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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:36:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was a scientific study that showed taking steroids and sitting on the couch resulted in greater muscle gains than working out without steroids. This is flawed. It counted all fat free mass as gained body mass, which yeah, but people are implying it was accrued muscle mass. It was assuredly almost all water. Testosterone is a wet compound, and upon beginning a test cycle one usually fluffs on 10ish lb of water both in the skin and muscle. It disappears upon cessation, which the study would have noted if they measured after the fact, which they didn’t. I assure you if you do gear and just lay around, you’ll look exactly like you did but with slightly larger titties. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:37:16 AM EDT
[#2]
It’s all about genetics…
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:40:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've alway been asked if I was Jucing, I've just been big my whole life. I knew if I wanted to be "in shape" and not just a fat big guy, I needed to start lifting early so I started at 13. IMO it was me starting lifting then that allowed me to develop the muscle maturity I did so early, and with that came muscle memory and the ability to grow fast and stay even when not used that much. After D1 football stopped b/c of a shoulder issue I didn't lift for close to 10 years and still looked muscular and large. Then I got the bug to start lifting again and blew the fuck up like I was on Juice but I'm not. Back to being a Trap Monster, and I turn 40 in a couple weeks 6'3 320lbs Going to start cutting after the holidays https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/251314/20211102_065000_jpg-2195177.JPG Damn son. Mirin. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:44:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are body builders usually shorter than most guys? Ronnie Coleman 5'11" Arnold Schwarzenegger 6'2" Jay Cutler 5'10 Median height for men in the US is 5'9". But, I'd guess taller body types might not like it - you just don't see that many tall people in the gym, generally speaking. I've heard it's tougher due to range of motion. In the extremes, I'm sure they're less likely to have body dysmorphia. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:45:44 AM EDT
[#5]
It is having the genetics combined with hard work, dedication and nutrition(which includes supplements of many types).
Every guy can get in shape, no question. Not every guy can be built like a pro body builder though. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:45:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate you big guys lol. This is me at 46. I’m 47 now and a little bigger, but in the middle of a bulk. https://i.postimg.cc/tg7Dy4f3/DF9-A9-E1-B-0568-4721-B4-F5-D2-E0-BA43-F41-E.jpg Mirin here too. I'm 48 and will never look like that, but I can at least get this fat off my belly. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:48:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude, TRT is gear. You're not natty. Facts. TRT is not natty. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:53:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But, and to your point, not that big of a difference. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don’t know if I’d go that far to make that assumption. With that said I recently looked at raw power lifting records in Iowa...at 165 pounds in the tested category the record was just over 1100...in the untested category it was over 1400...that’s a significant increase from drugs. But, and to your point, not that big of a difference. 300lbs is not that big of a difference? REALLY? |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 8:56:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Facts. TRT is not natty. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:04:04 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats fine, guess I'm not Natty as of 8 month ago. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Facts. TRT is not natty. Because really, where do we draw the line on "natty"? Does taking Tylenol to help recover from sore muscles remove you from the "natty" category? Why not? You're taking a drug and that's not "natty". Etc... Whatever, haters gonna always try to make excuses for why they're not as strong/big as others. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:08:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find this hard to believe. I was doing 1250 at 165-170lbs. Age 19/20 and a height of 5'8" I wasn't even that strong compared to most of my lifting friends. I’m 47 years old lol. I wrestled at 112 as a teenager. It’s not that I never took time off, but I’ve worked out nearly all my life. I can tell you being natural and looking the way I do isn’t common at 35 let alone 47 years old. No trt nothing. I’d also say powerlifting isn’t a big sport in Iowa so records in other states are most likely higher. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:12:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd argue that it's not natty if you're just putting yourself at normal levels. Because really, where do we draw the line on "natty"? Does taking Tylenol to help recover from sore muscles remove you from the "natty" category? Why not? You're taking a drug and that's not "natty". Etc... Whatever, haters gonna always try to make excuses for why they're not as strong/big as others. I’m not hating I give zero fucks if someone is using drugs it doesn’t effect me. Just call it what it is TRT isn’t natural. Not the same as using growth hormone, but not natural. Most body builders his age using TRT is because they fucked themselves up using gear when they were younger. Not saying that’s what he has going on, but you will find that is often the case. I learn most things from the more plates more dates guy though so take it with a grain of salt. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:22:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not hating I give zero fucks if someone is using drugs it doesn’t effect me. Just call it what it is TRT isn’t natural. Not the same as using growth hormone, but not natural. Most body builders his age using TRT is because they fucked themselves up using gear when they were younger. Not saying that’s what he has going on, but you will find that is often the case. I learn most things from the more plates more dates guy though so take it with a grain of salt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd argue that it's not natty if you're just putting yourself at normal levels. Because really, where do we draw the line on "natty"? Does taking Tylenol to help recover from sore muscles remove you from the "natty" category? Why not? You're taking a drug and that's not "natty". Etc... Whatever, haters gonna always try to make excuses for why they're not as strong/big as others. I’m not hating I give zero fucks if someone is using drugs it doesn’t effect me. Just call it what it is TRT isn’t natural. Not the same as using growth hormone, but not natural. Most body builders his age using TRT is because they fucked themselves up using gear when they were younger. Not saying that’s what he has going on, but you will find that is often the case. I learn most things from the more plates more dates guy though so take it with a grain of salt. He was on Rogan the other day, worth the watch IMO. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:24:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was on Rogan the other day, worth the watch IMO. I caught the excerpt that was on YouTube about how guys pass drug tests that was eye opening. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:28:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Genetics as in long limbs and small joints. The opposite of powerlifters and other strength athletes.
