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Posted: 5/26/2001 2:28:25 PM EDT
The bug bit years ago, but I'm actually thinking about taking the plunge for an M16. I think I am finally losing my mind.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 2:34:26 PM EDT
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Gus, come over to the dark side. Its where you belong. You know you want to. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... (more evil laughter) BTW - whats the deal on our little PA shoot?
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 2:44:43 PM EDT
There you are!!! It's all YOUR fault!!! Nah, I've been thinking about it for a long time. The sad thing is, I don't really know why. With prices the way they are, I really think I must be out of my mind. But, it's do-able and it might not always be. What really scares me is I know if I buy an M16, then I will absolutely have to have more before long. I gotta retire sometime in the next 30 years... As far as I know, the shoot is set for the 30th of June. There is a thread in the Events forum.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 2:48:18 PM EDT
If you, then so am I. As soon as I complete the next three ARs, they're going to assist funding a CIII. Like you I crave an M16. [bounce] Also a .50 cal would be nice, no CIII! [:D]
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 2:49:52 PM EDT
Hehe! I fired a fully automatic BushMaster M4A1 carbine,it was fun.But,unless you've got cash,I did'nt see the point of blowing tons of cash on taxes and whatnot for class 3 weapons in this country.It was actually one of the first weapons I've ever fired....talk about jumping into the DEEP END!!! :) not too mention the INSANE ammo consumption.The 30 round mag was going too fast to count,I kept hearing "cha-ching" noises in my head as I fired.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 2:50:43 PM EDT
do you really want to jump threw all the government hoops????not worth it IMHO
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 2:53:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Older Crow: If you, then so am I. As soon as I complete the next three ARs, they're going to assist funding a CIII. Like you I crave an M16. [bounce] Also a .50 cal would be nice, no CIII! [:D]
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Ya know, now that you mention it, I could sell my existing AR collection and just about pay for it. Nah, that wouldn't work, then I'd just have to buy a bunch more AR's.....
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 3:00:36 PM EDT
If you do it, you've actually picked a pretty good time; prices are soft, actually down, and don't seem to be getting any steeper. Until the economy picks up a bit more, I think its going to be a flat market. I just wish I had more disposable income right now so I could buy some more stuff at the current prices. I say get the 16. For NFA stuff, its the biggest bang for the buck out there. With one gun, you can get a whole mess of calibers, uppers, and barrels and use it like it was several different guns. The .22 kits are a scream and they cut the ammo cost. A 9mm conversion will allow you to shoot at indoor ranges and compete in subgun matches. Maybe a LMG upper and beta mag if you really want to hammer away.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 3:05:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2001 3:04:26 PM EDT by gus]
You're not making this any easier, Shag! [8D] That's the approach I was thinking of. One lower and a collection of different uppers. I don't like the idea of a DIAS, so it would have to be a real 16. And none of those gay 3 rd burst trigger groups either! Nobody actually ruins a transferrable M16 with that crap do they?
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 3:07:45 PM EDT
do you really want to jump threw all the government hoops????not worth it IMHO
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There's not really much in the way of hoops. All you have to do is get your local sheriff to put his signature on the back of the forms, and send everything to BATF. About 90 days later you get approved and can take possession of your weapon. The biggest hoop is paying for it.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 3:13:23 PM EDT
Gus -to be honest, I have several DIAS's and I like them...a lot. They're practically indestructable, and because they are a simple design, thy can be easily repaired if something ever does happen. You can toss one in a post ban receiver and assemble it with all the nasty features you want. Then shoot the living snot out of the gun and really use it. Unlike a registered receiver, you can replace EVERY part (except the sear, which sits well protected inside the walls of the receiver). If I had a reg. receiver, I'd have to worry about scratching, denting, or dinging my receiver - maybe not the upper, but I'd always have to be a little worried about the lower. No such worries with a sear gun.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 3:23:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2001 3:21:54 PM EDT by gus]
Originally Posted By shaggy: Gus -to be honest, I have several DIAS's and I like them...a lot. They're practically indestructable, and because they are a simple design, thy can be easily repaired if something ever does happen. You can toss one in a post ban receiver and assemble it with all the nasty features you want. Then shoot the living snot out of the gun and really use it. Unlike a registered receiver, you can replace EVERY part (except the sear, which sits well protected inside the walls of the receiver). If I had a reg. receiver, I'd have to worry about scratching, denting, or dinging my receiver - maybe not the upper, but I'd always have to be a little worried about the lower. No such worries with a sear gun.
