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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:21:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Can anyone explain what legal responsibility an LEO has to "issue a verbal warning"????
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:21:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuote History |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:21:49 PM EDT
[#3]
ETA weird double tap
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:22:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What those officers thought probably does not matter. What matters is that the guy who fired thought. We don't know that yet. I think some sort of Castle doctrine will be applied and whether cop or not, inside the non public area, I think it may well apply. Ummmmm. Subjective reasonableness is not the standard. Subjective reasonableness without objective reasonableness will get you manslaughter. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:22:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't believe he was afraid for even a second. He acted simply to secure his future with the new regime. Nothing more than a calculated act of murder. I wouldn't be surprised if he was instructed ahead of time to do it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "At this point, what difference does it make?" They're never going to charge him. He'll get an award from Biden soon. I don't believe he was afraid for even a second. He acted simply to secure his future with the new regime. Nothing more than a calculated act of murder. I wouldn't be surprised if he was instructed ahead of time to do it. Is he going to claim he was retreating too? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:22:32 PM EDT
[#6]
It's .gov property, which doesn't belong to the citizens? How can you trespass on your own property? .gov is royalty, superior to the citizens in all terms, that's what we have now.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:23:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A pane of glass makes all the difference? If that's the case, the shooter wasn't where she was. At the moment he fired he, nor anyone else beyond that pane of glass was in any danger. The other officers were where she was. They knew what was beyond that pane of glass. They didn't opt for deadly force, or any force at all, other than their presence. Hopefully we'll see where the courts go. We don't know what any particular person knew or reasonably believed, at that moment. Much like the media, people like to banter and suppose stuff without concrete facts beyond the same video the media showed us. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:23:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can anyone explain what legal responsibility an LEO has to "issue a verbal warning"???? There is no legal requirement. It is a matter of department policy. "When practicable" is pretty standard language. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:23:46 PM EDT
[#9]
The 4 heavily armed and armored officers that were within 5ft of her didn't see her as a mortal threat but the guy 15ft away did?
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:25:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Won't happen when the person who is ensuring the CoC is followed is actively participating. Exactly. However, I have to step away for some unspecified period of time. I'll check back later to make sure everything stays on the up and up with legitimate discussion. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:25:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can anyone explain what legal responsibility an LEO has to "issue a verbal warning"???? The legal standard, Fed and Ohio is " If Practical ". |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:28:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's .gov property, which doesn't belong to the citizens? How can you trespass on your own property? .gov is royalty, superior to the citizens in all terms, that's what we have now. Try to just walk into a military installation or some other non public area of a government facility and I think you will find your answer. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:29:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can anyone explain what legal responsibility an LEO has to "issue a verbal warning"???? In the sense of criminal law? None. Could it bolster a self defense claim? Sure, if someone is advancing despite warnings it’s reasonable to believe their intent is more nefarious than otherwise. I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know the details but as I understand it failing to follow policy (which may require warnings) can have implications in civil law. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:29:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was she past the door or not? While it may be a window at the side of the door, same same. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:31:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's .gov property, which doesn't belong to the citizens? How can you trespass on your own property? .gov is royalty, superior to the citizens in all terms, that's what we have now. Government couldn’t function if it can’t keep people out of facilities. Which is why Ashli should have been arrested for trespassing. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:31:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 4 heavily armed and armored officers that were within 5ft of her didn't see her as a mortal threat but the guy 15ft away did? If there’s no reason to believe the shooter knew, it won’t matter much. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:34:24 PM EDT
[#17]
How do things go from this:
 Attached FileTo this: https://www.bitchute.com/video/gaByvLTqf0md/  Shooter has to disassemble the barricade of desks and furniture they have piled in that room to step out in the hall to shoot her. ETA: I’m leaning on masked brown tie guy standing to the left of door now as shooter. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:34:43 PM EDT
[#18]
So our ultra-transparent and open gov will not release or even discuss Ms Ashli Babbitt's murder, even though LE and other people were all around, in broad daylight and there were cameras rolling.
