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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:43:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Disease is overstating it. But things are different for different people. I'm not an addiction type of person and also not the type that gets a high from weed or pain pills. I just get groggy. But I don't have demons in my head that need drowned out. That makes avoiding drugs easier I guess.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:43:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll remind you that stopping alchohol or benzodiazepines can and will kill a person. The only ones that can. There is no choice. Use or die. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Depends on your definition of disease I guess. In general, imo, getting addicted and staying addicted is ultimately a choice. One decision that led to many hundreds/thousands of future decisions that got easier and easier to make as time went on. Stopping is hard. Being hard doesn't mean it's no longer a choice. I’ll remind you that stopping alchohol or benzodiazepines can and will kill a person. The only ones that can. There is no choice. Use or die. Yeah, no. Withdrawals can kill you but it is not use or die. People choose to medically detox all the time |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:44:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course there is a choice. They can taper off before they quit. You make it sound like being an alcoholic is a life sentence. This obviously isn't true. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Depends on your definition of disease I guess. In general, imo, getting addicted and staying addicted is ultimately a choice. One decision that led to many hundreds/thousands of future decisions that got easier and easier to make as time went on. Stopping is hard. Being hard doesn't mean it's no longer a choice. I’ll remind you that stopping alchohol or benzodiazepines can and will kill a person. The only ones that can. There is no choice. Use or die. Of course there is a choice. They can taper off before they quit. You make it sound like being an alcoholic is a life sentence. This obviously isn't true. It’s absolutely true. Once an alchoholic, you’re always an alchoholic. It’s a brain thing. I’m an alchoholic. I just don’t drink. 3 years sober now. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:47:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Choice that results in a disease.
Like shooting yourself in the leg. Or banging a 2 dollar hooker without a condom. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:47:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It begins as a choice...it's self inflicted. Yep, that cold beer after a hard day of work, then 2, then 3, then 6, then 18. Some people have a special gene that makes them susceptible. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:48:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Disease my ass. If you are a drunk, a druggie, or a fatty you decided to drink it, smoke it, inject it, sniff it, pop it or eat it etc and you can dig deep and decide to stop doing those things. You may need support, treatment etc but that does not make it a disease.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:48:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s absolutely true. Once an alchoholic, you’re always an alchoholic. It’s a brain thing. I’m an alchoholic. I just don’t drink. 3 years sober now. Did you die when you stopped drinking? No, of course not. That's the point I'm arguing. You got sober, it was a choice, you are still alive. BTW congrats on 3 years. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:53:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A chosen disease. Yep. Like a lot of others. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:55:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you die when you stopped drinking? No, of course not. That's the point I'm arguing. You got sober, it was a choice, you are still alive. BTW congrats on 3 years. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s absolutely true. Once an alchoholic, you’re always an alchoholic. It’s a brain thing. I’m an alchoholic. I just don’t drink. 3 years sober now. Did you die when you stopped drinking? No, of course not. That's the point I'm arguing. You got sober, it was a choice, you are still alive. BTW congrats on 3 years. It was a choice to get 10 days of inpatient hospitalization/detox. I would have died if I just stopped without constant medical detox. They checked my vitals every 2 hours to make sure I didn’t. It’s a hell nobody can understand unless they’ve lived it. The heroin guys were out in 3 days. But the alchoholic and benzodiazepines addicts were watched like a fucking hawk because stopping can/will kill them. I post about my experience so those reading know there is a way out! But you ain’t gonna get out on your own. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:56:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Well I mean it's a choice to do anything. Once you do some things, or, some things enough they become an addiction. I think addiction is more like a disease as in it should be treated clinically not necessarily criminally. Some crimes committed due to being under the influence I am ok with having the book be thrown at them and don't feel addiction can be used as an out - this is dependent on situation and have to use judgement.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:57:43 PM EDT
[#11]
It's both.
