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Posted: 5/21/2001 9:39:19 PM EDT
I hate guns with a lot of gimmicks. AR-15's with silly telescoping buttstocks, picatinny rails sprouting out all over, ridiculously short barrels that need huge inefficient flash hiders just to be legal, and titanium do-dads all over. Heck, even the forward assist is just extra junk to lug around, in my book. And I hate M1911A1's with compensators and extended front sights and extended ambidextrous safeties and extended slide stops and extended magazine releases and serrations on the front end of the slide and laser sights and titanium do-dads all over. I'm not on a SEAL team, and if I ever have to defend myself with a gun it will probably be against 1 or 2 scared-shitless losers and not an elite hit squad or an entire drug-crazed homocidal inner-city gang. I like a simple AR with a 20 inch lightweight barrel and either A1 style sights or a flattop. I like .45 autos like they made them back in the 1920's, and S&W revolvers from back in the 1950's. Am I all alone?
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:43:14 PM EDT
Yep.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:46:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:49:25 PM EDT
dadgum Fuzz ...... you may be a borderline anti ! I suggest intense range therapy .... maybe a new gun purchase. [BD] BTW ... yes .... very alone.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:52:46 PM EDT
The telestock is not silly IMO. I do prfer the A2 but on my preban I have the Colt 4 Position. On a 1911 I like a magwell, frontstrap checkering and an extended safety. Ambi safeties are weaker than regular ones. Extended slide stops cause a lot of malfunctions too. Rails on ARs provide a stable platform where to mount sights and lights etc.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:54:01 PM EDT
I invite you to come to a IDPA match sometime and find out what all those ' Gimmicky ' comps and extended mag releases are for!! Guns are Like harley's everyone wants to ad something to costomise theres and make it difrent
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:56:18 PM EDT
Here is the beautiful part-----They make'em in all different configurations to make everyone happy. Some people are happy with one SP1 type 20" rifle, some people want one like that and one of all the others also. I think you would love some of my guns, then again you would absolutely hate some of them too.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:00:07 PM EDT
fuzz: yeah! not everyone is built to perfect specs like you.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 10:02:23 PM EDT
different strokes for different folks a few doo-dads are ok if they are useful, but it can become easy to over do it. theres something great about the basic no frills design, but theres also something fun, new and different and even a bit SEXY with the high tech add on's
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 4:06:32 AM EDT
Garry, When was the last time you saw a comp at an IDPA match? Pretty close to never, maybe. Not legal in IDPA. Never have been. Norm
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 4:28:10 AM EDT
There's "gimmicky" and then there's "different". Not all changes to a firearm's original design increase complexity. For example, beveling the mouth of the magazine well on a 1911 makes it a bit easier to load without adding any extra parts or making the pistol less rugged or idiot-proof. The same goes for replacing the G.I. grip safety and hammer with a beavertail grip safety and rowel hammer. And if you really value simplicity, why are you shooting a 1911 at all? Get a Glock. Or a single action revolver. Or a baseball bat.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 4:58:13 AM EDT
There is a term for that kind of disease: Too Much Sh*t Syndrome, or TMSS for short. If your gun has more than one optical sight (such as a red dot and a laser) you have TOO MUCH SH*T hanging off your gun. An M4 shouldnt weigh 20lbs cause of all the doodads you have hanging off that rail system. Kharn
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 5:03:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 5:06:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 5:09:46 AM EDT
I shoot uspsa, so my opinion is of little importance.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 5:28:47 AM EDT
The idea of "who needs this or that?" is one of the reasons the Soviet Union and communism on a whole have failed because it robs people of their individuality. I am not suggesting that you are a communist, but I think individuality is good. Besides, a lot of those gimmicky add-ons or customizations sometimes do increase the functionality of the product. I for example am left handed and an ambi-safety on a 1911 vastly increases the usability of the gun for me. Besides, the antis apply that same sort of logic..."Who needs a mag that can hold 30 rounds?" or "Who needs a semi-automatic rifle?"