The price paid for all those chemicals is a shortened lifespan. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:32:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I caught the excerpt that was on YouTube about how guys pass drug tests that was eye opening. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He was on Rogan the other day, worth the watch IMO. I caught the excerpt that was on YouTube about how guys pass drug tests that was eye opening. Joe asks him how he learned so much, his response was "I'm a fucking nerd" 
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:32:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are body builders usually shorter than most guys? Because shorter levers (femurs, upper arms) and muscle insertions make muscles “pop” more and look better. And pro bodybuilding is a pageant about looks. There are many NFL players that don’t look particularly impressive compared to pro bodybuilders. They long long limbs, lack of definition, and the muscle insertions aren’t impressive. But they are athletically superior. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:35:31 AM EDT
[#18]
People drastically under-appreciate how much genetics plays a role, and how that impacts both natural bodybuilders and those on PEDs.
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:37:05 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:39:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the common misconception people have is that steroids are 'cheating' and make things 'easier'. When you're talking about pro level athletes, they use PEDs to work even harder than they otherwise could. It's still an immense amount of work. That's the common misconception. PEDs don't make you stronger/bigger, they allow you to workout more than your body could naturally handle |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:39:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryI agree that those that bodybuild don’t realize how many compliments will come from other men, and just how little women will compliment them. But women definitely notice, either in how they respond to you or by messaging you in private vs public. I think it’s just a manifestation of, when the attention isn’t sexual in nature, people are a lot more likely to give said attention publicly vs privately. But that’s just my experience so. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:40:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the common misconception. PEDs don't make you stronger/bigger, they allow you to workout more than your body could naturally handle Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think the common misconception people have is that steroids are 'cheating' and make things 'easier'. When you're talking about pro level athletes, they use PEDs to work even harder than they otherwise could. It's still an immense amount of work. That's the common misconception. PEDs don't make you stronger/bigger, they allow you to workout more than your body could naturally handle Both of these are very accurate posts. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:43:06 AM EDT
[#23]
What can I do to improve my genetics?
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:48:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Based on my experience being in a gym consistently four to five days a week, the average guy works out half as hard as they think and half as long and half as often as they claim.
I doubt many body builders fall into that trap, or they would no longer be a body builder at that point. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:51:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is having the genetics combined with hard work, dedication and nutrition(which includes supplements of many types). Every guy can get in shape, no question. Not every guy can be built like a pro body builder though. Strong man has a lot of really tall guys |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:55:59 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've alway been asked if I was Jucing, I've just been big my whole life. I knew if I wanted to be "in shape" and not just a fat big guy, I needed to start lifting early so I started at 13. IMO it was me starting lifting then that allowed me to develop the muscle maturity I did so early, and with that came muscle memory and the ability to grow fast and stay even when not used that much. After D1 football stopped b/c of a shoulder issue I didn't lift for close to 10 years and still looked muscular and large. Then I got the bug to start lifting again and blew the fuck up like I was on Juice but I'm not. Back to being a Trap Monster, and I turn 40 in a couple weeks 6'3 320lbs Going to start cutting after the holidays https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/251314/20211102_065000_jpg-2195177.JPG OK So I guess I'm not "Natty" taking prescribed TCT to bring me back to normal. That fine with me. I guess I put on all this muscle in the last 8 month  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:57:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryNotice the sweat line, it's not exactly my casual wear |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:59:44 AM EDT
[#28]
John Haack was on a podcast with Mark Bell and said ped’s allowed him to put on 20 lbs of muscle almost instantly so he could move up to the 198 class.