Think of it like heart disease. Some people are just genetically disposed not to get it, that's great. But if they eat a shit ton of doughnuts for years on end, never touch a vegetable, and never walk further than the refrigerator, they will very likely end up with heart disease. Others will get it regardless of how healthy they live. Addiction is the same. Some have a genetic disposition to be more easily addicted, but anyone can make enough bad choices in a row to become an addict over time. Often this is accompanied or following traumatic events or complex trauma over time. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:58:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a choice to get 10 days of inpatient hospitalization/detox. I would have died if I just stopped without constant medical detox. They checked my vitals every 2 hours to make sure I didn’t. I post about my experience so those reading know there is a way out! But you ain’t gonna get out on your own. I applaud you for getting help and staying sober Sir. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:59:19 PM EDT
[#13]
All those who voted 'disease' are ignorant. EVERY addiction begins with a conscious choice to do something; smoking, drinking, illegal drugs, gambling, etc. You are the one responsible whereas actual medical diseases are not by choice, more or less. Weak people get addicted and that's the bottom line.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:00:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a choice until it becomes addiction, then it's a disease. Once brain chemistry gets modified the choice is no longer simple like having corn flakes or toast for breakfast, it's closer to choosing not to breathe, you can choose not to, but the addiction can far exceed the will to stay clean. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:00:43 PM EDT
[#15]
I worked with a good guy, who was hooked to another type of illegal hard drug. He was a person who was in/out of the pin for substance abuse and would get sober and then get out and be clean for awhile. He got his life straight, was able to make up with his kids, had an accountability partner. But at some point, he gave back in. I believe, he honestly tried to keep from doing it, but the drug's ability was more than he could withstand. He would lie to me and others about why he was calling in, and in the end when busted and lost his job, basically he told me it was like the "high" you get was the addiction and you would do anything including lying to even your loved ones to keep up the addictive lifestyle.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:01:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Using drugs is a choice that can lead to addiction which may or may not be a disease.
Just like choosing to smoke can cause lung cancer. Either way, you brought it on yourself. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:02:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a disease. If you know anyone personally impacted by addiction, you would realize this quickly. Addiction doesn't only apply to booze or drugs by the way. That's a common misconception. I have a cousin who’s a heroin addict. Whenever she asks me for $50 I give her $100. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:02:04 PM EDT
[#18]
It’s a choice that turns into a disease.
If you don’t shoot up, don’t drink that beer or first beer, don’t smoke that first cigarette you don’t end up addicted. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:02:49 PM EDT
[#19]
I think the changes that take place in your brain that cause the addiction fit the definition of a disease. Obviously bad choices led to the addiction. For some people and/or certain substances it doesn’t take much to lead to addiction.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:03:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People don’t think the Lymbic system be like it is, but it do. @hkh I had to google that and my curiosity for understanding my brain intensifies. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:05:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Self inflicted disorder. Disease implies natural or purely biological occurrence. Disorders can absolutely be caused by human action and be perpetrated by biological need.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:06:16 PM EDT
[#22]
I study and have published extensively in this field. It is a choice turned into a disease. Some may be predisposed to addiction, but it still requires the choice of engaging in that behavior.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:06:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All those who voted 'disease' are ignorant. EVERY addiction begins with a conscious choice to do something; smoking, drinking, illegal drugs, gambling, etc. You are the one responsible whereas actual medical diseases are not by choice, more or less. Weak people get addicted and that's the bottom line. 
