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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:27:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Samurai Indian tribes were no slouch but the Japanese had better armor and weapons. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:32:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Here’s a picture of an Indian with a katana:
 I don’t know where he got it, and as far as I know no white man knows to this day. My point is, though, that in that era the Japanese weren’t selling them at gift shops. He either won it in battle or was given it as a token of respect. Unless you can show me a 19th Century photo of a Samurai with a tomahawk, I’m gonna have to go with the Indians in this one. 
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:33:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Shaolin or Wu Tang?
 
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:33:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here’s a picture of an Indian with a katana: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/74968/A1A631C9-6DDD-4CAB-A4DD-956E4D6D1916-2393323.jpg I don’t know where he got it, and as far as I know no white man knows to this day. My point is, though, that in that era the Japanese weren’t selling them at gift shops. He either won it in battle or was given it as a token of respect. Unless you can show me a 19th Century photo of a Samurai with a tomahawk, I’m gonna have to go with the Indians in this one. Real talk that thing has to have an interesting backstory. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:34:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nazi Germany in 1939 Or The Eskimo tribes in Alaska? That's pretty much this question I'd like to think the snowbros would team up with the bigfeets and the little people. Even the hardest Krauts are going to lose their shit when they are rushed by sasquatches riding mooses and infiltrated by tiny little devious bastards. All the locals will have to do is sit back and pick off the fleeing Nazis with their .32-20s and .222 Ruger Minis. 
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:42:54 PM EDT
[#6]
The mythical status (or outright fetishizing) of samurai battle prowess (or Japan in general) is probably the reason this thread is the way it is.
The US, technically the most well-armed and well-trained military regulars in the world, struggled for years to defeat the American Indians. They were routed at places like Wabash and Little Bighorn. That includes the equipment advantages the US had. Well before that, the US, France, and Britain certainly struggled to defeat them in early colonial days. And as has been mentioned, the Indians held off the Mexicans and the Spanish in the American southwest for hundreds of years. They were very effective warriors no matter how you want to look at it. Besides, look at Afghanistan. Third-world peasants and goat herders with patchwork armaments, IEDs, dirty nightshirts and flip-flops held off the most powerful and well-funded army in the world for twenty years until they left in defeat. Who had that one on their bingo card? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:43:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol Samurai against illiterate stone-age savages? Ironhandjohn just might come back for a lock cover this comment
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:47:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your asses. AMERICAN Indians all day!!! USA! USA! Patriotic, but wrong. Samurai - tactics, training, discipline, ethos. Natives - courage, balls. But no formal tactics or training, and no unit cohesion/discipline. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:47:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to think the snowbros would team up with the bigfeets and the little people. Even the hardest Krauts are going to lose their shit when they are rushed by sasquatches riding mooses and infiltrated by tiny little devious bastards. All the locals will have to do is sit back and pick off the fleeing Nazis with their .32-20s and .222 Ruger Minis. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nazi Germany in 1939 Or The Eskimo tribes in Alaska? That's pretty much this question I'd like to think the snowbros would team up with the bigfeets and the little people. Even the hardest Krauts are going to lose their shit when they are rushed by sasquatches riding mooses and infiltrated by tiny little devious bastards. All the locals will have to do is sit back and pick off the fleeing Nazis with their .32-20s and .222 Ruger Minis. Idk if they weren't retarded socialist eugenics believers led by a failed art student they could have done a lot more damage. Their equipment was pretty impressive. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:49:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Rommel is the Supreme leader of Germany but doesn't care about the eastern front or Jews
Vs The world Who wins? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:52:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Samurai were professional soldiers that started training as soon as they could walk.
Most Indian tribes would rather be left alone. Some were a lot better at war than others, but not professional soldiers. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:54:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do realize they’re “Native Americans” before any whiteboy dragged his dick ashore. Meh. I have three Native friends that I see somewhat regularly. Two call themselves Indians (both Navajo). My Chickasaw bud prefers First Peoples. It is what it is. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:55:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Patriotic, but wrong. Samurai - tactics, training, discipline, ethos. Natives - courage, balls. But no formal tactics or training, and no unit cohesion/discipline. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your asses. AMERICAN Indians all day!!! USA! USA! Patriotic, but wrong. Samurai - tactics, training, discipline, ethos. Natives - courage, balls. But no formal tactics or training, and no unit cohesion/discipline. they used to drive herds of bison off cliffs, they probably could use that same tactic on the 3ft tall peasant killers. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:55:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: The Samurai with their swords, bow and arrows vs. the most fierce American Indian tribe (Comanche, Sioux, Apache, Kiowa, Cheyenne, etc.) with their tomahawks, spears, bow and arrows. Both with horses. No guns. Who wins and why? Discuss. Fun fact: one of the conquistadors who put ashore at tampa and went tramping north and all over florida and eventually the south/texas area reported that in north florida/panhandle region, they encountered a tribe with archers who shot gigantic bows with huge arrows that hit with enough force ... they reported one of them shot a horse in it's front and when the arrow finally stooped it had protruded from the rump of the horse. One of those "Oh by the way this happened" reports. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:56:22 PM EDT
[#15]
American Indians stomp!
