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Posted: 1/24/2021 12:38:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure if serious so I plead the fifth. Mostly serious but almost completely ignorant on the subject/industry. Just going from what I've heard other random people say. Fifth works. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 12:40:47 PM EDT
[#2]
OP is 100% correct I have orders sitting on my shipping dock several days waiting on an LTL carrier to pick them up. I had one terminal manager tell me they wouldn't pick up any more freight until they moved out what had piled up on their docks. Not enough drivers, not enough empty trailers, the whole shipping industry is screwed at the moment.
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Posted: 1/24/2021 12:50:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Are there any US companies reaping the benefits of unlimited cargo coming in and jacking up their rates? For example, you mentioned CSX. Are they running more trains and charging a higher premium to move things? Or is it just business as usual using what they have and your stuff will get there when it gets there?
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Posted: 1/24/2021 1:06:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are there any US companies reaping the benefits of unlimited cargo coming in and jacking up their rates? For example, you mentioned CSX. Are they running more trains and charging a higher premium to move things? Or is it just business as usual using what they have and your stuff will get there when it gets there? The freight forwarders aren't going to see what the railroads charge for containers. The ocean carriers have contracts direct with the railroads. The railroads are pretty much at capacity. Lack of empty rail cars is a problem during normal peak seasons in previous years. This amount of cargo is unprecedented. If what freight forwarders charge goes up, it’s because the freight rates have gone up, both ocean and air. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 1:13:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The freight forwarders aren't going to see what the railroads charge for containers. The ocean carriers have contracts direct with the railroads. The railroads are pretty much at capacity. Lack of empty rail cars is a problem during normal peak seasons in previous years. This amount of cargo is unprecedented. If what freight forwarders charge goes up, it's because the freight rates have gone up, both ocean and air. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are there any US companies reaping the benefits of unlimited cargo coming in and jacking up their rates? For example, you mentioned CSX. Are they running more trains and charging a higher premium to move things? Or is it just business as usual using what they have and your stuff will get there when it gets there? The freight forwarders aren't going to see what the railroads charge for containers. The ocean carriers have contracts direct with the railroads. The railroads are pretty much at capacity. Lack of empty rail cars is a problem during normal peak seasons in previous years. This amount of cargo is unprecedented. If what freight forwarders charge goes up, it's because the freight rates have gone up, both ocean and air. Would those prices have been negotiated months ago or is that something that can change at each stage of shipping? I saw reference to a $3,000 premium. I would assume that means that freight rate was set awhile ago and will be delivered for that price but if someone wants it quicker they can pay to jump to the front of the line? |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 1:18:10 PM EDT
[#6]
What's it cost to get a 40 ft container from China to Savannah normally and what's it cost now?
We "expedite via west coast" a bit as our DC is on the east coast. It's obviously more expensive. What's the cost and time difference to go to Savannah vs Cali? |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 1:20:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would those prices have been negotiated months ago or is that something that can change at each stage of shipping? I saw reference to a $3,000 premium. I would assume that means that freight rate was set awhile ago and will be delivered for that price but if someone wants it quicker they can pay to jump to the front of the line? Only the really big players have contracts these days. If you want to move your stuff, you either pay or it doesn’t move. As simple as that. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 1:21:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would those prices have been negotiated months ago or is that something that can change at each stage of shipping? I saw reference to a $3,000 premium. I would assume that means that freight rate was set awhile ago and will be delivered for that price but if someone wants it quicker they can pay to jump to the front of the line? Prices could have been negotiated months ago, yes, but is very little obligation to actually move cargo at those prices. Shipping truly functions according to supply and demand. Cargo moves at contract prices if those prices are in line with demand. When demand surges, the "spot" market increases and freight moves at that rate. You might only get 25% of your "contract volume" moved at contract rates. The rest either sits there until space opens up or moves at higher premium rates. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 1:21:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP is 100% correct I have orders sitting on my shipping dock several days waiting on an LTL carrier to pick them up. I had one terminal manager tell me they wouldn't pick up any more freight until they moved out what had piled up on their docks. Not enough drivers, not enough empty trailers, the whole shipping industry is screwed at the moment. I drive for a large worldwide truck rental company, and we are at 100+% rental capacity right now. We have more customers waiting for trucks than vehicles available, and transfer drivers like me have all the work we can handle. It's still an easier gig than being a trashy freight-hauler, any day of the week. 