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:07:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I applaud you for getting help and staying sober Sir. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It was a choice to get 10 days of inpatient hospitalization/detox. I would have died if I just stopped without constant medical detox. They checked my vitals every 2 hours to make sure I didn’t. I post about my experience so those reading know there is a way out! But you ain’t gonna get out on your own. I applaud you for getting help and staying sober Sir. It’s a fucking trap. A trap that once in there is no way out. Not by yourself there isn’t. Not without medical doctor surpervised care. They can wean you off it (with benzodiazepines btw, same action on the brain). It’s a fucking trap, a deadly trap and once in it you see no way out. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:07:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a disease. If you know anyone personally impacted by addiction, you would realize this quickly. Addiction doesn't only apply to booze or drugs by the way. That's a common misconception. I hear stuff like this, but then I then I know that I'm probably considered an alcoholic, but I choose not to drink. I don't have to do anything to support that choice, I just do. Is obesity a disease? Because that's a choice based issue too. You can choose not to eat crap, and to exercise and be active. But an you choose not to have diabetes? Or cancer? Or any disease once you have it? You can take medications, or get surgery, etc... to deal with diseases. Or is it more like a disease like cancer in that you can be in "remission" from your addiction? But, again, that brings you back to the choice issue, you have to actively choose that remission. I think most addictions are choices. The damage from those choices can be akin to disease, but it's still a choice at it's heart. Not being able to make the right choice just boils down to weakness, and weakness isn't a disease, as damaging as it is. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:07:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a choice that turns into a disease. If you don't shoot up, don't drink that beer or first beer, don't smoke that first cigarette you don't end up addicted. You are missing a whole host of behavioral addictions which are innocently and easily entered into, especially if circumstances are present such as complex trauma. (Gambling, sex, food, etc.) These are every bit as devastating to an addict as alcohol, but I've yet to find someone who can just decide not to eat and still live. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:07:47 PM EDT
[#27]
It is a choice and usually combined with hanging out with like minded people.
So you hang out with drunks and drug addicts and develop their habits. Life style and choice. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:07:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a cousin who's a heroin addict. Whenever she asks me for $50 I give her $100. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's a disease. If you know anyone personally impacted by addiction, you would realize this quickly. Addiction doesn't only apply to booze or drugs by the way. That's a common misconception. I have a cousin who's a heroin addict. Whenever she asks me for $50 I give her $100. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:10:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @hkh I had to google that and my curiosity for understanding my brain intensifies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: People don’t think the Lymbic system be like it is, but it do. @hkh I had to google that and my curiosity for understanding my brain intensifies. Believe it or not South Park explains it perfectly in Canadian devil episode. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:10:26 PM EDT
[#30]
My wife and I argue about this all the time. 1 thing we both agree on, the addiction business has made us more money than we thought we would ever see. I see a lot of good her company has done, I love success stories BUT man the amount who go through the programs over and over is CRAZY.
I feel bad for people who let themselves get to the point of addiction. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:11:37 PM EDT
[#31]
A choice is made at some point. Sory of like people that cheat on their spouse. They made a choice at some point. You're not gonna turn it around mid beej unless you're forgetting Sarah Marshall. The choice was made before that, and the rest is human nature. There are the occasional people who do absolutely have addictive tendencies, but again, a choice was made somewhere for x addiction or y addiction.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:13:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hear stuff like this, but then I then I know that I'm probably considered an alcoholic, but I choose not to drink. I don't have to do anything to support that choice, I just do. Is obesity a disease? Because that's a choice based issue too. You can choose not to eat crap, and to exercise and be active. But an you choose not to have diabetes? Or cancer? Or any disease once you have it? You can take medications, or get surgery, etc... to deal with diseases. Or is it more like a disease like cancer in that you can be in "remission" from your addiction? But, again, that brings you back to the choice issue, you have to actively choose that remission. I think most addictions are choices. The damage from those choices can be akin to disease, but it's still a choice at it's heart. Not being able to make the right choice just boils down to weakness, and weakness isn't a disease, as damaging as it is. Addiction is a brain disease stemming from an overabundance of certain brain chemicals causing the brain to shut off receptors for those chemicals (dopamine being the commonly talked about chemical). You can become addicted to food. You can call it a choice, but who's choice was it? When you see obese toddlers walking around, they are food addicts, no doubt, but it's through no fault of their own. Then you see a seriously obese person in media and everyone makes fun of them because they are weak idiots who obviously can't control their impulses. I don't know a single addict who grew up in an emotionally healthy family, underwent no trauma, and just somehow made some bad choices that ended up in addiction. And I know a shit-ton of addicts. So yeah, there is a factor of choice. However, I think we place blame where we should be placing compassion. No one wakes up one day and decides to become an alcoholic, sex or food addict (or, more commonly, a combination of things... I've also yet to meet an addict only addicted to one thing). |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:15:47 PM EDT
