I've seen lots of .22 talk and other boneheaded nonsense lately, and I wonder how many of the 7 or 8 million new gun owners will be taken in by stupid things they see online.

Excluding military, because that's a completely different situation with it's own complications and ROI.
I'm referring to folks who operate in the civilian world, including cops because they aren't military, and aren't trying to achieve military objectives. ( even if some think they are)
If you haven't been forced to shoot someone in a civilian context, with civilian equipment, subject to the rules regular citizens are expected to follow, you don't have any direct experience to draw from and your opinions are theories.
Actual "operators" who become instructors are by far the best resource for competent training, but having the biggest tool box doesn't necessarily make you the best mechanic.
So I'm placing a high premium on people who have used a gun in the context of a home invasion, CCW defense situations, undercover cops, and in response to shooter/armed bad guy scenarios (stopping active shooters, Texas church shooter take down, stopping gas station robberies,etc)  

The overwhelming majority of gun owners haven't shot anyone, and that's a good thing.
But it means you don't really know if you can stop a bad guy with a flurry of super accurate face shots from your 10/22  or blast a baseball sized holes in their chest with your .45.
So much of what happens in a real shooting is out of your control, and stress response can only be re-created in training to a certain extent, not to mention the extremely dangerous post shooting fall out you'll have to deal with.
For context, I've owned an accordion for over 20 years, but I don't play it or have any meaningful grasp of how it works.
If I started giving music lessons backed by my decades of accordion owner ship, most people would write me off as an idiot.

Whats actually going to happen is you'll have to fight involuntary physiological responses that cause you to be around 1/10th as good as your are on the range.
You'll be on the on the X or behind the "power curve" as some call it, meaning you'll start you assessment and decision process after your attacker(s) has already made up their mind.
If you survive the results won't look cool, or glamorous. One of my favorite examples is a video of a gas station gun fight where both shooters are hit and slipping in their own blood while point shooting through bags of potato chips.
Its good to remember things like that so we don't lose track of how un-glamorous real violence is.

Unfortunately, sometimes real violence is necessary. Plan, be prepared, and only listen to people who've experienced it themselves.
You aren't going to find many people who have survived a gun fight who advocate for the kinds of theories cooked up by guys who haven't.

If you haven’t stabbed someone with a knife. Shut up about knives.

You used all the important words.   You must be a real civilian operator.

Thenk yew fer yer srvce

User name checks out

99% on here haven't touched a female....


but here we are.

Did someone say "Bloviating?"

Can you play the intro to Smoke On The Water with your accordion?

So OP how many "civilian" notches on your belt?

I don't listen to anyone that has shot less than 20 people.

Here's a novel idea.  Don't appeal to expertise to make arguments.  Arguments either stand on their own or they don't.  Experience level be dammed.

Nailed it.

I get all my training from victims of home invasions.

Gatekeeping at its finest.

Go back to playing your accordion Urkel

I have killed more people than smallpox.

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TL;DR

OP hasn't published peer reviewed articles, so he should be writing anything.....did I do it right?

finally we get to the good shit!!!

LOL, in on 1

User name, join date, nonsense filled post, this has potential.

I only listen to people with a body count greater than 100. It's your funeral, pal

You used the words “super accurate and 10/22” in the same sentence that automatically makes your whole argument void.

I could kill a home intruder with that accordion, I bet.

In on 1.

Thank you for your service ??????????

Are you through? just making sure. Wouldn't have wanted you to have forgotten something and wished you'd added it later. Cause when i hit the enter key this entire thing will be like Tara plantation with Rhett, Scarlet, Melanie, and Ashley all drinking mint juleps on the veranda.

Yeah, if you're gonna get up on a soapbox and preach, you might want to re-think your user name.

Username checks out

Username checks out.

My BIL was put in a situation to shoot someone not too long ago. His wife was behind the guy so he aimed low and intentionally shot him in the balls. He dropped like a rock. One shot, one emasculated tattoo covered body building bone-fide two-strike violent felon gang-banger on the ground with a shattered femur missing a testicle.

You don’t have to be a tier 1 super SEAL Green Beret Ranger to shoot a motherfucker in the balls.

Someone tell most of the big name trainers that they are no longer allowed to espouse opinions then.

We will all bow down to the rightful king of self defense, Paul Harrell. Somewhat unironically because he is actually great.

Who are these people ?

By this reasoning I’m a home defense expert because I survived two home invasions in my life.  Yes TWO...

If you don't train with actual human targets just shut up.

While I haven't had an experience when I have had to shoot a human, I have had the experience of shooting a Grizzly at 31 paces, a mountain lion at halitosis distance, and lots of other game. When Young, I did have "buck fervor". But now, I'm cold as ice. I figure if I can face off with a Griz at 31 paces, I probably will do just fine in a human-human fire fight. My mind has already been made that I'm perfectly willing to take another life to save someone I love, or my own. I'm an old guy, so IDGAF. Bring it.

fired shots at Communist's in Korea. The DMZ, they shot first, we resounded.  Does that count? Cause there are a Huge number of Soldiers under that description. Although, None of us exist officially.

I don't know what it's called, I just know the sound it makes when it takes a man's life.

So what is the ratio of trained and competent people who have shot someone in a self defense situation vs those who just happened to be carrying?

Personally I'd prefer to learn from someone who maybe didn't shoot anyone but who is a competent shooter, well trained and knowledgeable about ballistics vs someone who lucked into getting a shot off from their yeet cannon into the local methbilly trying to steal copper wiring.

You should probably get your advice from gang bangers.

I guess since nobody has any bullets bad language has some threatening qualities.

Or....


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If you shot a burglar, and they fled the scene bleeding, but didn't get"legit" medical help out of fear of being turned in, does it still count as a shooting?

If you've never been shot in the balls, how do you know it's bad?

Just blade at 45 and start blastin

One day many years ago my mother and sister went on a walk around the neighborhood. It was a crisp fall evening in October. On their walk a small kitten followed them around and ended up at our house, they were worried it was too cold and the kitten would freeze overnight. I took an old sweater and put it in the bed of my pickup truck for the kitten to snuggle up in. The next morning my dad woke me up and said there was a dead baby raccon in the garage that he smashed with a shovel and told me to take care of it. And that is the story of Trevor the kitten.

I can get a good look at a butcher's ass by sticking my bull up his ass but I'd rather take a T Bone's word for it.



 Or something.

If you haven't played in the NFL, you aren't allowed to talk about football

Pause while he ops...

I will vote this thread troll.

Naw, it's really entertaining to watch all the theory and conjecture

In on 1 or pwn 2.