To steal a quote from Shepherd Book: "I don't care what you believe, just believe it."

America needs more Christians, whether they're catholics, lutherans, or other. We're all on the same side.

If you are curious to learn - RCIA can be very hit or miss.  An issue in the Catholic Church, is while we all attend the same mass - many have vary different views of the Catholic Faith.  

I will point out one, because it is one I like - sex.  The people who teach the Catholic faith tend to be all over the place on this subject.  Nun's, especially when teaching girls, tend to love to teach sex is bad.  Outside of wedlock, it is pure evil - and will send you strait to hell.  Inside of wedlock, it is only acceptable as the marital duty (which makes it a required chore of the faith, but one to be avoided and disliked).  Now Pope John Paul the Great - he had a few things to say about the Catholic theory of sex.  He said it was essentially the second greatest gift that God gave humans (salvation through Jesus Christ being the first).  Through sex, we share in creation with God.  Sex is the closest humans can come on Earth to the communion that is in Heaven.  The Trinity is mirrored thought the act of martial sex - where man, woman, and God become one, and a miracle of creation can happen.  It is a form of communion, and one of the most Holy things we can participate in.  Now depending on where you take RCIA, good luck in them teaching Pope John Paul's Theology of the Body.  50/50 they will not only fail to teach it, but will actually instruct something that goes against Catholic Canon.  My humble opinion is that Pope John Paul the Great believed that it was essentially the Unified Theory of Faith.  More likely, if it is addressed at all in RCIA - they will mention the Churches position on birth control, and teach mental gymnastics on how to get around it.  About the only worse mental gymnastics they might teach is the Churches position on confession and sin - and once again, how to get around it.

Anyway, If you like to read, get a book on Theology of the Body and see how you feel about it.  Depending on the age of your wife, odds are she has never heard of it - and corrupted teaching of the Churches position on sex might be one of the things that your wife dislikes about the Catholic Church (and well she should if she is a sane person)..  
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The churches teaching on guns is also all over the place.  Many Priests will probably be against them, as well as many Bishops - but I have also heard a Priest all but say all Catholics should be armed.  He said that it is a sacred duty for us to protect those who can not protect themselves - and how can you do that if you refuse the tools necessary to do it.  Especially as a male, our duty is to protect or wife's and family - don't shrink on your duty out of cowardess.  That said, he did say it is ok not to protect yourself - that is your decision.  It is not ok to fail to protect others.

Oh are you of the “Orthodox in communion with Rome?” mindset?

Blech. My interactions in person with such have been overwhelmingly negative, right down to multiple Byzantine Rite Catholics pretending to be Orthodox. They were downright deceptive about it. I didn’t have a negative opinion of them before these interactions. Now I do.

I don't know every rcc priest and what I posted does not require me to know every priest to know it. If you disagree with this, than go quote the thing you think I can't possibly know without knowing every rcc priest and show how I can't have known that.

It was said that there is nothing in the rcc faith/system that inherently leads to the well known abuse problems. That is false and destructive to people to believe.

As far as the "identify every individual in a congregation of 100" - I never posted that or anything that means that. Bad actors don't even have to be able to do that to abuse the system to pick off people to victimize.

At all of his......

I’m Antiochian/OCA. OCA doesn’t kowtow to anyone. We govern ourselves.

And yes Moscow kowtows to the Russian government. The RO can’t break with its history of kowtowing to govt period.

You have some very strange anxieties about my faith, things I’ve never encountered or even heard of.
I’ll say this about the medium size (250k) city we live in. There are at least a dozen churches. Many of them have more than one priest. Different churches hear confessions at different times and days. I can’t remember the last time I went to confession at my actual parish. It’s usually one that’s 10 minutes the other way since the time is more convenient for me. I typically go to mass at one of 3 different churches depending on our schedules. In a year I might attend at least a half dozen churches in my city. I’ll admit in my younger days not wanting to confess the same thing, premarital sex, to the same priest over and over. I went to a different confessor out of embarrassment not because I was worried about him telling on me/us.
What that priest hears in confession he takes to the grave.

What do you mean by "defecting" ?

If it is obvious that I will "deny", whatever you quote, than it's easy to show how you "know" I will deny it.

I gave you an invitation to explain why people should believe what you said based off of the text of what I posed. You are now posting excuses for not doing that.

I am not running from what the text I posted means. I don't see how anyone could possibly believe that, given I'm asking you to quote me and interact with its meaning forthrightly and honestly.

Understand. Thank you for the clarification.

So, the Eastern Orthodox aren't a homogeneous group, like most think. I would probably Antiochian if I was Eastern, but I am a Latin Rite Catholic. So, no need to leave.

