Gives the membership some amount of recourse for unjust actions, mods and staff still have all the power they had before, just have to answer for it in public, compromise

It reminds me of those public meetings the Occupy Wallstreet people used to have.

While I believe that this is a good idea (and had suggested it previously myself) ya gotta think this through.

In an effort to continually find new grist for the mill, we would eventually have all '13er Mods and Site Staff (y'know, not that there's anything wrong with that ) followed a few years later by the Class of '21.

Whatever it turns out to be, it shouldn't be a way to embarrass or belittle anyone. That's why perhaps the public thing should be read only with the two parties the only ones able to make their case. In fact, maybe there should be limits before it hits that point. Maybe only for perma bans or bans of unusual length. I have no idea what different lengths of time outs there are. There are so many options it shouldn't turn into the second favorite forum behind GD. It would be as hard not to look as driving by a car accident.

Very good stuff. The only part I don't think is for the best is the industry partner stuff. You did address that maybe it should be separate and that is correct. I don't think  that side of the site should be a part of the forum. That should be handled by the more professional side of the site.  If this moves forward I want you in on helping to write this out. Help not do it all.

Pretty sure it means shitbird

Not necessarily. Maybe not term limits, but maybe have 2 separate mod/staff teams. Each does a 6 month shift throughout the year. It gives a chance to take a 6 month breather after passing the baton. As long as there's no habitual problems with a mod/staff, they remain on their team.

No at at all the entire concept of trolling will be on the table and that can be hammered out at length between the two parties.

Perfect example is I think a LOT, if not most of all these problems could be squashed with relieving a few key people of their duties to this website, thank them for their tireless service and personal sacrifices and move on and restore trust in the system put in place... But, as alluded to by GB, he puts complete faith in his SS to 'hire' moderators and relieving anybody will undermine the trust SS and Mods put in him...But, won't be done because apparently WE are the problem.

Back to square one

Ben is good people.

You're just happy because we're saying nice things about you.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Yep.

Agree.

fax

Thank you. I know Subnet and I am no Subnet.
I may have been a bit of a target but that will happen when you make yourself a target. Study well and you can fight it.
I am truly humbled by your words. Thank you again for the kind words now feel free to rip my suggestions apart.

Ben-

You’ve clearly put a ton of thought into this, and it is appreciated.  I’ve been watching the (god knows how many) threads about member dissatisfaction, including the Hubris thread in team.

This is excellent framework. It really is.  You’ve stuck your neck out on countless occasions, and while you did so on a very level headed, even keeled way - you still spoke up.

This thread is not only a continuation of that, but an escalation of sorts.

Before now, I’ve never spoken up on site issues.  But, with all that you’ve exposed on all members behalf - I am doing so now.

While I 100% commend you on developing a framework that benefits not only the membership base by way of providing a grievance forum with a focused, identifiable and actionable SOP, you’ve also provided Admin/Staff/Mods a consolidated and direct receptacle for feedback.

I would suggest that every gripe be accompanied by corroborating evidence.

My sole concern (aside from the shitposting contingent of membership turning it into a shitshow) is that any productive and evidentiary grievance aired, will be met with Admin/ Staff dismissiveness.

I don’t mention dismissiveness in a defensive way. I say it as a relatively quiet, non-boat rocking member that observes more than they speak. My concern is that a clear patern of issues that are demonstrated with corroborated evidence will be met with:

Standing high atop the Capitol steps

“Citizens of Arfcom!  We must unite in these trying times...”


Where, in reality, it needs to be:

Rolls up shirtsleeves, laces up work boots and steps onto the jobsite/ production floor.

“ alright guys, things aren’t going right - what do we need to do to turn things around.  You’re the front line.  What are you seeing?”

THAT is what is missing, in my opinion.  Not just acceptance of member input, be execution of their recommendations.

And I say that not only in a tool/ tech implementation aspect, but as a personnel// staffing concern.

I lead organizations.

When there is turmult, it is necessary to listen to those involved/ affected in order to identify, isolate and eliminate the source of contention. Sometimes that’s not possible.  Many times it is.  It may be difficult, but it it a possible.  Nothing happens in a vacuum, and what may seem reasonable in a conference room, may not translate well on a sales floor.