It would take me probably 5 years of perfect work and diet to do that. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:07:27 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based on my experience being in a gym consistently four to five days a week, the average guy works out half as hard as they think and half as long and half as often as they claim. I doubt many body builders fall into that trap, or they would no longer be a body builder at that point. It’s not just the work ethic, but it’s also doing things wrong. I know for many years I did things wrong as far as routine and diet. It takes hard work and smart work just like most things in life then genetics and drugs come in. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:08:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: John Haack was on a podcast with Mark Bell and said ped’s allowed him to put on 20 lbs of muscle almost instantly so he could move up to the 198 class. It would take me probably 5 years of perfect work and diet to do that. No amount of anabolics can allow you to put on 20lb of muscle “almost instantly”, or even close. Let alone a competitive powerlifter that’s already considerably developed. He too doesn’t understand the difference between weight gain and muscle gain. You’ll put on a quick 10-20lb of fluff weight, but a lot of it is intramuscular and in this context it does allow for higher lifts through considerably improved leverages, so I don’t judge him for confusing the difference. Upon cessation of anabolics he will drop virtually all of intramuscular weight gain. This is a common misconception. Look at all the cycle logs of people running 500 test that are convinced they put on 30lb of muscle at the end of their cycle but lost most of it a few weeks after (minus the fat gained throughout their shitty food bulk cycle). |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:15:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No amount of anabolics can allow you to put on 20lb of muscle “almost instantly”, or even close. Let alone a competitive powerlifter that’s already considerably developed. He too doesn’t understand the difference between weight gain and muscle gain. You’ll put on a quick 10-20lb of fluff weight, but a lot of it is intramuscular and in this context it does allow for higher lifts through considerably improved leverages, so I don’t judge him for confusing the difference. Upon cessation of anabolics he will drop virtually all of intramuscular weight gain. This is a common misconception. Look at all the cycle logs of people running 500 test that are convinced they put on 30lb of muscle at the end of their cycle but lost most of it a few weeks after (minus the fat gained throughout their shitty food bulk cycle). I’d have to rewatch it to see exactly how he worded himself and exactly the time period. He is in the discussion of who is the greatest power lifter of all time so I assumed he knows what he’s talking about. I have no experience admittedly and only base things off what those I look up to say about the topic. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:17:21 AM EDT
[#32]
drugs and consistency. still takes a lot of discipline to work out 2x a day and eat right
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:17:23 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What can I do to improve my genetics? Take the vaccine. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:18:10 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:20:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:What can I do to improve my genetics? Body transplant! 
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:21:25 AM EDT
[#36]
Genetics
Diet Discipline Gear In that order I’m 6’3 and 250. I’m not naturally lean. I’m by jo means a Pvt Pyle. I can get lean, but 8% body fat doesn’t do me any favors for deadlift and bench and squat and is really hard to maintain for lengths of time. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:23:04 AM EDT
[#37]
i’m with vrod, you’re not on, “gear,” simply getting
yourself back to what should be a normal baseline. if you were running androgenics as well, then sure, that’s gear. nothing wrong with a lil TRT 
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:28:04 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i’m with vrod, you’re not on, “gear,” simply getting yourself back to what should be a normal baseline. if you were running androgenics as well, then sure, that’s gear. nothing wrong with a lil TRT I think it depends on how and why it's in the equation. TRT to the extent that it is putting you across the line into the normal range because you demonstrably can't be there without it, is not gear. TRT to the extent that you use it to get your free T to near the top of the scale and keep it there, is gear. TRT in any quantity is gear if you are already across the normal line and have no medical reason to use it. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:28:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m 47 years old lol. I wrestled at 112 as a teenager. It’s not that I never took time off, but I’ve worked out nearly all my life. I can tell you being natural and looking the way I do isn’t common at 35 let alone 47 years old. No trt nothing. I’d also say powerlifting isn’t a big sport in Iowa so records in other states are most likely higher. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I find this hard to believe. I was doing 1250 at 165-170lbs. Age 19/20 and a height of 5'8" I wasn't even that strong compared to most of my lifting friends. I’m 47 years old lol. I wrestled at 112 as a teenager. It’s not that I never took time off, but I’ve worked out nearly all my life. I can tell you being natural and looking the way I do isn’t common at 35 let alone 47 years old. No trt nothing. I’d also say powerlifting isn’t a big sport in Iowa so records in other states are most likely higher. I reread my post. I didn't mean to sound like a dick. I just thought the records would be way higher. I'm 49 now, and have been so out of shape for so long that very light weight is hard for me. Also, I suffer severe chronic hip and back pain that makes normal life hard. No doubt from abusing myself at 20 and not taking the injuries serious. Best |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:38:11 AM EDT
[#40]
Mostly genetics.