Samurai are too weighted down with gear and adhere to useless rules of engagement. American Indians wipe the floor with their opponents. Samurai = original "tacticool." |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:57:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With our superior fighting force, we lost against rice farmers in pajamas and then later on, rock farmers in pajamas. I guess it would depend who’s turf it happened on. There's a difference between a loss due to the other side militarily winning and a loss due to your side being run by idiot eggheads and moron politicians. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:59:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The mythical status (or outright fetishizing) of samurai battle prowess (or Japan in general) is probably the reason this thread is the way it is. The US, technically the most well-armed and well-trained military regulars in the world, struggled for years to defeat the American Indians. They were routed at places like Wabash and Little Bighorn. That includes the equipment advantages the US had. Well before that, the US, France, and Britain certainly struggled to defeat them in early colonial days. And as has been mentioned, the Indians held off the Mexicans and the Spanish in the American southwest for hundreds of years. They were very effective warriors no matter how you want to look at it. Besides, look at Afghanistan. Third-world peasants and goat herders with patchwork armaments, IEDs, dirty nightshirts and flip-flops held off the most powerful and well-funded army in the world for twenty years until they left in defeat. Who had that one on their bingo card? Put the Indians in Japan, see how long they last. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:59:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The mythical status (or outright fetishizing) of samurai battle prowess (or Japan in general) is probably the reason this thread is the way it is. The US, technically the most well-armed and well-trained military regulars in the world, struggled for years to defeat the American Indians. They were routed at places like Wabash and Little Bighorn. That includes the equipment advantages the US had. Well before that, the US, France, and Britain certainly struggled to defeat them in early colonial days. And as has been mentioned, the Indians held off the Mexicans and the Spanish in the American southwest for hundreds of years. They were very effective warriors no matter how you want to look at it. Besides, look at Afghanistan. Third-world peasants and goat herders with patchwork armaments, IEDs, dirty nightshirts and flip-flops held off the most powerful and well-funded army in the world for twenty years until they left in defeat. Who had that one on their bingo card? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:00:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Patriotic, but wrong. Samurai - tactics, training, discipline, ethos. Natives - courage, balls. But no formal tactics or training, and no unit cohesion/discipline. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your asses. AMERICAN Indians all day!!! USA! USA! Patriotic, but wrong. Samurai - tactics, training, discipline, ethos. Natives - courage, balls. But no formal tactics or training, and no unit cohesion/discipline. I wouldn't go so far as to say no formal training. They had wars between their tribes peoples and nations. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:16:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There ya go..the Comanche were consummate horsemen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Comanche wins easily if it is on horse. There ya go..the Comanche were consummate horsemen. Once euros brought them horses… before that they were assholes on foot that nobody liked… |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:17:50 PM EDT
[#21]
A herd of walrus
or Like a librarian's two cats |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:23:15 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:24:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The mythical status (or outright fetishizing) of samurai battle prowess (or Japan in general) is probably the reason this thread is the way it is. The US, technically the most well-armed and well-trained military regulars in the world, struggled for years to defeat the American Indians. They were routed at places like Wabash and Little Bighorn. That includes the equipment advantages the US had. Well before that, the US, France, and Britain certainly struggled to defeat them in early colonial days. And as has been mentioned, the Indians held off the Mexicans and the Spanish in the American southwest for hundreds of years. They were very effective warriors no matter how you want to look at it. Besides, look at Afghanistan. Third-world peasants and goat herders with patchwork armaments, IEDs, dirty nightshirts and flip-flops held off the most powerful and well-funded army in the world for twenty years until they left in defeat. Who had that one on their bingo card? i suspect that most people ITT are talking about an engagement, not a century-long attempt to colonize a continent. much like early vietnam, the british/US were armed and organized for set-piece, nation-state conflict rather than the kinds of insurgent fights that the indians were willing to accept. like the VC, indians only accepted combat on their terms, which convinced the walter cronkites and jane fondas of the day that the indians were mighty warriors. there is no doubt that they were very capable when they had complete control of engagements and the ability to muster local superiority, but who isn't? they had tremendous physical courage, but so did the bushi. at the end of the day, bushi of the samurai class had vastly superior arms, armor, and training for virtually any kind of fight that the indians were capable of waging. the one objective advantage that the indians had was mobility, which meant that they could have some success at raiding. but like the VC, the indians could never force a decisive military victory--just hope to demoralize the politicians. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:24:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The mythical status (or outright fetishizing) of samurai battle prowess (or Japan in general) is probably the reason this thread is the way it is. The US, technically the most well-armed and well-trained military regulars in the world, struggled for years to defeat the American Indians. They were routed at places like Wabash and Little Bighorn. That includes the equipment advantages the US had. Well before that, the US, France, and Britain certainly struggled to defeat them in early colonial days. And as has been mentioned, the Indians held off the Mexicans and the Spanish in the American southwest for hundreds of years. They were very effective warriors no matter how you want to look at it. Besides, look at Afghanistan. Third-world peasants and goat herders with patchwork armaments, IEDs, dirty nightshirts and flip-flops held off the most powerful and well-funded army in the world for twenty years until they left in defeat. Who had that one on their bingo card? Honestly, The Dogs of War were on a leash. If you wanted the US Military to take the entire country of Afghanistan and were not limited on the weapons/tactics used it would be over in short order. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:25:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Idk if they weren't retarded socialist eugenics believers led by a failed art student they could have done a lot more damage. Their equipment was pretty impressive. They were geographically doomed from the start. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:25:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put the Indians in Japan, see how long they last. Put the Japs in the rocks with the Comanches and see how that goes. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:29:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put the Indians in Japan, see how long they last. Who wants Japan? 