I used to live next door to an Maronite Church (I assume it is similar to Antiochian, accept in full union with the Church of Rome).  Evening Vespers were beautiful when the wind was right and the sound would carry to my house (I think there mass is in Aramaic).  One Church I attended tried to continue that tradition - Sunday night Vespers were led by a Latin Choir (they were very good).  When I had the time, it was a great way to end/start a week.

Here’s what I don’t get, and would like to understand. I’ve asked Catholic friends, and in always goes poorly.

How is Mary an intercessor?

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

I expect it to go about as well here. I’m seriously trying to understand.

Southern Baptist here.

There is one in central Austin, that I have wanted to visit. Just have not had the time. I have heard they have a rich & beautiful liturgy.

I remember 2 years ago on the Feast of St Charbel, they invited all Catholics to celebrate & were giving out Holy oil from His sepulcher. We where out of town otherwise I would have been there in a heartbeat. St Charbel, pray for us.

Do you know the difference between a situation that could be abused being there, and it not being there?

I'm pretty sure that was it.  Thanks.

Last time I went to a Catholic mass, it was in Latin, which I was fine with, as two years of Latin held up well. Just visiting with a friend after a drunk.

The Bible with all texts that have been agreed upon to have been divinely inspired.

Catholicism is not compatible with Christianity.

Mary...  Catholics believe that those who have gone before us can already be in Heaven (as apposed to some waiting room till the end of the world).  Just as most Christians believe they can ask for living people to pray (prayers of intercession) for us, we also believe that the Saints in Heaven can do the same.   So while Jesus is the way, others can ask Jesus for our us - intercession.  Once you get past this hurtle - who is better to ask for that intercession than Jesus's mother.  The biblical support for this is the Wedding Feast at Cana - where Mary told Jesus that they were out of wine.  Mary asked and Jesus acted (even though he said his time had not yet come).  
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My house was directly behind the Maronite Church in Austin (I sold that house over 15 years ago - so I don't mind giving away its address-at most 3 houses fit that discription).  Once they built their school between the Church and my house - the sound did not carry anymore.  IIRC it was a beautiful Church and I did like the architecture as well.  

I'm orthodox. I've been too quite a few catholic masses in my time. I'm shocked at how the parishioners dress. Many in your everyday street attire. Shorts, sneakers, etc. I've always worn a suit to church and tried to look my best. I was also surprised by the amount of times I heard the priest asking for money and donations. I thought the catholic church was wealthy? Catholic mass was underwhelming.

This will take another thread I am afraid. It has to do with very many things. Such as She is the Ark of the Covenant, the Queen Mother, the New Eve as Jesus is the New Adam etc...

I would read "Jesus & the Jewish Roots of Mary" by Dr Brandt Pitre

That is such a silly and ignorant statement.

If you haven't heard anyone discussing the abuse problems in the RCC or the specifics of how the confessional box and celibacy combine to create temptation ... ok? Someone else in the thread brought it up. A false claim was made about it, which if believed leads people to put themselves in harms way. Specifically, that there's nothing in the rcc system/faith that has a hand in making the abuse problem worse.

I am aware that priests are not supposed to share that stuff with anyone else. I believe that it has to be harrowing to truly believe that you have to go to confession and bare it all to any other human being, because if you don't, you could die on a mortal sin and be in hell, forever, for not telling the priest about it. It's no wonder people don't go to confession consistently.

Horrid music compared with Orthodox chant.

“On Eagle’s Wings” or “Here I am Lord” next to Bortniansky? There is no competition.

I agree on the dress & $ requests. You don't hear or see that in Traditional Latin Masses.

The Norvus Ordo can definitely be underwhelming. So, can a low Mass for that matter. But the reason we are there is not.

Do a few jerks change the underlying theology?  The liturgy? Perhaps one is judging a whole culture based on a few negative interactions.  If I would judge all of Russian Orthodoxy based on some Russians I met in Russia, I might have a different opinion on Orthodoxy but I try to see the whole, not the few Stalinists who claim to be Orthodox Christians

Can not disagree. Traditional Latin Mass has Gregorian Chant.

Kind of like liberals who cannot imagine that someone would not misuse their firearms because they know deep inside that they could not be a responsible gun owner.

Twitter and modern social media along with tv and movies really have made it where things like false derision can fake it as meaningful arguments.

“Orthodox in communion with Rome” is a crock. You’re either Orthodox aka not in communion with Rome or you’re Byzantine Rite Catholic.

Thanks, I will.

Exalt the parts of the Bible the Protestants had to remove because that part of scripture did not align with their notions. Even God needs an editor apparently

Well gee.. is it the commie woke-ass pope, or the rampant kiddie diddling coverups, or the general assholery?   Lot of reason to pick from why someone would "fall away" from it.