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Posted: 1/24/2021 1:23:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's it cost to get a 40 ft container from China to Savannah normally and what's it cost now? We "expedite via west coast" a bit as our DC is on the east coast. It's obviously more expensive. What's the cost and time difference to go to Savannah vs Cali? Typically rates are between $2200 - $3000 depending on the time of year. Right now, the "standard" rates are $5k - $6k and there is no guarantee your cargo actually moves. If you want it to move, there are Premium services which add on another $2k - $3k. So all-water transit from China to Savannah is going to cost you anywhere from $8k - $10k right now if you want your freight to actually move timely and not sit 3 - 5 weeks in China. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 1:23:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's it cost to get a 40 ft container from China to Savannah normally and what's it cost now? We "expedite via west coast" a bit as our DC is on the east coast. It's obviously more expensive. What's the cost and time difference to go to Savannah vs Cali? A year ago it was probably about $4K. Now it’s at least $7K without all the additional surcharges. Moving it via ship to a port as close to you as possible is always the best bet, given the truck and rail situation from the west coast. I have plenty of truckers who want a move to be booked two weeks in advance. And that’s just to move it from the port of LA to a local warehouse. Big lack of truckers right now. Trucking something cross country is stupid right now unless you can’t avoid it. From China to Savannah is 3-4 weeks depending on specific port rotation, under normal circumstances. Given the current situation, add another week or two as a cushion. Don’t mess with LA right now. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 1:38:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: YRC’s business model hasn’t been viable for a long, long time. They now only exist to service a giant pension fund (via a massive gov bailout). Man we have a couple suppliers that love to use YRC. It is always fun watching the tracking. Trailer loading, trailer closing, etc. It seems like it take 3-4 days to get freight to us that would only take 1-2 from other shipping companies. I guess its cheap though. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 2:46:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Our FF uses YRC a lot for domestic stuff. They actually do a good job for us. Although most of our LTL transit times are no more then 3 days, so there isn't a lot of time to get the loads all fucked up.
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Posted: 1/24/2021 2:52:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our FF uses YRC a lot for domestic stuff. They actually do a good job for us. Although most of our LTL transit times are no more then 3 days, so there isn't a lot of time to get the loads all fucked up. Yeah, when you're dealing with these large LTL carriers it's impossible to generalize them too much. They have huge service areas and do a better job in some parts of the country as opposed to others. AAA Cooper, SEFL, Estes are also some of the more reliable LTL we work with. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 3:02:48 PM EDT
[#15]
I drive P&D and LTL and things have been screwed up since March, we have put caps on must customers on how much they can ship. Like others have said, not enough drivers, trucks, sort capacity. Some of are sort facilities looked like warehouses at times from the overwhelming amount of freight we've had.
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Posted: 1/24/2021 3:37:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, when you're dealing with these large LTL carriers it's impossible to generalize them too much. They have huge service areas and do a better job in some parts of the country as opposed to others. AAA Cooper, SEFL, Estes are also some of the more reliable LTL we work with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Our FF uses YRC a lot for domestic stuff. They actually do a good job for us. Although most of our LTL transit times are no more then 3 days, so there isn't a lot of time to get the loads all fucked up. Yeah, when you're dealing with these large LTL carriers it's impossible to generalize them too much. They have huge service areas and do a better job in some parts of the country as opposed to others. AAA Cooper, SEFL, Estes are also some of the more reliable LTL we work with. Dayton Freight is good in the Midwest. I love Midwest Express but they are more for stuff out of Chicago to other Midwestern points. Forward Air is either good or sucks. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 3:41:24 PM EDT
[#17]
I thought part of the Panama canal expansion project was to shift some of the demand from Long Beach to Houston. Doesn't seem like that really happened.