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Hadn't thought about it that way. It might be easier to protect from theft too than a complete gun. Which part of the DIAS is the registered part - the part you REALLY don't want to break? Also, aren't different lowers machined differently internally? I have noticed differences just using an accu-wedge. Still keeping an open mind.....
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 3:44:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2001 4:07:11 PM EDT by drfcolt]
Yea, RDIAS is a real good solution, but there's nothing like looking at your lower receiver and seeing this (and knowing it belongs to you): [img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=258760&a=7202094&p=27135145[/img] A guy over on subguns.com (Brian Prichard) has several M16 model 604's (marked as "M16" not "AR15/Model 604") for $5,600 each - good price for a factory Colt. An RDIAS is going to cost you probably $4,500. Just add $1,100 for a factory Colt M16 - not bad. Here's a link to his ad: [url]subguns.biggerhammer.net/nfaad.cgi?read=50828[/url] I see you live in PA, Dennis Todd always has a bunch of M16's. If you want to go top end he, had a NIB factory Colt M16-A2 for $9,500 and a new, but with no box one for $9,000. He probably has M16-A1's in stock for a more reasonable price. Last ones I saw were about $6,000. These were M16-A1's, not M16's. If you possibly can, buy in state. It saves alot of headaches (state-to-state transfers, not seeing what you are getting until it gets to your dealer, ...). Also, you should handle and examine something that costs this month before starting any paper work. My dealer (Arms's & Ordnance) has a mint factory M16-A1 carbine for sale for $7,500 with a optional 9MM set-up for another $1,000. That's the asking price. He may sell it for less. I paid less for mine than listed price from him. I handled this gun, and it is absolutly like new. Factory Colt end-to-end and a factory 14" carbine (not an M4 - they only exist as post-samples), not a standard 20" rifle.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 4:04:11 PM EDT
The part you don't want to break is the "U" shaped body. The trip lever that sticks up can be replaced, and you can even have extras on hand. Thre are slight differences in lowers, but you can usually take care of it by slightly sanding out the inside of the lower if its too tight or using some JB weld on the rear push pin post of the upper if its too loose. Its not usually much of a problem. Here's about $17,000. worth of metal... [img]wsphotofews.excite.com/034/1m/xw/PD/2P79008.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 4:24:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2001 4:23:58 PM EDT by drfcolt]
Biggest downside (besides cost) is getting modern black uppers to match the early Colt gray color. Factory Colt 9MM conversions and factory Colt M4 uppers match exactly, as do factory 11.5" Commando uppers.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 4:30:51 PM EDT
I'd love to go class III. My brother has already -- he's been through military background checks enough already to the point where class III is comparatively easy. Problem: in S.C., it just means you can own silencers. Bah.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 4:37:49 PM EDT
There are no licensing requirments mentioned in the 2nd Amendment.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 4:46:02 PM EDT
drfcolt - You're right about external appearances. Even the existence of the sear pin hole is cool. You're in Pa - if I decide to do it can I seek your advice on a dealer? Not sure what part of the state you are in. Imbroglio - Maybe there aren't, but I'm not going to do time over a desire to go full auto. Shag - now see what I mean??? I already want both a sear gun for shooting and a receiver gun for looking at!! God help me if I ever get a yearning for a belt-fed....Any filthy rich elderly people out there that want to adopt an appreciative new son????