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 5:37:13 AM EDT
I don't know if you're alone, but I sure ain't with you. I love the compactness and versatility that a telestock gives an AR. I like the Rail Accessory System and I like the forward pistol grip that goes on it. It doesn't matter if I NEVER use the thing for serious business, I just like them. I like ambi safeties on my 1911s and I like forward slide serrations for unloading the gun---it allows me to eject the round into my palm rather than chase it around the floor. I don't need laser sights, and frankly I think they are a waste of time, but I don't "hate" them either.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 5:37:18 AM EDT
I typically like simplicity. Less to go wrong, lighter, stronger, more reliable. That said, we had a 9 year old at the shoot Saturday. I went to have him shoot my AR-15 and the stock was too long. I grabbed a buddy's preban with a collapsible stock and adjusted it to fit the boy. He had a great time. Small women have the same problem. A collapsible stock makes a LOT of sense for smaller people.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 6:10:09 AM EDT
Opinions....everyone's got one. I favor simplicity, but enjoy seeing a "pimped up" rifle every now and then.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 7:00:29 AM EDT
If you think telescoping stocks are bad (I don't), take a look at the NON-telescoping stocks that LOOK like tele-scoping stocks for that authentic military look. OOOH! And unless you can shoot your weapon effectively with iron sights, anything else stuck on it is worthless weight once murphy's law kicks you in the ass.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 7:35:34 AM EDT
Whatever floats your boat I guess. I think these things ad character to a firearm whether it be 1911, AR, etc, etc. I think the customized 1911's look good as do the 20's and 30's models have "character" that nothing else can compare to. These options are out there for people to make one fit their personality, whatever it may be. What I hate is someone who takes that old 1911 and puts the new go goodies on it....eewww!
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 7:54:56 AM EDT
I like .45 autos like they made them back in the 1920's, and S&W revolvers from back in the 1950's.
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What year of car do you drive?
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 7:56:31 AM EDT
I like all the extras. I don't think I have any guns that I haven't dressed up. I have over $1400 invested in a Glock 21. Over $2000 invester in an AR 15. $1500 invested in a mini 14. $1000 invested in a Remington 870 and so on and so forth. I have over 50 guns and all of them have gimmicks on them. Most of the gimmicks on them aren't for anything other than looks. And another thing, collecting guns and modifing them is something I do for a hobie because I enjoy it not because its a necesity.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:41:48 AM EDT
Personally, I like weapons that has all the add-ons. I prefer to have possessions that are high-tech and futuristic in my life. Especially, high-tech devices you could mount or install and increase an automobile or weapon's function. Options you can add-on a weapon like laser sights, mounted flashlights, optics, extra mag holder, etc. To a point, the more the merrier for me! Most of the time I'd rather have all the bells and whistles that are legal to supplement for most of my weapons than have simplicity because I happen to like the most modern look. Heck, if somebody made a miniature GPS or walkie talkie for the AR rifle, I may even contemplate adding them on too! Ha ha j/k [:D] [b]-RoadDog[/b] [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/scooby1.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:51:13 AM EDT
I don't know if these are gimmicks. I own a few firearms with from plain-Jane to a few extra's. I feel the same as someone else posted "to each his own" ( I couldn't make the quote thing work for me) That is the beauty of an AR-15 platform, you can customize it to meet your needs, whatever they may be.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:55:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2001 8:59:00 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
IF you guys want to see a gimmick look right here [url]www.specialweaponsllc.com [/url] This shit is a GIMMICK Don't buy it Its fun to look at this junk, but extended viewing may cause dizziness and you may even[puke] [puke]Edited to activate url.....and to clean up the smilie vomit! [:D]
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:58:20 AM EDT
I don't think I would buy a gun that I couldn't "hot-rod". I think I have close to $5000 in my AR / M4 alone... Those SOPMOD kits aren't cheap.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 9:26:01 AM EDT
I don't get into all the rails and lights and laser sights and such but I do like to dress my ARs up a bit. I generally prefer to add the equiv. of what the military uses on their weapons if at all possible.. I like strong, functional add ons that offer a tactical improvement. Hogue grips Mag-Pulls ARMS mounts and Sights Trij/Aimpoint sites Telestocks I have no need for the rest of the gadgetry although I am debating on a forward pistol grip for my M4.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 9:54:03 AM EDT
I don't do anything to my weapons for looks. Everything I do is to increase economy of motion---->SPEED. Hunter out...
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 10:00:41 AM EDT
KISS. It seems everything I add to a gun just makes it more undependable or more clumsy. I have laser sights and holosights, but ussually I just use iron sights and comfortable full stocks.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 3:20:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
I like .45 autos like they made them back in the 1920's, and S&W revolvers from back in the 1950's.
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What year of car do you drive?
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LOL! I have a 1974 VW "Thing" and I'm working on a 1918 non-starter Model T Ford. Seriously!
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 4:03:13 PM EDT
I'm not trying to force anybody else to give up their goodies here, but just expressing my own opinion. As a Libertarian Party member, I'm certainly not giving my support to any additional legal restrictions. But I sure do wonder what people are thinking when I almost daily read them obsessing so much about the outward appearance of their rifles. I don't base my own firearm purchases on what Army Rangers or "Dirty Harry" are using, and doing so seems a bit childish to me. I will say that some day I'm going to throw a laser sight on a .22 autoloader just as a toy or novelty for plinking. I'll probably get bored with it in about 15 minutes. While I realize the AR-15 has an ideal operating system for a high-precision semi-auto, I still primarily view it as a rifle that was intended to be lightweight and simple. I never was big on heavy barrels or weighty gadgets. And I never did like the telescoping stock. The standard (A1 type) stock is plenty short for most people to shoot with. As far as carrying goes, I'm just not impressed with a stock so snagly and complicated looking (and less than ideal with respect to the internal mechanism of the firearm) that's still 2/3rds there anyway after you collapse it. Another peeve of mine was the 11 1/2 inch barrels with the 5 1/2 inch flash suppressors. These were very fashionable 15 tears ago. I remember reading how testing showed the standard A1 suppressor was actually much more effective than that big chunk of water pipe, so why give up all that barrel length for the same overall size?