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Posted: 1/24/2021 5:04:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe not labeled properly.. Odds are good it will show up if there is something identifying where it at least came from, will just take a while since it could be at any terminal in the US and is probably with a bunch of other stuff that has to be "found" as well.  Which is where we learn the term "frustrated cargo" which really isn't a strong enough phrase.
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:17:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Imagine for us what the California ports and border crossings would be like right now if 87% of GD had their way and California was no longer a state in the USA, but it's own country.
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:27:46 PM EDT
[#20]
I've had multiple international shipments (Austrialia, China) arrive in record time here in the past few weeks.
Are smaller packages shipped air mail? |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:29:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which is where we learn the term "frustrated cargo" which really isn't a strong enough phrase. This post just triggered my PTSD caused from the RUC line and frustrated cargo holding area at TQ in Iraq.
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:33:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This post just triggered my PTSD caused from the RUC line and frustrated cargo holding area at TQ in Iraq. You should have seen the frustrated cargo holding area at Arifjan about 6 months after the invasion that the 19th MMC was "managing". The Major was nearly in tears after I was done with him. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:40:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are they running more trains and charging a higher premium to move things? Or is it just business as usual using what they have and your stuff will get there when it gets there? Most rates for expedited are set annually, so no, RRs are not scalping the LTL companies. RRs are moving everything they can. COVID is the cause for the port slowdown and reduced capacity. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:46:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP is 100% correct I have orders sitting on my shipping dock several days waiting on an LTL carrier to pick them up. I had one terminal manager tell me they wouldn't pick up any more freight until they moved out what had piled up on their docks. Not enough drivers, not enough empty trailers, the whole shipping industry is screwed at the moment. @JT_26 That's weird. I'm a driver for probably the biggest LTL in the world and we have a very noticeable drop in freight for January and looking like February as well. I know drivers and dockworkers at other LTLs that are seeing reduced hours, cut runs and even furloughs going back to November. I'm talking XPO, Old Dominion, Oak Harbor and YRC. Both Nevada and California locations that I'm aware of. What I can't account for is the hiring spree my employer is on for both dock workers and drivers. We are filling the roster and then not working the new guys. Boggles my mind. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:53:44 PM EDT
[#25]
I guess that happens when you live in a country that runs 90 billion dollar monthly trade deficits
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:01:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @JT_26 That's weird. I'm a driver for probably the biggest LTL in the world and we have a very noticeable drop in freight for January and looking like February as well. I know drivers and dockworkers at other LTLs that are seeing reduced hours, cut runs and even furloughs going back to November. I'm talking XPO, Old Dominion, Oak Harbor and YRC. Both Nevada and California locations that I'm aware of. What I can't account for is the hiring spree my employer is on for both dock workers and drivers. We are filling the roster and then not working the new guys. Boggles my mind. That’s part of the reason why I bailed on FedEx Freight. The other was that old road dogs like me with millions of incident-free miles and 2.5 decades of experience don’t fare well in places where the ex-janitor with a week more seniority than me can tell me what to do. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:05:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What’s the longest time it’s taken for a container to go start to finish. We scheduled a container end of August. It didn't arrive to us to fill until early November. It just arrived in Australia a week ago. Crazy. Now we have 4 containers of raw materal coming from the Indonesia that are 3 weeks late. We will have to shut down in 2 weeks if it doesn't arrive. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:07:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Why did Trump do this and why is orange man so bad? Hail glorious president Joe and chairman Xi!