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 5:19:14 PM EDT
Ok, I've wanted a CIII ever since I found out what it was. Thing is... how do I get one? [>:/]
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 5:21:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2001 5:29:11 PM EDT by drfcolt]
gus, I'm new to NFA myself, but learning fast. Last year at this time I had just an AR-15 based SBR (that's what got the NFA monkey on my back when I found that my CLEO would sign with no problem). Now I have or have Form 4's in for two M16's (factory Colt M16-A1, EA/Wilson RR), an SBR, and three Gemtech silencers (M4-96D for my factory Colt M16-A1 with factory Colt 11.5" Commando upper, Talon-SD 9MM suppressed upper that I'm going to use with the EA/Wilson RR for a dedicated Colt 9MM SMG, Hornet 22LR full-auto suppressor for my M16 22LR set-up that I keep mostly on my SBR but use occassionally on my M16). I've only used one dealer so far (Arms & Ordnance). He usually doesn't have many M16's available. He happened to have the one's I wanted. He's located in Warrensdale, just north of Pittsburgh. Dennis Todd is THE man in PA (and most of the USA) for M16's. He's located near the Philly airport. I'm located in central PA. That's the main reason I have silencers for all of my MG's - makes it alot easier to find places to shoot when your quieter that the old boys with the bolt guns and muzzle loaders.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 8:02:30 PM EDT
If you can drop 6k without putting a 2nd on the house it's great way to go. The process for getting registered is a bit slow but a one time registration fee of $200 bucks is not all that expensive. Take care of your investment and you will always be able to get your money back (and more). People love to see these things and especially love to shoot them. It was a 5 minutes process for my CLEO sign off but another 15 minutes talking M-16 to a bunch of full auto starved deputies. Even my local ATF office was helpful with whatever questions I had. Bottom line...own a piece of history!
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 8:32:15 PM EDT
I'll throw in here as a full auto "owner". I am in a No-MG state at school. So my full auto stuff goes to my brother out of state. I pay the tax to him, and when I get done with school, I will get them transfered back to me. Biggest problem most people have is the CLEO sign off. If you can legally own MG's in your state, and you regularly pass NICS with standard firearm purchases, you should have no problem with the ATF. Some CLEO's won't sign. I lived in an area where he wouldn't see you (so you couldn't force him to sign in court as he did not technically "refuse" to sign). One other route is incorporating, and having the corporation buy the guns. That being said, Full auto is addicting. I cannot have them here in IL, but I am still buying them as I get funds. My brother has (my) FNC and a MAC 10/.45 is waiting on a Form 4. I have a deposit down on an HK 33 with the balance due in a few weeks. I am also seriously considering a Vector UZI. The M-16 is a perfect (except for the $4500+ cost) first NFA item. The UZI is also a good first choice. Basically due to the versatility of both. After that, you will start to look at belt feds, supressed guns, etc. Good shooting!! AFARR
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 9:04:49 PM EDT
Let's see now. Asking permission to exercise one of your rights. As if that is not enough, paying 10X the real value for a weapon should be (not to mention registering and paying taxes on top of that). The anti-gunners have succeeded--they have successfully placed full auto beyond the legal means of most folks. Truly disgusting.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 11:34:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DJbump:Let's see now. Asking permission to exercise one of your rights. As if that is not enough, paying 10X the real value for a weapon should be (not to mention registering and paying taxes on top of that). The anti-gunners have succeeded--they have successfully placed full auto beyond the legal means of most folks. Truly disgusting.