I’m fit and lean and I haven’t done anything in over 3 years. Still have a 6-pack and look like gym rat. I have cousins that juice, workout, and they have siblings that smoke cigarettes and sit around and besides a little fat, they don’t look much different. They are all very well built physically. And women really don’t care how ripped you are. Looking good in a t-shirt is about the point of diminishing returns. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:39:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched a documentary on Ronnie Coleman a while back. I think it was Flex Wheeler being interviewed and he said when he asked Ronnie how much he had cheated on his diet Ronnie just gave him a puzzeld look. Meaning cheating hadn’t even crossed his mind. Consuming 10,000 + calories a day every day of lean protein, vegetables and healthy type carbs is no small task. And yes, genetics counts for maybe half when you’re talking pro level. I think even some of the top bodybuilders said this, flex had better genetics than Ronnie IMO Maybe not by much, but i think he clearly did. But Ronnie did everything else better than flex when it came to bodybuilding. No bodybuilders actually trained harder than Ronnie or had the mindset he did when it came to bodybuilding. Probably why Ronnie can’t walk without crutches/a walker. He lifted too damn heavy |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:45:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Sean Connery was a bodybuilder before Bond. So maybe genetics again??
He was also so good he could play a Russian submarine captain with a Scottish burr |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:47:23 AM EDT
[#43]
 Attached FileSo much harder when you’re in your 50’s I was benching 305, and 105 DB presses at age 50. Messed up my elbow at work and no lifting for about 2.5 years due to laziness and too much beer. Went to gym with my kid couple weeks ago to get a feel on where I’m at now. Surprised I hit 265 on bench at age 52 after so much time off. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:50:35 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree that those that bodybuild don't realize how many compliments will come from other men, and just how little women will compliment them. But women definitely notice, either in how they respond to you or by messaging you in private vs public. I think it's just a manifestation of, when the attention isn't sexual in nature, people are a lot more likely to give said attention publicly vs privately. But that's just my experience so. I'd guess women have a similar reaction to a man putting on some mass. There's a natural attraction, but at some point it starts to look unreal. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:51:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no substitute for genetics. You have to have that natural foundation. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:54:50 AM EDT
[#46]
someone link that study where people who trained naturally gained less muscle than people who didn't train with PEDs
i'm too lazy |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:55:07 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find this hard to believe. I was doing 1250 at 165-170lbs. Age 19/20 and a height of 5'8" I wasn't even that strong compared to most of my lifting friends. Big difference between gym lifts and competition lifts. easy to get a no lift because of a bad walk out or re rack or not hitting squat depth, letting DL down too fast. not to mention the damn pause on the bench. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:56:04 AM EDT
[#48]
diet
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Posted: 12/7/2021 10:59:32 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Big difference between gym lifts and competition lifts. easy to get a no lift because of a bad walk out or re rack or not hitting squat depth, letting DL down too fast. not to mention the damn pause on the bench. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I find this hard to believe. I was doing 1250 at 165-170lbs. Age 19/20 and a height of 5'8" I wasn't even that strong compared to most of my lifting friends. Big difference between gym lifts and competition lifts. easy to get a no lift because of a bad walk out or re rack or not hitting squat depth, letting DL down too fast. not to mention the damn pause on the bench. For sure, high school lifts even at their meets would get many red lights at an actual comp. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 11:01:14 AM EDT
[#50]
In my circle of friends are a couple long time juicers. There are competitions for juicers and non-juicers. the juicers can definitely outperform the non. But non is a much larger group in my area. Genetics and hard work go a long ways. Juice takes that even further.
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