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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:39:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Very relevant story.
Some old graybeard buddies of mine were on the OG JDAM program. RFP didn't have an "AUR" cost target. All the proposals came in at 150-200k a pop range. Apparently the honest PM at Mac/Doug didn't get the ole boy network memo. Unit price under 25k. He actually said under 10k, the 25k represented risk margin they were uncomfortable going under. The rest is history. What we happen to be paying for most of our equipment is not a reflection of what it could actually cost. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:42:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see you didn't read the rest of the thread before you replied. I skimmed over most of the usual childish bickering. If I get bored enough I'll go look. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:42:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Yeah, I would like to see Elon Musk start a defense company.
I was looking at the price for a motorized turret ring from a defense contractor. The controller alone was $6,000. I’m guessing if it didn’t have an NSN it would be $400. But hey my dad sent me to college building $100,000 sheds to store the Army’s lawnmowers in. The Air Force was no help, they contracted out their maintenance. 
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:43:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do we counter it? My make believe system? Same way you defeat any other existing EO/IR system. Lots of different ways. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:53:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I made a post 2 years ago about my cousin who was working at an American embassy in China when fucking covid broke out, then didn't get ass out of there when she had the chance. Guess where the fuck she is now? If you're new at the state department, they obviously send you to the shit posts. She bought a beater car. Apparently, there's not a concrete plan in place for them to evacuate. If there's an invasion, her plan is to jump in her car with some of her coworkers and drive to the Polish border and attempt to cross. Anything of personal value she's already mailed back home. I mean what could go wrong? Jesus fucking Christ, can you imagine what the Polish border is going to look like the second Russian tanks roll into Ukraine? An opening of a Leopard 2 expressway. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 2:54:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am interest in this gear you speak of. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My business is buying and selling Ukrainian gear. Lots of good companies popped up in Ukraine to provide gear to the military. M-Tac makes some great stuff. P1G-TAC also has some cool gear. Just about everything I wear in these freezing temperatures is from Ukraine. There are surplus stores in most larger shopping malls and cities. Most will deliver at no cost to the closest Nova Poshta (New Post) when purchasing online. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20220119_130336_2_jpg-2245688.JPG I am interest in this gear you speak of. This. I want a shirt. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:04:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My make believe system? Same way you defeat any other existing EO/IR system. Lots of different ways. Send me a PM if you want to talk about making a business out of this. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:04:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. He is there.  I have no idea what he works on, though. All I get is, "Dad, I wish I could tell you what I'm working on, it's so badass."  He's still pretty new there, and young.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @guns762 is he in Tucson? If so there's a good chance I know him. I was the launch system lead for this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW77hVqux10Yes. He is there. I have no idea what he works on, though. All I get is, "Dad, I wish I could tell you what I'm working on, it's so badass." He's still pretty new there, and young.I bought a bunch of electronic test equipment that belonged to a young guy that now works on weapons systems at raytheon. It is older equipment that he bought and recapped and fixed up and used for his college years. But it is some nice stuff. I cant imagine the stuff he is playing with now. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:05:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the cost difference between a system that can operate against a peer without the operator receiving counter-battery fire and one that needs to be used in COIN or insurgency? How do you do the anti-personnel units? You counter counter battery with range or unassing the area after launch. Or having a larger unit with loiter that can poop out your subunits - giving you blos and tons of range. Lots of variables here for a potential solution set. It's hard to get after the solution without a conops/conemp. I like the TTP approach. Zero cost. "Unass yourself if worried about counter battery" For soft target, the aero/fill/range requirements are much less. 1-2 pounds of CompB class fill is about all you need to mist a person/fuck a car. Forming buck + vacuum table is all you need to crank out fuselage/wings out of carbon fiber/poly and you're cranking out whole airframes for like 10bucks a pop. Etc This is all public realm stuff. The RC forums basically have 99% of the info needed to make a "killer drone." Honestly the biggest difference between mil systems and what those guys have been doing is access to infill and complexity of FFTT algorithms. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:10:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You counter counter battery with range or unassing the area after launch. Or having a larger unit with loiter that can poop out your subunits - giving you blos and tons of range. Lots of variables here for a potential solution set. It's hard to get after the solution without a conops/conemp. I like the TTP approach. Zero cost. "Unass yourself if worried about counter battery" For soft target, the aero/fill/range requirements are much less. 1-2 pounds of CompB class fill is about all you need to mist a person/fuck a car. Forming buck + vacuum table is all you need to crank out fuselage/wings out of carbon fiber/poly and you're cranking out whole airframes for like 10bucks a pop. Etc This is all public realm stuff. The RC forums basically have 99% of the info needed to make a "killer drone." Honestly the biggest difference between mil systems and what those guys have been doing is access to infill and complexity of FFTT algorithms. I need a new hobby after retiring. Can I be your friend?