Then the whole thing is off limits to the entire MSM. All that is a whole butt load of WTF! Lets talk about who her family and supporters are or were. What's happening on the home front to seek justice/reckoning for her murder? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:35:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This may seem strange to the TV studio in your pocket generation, but most building security cameras don't have audio and the guy was wearing a mask. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:35:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I'm not mistaken the cops in tac gear were on the packed stairs trying to work their way through crowd when she was shot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The window she was entering went into a hallway. It wasn't an office and there weren't any VIP's nearby. There were multiple other parties in the hallway watching and none of them appeared to be alarmed or fearful about the situation. The shooter approached quickly from the side and may not have even been visible to Ashli before the shot. This is all on video and having watched it several times I do not hear any commands from the shooter (doesn't mean he didn't give any). I'm still perplexed by the series or events. There are cops in tac gear directly behind Ashli when she is shot who just stand there unconcerned about the whole thing. It's hard to see but no one appears to make any contact with the shooter after that point (at least on camera) or try to figure out what's going on. They don't appear to give two fucks about the unarmed woman bleeding out at their feet  If I'm not mistaken the cops in tac gear were on the packed stairs trying to work their way through crowd when she was shot. It looks like they were going on their lunch break and couldn't be bothered with all that excitement. Did they ever figure out why some of the cops let people in? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:37:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If there’s no reason to believe the shooter knew, it won’t matter much. Yup. Looks like the other cops were just arriving out of view of the shooter. I want to know what the ROE/Use of Force policy is for the shooter (we still dont know what organization he belongs to). I want to know if some politician gave the order to kill anyone who passes a certain point. Most likely the shooter was a commie lib and believed all Trump supporter are murderous racist nazi's and acted out of that BS. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:38:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Can ya'll imagine the next ghetto goblin shooting and the name of the cop is held secret along with all the details....
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:38:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So our ultra-transparent and open gov will not release or even discuss Ms Ashli Babbitt's murder, even though LE and other people were all around, in broad daylight and there were cameras rolling. Then the whole thing is off limits to the entire MSM. All that is a whole butt load of WTF! Lets talk about who her family and supporters are or were. What's happening on the home front to seek justice/reckoning for her murder? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:45:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Racializing will not be allowed in this thread What? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:50:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, the courts will end up ordering us all shot in the back of the head. Just give it time... |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:52:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. Looks like the other cops were just arriving out of view of the shooter. I want to know what the ROE/Use of Force policy is for the shooter (we still dont know what organization he belongs to). I want to know if some politician gave the order to kill anyone who passes a certain point. Most likely the shooter was a commie lib and believed all Trump supporter are murderous racist nazi's and acted out of that BS. There are federal agencies that have UOF policies that allow shootings more aggressive than the general law. The difference is, they have specific laws that allow that. Look for instance at the authority of DOE to use lethal force to prevent attempts to control a cargo. That’s based on an actual law, not a policy. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:52:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do things go from this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/318955/B1AF17F9-595A-4E82-8451-E532BA9372E4_jpe-1840901.JPG To this: https://www.bitchute.com/video/gaByvLTqf0md/ Shooter has to disassemble the barricade of desks and furniture they have piled in that room to step out in the hall to shoot her. ETA: I’m leaning on masked brown tie guy standing to the left of door now as shooter. That’s not the location of the shooting. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:55:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Racializing will not be allowed in this thread What? Guessing that we're not allowed to notice the race of the shooter. Which is hilarious considering the opposite is immediately the first factor publicized when the roles are reversed |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:55:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Like when my kid swears she brushed her teeth when I told her to, but her toothbrush is dry?
Kharn |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:56:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s not the location of the shooting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How do things go from this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/318955/B1AF17F9-595A-4E82-8451-E532BA9372E4_jpe-1840901.JPG To this: https://www.bitchute.com/video/gaByvLTqf0md/ Shooter has to disassemble the barricade of desks and furniture they have piled in that room to step out in the hall to shoot her. ETA: I’m leaning on masked brown tie guy standing to the left of door now as shooter. That’s not the location of the shooting. Well, that clears everything up.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:57:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The legal standard, Fed and Ohio is " If Practical ". I am aware. Obviously you and tim the enchanter are as well. Just curious if some of these other blowhards have any clue what they are talking a out. In my experience, they do not....... |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:59:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am aware. Obviously you and tim the enchanter are as well. Just curious if some of these other blowhards have any clue what they are talking a out. In my experience, they do not....... Was I wrong? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:00:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm actually impressed he didn't shoot one of his guys first. His name will be outted soon. Until then we have his face. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:03:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Racializing will not be allowed in this thread So someone here could read some words in another post and he/she/it would be radicalized (I think that's what you meant)? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:05:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guessing that we're not allowed to notice the race of the shooter. Which is hilarious considering the opposite is immediately the first factor publicized when the roles are reversed Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Racializing will not be allowed in this thread What? Guessing that we're not allowed to notice the race of the shooter. Which is hilarious considering the opposite is immediately the first factor publicized when the roles are reversed We all know that race is never a factor in murder cases, no need to discuss. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:05:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So someone here could read some words in another post and he/she/it would be radicalized (I think that's what you meant)? No, I meant racialized. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:17:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try to just walk into a military installation or some other non public area of a government facility and I think you will find your answer. Thinking way back when Trump was President in the Whitehouse, if some ANTIFA gal & her pals broke in there (because it is "THE Peoples House"!!) and advanced past clearly locked doors and then continued by entering broken windows they themselves had broken out of locked doors so they could continue their advance forward toward "The Protected Person", I'd think the guards would eventually light that person up and 99% here on G.D. would be cheering it. Not going to be popular, but there it is. When Police Point Loaded guns at you, "Play Time" is OVER ... |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:19:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thinking way back when Trump was President in the Whitehouse, if some ANTIFA gal & her pals broke in there (because it is "THE Peoples House"!!) and advanced past clearly locked doors and then continued by entering broken windows they themselves had broken out of locked doors so they could continue their advance forward toward "The Protected Person", I'd think the guards would eventually light that person up and 99% here on G.D. would be cheering it. Not going to be popular, but there it is. When Police Point Loaded guns at you, "Play Time" is OVER ... The secret service regularly arrests living intruders and historically has a strong record of taking alive people who JUST SHOT or shot at the President. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:20:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thinking way back when Trump was President in the Whitehouse, if some ANTIFA gal & her pals broke in there (because it is "THE Peoples House"!!) and advanced past clearly locked doors and then continued by entering broken windows they themselves had broken out of locked doors so they could continue their advance forward toward "The Protected Person", I'd think the guards would eventually light that person up and 99% here on G.D. would be cheering it. Not going to be popular, but there it is. When Police Point Loaded guns at you, "Play Time" is OVER ... Or they could, you know, not shoot unarmed people that don’t present a threat like they continue to do on a regular basis. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:21:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What those officers thought probably does not matter. What matters is that the guy who fired thought. We don't know that yet. I think some sort of Castle doctrine will be applied and whether cop or not, inside the non public area, I think it may well apply. "Qualified immunity"... |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:21:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “At this point, what difference does it make?” They’re never going to charge him. He’ll get an award from Biden soon. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:21:57 PM EDT
[#42]
The guy is guilty of murder.
I wish Trump would have outed him. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:22:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryCertainly wasnt putting his mask on with 2 hands on his firearm... |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:22:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Case law may well consider it as such beyond that point. An example, a mob floods in to loot stop and shop. Staff flees into a back office not open to the public. Mob tries to breach the door and the manager fires to protect his employees from the perceived threat. It is very likely in most castle doctrine states that he could claim this and it would hold up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's a shame that it's not their castle tho. Case law may well consider it as such beyond that point. An example, a mob floods in to loot stop and shop. Staff flees into a back office not open to the public. Mob tries to breach the door and the manager fires to protect his employees from the perceived threat. It is very likely in most castle doctrine states that he could claim this and it would hold up. No, not because of castle doctrine. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:23:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not the location of the shooting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How do things go from this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/318955/B1AF17F9-595A-4E82-8451-E532BA9372E4_jpe-1840901.JPG To this: https://www.bitchute.com/video/gaByvLTqf0md/ Shooter has to disassemble the barricade of desks and furniture they have piled in that room to step out in the hall to shoot her. ETA: I'm leaning on masked brown tie guy standing to the left of door now as shooter. That's not the location of the shooting. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:25:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or they could, you know, not shoot unarmed people that don’t present a threat like they continue to do on a regular basis. I don't think this is a " regular basis" sort of event. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:26:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Police don’t have a duty to retreat. You know that. And orders don’t take precedence over the law or even written policy. You know that too. They also don’t have a duty to summarily execute citizens for trespassing on public property. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:27:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was I wrong? Nope. Sorry, forgot to mention you. I also agree that some (havent seen them all) FED UOF policies are definitely much more “liberal” than most state/local UOF policies. Someone mentioned it earlier - I would be very interested to know if those guys were told that this is the line in the sand, use deadly force if anyone crosses it. Would not surprise me one bit. It will also not surprise me if that is true, whoever “issued” that order will deny it..... |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:28:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try to just walk into a military installation or some other non public area of a government facility and I think you will find your answer. Pretty sure theres going to be numerous warnings from numerous people... not just bang! |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:28:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, not because of castle doctrine. I’m always amused when the cops argue with the lawyers. |
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