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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:28:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bring a rifle to a gunfight This ultimately was the deciding factor. I know this will not be popular but the local police would most likely handled the situation better. How many people does the average FBI agent arrest vs every day cops? Yeah basically zero. Those guys had were not prepared for the situation that they were in and they paid the price. And for those that want to argue, what? |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:28:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Cardio
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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:32:58 AM EDT
[#3]
pistols are to get you to your rifle
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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:33:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep shooting at and moving away from the feds until you can get away. This |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:33:35 AM EDT
[#5]
SWAT trained agents needed rifles and all needed body armor.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:36:29 AM EDT
[#6]
The agents themselves said they really didn't think they would find the bad guys, so they weren't properly prepared.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:45:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Always bring a gunship (be it an Apache, an AC-130 or an A-10) to a Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Always bring a rifle to a pistol fight Always bring a gunship (be it an Apache, an AC-130 or an A-10) to a  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:58:21 AM EDT
[#8]
It would have been all different if they'd had 10mm
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Posted: 2/27/2021 2:59:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would have been all different if they'd had 10mm |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:01:09 AM EDT
[#10]
I believe they had body armor but they didn’t wear it because of the Miami heat. And they had M-16s and MP-5s available, but they were distributed out to different FBI stake-out teams leaving the team that engaged the suspects with only their handguns and an 870. Combine those factors with the fact that the suspects were better trained and used that training and superior small unit tactics to overwhelm the under prepared FBI agents, and they were at a severe disadvantage.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:02:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Covert is better than overt.
in 1986 the technical capabilities to be covert were limited compared to the modern era. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:07:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Didn't someone say to practice with your non-dominant hand?
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:12:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: What do you think? Make sure your buddies with MP5s aren’t so busy banging a waitress that they can’t back you up in a gunfight. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:19:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Being an arrogant pack of JBT's doesn't cut it when your opfor is more heavily armed and has a fighting mindset.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:31:51 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe they had body armor but they didn’t wear it because of the Miami heat. And they had M-16s and MP-5s available, but they were distributed out to different FBI stake-out teams leaving the team that engaged the suspects with only their handguns and an 870. Combine those factors with the fact that the suspects were better trained and used that training and superior small unit tactics to overwhelm the under prepared FBI agents, and they were at a severe disadvantage. Might as well be suspect (singular). One of the two suspects got off a single ineffective round of birdshot before taking a grazing hit to the skull that knocked him out for a while. He woke up at the end of the fight, didn't fire any more rounds, and was shot and killed while trying to escape. His contribution to the fight was essentially zero. 99% of the mayhem and all the FBI injuries and deaths were caused by one bad guy. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:35:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being an arrogant pack of JBT's doesn't cut it when your opfor is more heavily armed and has a fighting mindset. This is the truth. I don’t consider them jbt but they underestimated the opponent . They fd up Again tell me were local PD would not have been a better solution? The fbi does not arrest people or engage the public daily. They always fail at these tasks and should stick to accounting criminals. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:39:27 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:49:01 AM EDT
[#18]
The fact that LE didn't bring rifles was mind boggling.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 3:53:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact that LE didn't bring rifles was mind boggling. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 4:01:16 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: pistols are to get you to your rifle |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 4:18:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wear my glasses keeper Bring a spare pair Use a rifle Dropped my glasses into the ocean yesterday at work. My spare I thought I had in the glove box wasn't there for some reason. Had an hour long drive home squinting to think about how bad I fucked up on that. Five new pairs ordered from Zenni Optical. Do regular inventory check on your shit to make sure you have it. Don't bring a handgun to a rifle fight. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 4:20:59 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Avoid shootouts |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 4:30:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Don't, as the car with the only MP5's in the group, get caught Eiffel Towering a local waitress with your bud while the rest of your buddies are getting fucked up by badguys with more motivation and firepower.
ETA:beat by steviesgal. Damnit. 