I don't have a beef with Catholics, but I detest their church quite a bit.  Priest trying to exclude half of someone's family from a funeral was about the last straw quite a ways back for me, personally.

I believe Orthodox means - strict follower of Faith. So, there are Orthodox Jews, Catholics etc...

Vatican 2 removed the Catholic from Catholicism.

Calls for donations vary widely with the individual Parrish.  While it all comes down to the pastors attitude - local church debt and operating expenses (especially if they have a parochial school attached) play a large part of it.  My parish for a very long time had no local debt and we had no school - It was extremely rare to hear a cash call.  The collection is always passed, but rarely anything is said about it.  Visiting missionary priests are a different story of course - as they are usually visiting as part of a fund raising campaign for their ministry.
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We recently did acquire some potential debt - we built a new community center.  That said, the debt is mostly potential as it is being done in phases, and those phases are only happening as we can afford them.  So there still have been very few actual calls for donations - abet a lot of donations (some fairly large) were freely given for the new community center.  Our parish is financially conservative - too the point that we would damage ourselves before spending money.  A lot of people were angry with the pastor for building the center - but he is willing to look further into the future for capital projects (like putting on roofs that will last longer, or building a center that we will use for decades.
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Vatican 2 did not remove the Catholic for Catholicism.  It's implementation in the US sure the hell has tried though.  I would argue that the Norvus Ordo is rarely done correctly.  The GIRM (General Instructions to the Roman Missalette) fully allows for a Mass that would mirror a Latin Mass with a few exceptions that could be viewed as improvements.  You could do a Latin(ish) mass with the readings in the local language (or as much as locally deemed necessary for the congregation to understand it), with multiple priests participating (when appropriate).  Very little of the form of the Latin mass is prohibited - but the USCCB and more over local Bishops virtually outlawed it on their own.  

The change from Latin is very sad to me - I understand why it happened, but it is sad.  The powers that be understood that the Latin mass unified all Catholics - every mass in the world was in the same language.  So the powers that be decided to make it "illegal" to teach Latin in school (arguing that the only reason to teach Latin was religion, and we had to separate Church from State).  As fewer and fewer Catholics were getting an education that allowed them to understand the language used in the mass, an allowance was made so that Catholics that went to public schools could understand what was going on.  Not to mention that the Latin mass was difficult for converts - sure you want to become a Catholic, but you really need to learn a new language first.

He has lectures on the subject as well on YouTube. But the book obviously has so much more.

That’s not what I said is it?

Raised Catholic.  Prefer Lutheran.

All the salvation, less of the guilt.

I pretty much avoid all organized religion these days.

But, they are the only one fully enlightened...... 1500 yrs after Defined Scripture (give or take a few hundred)

Why were they excluded?

I did not use "encounter" to mean "feel" and I don't see why you'd think I had, especially given that I had said that the system is abusable, not that everyone will abuse it or that everyone will respond to the temptation in the same way.

your mothers worst fear is that you went to Church?


whew. some of y'all are way to intense over the region thing.

God called for organized religion. Hence the Jewish and Christian Faith.

If you look at all of Jesus's Healings. They healed in order to allow them into the Temple to Worship.

I am avowed Atheist.  Absolutely LOVE going to mass.  I don't go often but do go whenever I get a chance.  I can't take Communion but I really don't care.

We didn't remove them and they were in the bibles protestant used up until not very long ago.

The reasons we believe that the non-apocryphal books are God inspired and his word are the same reasons why we don't believe the apocryphal books are inspired.

Those books do not logically fit with what the other books teach, and the fact that the rcc didn't declare them officially as inspired/God's words until after the debate over over purgatory became a problem sticks out like a sore thumb.

Edit:stupid spelling mistake.

They were removed because they didn’t support the position that the Protestants had. You can’t have a Biblically  based religion if your very scripture contradicts your position so those portions of scripture were discarded. Kinda like modern leftists changing language and definitions to support their position.

OP, I read through the first page but am not going to make it through the next 4.

If you want to ask a believing cradle-Catholic any questions about beliefs, liturgy, etc feel free to IM me. I'll either have an answer or find one for you.

Offer is open for anyone truly interested (not just looking to bash).

Oops. We went to a beautiful catholic cathedral in Chattanooga a few months ago to see what it was like. We all took communion and I’m once divorced and raised Baptist. Oh well. On our way back to our pew, a woman grabbed me and said your son didn’t eat the eucharist. I said excise me, what? She repeated it and then I got it. I looked at my 8 YO and said did you eat the wafer, and he said no, it tasted bad. I’m like ok, cool. She says no, he needs to eat it. I thought to myself, is this going to turn in to a problem? Sooo, I told him to eat it which he did. Odd experience with that woman, but I guess not eating it is a sign of being potentially possessed or something….?

We’ll stick to our little Methodist church for now.