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:14:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Send me a PM if you want to talk about making a business out of this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My make believe system? Same way you defeat any other existing EO/IR system. Lots of different ways. Send me a PM if you want to talk about making a business out of this.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:21:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryHey, I hear $25,000 a pop, I look at my bank account and I can either be a warlord in Africa or on the ground floor of a startup. Not sure which would be more fun. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:25:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For illustrative purposes- https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18486/IMG_6439_JPG-2247212.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: wasn't it at Nellis where they were testing javelins and landed 2 consecutive direct hits on a t-72 sized target at ~3 miles? Which if its true is cool as fuck has anyone seen the pictures of the Russian t72s with the improvised anti top down atgms? I've been seeing pictures of Russian tanks on the Ukraine border with homemade looking lattice armor and metal cages welded to the top of the tank to hopefully disrupt javelins and other atgms that hit the top of the tank apparently they've also added thermal emitters in place of the snorkel on some tanks to hopefully throw off thermal guided atgms like javelins For illustrative purposes- https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18486/IMG_6439_JPG-2247212.jpg I don't think those are going to help much against the Javalin and NLAWs. 
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:31:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have the new Soviet Union invading a sovereign country just because they want to gravitate towards the west. Ukraine is an incredibly corrupt country but Russia has a master’s degree in corruption. It is kind of easy to pick sides in this one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What he’s saying is true. Apparently you haven’t done much reading on Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum. It’s a grand plan to reset the world. Hence Biden’s Build Back Better slogan. A pandemic was mentioned as one key to putting the plan in motion. Sounds tinfoily but look at how western countries like Australia are treating their citizens and destroying their economies and it becomes much more clear. There’s a lot of pieces in play in the world besides picking sides between Russia and Ukraine. You have the new Soviet Union invading a sovereign country just because they want to gravitate towards the west. Ukraine is an incredibly corrupt country but Russia has a master’s degree in corruption. It is kind of easy to pick sides in this one. I agree that Russia needs a good beating. They have no right to keep lopping off parts of these countries. Europe needs to stand together against that aggression or they will slowly fall individually. Doesn’t change what’s playing out in the world though and the fact it appears our own government is ok with fundamentally transforming our country. But this is a whole other conversation and has hijacked ops thread enough. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:34:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think those are going to help much against the Javalin and NLAWs. https://i.imgur.com/ZlqPrXh.gif Blowing up communist shit gets my dick hard. Which, btw, is something you can't say while giving an interview for a PA campaign. It's apparently "unprofessional." |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:35:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Blowing up communist shit gets my dick hard. Which, btw, is something you can't say while giving an interview for a PA campaign. It's apparently "unprofessional." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't think those are going to help much against the Javalin and NLAWs. https://i.imgur.com/ZlqPrXh.gif Blowing up communist shit gets my dick hard. Which, btw, is something you can't say while giving an interview for a PA campaign. It's apparently "unprofessional." I'm sorry, I thought this was America!
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:44:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Just curious....
