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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:45:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like these 8 better: 1. You will obey code of conduct without question. 2. Punishment shall be swift. 3. Mercy is for the weak. 4. Trolling will defeat reason. 5. Your allegiance is to the forum. 6. Justice can be dictated. 7. Any Team member may challenge for leadership of the Forum. 8. There is only one penalty - BAN! |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:45:27 PM EDT
[#2]
After the problem is addressed, who will judge it , members,mods,staff, a mix or a single person?
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:46:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After the problem is addressed, who will judge it , members,mods,staff, a mix or a single person? Good question. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:46:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Sounds like a start...
IMO there needs to be a trusted member of SS there to make final decisions, someone the membership knows is impartial. Once that person is agreed upon (that is important) than a forum can proceed and a group of members(selected Mods of that forum) can filter out the various grievances and decide if they warrant SS stepping in and making a final decision. This forum should be handled by the members and at least TRY not to shovel massive piles of grievances to the SS. Can ya tell I am a shop steward 
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:47:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Tag
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:47:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't they do that at one of the AK forums? AK Files has a public "banned members" thread which has the name, duration, and sometimes the reason for the ban. They also tend to not perma many people over there. I like the idea but it would need to be modified to apply to Arf properly |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:47:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After the problem is addressed, who will judge it , members,mods,staff, a mix or a single person? |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:47:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems like a reasonable concept. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:48:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tag Mod ? Congrats |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:48:45 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm not sure what the point is. Sounds like "The Pit - Lite."
Site and Mods "Back The Black" and aren't (generally) willing to go against one another. I appreciate your effort though. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:48:51 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm for anything that will help at this point.
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:48:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After the problem is addressed, who will judge it , members,mods,staff, a mix or a single person? What does “addressed” mean? |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:49:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think this would be a good idea, as long as staff and moderators aren’t allowed to move threads into the grievance forum. I wouldn’t want it to become a dumping place for threads they don’t want to deal with in GD. I think it would be ok if grievance threads got moved from GD into the new sub. Assuming they are in fact grievance threads, and not being moved for the sake of sweeping them under the rug. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:49:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like a start... IMO there needs to be a trusted member of SS there to make final decisions, someone the membership knows is impartial. Once that person is agreed upon (that is important) than a forum can proceed and a group of members(selected Mods of that forum) can filter out the various grievances and decide if they warrant SS stepping in and making a final decision. This forum should be handled by the members and at least TRY not to shovel massive piles of grievances to the SS. Can ya tell I am a shop steward The more the members are involved, the less work (potentially) for mods. Figuring out the exact system and people would take time but it's a good idea. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:50:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A method for paying members to cast a vote on unbanning or keeping the ban in place may be useful. (If it has to be restricted to people with more skin in the game, Perhaps gold members or better, or 10+ years can vote?) It’s self policing. That would be undermining SS actions, which is not and should not happen. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:50:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like a start... IMO there needs to be a trusted member of SS there to make final decisions, someone the membership knows is impartial. Once that person is agreed upon (that is important) than a forum can proceed and a group of members(selected Mods of that forum) can filter out the various grievances and decide if they warrant SS stepping in and making a final decision. This forum should be handled by the members and at least TRY not to shovel massive piles of grievances to the SS. Can ya tell I am a shop steward |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:50:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it would be ok if grievance threads got moved from GD into the new sub. Assuming they are in fact grievance threads, and not being moved for the sake of sweeping them under the rug. I mean the current trend for grievance threads has been to vaporize them which is the worst thing you can do in my opinion. It doesn't send a good message to GD when grievances people have are vaporized. All of these threads have been getting massive traffic due to recent events and they've all been vaporized within 1-3 days of being posted. