get a grumman

Different boats for different tasks.

Typically a decent kayak bn is going to be 2 to 3x the cost of an aluminium canoe.

Plenty of people get rid of canoes they thought were a good idea for around $400... used to be craigslist was the place, I'm sure FB marketplace is probably the place  nowadays.

Preppers might be hoarding them now though...

Maybe a good-sized baidarka. They used to put the women, kids, and dogs inside.  

Kayaks are exponentially more easy to control when you're dealing with rapids than canoes.

Yeah, but a paddle board is even better.

I have both and enjoy both. If I had to pick only one, I’d go canoe.
I’m very surprised to hear they are hard to find around here.
Have you checked out Rutabaga in Madison?

Yep.

Yes, I live in Ely MN, Canoe capital of the world.
Try to pack for a two week trip into the BWCA or Canada with a kayak. That is a short trip for here.  
The Voyagers never has a kayak.  If you are carrying everything to keep alive for weeks with you forget a kayak.  Can't even get the Bear proof food pack in a kayak.

They are all tools with a specific task.  Two different tools for different things.  

They are Very heavy but stable.

BTDT. Two of us took a 15' Coleman(one of the least stable) out in 2 1/2-3' waves breaking on an island. 2-3' of water and it was pushing onshore.

We were prepared to flip but never did.

My preference for canoes comes from being able to sit in several positions. I prefer kneeling but at 62 need to change often.

A lot of people turn their nose up at Colemans but I've had nothing but great luck with them. My 16' Scanoe(old style) is rock solid plus I can hang my 2hp Honda on it.

Start with the task in mind, everyone inevitably answers this thread from their perspective.  If you want to camp out of the boat, or need to portage, a canoe is lightyears better than a kayak.  Fishing water you drive to, a sit on top kayak is pretty great.

I have zero use for sit-inside kayaks and sold the one I owned.  They're good at things I don't have any interest in doing.

Might add that unless you need the extra cargo capacity for week long portaging treks go sit on top.

Canoes also catch more cross wind on open water.

I've also owned both. I own three fishing kayaks and no canoes.

I have a royalex Mad River canoe set up for whitewater.  The seats are raised 1.5" and there are knee pads glued to the deck.  Being able to shift your seating position and switch to and from kneeling is really nice on a long paddle.

Native makes a "hybrid" kayak. It's basically a roto-molded canoe.
https://nativewatercraft.com/product/ultimate-14-5-tandem/

We have 2 of the Bass Pro house brand Kayaks sit-on-top and like them.  They are a bit heavy though.

I got a hankerin for a canoe and bought an Old Town Discovery Solo 119 and much prefer it to my kayak.  Not selling the kayak as I guess my mind could change when the new wears off the canoe, but I doubt it.

I picked up a Mad River dope smoking bunny kayak a few years ago. Dirt cheap.
It's my go to for fishing.
And some hunting.

That said, own 5 kayaks, 1 canoe, 2 aluminum boats, 2....

Different tools for different jobs.


Attached File



Attached File
Attached File

If you get decent quality - a good kayak shop will have both.  If you want cheep, well your probably looking at a kayak.

The real difference between them is where your feet are.  If your feet are under or behind you - its a canoe.  If your feet are in front of you, it is a kayak.  Having your feet under you raises your sitting position and your center of gravity.  Canoes will tend to be a little less stable, but will have a more efficient stroke.  That said, a more efficient canoe stroke.  The higher position causes you to have a more vertical stroke angle, which favors a single bladed paddle.  Using a single bladed paddle requires J strokes and/or constantly changing sides.  A lower blade angle favors double bladed paddles - which are a hell of a lot easier to make the boat go straight.  

Canoes can carry more gear.  In theory canoes are better for some longer trips.  Perhaps they might even be better for certain shoulder injuries.  Kayaks are easier to learn, and while technically slightly more inefficient - tend to win the shorter races.  I don't know where they break line on that is - but most people never travel very long distances.  For playing in a local lake, or going a couple miles downstream - kayak is simply easier.  If you are planning on camping Boundry Waters - you better pack light in a kayak.  That said, I have done a week self supported in a SMALL sea kayak (13').  It is possible.

---
But everything is relative.  I have a full quiver of boats.  I have 2 kevlar canoes that I generally paddle with a double bladed paddle.  In the mid 20lb range - not many kayaks are lighter.  They fly on the water almost as fast as my fastest sea kayak)  I only sit up about 2-4" higher than my kayaks.  But they do allow me to work around some painful nerve issues.  Eventually I hope to do enough physical therapy to be able to paddle in a sea kayak all day long again, but for the moment having my legs in front of me can become quite annoying as they go nerve dead in less than 5 minutes.  For me the real advantage of the kayaks are I can take waves over the sides, or even roll them without skipping a beat.  I also have sit on tops for playing around in the surf, or fishing.  Decent designed boats usually have their niche.  Cheep boats do as well I guess - for selling to suckers who will paddle them 3 times, let them collect dust for 2 years, then sell on Craigslist.  

The skin on frames and strip wood canoes are elegant, but my use (float fishing rocky creeks) would kill one in two trips. I frazzled one roto molded to it's death inside of three years.

That's cool.  I'd fish out of that.

Be careful in that bitch. Not kidding. The camo canoe in the picture 2/3s of the way down on page 1 is a Solo Disco 119. It snap-rolled on me twice in freezing water while duck hunting - with absolutely zero warning. When it goes over, it happens fast...

Really good idea to take it out in warm, shallow water and mess around until you figure out that pivot point.