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 4:49:17 PM EDT
If you think that tele-stocks are gimmicks than you have never had to train/use an AR 15 while wearing moderately sized body armor. Only complicated by the fact the things you wear on top of it; a coat, an assault vest, a mag vest. But, I'd love to see you strap all that on and handle an A2 stocked weapon! Also, ask an Entry Team if you can do 1 drill with them. Tell them you hate weaponlights and you intend to use a hand-held light. HAHAHA
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 6:08:39 PM EDT
yah, i HATE those gimmiks. things like bayo lugs, flash hiders, pistol grips, tele stocks, detachable mags....ect.....who needs it, all these gimmiks, what is a detachable hi-cap mag even for. and why that stupid gimmiky foregrip. really, anything semi auto it pretty gimmiky, we should just ban all guns with these gimmiky features like bayo lugs and pistol grips (obviously, dripping in sarcasam)
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 6:41:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fiyerbird: If you think that tele-stocks are gimmicks than you have never had to train/use an AR 15 while wearing moderately sized body armor. Only complicated by the fact the things you wear on top of it; a coat, an assault vest, a mag vest. But, I'd love to see you strap all that on and handle an A2 stocked weapon! Also, ask an Entry Team if you can do 1 drill with them. Tell them you hate weaponlights and you intend to use a hand-held light. HAHAHA
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Yes, but how many people who get these things are actually on Entry Teams or deck themselves out in body armor and assault vests when plinking at cans or checking on noises at 2 AM? I'm sure some of the specialized "pin gun" modifications for .45's are helpful for shooting at pins, but are half the guns made up like that ever used for serious competition of that type?
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 6:43:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattsd: yah, i HATE those gimmiks. things like bayo lugs, flash hiders, pistol grips, tele stocks, detachable mags....ect.....who needs it, all these gimmiks, what is a detachable hi-cap mag even for. and why that stupid gimmiky foregrip. really, anything semi auto it pretty gimmiky, we should just ban all guns with these gimmiky features like bayo lugs and pistol grips (obviously, dripping in sarcasam)
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And obviously NOT directed at me.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 6:52:34 PM EDT
Yes, but how many people who get these things are actually on Entry Teams or deck themselves out in body armor and assault vests when plinking at cans or checking on noises at 2 AM? I'm sure some of the specialized "pin gun" modifications for .45's are helpful for shooting at pins, but are half the guns made up like that ever used for serious competition of that type?
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So I guess that none of your guns have any aftermarket upgrades or accessories whatsoever? Why even own more than one gun period?
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 7:23:55 PM EDT
Zora Arkus-Duntov (the man who designed the original Corvette) once said. "Parts left out create no manufacturing headaches and cause no service problems." Stuff that isn't ther can't break. And Murphy's law is most operative in combat.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 7:24:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By havoc: So I guess that none of your guns have any aftermarket upgrades or accessories whatsoever? Why even own more than one gun period?
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I'm looking to get a better trigger for my AR. Something that improves its performance for the things I actually use it for or fear I might one day actually use it for. One purpose for owning more than one gun is to have extras to pass out when my myopic relatives, friends and neighbors finally wake up. I try to economically accumulate multiple useful guns, not costly Rube Goldberg Specials. Of course hobby interest is a valid reason for getting more guns, some people just got silly hobbies.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 7:29:28 PM EDT
I would always prefer to have another gun over expensive accesories.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:19:55 PM EDT
I'm with you Fuzzbean and Gewehr.....old school is best [;)]....another gun is always better than a new "accessory"...If you can shoot, you can shoot, if you can't all the rails, laser sights, psg1 grips, etc, ain't gonna make the bullet hit the target. Kinda makes one wonder what old school gunners like Ed McGivern did without compensated, laser sighted, custom gripped, les baer 1911's.....For you young whipper snappers, Ed McGivern put 5 rounds from a .38 revolver into a group that could be covered with a half dollar in 9/20 second (timed) at 15 feet. That was sometime back in the 1920's or 30's...Wonder how he did that without modern technology?
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:39:46 PM EDT
is this one too gimmicky? [IMG]www.shadowsource.org/dragon/src/oiwc.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]www.shadowsource.org/dragon/src/9809STMIB.jpg[/IMG]
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