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:11:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All the Green Belts and Six Sigmas and Lean Certified in the world can't do anything when there is simply no ship and no container and no airplane to use to transport your cargo. A lot of people are finding this out.  "Lean" PSR BS has fucked the UPRRs ability to handle upswings in traffic. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:22:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Jeeze, this is a whole 'nuther world. I had to google what "DC" stood for, since I'd figured out on my own you didn't mean Direct Current like I use it.
I know that for all the consumer shit I order I've adapted well with my long-held philosophy of "always keep a spare on the shelf." Works well for minor personal stuff at least. As for the minor delays I get, it just makes mail call more of an adventure of "what showed up?"  Lot easier to deal with on a personal level, can't imagine trying to handle business shit in this environment. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:28:36 PM EDT
[#31]
this thread is interesting
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:57:36 PM EDT
[#32]
How does the changes to rail affect this? Norfolk Southern's Top 21 strategy meant less and longer trains. Everyone has geared down due to Covid.
This photo is apparently from Long Beach (stolen from Twitter)  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:58:44 PM EDT
[#33]
What is the least shitty LTL company?
Is freightwise worth it, or not? |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:27:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this thread is interesting It's fascinating for logistics nerds like me where there is significant Venn overlap between civilian and military logistics, but not entirely in that the military has much of their own inherent logistics capabilities and agencies. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:29:36 PM EDT
[#35]
UPS LTL rep just emailed me a letter. "we are selling UPS Freight to TFI International, a North American transportation and logistics company based in Montreal, Quebec."
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:34:41 PM EDT
[#36]
As has been said (besides strikes and 'covid issues'), this can be summed up in four little words: "Potential Chinese Tariff Removal".
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:35:31 PM EDT
[#37]
My company actually chartered a jet to get parts from Chyna. Shits all fucked up right now. Glad I don't work in supply chain.
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:42:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does the changes to rail affect this? Norfolk Southern's Top 21 strategy meant less and longer trains. Everyone has geared down due to Covid. Contrary to what ever fudged metrics that are out there, 'longer trains' are not all that efficient. The carriers aim is of course to reduce labor costs by getting two trains worth of goods transported by one crew. Well....many of these super trains (eg 15000+ ft) are taking 2 crews to get them over segments of territory that one crew used to get a 7500ft train over without needing to be recrewed. So the super train is not really saving on labor costs AND they tend to reduce overall train velocity. The carriers are super focused on the metric of reducing "dwell time", time that cars sit in rail yards waiting to be taken to their final destination. Field management is heavily bonused on that metric, so they do everything possible to #1 keep cars from coming IN the yard, and #2 get the cars that are IN the yard out....all in an effort to not have increased "dwell time" The PROBLEM with that, is that they will store cars outside the yard so as not to start the dwell clock (newsflash, they're still dwelling) , or they'll throw cars that are currently dwelling in the yard on trains NOT headed to that cars final destination in an effort to get them out of the yard and stop the dwell clock, so the car ping pongs around the system. That does not help the customer at all. Bottom line is It's all bullshit I would love to see how much we're spending on knuckles, these giant trains are snapping knuckles like I've never seen, but that's what happens when you build/run trains based on an accounting book and not a physics book....you can only get away with fudging the answers on one of them.... There are numerous factors affecting the delays, but the bottom line is that trying to do more with less rarely works. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:53:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Biden will be along in a minute with a pen and EO to fix it.
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:55:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Maybe ship the empty containers back?
