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Posted: 1/20/2021 1:23:28 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Running radio coms over long distances isn't trivial. This isn't an FRS radio a quarter mile away. Knowing how to do all of this stuff, which borders on black magic, isn't something you are likely to pick up just because you bought a radio. Buying shit is easy. Knowing how to use it, under stress, when it's not easy or trivial? That's the hard part. And being legal lets you practice, same as training classes and competition creates firearm skills and keeps them sharp. You don't have to state your call sign if things are getting frosty. a lot of peoples "kit" is just larping. radios they dont know how to use med gear they ve never used or trained on enough mags for black hawk down round two |
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Posted: 1/20/2021 7:19:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only pain in the ass for the whole thing neither group would tell you what your score was other than pass/fail. I was told that I got 100% on both of my tests. "Congratulations, Mr. M4Madness, you passed. You got them all right." |
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Posted: 1/20/2021 8:33:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was told that I got 100% on both of my tests. "Congratulations, Mr. M4Madness, you passed. You got them all right." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The only pain in the ass for the whole thing neither group would tell you what your score was other than pass/fail. I was told that I got 100% on both of my tests. "Congratulations, Mr. M4Madness, you passed. You got them all right." I was told my score every test I took. It’s not like the questions are secret and the night answers need to be protected. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:46:10 AM EDT
[#4]
I've been a ham operator for almost 30 years. I got my license because I wanted to use the exclusive ham band frequencies for radio control. Never thought about talking on the radio until I got my no code tech ticket.
I upgraded to a General license a few years ago. I'm thinking of getting on HF to expand on who I am rag chewing than the same old same old guys on the local repeater system. There is DMR on my local repeater system which allows me to connect with the world but it's nothing like trying to chasing DX. Well at least that's what I hear. It's nice to have a way to communicate when the regular ways of communicating is down. Enjoy and be safe. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:06:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been a ham operator for almost 30 years. I got my license because I wanted to use the exclusive ham band frequencies for radio control. Never thought about talking on the radio until I got my no code tech ticket. I upgraded to a General license a few years ago. I'm thinking of getting on HF to expand on who I am rag chewing than the same old same old guys on the local repeater system. There is DMR on my local repeater system which allows me to connect with the world but it's nothing like trying to chasing DX. Well at least that's what I hear. It's nice to have a way to communicate when the regular ways of communicating is down. Enjoy and be safe. If you have a hotspot there's an ARF talkgroup on TGIF. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:40:17 AM EDT
[#6]
How easy is it to be tracked in a short term scenario? For example, your cell phone broke, shtf appears to be happening, and you get in touch with a family member to check on them while you're out and about in your vehicle with a baofeng? Turns out it's not a shtf scenario, and there was no emergency. Seems like ham fudds are the worst enemy in that situation. Just curious if a quick volley of transmissions like that could allow them to "lock" onto your radio or something similar? I'm just starting my interest in this topic, and I have much research on front of me I know.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:26:34 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How easy is it to be tracked in a short term scenario? For example, your cell phone broke, shtf appears to be happening, and you get in touch with a family member to check on them while you're out and about in your vehicle with a baofeng? Turns out it's not a shtf scenario, and there was no emergency. Seems like ham fudds are the worst enemy in that situation. Just curious if a quick volley of transmissions like that could allow them to "lock" onto your radio or something similar? I'm just starting my interest in this topic, and I have much research on front of me I know. Slim to none. The first thing is they have to be listening, then looking for you to begin with and just happen to be on the frequency you are on. plus you are moving so there is no fixed position. A fixed position on your end and a dickhead on the other is realistically what it takes. SO if you are transmitting from home frequently and some dude scanning the channels hears you a few times he might track you down. But they definitely can and do track people down when/if they find them. I have been monitoring the local repeater for days now. On Monday there was a brief discussion about snow and other than that it is dead silent. There really aren't that many ham guys anyway but most especially in my area. So truthfully most of the ham guys are going to either be on this repeater or on HF. ETA: I am brand new to this so this is just my observation of what I have seen as I have been learning about all of this. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:41:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: just dont broadcast from your home. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There are HAM nerds out there that can figure out where you're broadcasting from and sic the FCC on you if you're unlicensed. just dont broadcast from your home. This. Shoot and scoot. Don't transmit from the same place twice. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:13:58 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How easy is it to be tracked in a short term scenario? For example, your cell phone broke, shtf appears to be happening, and you get in touch with a family member to check on them while you're out and about in your vehicle with a baofeng? Turns out it's not a shtf scenario, and there was no emergency. Seems like ham fudds are the worst enemy in that situation. Just curious if a quick volley of transmissions like that could allow them to "lock" onto your radio or something similar? I'm just starting my interest in this topic, and I have much research on front of me I know. People exaggerate the ability and vigor of the ham boomer karens. A conversation along the lines of the following wont attract much attention and wont be long enough to track down "Stacy this is john, are you there" "yes john, this is stacy" " Stacy are you ok, this storm / riot / whatever is bad and you arent answering your phone" "no john, battery just died and nothing bad happened" "ok stacy come home asap" "ok john, on my way" 6 transmissions arent much to go by, especially if your smart enough to drive 2 minutes to a local park / gas station / whatever high traffic area. the ham gestapo does have a hard on for people screwing off or doing shady stuff, especially on the local repeater. but a short semi emergent conversation wont bring down the wrath of thor if you are quick, reasonable, and mobile |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:16:10 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Slim to none. The first thing is they have to be listening, then looking for you to begin with and just happen to be on the frequency you are on. plus you are moving so there is no fixed position. A fixed position on your end and a dickhead on the other is realistically what it takes. SO if you are transmitting from home frequently and some dude scanning the channels hears you a few times he might track you down. But they definitely can and do track people down when/if they find them. I have been monitoring the local repeater for days now. On Monday there was a brief discussion about snow and other than that it is dead silent. There really aren't that many ham guys anyway but most especially in my area. So truthfully most of the ham guys are going to either be on this repeater or on HF. ETA: I am brand new to this so this is just my observation of what I have seen as I have been learning about all of this. X2 first part in bold on the second consider a lot of folks have their radios setup constantly monitoring the local repeater. Also a lot of repeaters are linked, resulting in a large potential audience. do not mistake radio silence for a "free band" where no one can hear you. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:32:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks guys!
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Posted: 1/21/2021 6:44:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People exaggerate the ability and vigor of the ham boomer karens. A conversation along the lines of the following wont attract much attention and wont be long enough to track down "Stacy this is john, are you there" "yes john, this is stacy" " Stacy are you ok, this storm / riot / whatever is bad and you arent answering your phone" "no john, battery just died and nothing bad happened" "ok stacy come home asap" "ok john, on my way" 6 transmissions arent much to go by, especially if your smart enough to drive 2 minutes to a local park / gas station / whatever high traffic area. the ham gestapo does have a hard on for people screwing off or doing shady stuff, especially on the local repeater. but a short semi emergent conversation wont bring down the wrath of thor if you are quick, reasonable, and mobile My club had a next to impossible time catching two coon/bear hunters with a pair of Two meter radios who were accidentally transmitting on the input frequency of a local repeater. If they hadn’t been causing interference in such an open manner, nobody would have gave a flying fuck. It finally stopped because we got word to the local bear hunting club to police it’s members. That took like three years to resolve. These guys weren’t trying to not get caught either, just blundering along aimlessly. We never did actually catch them. It took a good bit of monitoring to just narrow down where approximately they were operating. That wasn’t DFing either, just humint from listening to what they were discussing and their position descriptions. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:15:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My club had a next to impossible time catching two coon/bear hunters with a pair of Two meter radios who were accidentally transmitting on the input frequency of a local repeater. If they hadn’t been causing interference in such an open manner, nobody would have gave a flying fuck. It finally stopped because we got word to the local bear hunting club to police it’s members. That took like three years to resolve. These guys weren’t trying to not get caught either, just blundering along aimlessly. We never did actually catch them. It took a good bit of monitoring to just narrow down where approximately they were operating. That wasn’t DFing either, just humint from listening to what they were discussing and their position descriptions. Exactly my point, thank you. Deciding to blast Insane Clown Possee on the local repeater from your garage and you ll get fucked with. A couple sentence conversation that sounds serious you ll be fine |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 12:36:22 AM EDT
[#14]
I looked at doing this back pre Y2K and gave it a pass at that time because of the investment of time vs the perceived reward at the time.