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:32:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were geographically doomed from the start. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Idk if they weren't retarded socialist eugenics believers led by a failed art student they could have done a lot more damage. Their equipment was pretty impressive. They were geographically doomed from the start. Switzerland based. United States based. Everyone else gay |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:34:26 PM EDT
[#29]
How did the technology superior British do against a bunch of Mountain men and Hillbillies in 1775-1783?
Comanche all day long. In fact, a Comanche can beat a Roman Gladiator. Was already proved on Deadliest Warrior show. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:36:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did the technology superior British do against a bunch of Mountain men and Hillbillies in 1775-1783? Comanche all day long. In fact, a Comanche can beat a Roman Gladiator. Was already proved on Deadliest Warrior show. They also said Spetsnaz would beat Delta Force. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:37:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did the technology superior British do against a bunch of Mountain men and Hillbillies in 1775-1783? Comanche all day long. In fact, a Comanche can beat a Roman Gladiator. Was already proved on Deadliest Warrior show. Who is Baron von Steuben? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:38:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also said Spetsnaz would beat Delta Force. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How did the technology superior British do against a bunch of Mountain men and Hillbillies in 1775-1783? Comanche all day long. In fact, a Comanche can beat a Roman Gladiator. Was already proved on Deadliest Warrior show. They also said Spetsnaz would beat Delta Force. Oh, so you have been paying attention! I think that was the cold war Spetsnaz. Much tougher. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:39:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also said Spetsnaz would beat Delta Force. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How did the technology superior British do against a bunch of Mountain men and Hillbillies in 1775-1783? Comanche all day long. In fact, a Comanche can beat a Roman Gladiator. Was already proved on Deadliest Warrior show. They also said Spetsnaz would beat Delta Force. 5 Delta 5 spetznaz 10 bodies Spetsnaz Victory! And that points out how important it is to define victory conditions. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:39:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol Samurai against illiterate stone-age savages? The Comanche stopped Spanish expansion cold and rolled their settlements back about a thousand miles into Mexico, and the Spanish had a lot better gear than the Samurai did. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:40:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, so you have been paying attention! I think that was the cold war Spetsnaz. Much tougher. Was it though? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:41:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is Baron von Steuben? But the Continental army used Mountain men and Hillbilly sharpshooters to snipe all the British officers. That's what broke the back of the British. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:42:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Though I'm going with Samurai just because of the tech advantage, I think I remember reading accounts of Portuguese sailors beating Samurai in duels (correct me if I'm wrong). They were skilled warriors but the legend has far surpassed the reality. The Samurai were awesome at beating unarmed peasants in feudal Japan and doing semi-impressionistic water colors. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:42:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The mythical status (or outright fetishizing) of samurai battle prowess (or Japan in general) is probably the reason this thread is the way it is. The US, technically the most well-armed and well-trained military regulars in the world, struggled for years to defeat the American Indians. They were routed at places like Wabash and Little Bighorn. That includes the equipment advantages the US had. Well before that, the US, France, and Britain certainly struggled to defeat them in early colonial days. And as has been mentioned, the Indians held off the Mexicans and the Spanish in the American southwest for hundreds of years. They were very effective warriors no matter how you want to look at it. Besides, look at Afghanistan. Third-world peasants and goat herders with patchwork armaments, IEDs, dirty nightshirts and flip-flops held off the most powerful and well-funded army in the world for twenty years until they left in defeat. Who had that one on their bingo card? The us at that time was nowhere near a world power. Indians wouldn't have a prayer gains samurai. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:42:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was it though? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Oh, so you have been paying attention! I think that was the cold war Spetsnaz. Much tougher. Was it though? Was the USN Seals tougher 25 years ago? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:43:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fun fact: one of the conquistadors who put ashore at tampa and went tramping north and all over florida and eventually the south/texas area reported that in north florida/panhandle region, they encountered a tribe with archers who shot gigantic bows with huge arrows that hit with enough force ... they reported one of them shot a horse in it's front and when the arrow finally stooped it had protruded from the rump of the horse. One of those "Oh by the way this happened" reports.  things that never happened for 500 alex!