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:56:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most rates for expedited are set annually, so no, RRs are not scalping the LTL companies. RRs are moving everything they can. COVID is the cause for the port slowdown and reduced capacity. meh... UP COO Jim Vena pushed away this increase in traffic in SEPTEMBER because they would have an INITIAL increase in costs due to deadheading crews west to bring the increased traffic east. Vena was near the end of the time period he was given to reduce UP's operating ratio and thus get his 20 mil bonus, there was no way he was going to incur any costs that would effect that, national economic needs be damned. https://ajot.com/insights/full/ai-consultant-says-shippers-using-u.s-west-coast-ports-cant-book-rail-on-bnsf-and-up |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:56:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe ship the empty containers back? I'm getting the feeling that the ships just sitting around with a bunch of full containers on them are the ones that would normally take the empties back. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:57:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does the changes to rail affect this? Norfolk Southern's Top 21 strategy meant less and longer trains. Everyone has geared down due to Covid. This photo is apparently from Long Beach (stolen from Twitter) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/478547/Shipping_Queue_jpg-1796384.JPG This isn't a rail problem. It's a port-COVID problem and pent up demand to restock the DCs that were exhausted over the last 12 months. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 4:58:49 PM EDT
[#44]
So the TNT Holland driver told us to expect damaged freight as part of the normal business. Is this everywhere ? we told our suppliers to stop using them. They also appear to have the worse driver by miles. They have 3 times managed to get stuck in out gravel lot. They are the only drivers in 3 years to manage that feat of skill.
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Posted: 1/25/2021 5:03:11 PM EDT
[#45]
I actually see the stacks of containers daily in Newark/Elizabeth/port Newark. Lots of stuff staged but nowhere to go.
On a side note there’s a gang of tiny Asian women driving container chassis’s moving them around the port. They are a hoot to watch. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 5:08:03 PM EDT
[#46]
when you see too many customers being a problem, what does a capitalist do? It's been too long....
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Posted: 1/25/2021 5:21:34 PM EDT
[#47]
How do you compete with Expeditors? I only hear about them now and little about Panalpina and Kuehne & Nagle.
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Posted: 1/25/2021 5:36:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the TNT Holland driver told us to expect damaged freight as part of the normal business. Is this everywhere ? we told our suppliers to stop using them. They also appear to have the worse driver by miles. They have 3 times managed to get stuck in out gravel lot. They are the only drivers in 3 years to manage that feat of skill. TNT Holland is another old-world clown-shoes union linehaul outfit like YRC. They exist to provide union votes, dues, and other democrat money-laundering services, and maybe move a little freight. A quick story. ‘Vinnie’ is a local driver for TNT. He spends much of his time kinda-sorta doing his job, and the rest of the time hitting on waitresses at a local diner. Your freight is in the back of an unlocked, usually open, trailer, and the truck is running with the doors open the entire time it’s sitting in the lot. Vinnie has been fired 12 or 13 times for this egregious behavior, but the local union makes TNT hire him back, with back-pay for the time he was gone. He’s just one of the morons in charge of moving your freight anywhere with that company. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 6:11:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @JT_26 That's weird. I'm a driver for probably the biggest LTL in the world and we have a very noticeable drop in freight for January and looking like February as well. I know drivers and dockworkers at other LTLs that are seeing reduced hours, cut runs and even furloughs going back to November. I'm talking XPO, Old Dominion, Oak Harbor and YRC. Both Nevada and California locations that I'm aware of. What I can't account for is the hiring spree my employer is on for both dock workers and drivers. We are filling the roster and then not working the new guys. Boggles my mind. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OP is 100% correct I have orders sitting on my shipping dock several days waiting on an LTL carrier to pick them up. I had one terminal manager tell me they wouldn't pick up any more freight until they moved out what had piled up on their docks. Not enough drivers, not enough empty trailers, the whole shipping industry is screwed at the moment. @JT_26 That's weird. I'm a driver for probably the biggest LTL in the world and we have a very noticeable drop in freight for January and looking like February as well. I know drivers and dockworkers at other LTLs that are seeing reduced hours, cut runs and even furloughs going back to November. I'm talking XPO, Old Dominion, Oak Harbor and YRC. Both Nevada and California locations that I'm aware of. What I can't account for is the hiring spree my employer is on for both dock workers and drivers. We are filling the roster and then not working the new guys. Boggles my mind. Your best bet is with smaller regional freight lines. We have had good luck with Old Dominion, Southeastern. But honestly they all tear up freight some just do it less than the others. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 6:27:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Buy American?
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