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I know what you mean. Still, class III is tempting, but like you said it is out of my reach as I am a regular folk
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 5:47:33 AM EDT
The only way the antis have won is if you show them that your willingness to give up your guns has a price. They caused the price to raise untill you were no longer willing to pay the price. In this case they did it with money, but in your case I think you would have given up your guns for many other reasons when your personal cost became too high. Since you won't spend money for guns then I can only assume you would trade your guns for things like shiney new cars and a fancy house also. Since both of those items can be had with money also. To sum it all up, If you can't shoot it, Eat it, or have sex with it, Then it has no real value. In a SHTF scenario just how long are you gonna last eating those wheel barrows full of money you value so high? I reccomend you go the full auto route, you will not regret it, you can always buy a new car they make them all the time, you can not always buy a new machine gun.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 5:58:30 AM EDT
Class three YEAAAA. NY NOOOOOO
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 6:44:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2001 7:01:04 AM EDT by DJbump]
David Hineline-- Had to take a minute to calm myself and formulate a response. If you were anywhere in my vicinity I would snatch you up and knock some sense into you. First of all, the only thing I value more highly than firearms and the liberty they protect is the Creator his own damn self. Secondly, I recognize and identify money for what it truly is--one of the chains of our enslavement. I have not now, nor will I ever value money more than guns, GOD or freedom. You missed my point entirely. I said the antis have won by excluding most folks LEGALLY because of money from owning full auto. And unfortunately, most folks have not the moral conviction to do anything other than what their benevolent lawmakers allow them to. In addition, most folks simply do not have the money to go the legal route, and since most of these folks would go no other way, the antis have won in that regard. I on the other hand abide by the law of Creator. I will NEVER abide by man's law where it diverges from the pursuit of life, love and liberty. I will not ask massa for permission to exercise a RIGHT GIVEN BY GOD, nor will I pay tax and submit to registration either. You apparently need to learn the difference between rights and government privileges (which since they are dependent on the good-nature of the GOVT may be limited or withdrawn entirely at their whim).
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 7:48:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:01:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: Don't know if you're nuts, but being at least well-to-do wouldn't hurt. safe shooting
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I'm not rich, but I'm not starving either. If I do go class II it will be financed at least partially by selling off other possessions. The guns all stay. Anybody want to buy some guitars? Hipo car parts? American Flyer trains? Shag - after sleeping on it, I think the RDIAS might be the way to go for me. It's the cheapest way in the door, and like you said, it would allow me to convert one of my post ban's into an evil nasty "nonban". I already know that won't be the end of it, so I can get a receiver gun next time around.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:29:58 AM EDT
Personally, I think the DIAS is the way to go... Basically, It enables you to make any of your AR-15's into full auto guns...in just a few minutes... Also, it legally permits you to own the full auto trigger group required for the conversion... Am I correct ??? (A real M-16 would be nice too!!) Just sell the Challenger Gus...[:)] That should provide plenty-o-$$$ for the classIII plunge !!! I guarantee you, if I ever sell my Camaro, it WILL be replaced with a few classIII toys !!! (not ready for 2nd mortgage yet)
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:40:00 AM EDT
Don't forget guys... June 30 at paspecops place... I'm bringing my wife, and also have 3 buddies from my local range that want to come for sure... should be a blast !!! So far,I'm bringing 3 AR's (one is a recently aquired PRE-ban), 2 AK-47's and a Beretta 92FS. I should have AR #4 built before the shoot though...(waiting on ordered parts) Sorry, no Full Auto stuff though...
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:46:48 AM EDT
Yeah, I think you're nuts. Paying way too much money for an expensive bullet hose that just gets you on BATF's short list of interesting people isn't sane, IMHO. And Imbroglio, enough with the broken-record routine. It's really getting old.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 8:56:46 AM EDT
"Just sell the Challenger Gus..." Your'e starting to sound like my father!!!! I don't wanna sell it!!! At least not yet. I have other toys that can go to the cause for now. I figure I'll need about $5k or so to go the RDIAS route, counting buying full auto internal parts, taxes, etc. Heck, I can save up half that in a few months without too much trouble (if I just stop buying semi's and mags). I think it might be time to begin the process of rounding up stuff and taking pics for eBay. The Challenger provides the same kind of adrenaline rush as full auto. WAY more expensive though and a lot more dangerous. I've got about $3k worth of guitars I don't play anymore, and that would leave another $3k worth for those times when I feel like playing. I think they go first! Also have some parts (holley carbs, old Mopar parts, etc.) that would generate some bux. Last time I moved I wondered why I keep some of the crap I dragged along - I guess it's time to lighten the load.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 9:06:20 AM EDT
I saw an M-60 for less than I paid for my wife's new van. I have to register and pay taxes on the van every year. And the price of gas is nearing what it would cost in belt-fed .308. Hmmm.....If we get rid of the van and get an old clunker we can have an M-60!!!!! I somehow don't think my wife will see my reasoning. But stranger things have happened. Maybe with steel core I could duck hunt??? [pyro]
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 9:08:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2001 9:08:50 AM EDT by dragracerart]
Gus... You definately can make some $$$ with Mopar parts... A good friend of mine makes $20,000+ a year just peddling rare mopar stuff on E-bay...Amazing!!! Chevy stuff is too abundant to make much $$$...Maple Grove flea market is swamped with Chevy stuff... Mopar stuff seems to pull a lot of $$$... BTW (My dad tells me to sell my car all the time too!)[:)]
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 9:17:08 AM EDT
Art - I have like 4 pairs of tail light lenses for a `70 Charger. When I got them back in the late `80's they cost about $20 a pair. I've seen them go on eBay for $200 a pair. We used to make a killing parting out cars and hauling the parts to E-Town or Carlisle. Now that the internet is here, it may be easier! Still have to go to the swaps to unload the very heavy stuff though.. Another example - `Cuda rear panel chrome trim - BIG CASH! Small bolt pattern Rallye wheels came on Darts and Dusters - now sell for well over $600 a set if you have mint chrome trim with them..
