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Posted: 1/24/2022 3:13:45 PM EDT
[#1]
America is a Third world shit hole.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 3:18:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: America is a Third world shit hole. Not totally, but it's headed there faster than a speeding bullet. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 3:20:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doctor's and nurses make decisions to artificially limit the labor supply through their professional associations. This isn't really in dispute. Big fighting going on between MDA's (anesthesiologists) and CRNA's going on for years. The CRNA to MDA ratio is something like 6:1 in SC. MDA's are pushing for Anesthesiology Assistants that can work at less than half the cost (and training) of a CRNA but they want to increase the ratio to 3:1 so it puts more MDA's on the payroll. And there is a new requirement now where a CRNA has to have a Doctorate degree, no longer a Masters. Basically a person wanting to push drugs might as well become an MDA since the education requirements are so close. Wife has to deal with a few MDA's that won't get off their ass and come in a room to check on things unless an alarm goes off somewhere. Her last job the MDA that owned the company kept his 75 yo Dad on staff. They were from India and he could hardly speak english and would just give a shoulder shrug andn laugh it off when asked tough questions. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 3:40:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have made no significant point that aren’t based on appeals to emotion and the points you try to make are only surface deep. You state you “know” people in the field as your source of authority which is laughable and that your wife is European and you use their healthcare (which somehow makes you an expert on models of medicine as well). In the end, you have opinions (however wrong they may be) based on anecdotes. Which is fine, by all means keep on keeping on. Those of us who have an understanding at a higher than “high school” level (your words, not mine) will continue to have robust debates while you sit in the corner and do what people like you do best- complain. Do stay in this thread though, some of us are having a good chuckle at your expertise. The whole thread is an extension of your bitching. My source of authority is facts - none of which you've been able to make a solid counterpoint to. Keep chuckling - it's a normal human nervous reaction when you feel and look stupid around other people. 
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Posted: 1/24/2022 3:46:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The judge is ok with indentured servitude it would seem. They didn't agree to any of this bullshit. They didnt have a contract of any kind. This is slavery. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 3:48:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would call it straight up slavery. They didn't agree to any of this bullshit. They didnt have a contract of any kind. This is slavery.  You just can't make this stuff up. GD always delivers. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 4:07:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The whole thread is an extension of your bitching. My source of authority is facts - none of which you've been able to make a solid counterpoint to. Keep chuckling - it's a normal human nervous reaction when you feel and look stupid around other people. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You have made no significant point that aren’t based on appeals to emotion and the points you try to make are only surface deep. You state you “know” people in the field as your source of authority which is laughable and that your wife is European and you use their healthcare (which somehow makes you an expert on models of medicine as well). In the end, you have opinions (however wrong they may be) based on anecdotes. Which is fine, by all means keep on keeping on. Those of us who have an understanding at a higher than “high school” level (your words, not mine) will continue to have robust debates while you sit in the corner and do what people like you do best- complain. Do stay in this thread though, some of us are having a good chuckle at your expertise. The whole thread is an extension of your bitching. My source of authority is facts - none of which you've been able to make a solid counterpoint to. Keep chuckling - it's a normal human nervous reaction when you feel and look stupid around other people. You’ve evaded my points intentionally a few pages ago. Now we are laughing. Anyway:
Appears they are on break and closing arguments will occur soon. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 4:15:26 PM EDT
[#8]
If hospital 1 does not want to pay those employees market value what law in WI allows them to keep the employees from going somewhere else?
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Posted: 1/24/2022 4:21:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If hospital 1 does not want to pay those employees market value what law in WI allows them to keep the employees from going somewhere else? Damned good question. The judge is an imbecile. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 4:45:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Performing an IV is something the Army teaches privates in 1 day of the combat lifesaver course. Like working at Dunkin' Donuts - it's not rocket science that's for damn sure. Yes man - it's the same exact thing! What is the population in the army? Geriatrics? The obese? Pedriatrics? Exactly how much liability does a private bear vs a RN for mucking up a procedure? |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 4:54:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Horseshit! The reason for $18 aspirin is all of the freeloaders packing ER's and ICU's. My wife is an ICU traveler, and she said about half their patients are freeloaders with zero insurance. But I do agree administration is also a major factor. The one thing my wife loves about traveling is she doesn't have to deal with all the administrative bullshit. Impossible - expatriate in this thread who is smarter than everyone says we have socialized medicine. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 4:57:54 PM EDT
[#12]
TRO dismissed.