Very fascinating side conversation about autonomous drone use in combat. Seems like the tech has been out a while and is now being refined and improved. However, a lot of it sounds like it would have been very useful in urban combat in Afghanistan and Iraq in the 2010-2020 period. Was this stuff just not used for fear of revealing it to enemies or used but not publicized? |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 3:45:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think those are going to help much against the Javalin and NLAWs. https://i.imgur.com/ZlqPrXh.gif I'm good with that. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 4:10:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Damn, it’s like the static warfare of WWI.
I remember a video of them fighting over what was once a brand new airport. This was years ago, this thing has been going on for sometime. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 4:22:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just curious.... Very fascinating side conversation about autonomous drone use in combat. Seems like the tech has been out a while and is now being refined and improved. However, a lot of it sounds like it would have been very useful in urban combat in Afghanistan and Iraq in the 2010-2020 period. Was this stuff just not used for fear of revealing it to enemies or used but not publicized? Just one such example. Switchblade "killer kamikaze" drone in the Stan, prior to 2011 Unless it's a billion dollar type system, it's just not "newsworthy." |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 4:24:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just one such example. Switchblade "killer kamikaze" drone in the Stan, prior to 2011 Unless it's a billion dollar type system, it's just not "newsworthy." Man. The battlefield is a terrifying place made even worse 
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Posted: 1/20/2022 4:39:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I want a shirt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My business is buying and selling Ukrainian gear. Lots of good companies popped up in Ukraine to provide gear to the military. M-Tac makes some great stuff. P1G-TAC also has some cool gear. Just about everything I wear in these freezing temperatures is from Ukraine. There are surplus stores in most larger shopping malls and cities. Most will deliver at no cost to the closest Nova Poshta (New Post) when purchasing online. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20220119_130336_2_jpg-2245688.JPG I am interest in this gear you speak of. This. I want a shirt. M-Tac has some cool print shirts. One of my favorites. IM me and I can bring some back with me or ship them back to the US.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:09:00 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:22:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M-Tac has some cool print shirts. One of my favorites. IM me and I can bring some back with me or ship them back to the US. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20220120_223652_2_jpg-2247654.JPG They've got some cool stuff and decent prices, wonder if they ship to the US? https://militarist.ua/ua/brands/m-tac/?PAGEN_3=5 |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:59:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryPepperoni pizza bagel in the making? 
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Posted: 1/20/2022 6:00:21 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 1/20/2022 6:08:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is true. Was a bit before Putins time when they really started their subversive efforts in the US, but all those KGB guys are the same. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The problem with that is that it makes you vulnerable to what Russians like this guy are saying. In America, wrong is right- up is down- bad is good. Our government is corrupt to the core because they have been taken over by the globalists. How do you guys not see this? We have a sitting president who is illegitimate and stole the election, nobody voted for him. We have sitting congressmen and senate who are worth millions yet only make like $100k/year. Parts of NY, CA, IL, ect are being turned into dumpsters and the people that live in those places keep voting those people in? Yeah BS. AGs set up a revolving door for career criminals to start a culture war. Face it, America has been co-opted. It is only going to get worse as CIA and FBI and justice systems turn to wokeness and CRT (as evidenced in their job adverts). Until 2020 gets fixed, there is no future. Alex Jones just threw in the towel and said it is over for America (and he has been fighting the globalists for his whole career). Putin is the only one spewing sense in this f***ed up world. Edit: Adding the American government hates you and has declared war on you. You are deemed a domestic terrorist I agree with most of that, but Putin is still a bad guy too. Not to mention Putin and his KGB buddies are the ones that set the US on this path he cries about. It's amazing how deep the Soviet tentacles run in the American Left. That is true. Was a bit before Putins time when they really started their subversive efforts in the US, but all those KGB guys are the same. Yep. It's been going on for the better part of a century and has involved more than just the KGB. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 10:50:56 PM EDT