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 10:13:03 AM EDT
Go on and do it. Join the club. The M16 is the way to go but I would only look at the factory Colt stuff. It will always be worth more money than a conversion. Parts are everywhere and you can get a 9mm upper and a 22 conversion unit and have 3 guns in one. My .02 worth
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 11:11:29 AM EDT
David Hineline - You are not a nice man, when I read "If you can't shoot it, Eat it, or have sex with it, Then it has no real value" I sprayed hot coffee all over my computer. You should put a warning, for people to swallow their coffee, before you make such incredibly funny and true statements. Shaggy - Let me re-phrase what you said, to insure that I fully understand it. If one gets a classIII license for a full auto M-16, then once you legally have this fully auto M-16 you can legally change the upper to say 9mm or .22 or purchase new .223 uppers and use the legal fully auto lower receiver for all of them, and all of this is completely legal by the BATF. Please correct any errors in my above statement. Thanks. And a question for all, say I legally have a fully auto M-16 and I live on the east coast somewhere and I want to visit my buddy who has a ranch in Montana and I wish to take my legal full auto M-16 along. Is it legal for me to carry by car this fully auto M-16 through all the states, unloaded and safely stored of course, which I drive through? Would it be legal for me to fly with the things? Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 11:21:28 AM EDT
"Shaggy - Let me re-phrase what you said, to insure that I fully understand it. If one gets a classIII license for a full auto M-16, then once you legally have this fully auto M-16 you can legally change the upper to say 9mm or .22 or purchase new .223 uppers and use the legal fully auto lower receiver for all of them, and all of this is completely legal by the BATF. Please correct any errors in my above statement. Thanks." Yep - that's totally correct. In fact, if you only have a registered "drop in auto sear" (RDIAS), you can use it in ANY AR15 lower, including post-ban. Further, if I understand this correctly, once you install the RDIAS in a post ban lower, it becomes a machine gun which exempts it from all the Brady pre-post concerns. You can have flash hiders, bayonet lugs, tele stock, etc., all legally on a post ban lower. They sure know how to write sensible laws, don't they??? I don't know the answer to you other question, but I suspect there are strict guidelines.... Post ban Bushy - future machine gun???? [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/035/t6/JX/QU/4x93050.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 11:54:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2001 11:53:16 AM EDT by Imbroglio]
Originally Posted By Sparky315: And Imbroglio, enough with the broken-record routine. It's really getting old.
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Ya that Constitution and Bill of Rights is outdated and we don't need it anymore. You don't like it? Join HCI/VPC/MMM.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 12:22:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io:
Originally Posted By Sparky315: And Imbroglio, enough with the broken-record routine. It's really getting old.
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Ya that Constitution and Bill of Rights is outdated and we don't need it anymore. You don't like it? Join HCI/VPC/MMM.