they can go to work tomorrow. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:12:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Impossible - expatriate in this thread who is smarter than everyone says we have socialized medicine. What we have is a clusterfuck of 870 different medical payment systems. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:15:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Update in OP
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:16:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The hospital suing told the employees who want to leave to ignore the judges order and come back to work stating that it’s unenforceable. Not kidding probably an effort to stave off the upcoming lost wages damage judgement that hopefully a SMART judge will issue |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:17:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TRO dismissed. they can go to work tomorrow. Thank you for the update. 
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:19:57 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:21:14 PM EDT
[#18]
...
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:31:10 PM EDT
[#19]
ThedaCare: We won't pay you as much as Ascension, but you can't leave us.
 If I were one of the workers; it'd be a cold day in hell before I'd go back to ThedaCare. 
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:35:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ThedaCare: We won't pay you as much as Ascension, but you can't leave us. If I were one of the workers; it'd be a cold day in hell before I'd go back to ThedaCare. And if I were a current employee there, I'd be looking elsewhere right now. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:42:40 PM EDT
[#21]
This is now a Covid thread according to the complaint.
 Attached FileUnCivil law went through the filed court documents.  ThedaCare promotes indentured servitude @lawfulmasses\u200b |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:48:43 PM EDT
[#22]
ThedaCare has removed posting of comments on their FB page
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:53:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ThedaCare has removed posting of comments on their FB page Imagine that! |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 5:55:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You just can't make this stuff up. GD always delivers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would call it straight up slavery. They didn't agree to any of this bullshit. They didnt have a contract of any kind. This is slavery. You just can't make this stuff up. GD always delivers. You're told you're not allowed to quit your job... to work anywhere else. You have been given the choice to either work for your employer... FOREVER,... or be forced into unemployment, and be LEGALLY BARRED from other employment. How is that not slavery?! |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:00:58 PM EDT
[#25]
The filing made by Ascention's lawyers today was pure artwork. Rarely are legal submissions written like this. It utterly slams Theda Care.
PDF: Ascention Brief Jan 24 |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:01:49 PM EDT
[#26]
 Attached File Attached FileStatement from management to workers. Tugging on the heart strings but never admitting they could have kept things as they were if they were willing to pay the market wage. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:02:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Civil suit should be launched against the judge. No one is above the law so fuck those judges who think they can do whatever the fuck they want.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:03:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That judge is a tard Pics of hot nurses minus dudes. 
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:08:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which of course might be the case if they hadn't been in cahoots with politicians to make artificially high barriers to entry into the profession for generations. I guess you're okay with them taking more and more of your tax dollars while espousing "muh free market" but some of us are not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The free market solution here is for nurses to "overpaid" long enough to attract new people to the profession to balance things out. Letting a judge stick his dick in it doesn't help the problem long term. Which of course might be the case if they hadn't been in cahoots with politicians to make artificially high barriers to entry into the profession for generations. I guess you're okay with them taking more and more of your tax dollars while espousing "muh free market" but some of us are not. "Artificially high barriers to entry into the profession for generations"?? WTF are you talking about. Going to nursing school is an "artificially high barrier"? Did you flunk out of nursing school or something? |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:09:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The filing made by Ascention's lawyers today was pure artwork. Rarely are legal submissions written like this. It utterly slams Theda Care. PDF. Ascention Brief Jan 24 Link no worky |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:13:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Link no worky Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The filing made by Ascention's lawyers today was pure artwork. Rarely are legal submissions written like this. It utterly slams Theda Care. PDF. Ascention Brief Jan 24 Link no worky Try This |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:25:14 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:28:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The filing made by Ascention's lawyers today was pure artwork. Rarely are legal submissions written like this. It utterly slams Theda Care. PDF. Ascention Brief Jan 24 Link no worky Try This Brutal |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:35:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The filing made by Ascention's lawyers today was pure artwork. Rarely are legal submissions written like this. It utterly slams Theda Care. PDF. Ascention Brief Jan 24 Link no worky Try This “Your failure to prepare is not my personal emergency.” This wry observation—a favorite of parents, teachers, coaches, and perhaps a fe w judges—concisely captures the core concept of personal responsibility most ofus learned in childhood: don’t blame others for your own mistakes. Evidently that concept is lost on ThedaCare. With this frantic, last-minute lawsuit, ThedaCare attempts to convert its own poor management into a disruptive personal emergency for everyone—anyone—but itself: Ascension, this Court, and (worst of all)seven essential health care workers who, until Friday, believed they were starting new jobs on Monday morning |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:43:17 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:55:49 PM EDT
[#36]
 UPDATE: Judge Lifts Hospital TRO! He explains what the judge was trying to do. As someone here pointed out, the issue is not just the seven workers, it is everyone working at the first hospital. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 6:57:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Today I learned that $27/hr is considered "vastly overpaid".