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:44:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Comanche stopped Spanish expansion cold and rolled their settlements back about a thousand miles into Mexico, and the Spanish had a lot better gear than the Samurai did. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: lol Samurai against illiterate stone-age savages? The Comanche stopped Spanish expansion cold and rolled their settlements back about a thousand miles into Mexico, and the Spanish had a lot better gear than the Samurai did. The Spanish didn’t even try. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:45:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Samurai, meh.
The real question is Comanche vs Apache. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:47:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put the Indians in Japan, see how long they last. Put the samurai in New Mexico and Arizona, see how long they last. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:48:00 PM EDT
[#44]
there's a documentary about it.
1:33:00  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:49:45 PM EDT
[#45]
A half eaten turtle
Or 5 pygmies with sharp sticks |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:50:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given equal numbers. And noone gets a tactical surprise advantage. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Samurai wins. X2 Given equal numbers. And noone gets a tactical surprise advantage. That's sort of kneecapping the Indians from the start, since tactical surprise and hit and run tactics is where they made their living, not battles of the line. It's a bit like saying, who wins, long bowmen, or swordsmen, but the fight starts at 2 meters and the bowmen don't have any arrows. The Comanche would raid your weakly defended rear areas, torture anyone they found to death horribly, kill or steal all of your livestock, burn your buildings and fields, and be 600 miles away before you could rally your defenses. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:51:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Post world War Australia with modern armaments and government help
Or Some large flightless birds |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:52:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly, The Dogs of War were on a leash. If you wanted the US Military to take the entire country of Afghanistan and were not limited on the weapons/tactics used it would be over in short order. Oh, absolutely. The US theoretically could have done a ton of damage had they used their full arsenal. But we didn't, and instead chose to fight on a much more level playing field. That even included surveillance and air support along with body armor and superior firepower and that still wasn't enough. What's interesting in this comparison is that the American Indian way of life would probably have led to a lot more training in weapons and tactics that most Afghanis didn't have. These threads are usually a disaster because they make stupid assumptions, like the Apaches or Comanches (or whomever) are going to charge into hand-to-hand combat against fully armored samurai, and I don't think the samurai are going to play into the tactics of the Indians either. I think history shows that superior equipment doesn't always win, and in my opinion the American Indians have a much longer track record of warrior success than do the samurai. They basically repelled the Mongol invasion (which is good) and then lived on reputation for 600 years. The Indians lived with very little peace, and so had to fight to survive a hell of a lot more. I'm not saying all the samurai were the equivalent of Boomer Texans with shiny BBQ guns, but many were. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:57:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With our superior fighting force, we lost against rice farmers in pajamas and then later on, rock farmers in pajamas. I guess it would depend who’s turf it happened on. Or should also be noted that until the Patterson colt and later the colt/walker dragoon American Indians like the Sioux and Comanches often bested American military unless a mountain howitzer (the gun that shoots twice) was involved. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 5:57:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If all of the wheels and technological advancements are what leads to 2022, Fuck the white man I'm out! Seriously tho, the native way isn't lost or as savage as ones public school educations can lead to believe. There were many strong Nations that very much lived a modern life they were however stamped out by big government and the jokes on the westerners now. Your the Indian today muthafuckas and The United States is the Rez. What happens to the Rez that suckles the US’s teet when the teet runs dry to a culture that cannot sustain itself and has not for 1.5 centuries? |
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