[#28]
bump
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Posted: 1/20/2022 11:12:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't need any of that stuff to accomplish high Pk on near peer hard targets, with a completely autonomous system. TTPs and MP is a thing. Let me try a different tactic... Why would I ever need a radio, when I already have JUMPS and a signature database? Why would I ever need a wire on an AUTONOMOUS system? Why do I need IR when I can fuse the inputs of a near IR EO with a magnetometer and the aforementioned jumps and signature database? Why do I need GPS when DTED exists and tercom/imnav has been a thing since before I was born? Not to mention mems imus can be had for pocket change. My POV on this is coming from being the Sensors and AI SME for ~50 programs in a $1/4 trillion portfolio (eta to clarify- technically not one portfolio as it Spans multiple PEOs). I'm quite literally typing these replies during the bio breaks at the SETR event I'm supporting for a 2 billion dollar 804 program. You think Col. Burton was a pathological liar? That's certainly an interesting take... Is there a glossary of terms/acronyms available somewhere? Kinda tough to understand technical jargon. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 12:57:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there a glossary of terms/acronyms available somewhere? Kinda tough to understand technical jargon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You don't need any of that stuff to accomplish high Pk on near peer hard targets, with a completely autonomous system. TTPs and MP is a thing. Let me try a different tactic... Why would I ever need a radio, when I already have JUMPS and a signature database? Why would I ever need a wire on an AUTONOMOUS system? Why do I need IR when I can fuse the inputs of a near IR EO with a magnetometer and the aforementioned jumps and signature database? Why do I need GPS when DTED exists and tercom/imnav has been a thing since before I was born? Not to mention mems imus can be had for pocket change. My POV on this is coming from being the Sensors and AI SME for ~50 programs in a $1/4 trillion portfolio (eta to clarify- technically not one portfolio as it Spans multiple PEOs). I'm quite literally typing these replies during the bio breaks at the SETR event I'm supporting for a 2 billion dollar 804 program. You think Col. Burton was a pathological liar? That's certainly an interesting take... Is there a glossary of terms/acronyms available somewhere? Kinda tough to understand technical jargon. In order: Percent Kill Tactics training and procedures Mission planning Joint mission planning system Infrared Electro optical Global positioning system Digital terrain elevation database Terrain navigation Image navigation Microelectomechanical systems Inertial measurement unit Point of view Artificial intelligence Subject matter expert Principle executive officer - aka a general/admiral System engineering technical review 804 - a type of development program that attempts to shitcan all the redtape and get systems to the field in under 3 years. The average "normal" development program, across the dod I think is like 5-10 years. I've also mentioned (j)uons/uons. Joint urgent operational needs aka "every day the troops ain't got it, they are dying. Get us something in acouple months. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 1:04:17 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In order: Percent Kill Tactics training and procedures Mission planning Joint mission planning system Infrared Electro optical Global positioning system Digital terrain elevation database Terrain navigation Image navigation Microelectomechanical systems Inertial measurement unit Point of view Artificial intelligence Subject matter expert Principle executive officer - aka a general/admiral System engineering technical review 804 - a type of development program that attempts to shitcan all the redtape and get systems to the field in under 3 years. The average "normal" development program, across the dod I think is like 5-10 years. I've also mentioned (j)uons/uons. Joint urgent operational needs aka "every day the troops ain't got it, they are dying. Get us something in acouple months. Much appreciated |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 6:48:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryThank you. I knew about the Condor Legion. I was wondering which operations/battles that Franco used the "blitzkrieg tactics"? I appreciate the info. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 7:10:07 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They've got some cool stuff and decent prices, wonder if they ship to the US? https://militarist.ua/ua/brands/m-tac/?PAGEN_3=5 They have an exclusive deal with an American seller on Amazon. Unfortunately that means inflated prices on the items they do offer in the US. Here in Ukraine it is about 50-60% of what you pay for comparable items from 5.11, etc. Quality of their clothing, back packs, and gear is excellent. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 10:49:52 AM EDT
[#34]
Sure seems like shit is getting hotter.