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:50:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tag |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:51:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AK Files has a public "banned members" thread which has the name, duration, and sometimes the reason for the ban. They also tend to not perma many people over there. I like the idea but it would need to be modified to apply to Arf properly |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:51:13 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AK Files has a public "banned members" thread which has the name, duration, and sometimes the reason for the ban. They also tend to not perma many people over there. I like the idea but it would need to be modified to apply to Arf properly Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Don't they do that at one of the AK forums? AK Files has a public "banned members" thread which has the name, duration, and sometimes the reason for the ban. They also tend to not perma many people over there. I like the idea but it would need to be modified to apply to Arf properly Almost. They had a sub forum that popped up when you got banned. Only mods and staff could see it other than yourself. I know this because I saw it myself. I was banned there because they thought I was some other guy that lived in Wisconsin or some shit. The only feedback I got was "sorry, guess we fucked up". Still banned. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:52:01 PM EDT
[#21]
This occurred to me: include rules similar to Team forum rules:
Don't post anything in here that is a direct, obvious CoC violation. Don't post anything in here that any reasonable human wouldn't say to another human being face to face when meeting them for the first time. ……. That's it. Really. Be nice, respectful, offer good solid informed advice, keep your mouth shut when you have nothing of actual value to add to a conversation, and you will never have a problem with us |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:52:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Here's an idea:
What about inviting recently banned members into the new grievance sub - those who were banned before it was created? Maybe with some time the wounds (both with users and with mods/staff) would heal and people would come back and understand each other. Or maybe I'm just dreaming of fairies and unicorns and the BOTD thread. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:52:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure if there will be judgment at this time. I don't really think it should be for punishment. Besides Staff can be judged by admin its should be in admins hands on that. Members are given judgment by staff. The name would be a quasi "members advocate" on site staff, other names for it |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:52:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure what the point is. Sounds like "The Pit - Lite." Site and Mods "Back The Black" and aren't (generally) willing to go against one another. I appreciate your effort though. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:53:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a suggestion. Make a "friends" button, so that if two people both friend each other, it shows up as friends. But you won't get notified unless you both mutually click eachother's friends buttons. REPEAT: it's not like a friend request, so you won't be notified if somebody sends a friend invite. I can think of many members I would like to friend. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:53:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean the current trend for grievance threads has been to vaporize them which is the worst thing you can do in my opinion. It doesn't send a good message to GD when grievances people have are vaporized. All of these threads have been getting massive traffic due to recent events and they've all been vaporized within 1-3 days of being posted. Everyone would know about the new grievance thread, would probably be a sticky at the top of GD. And they wouldn't be vaporized (or at least shouldn't be in this new system!) so people could still follow and comment in them. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:53:38 PM EDT
[#27]
I was anxious about this big post coming up. Generally, good work.
I need some time to digest. This generally isn't a bad place to start; and I'd fair to say it's leaps and bounds better than many of the other suggestions I've seen floated so far. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:54:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does "addressed" mean? |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:54:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Almost. They had a sub forum that popped up when you got banned. Only mods and staff could see it other than yourself. I know this because I saw it myself. I was banned there because they thought I was some other guy that lived in Wisconsin or some shit. The only feedback I got was "sorry, guess we fucked up". Still banned. There is a public thread in their GD called "BANNED LIST" It still exists and could be a good reference for some ideas. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:55:41 PM EDT
[#30]
I suppose this makes some sense, There’s been a number of threads in GD and team discussing recently (and not so recently) banned members. It appears that for one reason or another those threads don’t go great. Having a place for people to discuss these things has possibilities, but it would require a lot of restraint for both members and staff/mods.