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Posted: 2/27/2021 4:33:55 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't, as the car with the only MP5's in the group, get caught Eiffel Towering a local waitress with your bud while the rest of your buddies are getting fucked up by badguys with more motivation and firepower. ETA:beat by steviesgal. Damnit. I know John Ross put that in _Unintended Consequences_, but is there actually documentation that it actually happened that way? |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 4:34:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bring [more than] enough gun and keep shooting until the fucker is good and dead. This |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 4:40:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryBeat me. Very important and overlooked thing. If you NEED your glasses have a method to keep them on your face under exertion. Going blind in a fight is not good. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 4:56:29 AM EDT
[#27]
I wear glasses.
If you wear glasses carry a back up set, if you are likely to get in a gun fight. I carry back up sets in case I lose or break them otherwise I wouldn’t be able to drive home or anywhere. I wouldn’t be able to shoot shot without them either. Also don’t fuck about with a gun that’s been shot and is fucked taking two people out of the fight. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 5:13:28 AM EDT
[#28]
Don't leave the SWAT team at Denny's flirting with the waitresses while the old dudes with revolvers look for bank robbers.
Bring a rifle. Also, eyeglass retainer strap, if you're that blind. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 5:42:46 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know John Ross put that in _Unintended Consequences_, but is there actually documentation that it actually happened that way? Ask Mas Ayoob. I've several friends who are close personal friends of his. They all say he gave the same info after discussing the incident with those involved. So Yea, friend of a friend kind of thing, but from ffriends in the industry that i trust and who independently corroborated that they were told the same. I've no idea about the book. I read it ages ago, but remember very, very little of it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 6:08:11 AM EDT
[#30]
Make sure your glasses cant fly off.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 6:08:59 AM EDT
[#31]
LAPD should've learned lessons from '86 Miami BEFORE '97 North Hollywood.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 7:24:23 AM EDT
[#32]
FBI is incompetent just like the IRS and ATF.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 7:25:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bring enough gun and keep shooting until the fucker is good and dead. Yep. Always have more ammo and higher capacity magazine than the enemy. Never bring a pistol to a shootout with a rifle. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:12:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you see a toilet in a dream do not use it. /thread |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:17:50 AM EDT
[#35]
Ed Mireless is giving lectures around the country on this topic. I hosted him a few years ago...he lays it all out.
Don't go looking for things you don't expect to find. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:19:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Don’t shoot on unmonitored, open to the public ranges, alone?
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:20:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Never leave mom's basement.
Bring a bigger gun. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:20:51 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bring a rifle to a gunfight This, or shoot them in the face. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:22:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Always bring a gunship (be it an Apache, an AC-130 or an A-10) to a Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Always bring a rifle to a pistol fight Always bring a gunship (be it an Apache, an AC-130 or an A-10) to a That was the takeaway from Mogadishu, but they knew it going into it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:23:53 AM EDT
[#40]
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:30:59 AM EDT
[#41]
Plan better.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:32:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bring enough gun and keep shooting until the fucker is good and dead. This. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:34:59 AM EDT
[#43]
No, that's wong. Don't underestimate the opponent just because they don't have the fanciest equipment. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:36:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Don't draw your pistol until the car is stopped.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:37:31 AM EDT
[#45]
 Heat (1995) - Shootout Scene - Bank Robbery [HD - 21:9] |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:37:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Don't pull your thang out unless you plan to bang.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:39:15 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ed Mireless is giving lectures around the country on this topic. I hosted him a few years ago...he lays it all out. Don't go looking for things you don't expect to find. Read "FBI Miami Firefight" by Edmundo (Ed) & Elizabeth Mireles as it will give you the true perspective of the event. |
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:42:09 AM EDT
[#48]
One day you might run across someone who doesn't GAF if you wear a badge. Be prepared for that day.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:51:43 AM EDT
[#49]
Drink your Ovaltine.
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Posted: 2/27/2021 8:54:46 AM EDT
[#50]
learn to code
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