What’s the over under this pops off WW3? China getting involved? |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 10:57:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure seems like shit is getting hotter. What’s the over under this pops off WW3? China getting involved? I think it doesn't set off WW3 yet, but sets the stage for WW3 a few years down the road. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 11:04:21 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Ukraine certainly would have no interest in hiding any sort of conflict. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:  Quoted: Wait, are they actually fighting? I thought Russia was just massed on he border but no fighting yet? I call BS. If there wasa single dead Ukrainian at the hands of the Russians, our media would be wall-to-wall with "attrocities" and Potustato would be at the UN with ginned up "intelligence" forming up a posse. This. Ukraine certainly would have no interest in hiding any sort of conflict. The Ukraine takes casualties every week and it would take you maybe 15 seconds to discover that if you made an attempt. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 11:12:44 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're right it will be ww3 the second he crosses into a nato nation Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Russia doesn't want Eastern Ukraine, they want all of Ukraine. Don't expect them to stop there either. Russia won't be content until all of Eastern Europe is on their leash. If you're right it will be ww3 the second he crosses into a nato nation Germany is going to turn around and give their ass. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 11:14:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The will of US politicians to support, let alone actively defend, an ally is gone. Look who's in charge. China knows it, Russia knows it, everybody knows it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you're right it will be ww3 the second he crosses into a nato nation No it won't. NATO and the USA are paper tigers. The US People do not have the capability to supply or wage a war. The will of US politicians to support, let alone actively defend, an ally is gone. Look who's in charge. China knows it, Russia knows it, everybody knows it. Social Justice against colonizerism brung us here. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 11:16:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be fine with a few of these. https://i0.wp.com/www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/russian-with-panzerfaust.jpg?resize=1024%2C713&ssl=1 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I want a javelin Shoot, I’d be satisfied with a Gustav. I'd be fine with a few of these. https://i0.wp.com/www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/russian-with-panzerfaust.jpg?resize=1024%2C713&ssl=1 If you are within 60 yds. |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 11:20:17 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Ukraine takes casualties every week and it would take you maybe 15 seconds to discover that if you made an attempt. Yup |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 11:44:29 AM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 1/21/2022 12:25:24 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @WhiskersTheCat People don't think The Agency be like it is, but it do.  https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/102941/russia_the_agency_sm_jpg-2246923.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jen Psaki (WH press secretary) one week denying false flags exist and now saying Russia is going to do a false flag. Do we believe anything coming from the WH at this point? The whole Obiden admin's boogieman is Russia. Quoted: Not to mention USA government has been doing false flags against its own citizens for some time now. Jan. 6, Patriot Front march in DC, Virginia election right wing false flag demonstration who all turned out to be DNC operatives, Jan. 6 remembrance gathering, DC truck guy with bombs, etc. Edit: also Charlottesville and most probably Mandalay Bay Lol just because we don't like Jen doesn't give you credibility. You've made several mistakes in your post a native American English speaker would not make. I'm not going to point them out because I don't want you to learn from them. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425212/1629523773534-2225728.jpg @WhiskersTheCat People don't think The Agency be like it is, but it do. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/102941/russia_the_agency_sm_jpg-2246923.JPG Oh look, that building is so tall one can see Siberia from the basement! |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 8:21:08 AM EDT
[#43]
So come to find out it looks like they guy doing the Q&A is actually on the ground on the front lines himself
 I can post up some pictures he posted |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 8:25:06 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 1/22/2022 8:25:48 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 1/22/2022 8:27:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Some other interesting stuff
 Attached FileTroop concentration in Belarus  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 8:40:10 AM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 1/22/2022 8:40:24 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey, I hear $25,000 a pop, I look at my bank account and I can either be a warlord in Africa or on the ground floor of a startup. Not sure which would be more fun. Warlord in Africa. Less risk of death. |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 8:59:12 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 1/22/2022 9:09:10 AM EDT
[#50]
We doing this yet?
 DJ Blyatman & dlb - Kamaz (Official Music Video) |
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