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I think what he meant was that you're preaching to the choir here.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 12:42:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2001 12:48:10 PM EDT by drfcolt]
gus, I don't know, those factory M16's for $5,600 start to look real good when you are starting at about $4,600 ($4,500 for DIAS, $100 for FA fire-control) for an RDIAS set-up. Here's a link to that ad again: [url]subguns.biggerhammer.net/nfaad.cgi?read=50828[/url] Spend the extra $1,000 now and I'm sure it will come back to you in added value before the RDIAS set-up. Plus you have a [b]factory Colt M16[/b]. Just the words give me about half a gristle. The prices are down and this is the time to strike. And on a vain note. If someone asks you "is that an M16?". Just show them the receiver marked "Colt M16" and "SAFE-SEMI-AUTO", not trying to explain: "well its an AR-15 with a register DIAS ......, but it's the same thing". Just my humble opinion. They're like ass-holes, you know, everyone has one!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 12:47:46 PM EDT
If I had the cash in hand, I might jump on it. I will need a little fundraising time, several months probably. I'm still undecided, but I'll probably get a DIAS and then a real one. Damn! Haven't even decided for sure whether to do it and already I want two of them!!!!
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 12:53:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2001 12:57:31 PM EDT by drfcolt]
gus, Take out a short-term loan. My credit union (PSECU), has something called a "signature loan". Gets you a quick $5,000 and the payments are $100 a month and the loan can be paid off any time. Your not locked into making payments for any period. Find something similar and pay it off when you acumulate your funds. So you'll pay a few bucks in interest - you'll get back with this investment. Worked for me. If you have to, use your Challanger for collateral. Just an idea.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 1:43:06 PM EDT
The original intent of the $200 tax in 1934 was to price machineguns out of the reach of mortal men. Now with the price of M16's leveling off from their meteoric rises in the last few years, it's a good time to jump in. There were only so many of them made for public consumption before 1986 and so they don't really de-value if they are factory guns. ...unless of course the government says no more machine guns period.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 1:57:26 PM EDT
It's a one time tax, and you can pass it on to your heirs. That's money better spent than what I pay for lunch during a month. Besides full-auto, you get a lot of other perks.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 2:04:06 PM EDT
Gus had it right, that was my point. Imbroglio, if you don't have anything meaningful to add to the conversation at hand, other than to throw out the same one-liners that we've all heard before, why don't you keep your cake-hole shut? I think everyone here feels the same about the federal gun-control laws. Why don't you get on HCI's website and pop off to the folks who need it? You're just insulting everyone else's intelligence here.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 2:36:21 PM EDT
[b]Also a .50 cal would be nice, no CIII! [/b] Not yet anyways!
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 2:46:41 PM EDT
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't beilieve that a DIAS permits you to add preban features to a post-ban rifle. Only a registered receiver gun can be set up anything-goes.
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 3:01:34 PM EDT
the evil features are ok as long as the DIAS is in the gun. as soon as the sear is removed its a no-no! so why not buy a recvr and keep the evil features?
Link Posted: 5/27/2001 6:23:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2001 6:24:08 PM EDT by Getsome]
Originally Posted By Sitting Bull: Shaggy - Let me re-phrase what you said, to insure that I fully understand it. If one gets a classIII license for a full auto M-16, then once you legally have this fully auto M-16 you can legally change the upper to say 9mm or .22 or purchase new .223 uppers and use the legal fully auto lower receiver for all of them, and all of this is completely legal by the BATF. Please correct any errors in my above statement. Thanks.
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Yes. The receiver "is" the machine gun. The uppers are just window dressing.
And a question for all, say I legally have a fully auto M-16 and I live on the east coast somewhere and I want to visit my buddy who has a ranch in Montana and I wish to take my legal full auto M-16 along. Is it legal for me to carry by car this fully auto M-16 through all the states, unloaded and safely stored of course, which I drive through? Would it be legal for me to fly with the things? Thanks.
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I do not know all the particulars but yes you can travel with it but...you need to fill out a form to obtain permisson to do so. I forget the number but I have heard that they (ATF), will return this one quickly and you can even get an extension for up to a year for a location you frequent. Go to full Auto board for better info.
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