Canoe= truck

Kayak =car

I have both, but only use the canoe if I'm staying over night. I use the kayak for everything else to include fishing or just paddling. The kayak is much easier to paddle, requiring a lot less effort to travel the same distance. If you are a ultralight camper you could get by camping out of a kayak, but I could never pull it off. I would end up putting my beer in someone's cooler in a canoe and just swapping out empties.

I still don't know why kayaks are so frickin expensive. I still really like my Hobie pro anger though.

Tracks well, 320ish weight capacity, not too terrible heavy. Added the web netting on both ends, original was missing. Can securely haul good bit of gear.
And was CHEAP!

That said, 3 or 4 hours of paddling is all I want, neck and shoulders tore up after life of hard work.

Then it's OB time.

Attached File

Better SOTs also have foot pegs, and it sucks trying to fish from a sit-in.

You'd certainly be right for the person who doesn't fish.  But fishing is just way, way easier from a SOT.

What do you want to do with it? That should drive what you get.

Not all canoes are trucks - some are sports sedans.  Stock photo of one of my canoes (this is standard layup I guess with -0- options, I think mine is an ultralight and has quite a few options).   I was off on the weight - think it is listed as 34lbs, but this is the larger of the 2.  While it was designed as a racing canoe to fit into a specific class, I don't think anyone races them (except maybe on the Safari) - they are simply very high performance tripping canoes.

Ok, let’s see a photo of you hauling a couple ice chests, camping gear, a tree stand and a dead deer.

Then show off your photos of running some rapids and jumping of some waterfalls on a fast river!

We’ll wait right here....

It's GD!

You'll get sex advice from guys that have only known their hand!

I rented one of these on a solo BW trip.  It was easy to paddle with a kayak paddle.

Check out nucanoes and maybe gheenoes depending on your purpose.

Yep, I would agree, the SOT would be the right tool for fishing.  Mine's for exploring creeks and transporting me to places, so I'm not looking at it from that perspective.

Very easy.  But ultra canoe racers have argues that in a long race (the one I wanted to do was 250ish miles), the canoe paddle might be kinder on your body.  I wish I would have done that race when I was younger - I have no doubts at the peak of my paddling career I could have finished.  Now, I have trouble imagining finishing.  But maybe if I get back down to my fighting weight, and fix the nerve issue - it could still happen.

Right now I have trouble doing what was once a quick, short, light day on the lake.  A 2hr paddle at cadence was nothing, and I covered 8 miles.  Now it is a good deal of hurt, and I am lucky to cover 5.

Tagged for info
I’m debating the same. It’ll be used for navigating alligator infested bayous and possibly hauling dead pigs

here, in the few lakes I fish when I have the time,

kayaks are used by families ,or groups of women, that like to paddle around and talk loud,  


really loud,

and they don't seem to care that you have a line in the water,  as they paddle over it,




I had a canoe,  Discovery 169.  and liked it,

but bought a Gheenoe (15') and sold the Disco and the Jonboat,

I am looking at buying a fishing kayak now.

I won't even try to guess what that cost, but I can guarantee that I wouldn't want to take it down some class II or III water to bounce off rocks. It'd be like taking a Corvette around a motocross track.

A kayak beats a canoe in every category except hauling stuff.

Suspect theres been a few down the missouri...

canoe=unstable


Kayak or a ganoe if you want a stable platform for a motor

I prefer canoes  but they are a little more of a hassle than kayaks appear to be. Full disclosure, I have only really used canoes,  I haven't used a kayak in day to day, but I like the versatility of the canoe a lot.

I have a discovery 139 that's about 40" wide, it's pretty freaking stable for a canoe.

Having spent over 40 years paddling and having owned a bunch of both kayaks and canoes, buy a used Grumman 17-18 foot canoe off Craigslist or similar. It will haul the wife kids and dog and you can tool around solo in it if necessary. They’re not super fast nor maneuverable, they’re heavy as fuck but indestructible. Buy decent pfds and paddles.

Once you do that and are on the water, try out different craft. Ask to try out folks boats that you see, ask their opinion. (I’ve let well over a hundred people test ride my boat over the years). Get to know the pluses and minuses of different designs and decide what you want to do on the water. That Grumman may be too big or too small for what you want to do or you may find you need a couple boats. Maybe one light fast single kayak to zip around in and one big ole cargo hauling canoe to use as a water RV.

Good luck whatever you decide.

ETA: and if you truly hate it, you can sell the Grumman in two years for exactly what you paid for it.

True.

I guess it depends on the yak. Mine is a 17.5' touring with 3 cargo hatches and a 22" beam. It cannot be fished out of. It will cut through the water like a knife, though.

Have had sit-on kayaks for a long time and love 'em.  Never had (or wanted) a canoe, but they have their purpose.

Sold my old Ocean Kayak Trident this Summer and got a great deal on a used Bonafide SS127 and a ton of gear!  I slapped a MotorGuide Xi3 w/Pinpoint GPS on it.    

Only got to take it out a few times before it got cold, but man it's nice not having to paddle that barge in the wind, lol.  Really cool to be able to sit on top of a brush pile or tree and not get blown all over by the wind.

Yes, I’ve checked them out.  They definitely sell Tier 1 canoes hand polished in patchouli oil for a price.   Thought Canoeacopia would be the place to go this spring but they canceled that due to Covid fears.  I suppose once the weather warms up stores will have something in stock again.

I have three of each. Simple way to view it is that a canoe is like a pick up truck. A kayak is a motorcycle.

He's not in Texas.  He's in Austin.

Exactly.  If you want to slice through the surf on Lake Superior a sea kayak is the way to go.

Boats are just tools.  Buy the one that does the job.  Some boats are like slip joint pliers.  They can do a lot of different things poorly.  Others are like special spanner wrenches that only do one thing but do it really well.  And everything in between.