When those (rare) occasions occur in my orgs, I suck it up, meet with the teams, and without calling out any individual specifically, acknowledge that there have been mistakes made and ultimately, the buck stops here.  Changes will be made and new policies/ procedures/ tools implemented to ensure that they don’t reoccur, and to better enable the front lines (in this case, membership) can continue on and succeed.

I hope you have buy-in from Admin/ Staff that it is a reciprocal/ 2-way street where member input results in substantive change, less dismissiveness, or worse, retribution,  

{preparing myself for imminent ban}

I doubt they would go for it, but maybe we have an oversight committee made up of members that would be granted the power to remove someone from their post if voted by unanimous decision. The members of this committee could be voted on by the membership, and terms last 6 months. I don't want this to devolve into mod/staff bashing, but I understand their is a lack of trust, this would for sure be a gesture of goodwill.

Or members could just stop being whiny little bitches. You have to fucking try to get banned from this forum.

I swear, all the negativity about the site recently is from leftist plants trying to tear this place apart.

always got your back dogg. Here, there, anywhere

Atleast it would be obvious to everyone which mods or staff keep stepping on their dick and would be more likely that action would be taken against them.

Rome wasnt built in a day.

Some folks have a legit complaint. If you think its all rainbows and skittles, fine.....but your attacking people as whiney bitches is pouring fuel on the fire. Either add something to the conversation in a respectful manner or move along.

This is not that. This is a forum for you to go and talk to mods and staff about warnings bans and locks.

Interesting, thanks

I was really hoping you were going to say whiny little left wing commie bitches, but that will do.

This would be a way to bring daylight to a bad warning, etc.

If you can show publically that certain mods are making bad calls, it would put pressure on managment to remove them.

Haven’t read the rest of the pages yet, but I would also add that paying members need to be accounts older than 30 days.


Otherwise, I’m proud of your effort here Ben.  Good work!

It should cover the entire site so far as members go. No the forum is not about members having problems with members. It is for having discussions with staff and mods on why things that happened happened.

Not necessarily,  I'm no attorney, but if you keep charging for the same apparent crime and it keeps getting appealed  maybe you stop trying to charge for that apparent crime.

I meant new people as site staff, especially the ones who have been in that position for over 10 years. It’s time for a change in that regard - just my opinion in the matter.

No, but it was burned down in one.

Arfcom's leaders would do well to remember how long it takes to build good will and how quickly it can be destroyed.

 dude you know what is going on and I invite you in hear to to talk

Damn you are harsh on this.

You're right you're no attorney

And?????

I get that, but what you're asking for is a pipedream that will probably never happen. However, with my idea of splitting the staff/mods into 2 teams and having 1 take take over for 6 months, then hand it off to the other for the next 6 months would atleast be a feasible start and possibly help with burnout. Not saying it will solve every issue, but its a start and I think would be a fair offer.

Don't just get your toes wet jump in.

Great idea Ben, glad to see someone is concerned about the direction of the site and articulate enough to explore solutions....  

I know. A forum like that is just not the place for me. When I eventually get banned, I'll just move on. Maybe finally go back to that Blog I started years ago.

I think it would be degrading to plead for my account back, publicly or privately.  This place was here for years before I joined, and it will probably continue to exist after I'm gone.

Not sure I can at this time. Demanding heads isn't always the best. It can turn a heathy place into a place of attacks and death. We don't run this place admin does. I have to keep that in mind.

ARFCOMtivus…a Forum for the rest of us!


1.  Put a Bolt Face in a bag and nail it to the wall (which is considered “the true symbol of ARFCOMtivus”).

2. Sit down at a Computer.

3. Before browsing post the Airing of Grievances, an opportunity to tell Staff how they have disappointed you in the past year.

4. Enjoy ARFCOMtivus posts.

5. Amid post, the Feats of Strength begin, where Staff must be trolled by other team members. The honor goes to someone in the thread.

6.  ARFCOMtivus is not over until the Sr Staff locks someone!

Not at all and it has been covered.

I like the shift work idea. It damn sure makes the "Off Duty" a regular member for a bit. Admiral King did this in WWII

I try. More should step forward

Paying members and 15 plus years. There is skin in the game and enough experience to have seen, and participated over the years and most likely know the subjects in question.

I, unfortunately, have a hard time forgetting things. I am too good, for my own good, at recognizing patterns.

Not It!!!

I learned that from Batman

I love ya, Ben!

No Homo!!!

Kind of like a union rep. that goes in to help you when you are suspended for shooting someone.