[#33]
 Randy marsh - I have a disease |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:16:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So there's no such thing as alcoholism because you can't drink? I am not sure how you sussed that one out. Alcoholism exists because people to chose to drink and then do so in a pattern. Once you need it even if it is one drink a week, month or year you have chosen to develop alcoholism. My choosing not to partake has nothing to do with that. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:16:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A choice is made at some point. Sory of like people that cheat on their spouse. They made a choice at some point. You're not gonna turn it around mid beej unless you're forgetting Sarah Marshall. The choice was made before that, and the rest is human nature. There are the occasional people who do absolutely have addictive tendencies, but again, a choice was made somewhere for x addiction or y addiction. Yes, a choice is made at a point. But I'd bargain that quite often a person simply lacks the ability to choose differently (see my fat toddler post above). And addicts are most assuredly responsible and should be held accountable for the destruction they wreak upon others. But if we want them to heal and recover, they will need fellowship and compassion. Without these, you might as well just give them another drink/needle/doughnut, etc. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:19:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Let’s ignore medicine & science—diagnosing by internet pole is bestest... because the interweb gurus know more than the conspiracy-minded doctors promoting disease for profit—I’m looking at you—Fauci!
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:24:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So your enabling her to continue? Maybe next time offer to buy her what she needs instead of just giving money. While im compassionate for people with addictions, i dont want to be someone who enables someone else's demise either. I keep hoping the by doubling what she’s asking for she’ll buy enough to solve the problem permanently. I should probably add that before I took her children away and got them to a safer house, she was letting men rape her 6 year old daughter and beat her 2 year old daughter. So I have zero sympathy for her and hope she OD’s |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:27:37 PM EDT
[#38]
This post shows how indoctrinated GD is.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:29:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a disease. If you know anyone personally impacted by addiction, you would realize this quickly. Addiction doesn't only apply to booze or drugs by the way. That's a common misconception. I do know 2 people affected. Both chose to start down that road. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:30:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Disease, but you sort of have to kick it off yourself. But most diseases are like that, even cancer.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:33:21 PM EDT
[#41]
does it matter? result is the same
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:34:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Can you catch it from another person?
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:36:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both. This |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:36:18 PM EDT
[#44]
I have an addictive personality.
I choose which addictions to feed. Today it was the guitar. 
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:37:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Addiction is a trap, and not just for the weak.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:38:59 PM EDT
[#46]
I think "Disease" is not a good choice of words.
Addiction does screw with your brain, and take control of your actions. All the while convincing you its good and necessary! |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:39:05 PM EDT
[#47]
It's a choice that leads to a disease, whether it's food, gambling, drugs or anything else.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:40:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll remind you that stopping alchohol or benzodiazepines can and will kill a person. The only ones that can. There is no choice. Use or die. Umm...no. One can safely withdraw from alcohol with medical supervision. Benzodiaepine withdrawal can cause seizures, but again, can be safely done. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:40:46 PM EDT
[#49]
I suffer from A disease that tells me I don't have A disease.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:43:43 PM EDT
[#50]
At work so I can't read the thread, I think it's a choice that leads to a disease or illness. Some people are predisposed to get said illness while others can be exposed yet not contract it. But it also depends on the drugs chosen. Some are much more physically addicting which is the real problem, that's what leads to crimes committed to get "right" for the day or a few hours
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