We do need to do something around here though as there seems to be a shitload of animosity between groups. There’s a lot of hostility floating around here and it sure doesn’t seem to be getting better. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:55:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does “addressed” mean? Discussed at length in a reasonable way governed by coc, i.e. Plead your case in the open for all to see |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:56:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its not that at all. Its a place outside of GD to address problems. Understood. The success of your idea depends on how much time mods and staff could dedicate to it. It's a decent idea but the time necessary to make it successful is not something I can see working. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:57:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It means that people can talk to each other without getting the static from GD. Basically the email/IM exchange between a member and mod/staff about a warning/lock aired publicly? Or can another member bring up a sanction about someone else? |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:57:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This occurred to me: include rules similar to Team forum rules: Don't post anything in here that is a direct, obvious CoC violation. Don't post anything in here that any reasonable human wouldn't say to another human being face to face when meeting them for the first time. . That's it. Really. Be nice, respectful, offer good solid informed advice, keep your mouth shut when you have nothing of actual value to add to a conversation, and you will never have a problem with us |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:58:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AK Files has a public "banned members" thread which has the name, duration, and sometimes the reason for the ban. They also tend to not perma many people over there. I like the idea but it would need to be modified to apply to Arf properly They will permaban retreads and blatant trolls. They will only perma long tiime members after multiple temp bans. And when I say multiple, it's like a dozen of increasing length up to a year |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:58:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is one way to do it. I would rather the mod or staffer get to have their say though. I see reason why other mods and staff could not join in though. The Mod already had their say when they moderated or took a certain action that was called into question, so it would be kinda redundant.. A member of the proposed forum could IM the Mod (if applicable) and ask him to explain the reason why an action was taken. Let's face it, if such a forum was to be created, it will be inundated with a LOT of BS and then guess what ? the Mods of that forum will be the enemy lol Appreciate your work Ben. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:58:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its going better than I thought Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tag Same |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:58:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The name would be a quasi "members advocate" on site staff, other names for it |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:58:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like a start... IMO there needs to be a trusted member of SS there to make final decisions, someone the membership knows is impartial. Once that person is agreed upon (that is important) than a forum can proceed and a group of members(selected Mods of that forum) can filter out the various grievances and decide if they warrant SS stepping in and making a final decision. This forum should be handled by the members and at least TRY not to shovel massive piles of grievances to the SS. Can ya tell I am a shop steward Personally i think dk prof is the most fair and level headed staffer. He usually comes around and tries to atleast give an explanation of whats going on. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:59:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was anxious about this big post coming up. Generally, good work. I need some time to digest. This generally isn't a bad place to start; and I'd fair to say it's leaps and bounds better than many of the other suggestions I've seen floated so far. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:59:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Personally i think dk prof is the most fair and level headed staffer. He usually comes around and tries to atleast give an explanation of whats going on. I think there are some mods/ss that are generally trusted and respected a lot more than others who seem to be called out more often. I'll leave it at that for now but I believe we could find a group of level people that together balance out and would be as impartial as humans can be. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 10:59:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its going better than I thought It's because you're not a dick. People know you're trying to help. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:00:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Every case doesn't need to go to it, just if the member or staff/mod want to plead case publicly
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:00:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a public thread in their GD called "BANNED LIST" It still exists and could be a good reference for some ideas. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Almost. They had a sub forum that popped up when you got banned. Only mods and staff could see it other than yourself. I know this because I saw it myself. I was banned there because they thought I was some other guy that lived in Wisconsin or some shit. The only feedback I got was "sorry, guess we fucked up". Still banned. There is a public thread in their GD called "BANNED LIST" It still exists and could be a good reference for some ideas. I know, that isn't what I'm talking about though. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:01:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Basically the email/IM exchange between a member and mod/staff about a warning/lock aired publicly? Or can another member bring up a sanction about someone else? |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:02:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Mod already had their say when they moderated or took a certain action that was called into question, so it would be kinda redundant.. A member of the proposed forum could IM the Mod (if applicable) and ask him to explain the reason why an action was taken. Let's face it, if such a forum was to be created, it will be inundated with a LOT of BS and then guess what ? the Mods of that forum will be the enemy lol Appreciate your work Ben. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:02:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We do need to do something around here though as there seems to be a shitload of animosity between groups. There’s a lot of hostility floating around here and it sure doesn’t seem to be getting better. User/member created private groups that they can invite people into and that people can ask to join. arfcom is like one giant 500k member facebook group. In reality it might be better to have subdivisions within it, as well as open spaces. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:03:17 PM EDT
[#48]
Sounds like the pit.
A grievances forum to publicly be able to air decisions you disagree with would be a good thing. As long as the airing of grievances isn’t considered some sort of CoC violation for ‘attacking mods’. |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:03:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same |
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:03:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then bans would just be a popularity contest. You could break rules all day long if you had enough folks in your corner. I dont think that would fly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A method for paying members to cast a vote on unbanning or keeping the ban in place may be useful. (If it has to be restricted to people with more skin in the game, Perhaps gold members or better, or 10+ years can vote?) It's self policing. Then bans would just be a popularity contest. You could break rules all day long if you had enough folks in your corner. I dont think that would fly. If you screw up man up and work it out with staff one on one. https://www.ar15.com/about/ |
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