing. You earn PL's based on starts and probably need to have 20yrs senority to earn 9. |
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Posted: 8/17/2022 2:25:41 PM EDT
[#37]
For better or worse, the spice must flow.
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Posted: 8/17/2022 6:25:20 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 8/17/2022 10:58:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2117/8860D1FB-4444-43AC-89F5-69846F5BB2B5_jpe-2492843.JPG Pretty sweet optics there, guys. No way is that gonna get tossed back in your faces. I'd enjoy giving them the chance to prove that lie. |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 12:27:06 AM EDT
[#40]
There needs to be a serious conversation about pulling the senority of any managers that cross the line to run trains, they'll be given a choice. Cross that line and never flow back.
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Posted: 8/18/2022 12:44:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There needs to be a serious conversation about pulling the senority of any managers that cross the line to run trains, they'll be given a choice. Cross that line and never flow back. Revoke their union membership (some managers continue their dues at the Nat’l Only rate) and/or bar them from future SMART/BLET . No union membership, no craft job. |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 11:15:50 AM EDT
[#42]
After following this thread, I wonder if you can get better treatment as an OTR truck driver. Hell, the pay isn't even half bad anymore.
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Posted: 8/18/2022 11:25:15 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After following this thread, I wonder if you can get better treatment as an OTR truck driver. Hell, the pay isn't even half bad anymore. Fuck no. |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 12:02:00 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 8/18/2022 6:36:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote History@juan223 Did they lower the wages from 2019, , $56k in 2019, $50k +3.00 in 2020 ? |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 7:50:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @juan223 Did they lower the wages from 2019, , $56k in 2019, $50k +3.00 in 2020 ? No, they're just showing the wage progression starting at the beginning of each contract assuming the beginning wages at the top of that table. Really not sure why they added the previous one to it like that. Also a little disingenuous to add the 1k bonus each year and calculate that as if it's something useful. I suppose it is in terms of the life of the contract but we specifically asked the board for actual raises and not lump sums from previous messages I saw from Union leadership. |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 7:58:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryWhat are the wage increase categories? |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 8:10:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2117/8860D1FB-4444-43AC-89F5-69846F5BB2B5_jpe-2492843.JPG Pretty sweet optics there, guys. No way is that gonna get tossed back in your faces. i'm just thankful the carriers have kept the infrastructure so well maintained, that allows me to watch them earn profits on those investments, while i try my hardest to destroy those improvements by running trains over their tracks. 
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Posted: 8/18/2022 8:12:10 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are the wage increase categories? Yearly percent increase of the proposed new wages and the HW increased cost per year under the new cap on the left which would start in 2023. The effective compounded % raise total for that year of the contract including both the yearly wage increase and the 1k bonus for each year. Then below what the new yearly total income for that year (with the 1k) the total after subtracting the new HW. It looks screwy because the first two years and change are going to be paid retroactively by back pay and the next one's as they come obviously. |
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Posted: 8/29/2022 10:35:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Railroads reach tentative agreements with three unions
Railroads have reached tentative agreements with three unions as the prospect of a September strike looms. The National Carriers’ Conference Committee, which represents the freight railroads in national collective bargaining, on Monday afternoon said it has reached tentative deals with the Transportation Communications Union/IAM, Brotherhood of Railway Carmen, and International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. Together, these unions represent more than 15,000 rail employees. The other unions involved in negotiations represent 100,000 employees, including engineers and conductors. The tentative agreements are the first to be reached since the Presidential Emergency Board issued settlement recommendations on Aug. 16. The tentative agreements implement the PEB’s recommendations, which include a 24% compounded wage increase during the five-year period from 2020 through 2024 — with a 14.1%wage increase effective immediately — and five annual $1,000 lump sum payments. A portion of the wage increases and lump sum payments are retroactive and will be paid upon ratification of the agreements by the unions’ membership. Divide and conquer, boys. Divide and conquer…. |
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