$27/hr is about the average starting pay for nurses in my area. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 7:00:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That judge is a tard Yep. The workers are free to be hired by another institution. Interference with contract. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 7:06:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Work" |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 7:21:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryHoly rug burns batman!  I got stress factures and 2nd degree burns just from reading that! |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 7:23:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Government will always be involved in health care because of human nature. Hypothetical "what-if" arguments with zero chance of ever happening aren't worth the effort to argue. In terms of improvement - we can stop letting health care industries avoid truth-in-pricing laws. I should know being charged for that $30 band-aid before I decide to pay for it. Of course - this will reduce health care industry profits and nurse wages might have to realign with what their labor is actually worth. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m not advocating government control but let me misrepresent a government action to support my position. If not letting the market decide the salary then what if not government control? Government will always be involved in health care because of human nature. Hypothetical "what-if" arguments with zero chance of ever happening aren't worth the effort to argue. In terms of improvement - we can stop letting health care industries avoid truth-in-pricing laws. I should know being charged for that $30 band-aid before I decide to pay for it. Of course - this will reduce health care industry profits and nurse wages might have to realign with what their labor is actually worth. Your argument is nothing but a non-sequitor. You say you’re not for central management then say you are. Nothing you posted has anything to do with why these staff members should be prohibited from working for the employer of their choosing rather than the one the government chooses is more important. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 7:27:52 PM EDT
[#42]
That lawyer deserves an award for his writing. It is beautiful.
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Posted: 1/24/2022 8:06:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryRead most of it, awesome! And LMAO over some parts. "ThedaCare brought this on themselves". A lot of this is the same stuff that has been discussed "as infinitum" in other job threads. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:32:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doctor's and nurses make decisions to artificially limit the labor supply through their professional associations. This isn't really in dispute. Further, they're providing a service that isn't a "free market" good. Hence $30 band-aids and $18 aspirin charged to people and their families while they're in a coma not simply being an "exception." Think about it critically and the answer is pretty obvious to anyone that's not in on the take. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do you think that it is doctors and nurses making the decisions to expand healthcare infrastructure? Or, could it be demand as the population ages and the market is responding? Think this one through critically now. Doctor's and nurses make decisions to artificially limit the labor supply through their professional associations. This isn't really in dispute. Further, they're providing a service that isn't a "free market" good. Hence $30 band-aids and $18 aspirin charged to people and their families while they're in a coma not simply being an "exception." Think about it critically and the answer is pretty obvious to anyone that's not in on the take. @destaccado Uh, no. That’s not at all what happened. In 1976, the U.S. government commissioned the Graduate Medical Education National Advisory Committee (GMENAC), and they predicted in 1980 that there would be a surplus of 145,000 physicians in the US by the year 2000. The Moratorium on US Medical School Enrollment, from 1980 to 2005: What Were We Thinking? As a result of their erroneous prediction, U.S. medical school enrollment stagnated because of a self-imposed moratorium. Remember that the number of residency spots are determined by federal government Medicare funding. Even if medical schools had decided to increase the number of medical students, there would not have been enough residency spots for them. You would be left with a surplus of MD’s without anywhere to train and therefore unable to work.  In 1997, only three professional associations representing physicians, the American Medical Association, the American Osteopathic Association and the National Medical Association (black doctors) endorsed the prediction there would be a surplus of doctors. The AMA represents ~ 15% of U.S. MD’s, and the AMA simply endorsed the prediction of a shortage 17 years after the GMENA did so. The number of physicians represented by the AOA and NMA are tiny. Even if these professional associations did have a hand in determining how many medical school spots there should be, they still do not represent but a small fraction of the total number of practicing physicians. There has never been an attempt at limiting the number of graduating nurses in this country by anyone. That’s pure fantasy on your part. So what now? After realizing the error of their ways, U.S. medical school enrollment is increasing. U.S. medical school enrollment rises 30% since 2002 |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:36:27 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The whole thread is an extension of your bitching. My source of authority is facts - none of which you've been able to make a solid counterpoint to. Keep chuckling - it's a normal human nervous reaction when you feel and look stupid around other people. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You have made no significant point that aren’t based on appeals to emotion and the points you try to make are only surface deep. You state you “know” people in the field as your source of authority which is laughable and that your wife is European and you use their healthcare (which somehow makes you an expert on models of medicine as well). In the end, you have opinions (however wrong they may be) based on anecdotes. Which is fine, by all means keep on keeping on. Those of us who have an understanding at a higher than “high school” level (your words, not mine) will continue to have robust debates while you sit in the corner and do what people like you do best- complain. Do stay in this thread though, some of us are having a good chuckle at your expertise. The whole thread is an extension of your bitching. My source of authority is facts - none of which you've been able to make a solid counterpoint to. Keep chuckling - it's a normal human nervous reaction when you feel and look stupid around other people. Let me know when you start posting some facts . . . |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 9:59:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TRO dismissed. they can go to work tomorrow. A correct ruling. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:06:02 PM EDT
[#47]
If the forced the folks to go back to the old company - it is not slavery - but a kin to indentured servitude.
Don't get me wrong, that would be wrong for this case in so many ways. As long as there is no continuing employment contract the employees have not requirement to stay. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:12:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brutal Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The filing made by Ascention's lawyers today was pure artwork. Rarely are legal submissions written like this. It utterly slams Theda Care. PDF. Ascention Brief Jan 24 Link no worky Try This Brutal Very |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:33:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/343031/DE72E8FF-BB12-4751-92CB-9DA9FAF8AA48_jpe-2253187.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/343031/B3E0C185-4110-4B91-A258-169DE2C4B4F1_jpe-2253188.JPG Statement from management to workers. Tugging on the heart strings but never admitting they could have kept things as they were if they were willing to pay the market wage. |
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Posted: 1/24/2022 10:56:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't speak to band aids, but $18.00 aspirin is exactly and completely due to the same goverment regulation you espouse. From purchasing to ordering to administration, you have to have a licensed professional perform these tasks, and put it in writing(documantation). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hey, Hero. I see you like denigrating healthcare providers for having a higher than market value salary subsidized by the Federal Government, but you fail to tell the rest of us what exactly you do. Why is that? I surmise when you dig deep, you'll find that your salary has been historically influenced by the involvement of the Federal Government. You're probably one of those that benefited from the PPP. Or, because the Federal Government floods the economy with Welfare and Disability payments, your wages have increased nicely to stay above inflation. Only a moron would denigrate those working in the healthcare system while failing to recognize the influence of the Federal Government in EVERY ASPECT OF THE ECONOMY. Please, let the rest of us plebeians bask in your self-righteous presence. By the way, good luck negotiating the prices of band aids when you're in shock or in a coma. Are you a doctor or is "SkepticalDoc" just a term of affection? Why be so butthurt that Doctor's in America are vastly overpaid? Just own it and carry on. Every doctor the world-over knows it to be true; that's why many of them would like to come to America and work but needing to redo every certification and residency prevents it. You can thank your industry special-interest groups for driving that. I guess you feel like $30 for band-aids is okay because like you said - they're in shock or in a coma anyways so 'fuck-em' right? I can't speak to band aids, but $18.00 aspirin is exactly and completely due to the same goverment regulation you espouse. From purchasing to ordering to administration, you have to have a licensed professional perform these tasks, and put it in writing(documantation). Don't forget the lawsuits for $87,000,000 worth of med mal because some guy claimed that his peptic ulcer disease or bleeding disorder was caused by that aspirin. Preventing those or defending them isn't cheap. |
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