What I take away from all the discussion: Get a license or don’t buy anything remotely radio related unless you disable the transmitter so that it’s a receiver only. Once you take the test(s) and pass them you have a government issued call sign. You are now licensed to talk to other people on a radio but only on specific frequencies depending of which of the tests you passed. You cannot talk about certain topics or do certain things to the signal (like encryption) or it’s against the law. Go buy some stuff from a myriad of radios and antennas. Find another person that will familiarize you with the lexicon of acronyms and hopefully understands how to assemble and tune all of the radio/antennas you bought to work. Have them help you fathom how any of it technically works. 22 years later I still cannot see the ROI for me personally. Given the limited time I have to invest in learning it I would likely be more of a liability than an asset. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 1:38:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I looked at doing this back pre Y2K and gave it a pass at that time because of the investment of time vs the perceived reward at the time. What I take away from all the discussion: Get a license or don’t buy anything remotely radio related unless you disable the transmitter so that it’s a receiver only. Once you take the test(s) and pass them you have a government issued call sign. You are now licensed to talk to other people on a radio but only on specific frequencies depending of which of the tests you passed. You cannot talk about certain topics or do certain things to the signal (like encryption) or it’s against the law. Go buy some stuff from a myriad of radios and antennas. Find another person that will familiarize you with the lexicon of acronyms and hopefully understands how to assemble and tune all of the radio/antennas you bought to work. Have them help you fathom how any of it technically works. 22 years later I still cannot see the ROI for me personally. Given the limited time I have to invest in learning it I would likely be more of a liability than an asset. For starters, "specific frequencies" is rather inaccurate. Other than the 60 meter band it's chunks of the spectrum. The only really prohibited topics to talk about are commercial endeavors and, as the FCC was kind enough to remind people, illegal activities (duh). For a technician license you probably aren't going to get into HF because it's rather limited. Your radio choices are fairly simple and the antennas are equally easy. Even when you get to general and extra, the information has never been easier to get. Heck, watch Dave Cassler's YouTube series on the reference shack and you'll have a rather good setup (he ended up picking almost all of my first components for his list). But in the end it's up to you obviously. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 2:05:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For starters, "specific frequencies" is rather inaccurate. Other than the 60 meter band it's chunks of the spectrum. The only really prohibited topics to talk about are commercial endeavors and, as the FCC was kind enough to remind people, illegal activities (duh). For a technician license you probably aren't going to get into HF because it's rather limited. Your radio choices are fairly simple and the antennas are equally easy. Even when you get to general and extra, the information has never been easier to get. Heck, watch Dave Cassler's YouTube series on the reference shack and you'll have a rather good setup (he ended up picking almost all of my first components for his list). But in the end it's up to you obviously. I am glad someone has made a video on it. Maybe that will give me an idea of what I am doing and getting into. When I first looked 22 years ago I downloaded the “pool of questions” and set about memorizing them. So I likely could pass the test but still have little idea what I was actually doing once that happened. I joked I was like a blind man memorizing an eye chart. I can’t see it at all but I can darn sure tell you what it says from right here doc! |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:29:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I joked I was like a blind man memorizing an eye chart. I can’t see it at all but I can darn sure tell you what it says from right here doc! That is a very good analogy. I'm currently studying Amatuer Extra just in case I decide to upgrade, and it's like trying to memorize stuff in a foreign language.  I have no clue what it means, but I'm remembering a lot of it. I've never even turned on an amateur radio yet, yet here I am.
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:47:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since we have so many analogies on here let me use mine for another hobby...scuba diving. I am an instructor. I can only imagine how the hobby would die if the people who wanted to dive in shallow tropical waters were required to learn about trimix for deep diving and building your own regulators right from the start. Instead those are avenues one can peruse if it interests you. I'm fairly sure you can train someone for the Technician Exam in less time than would be required to get someone a PADI open water certification. I do agree that a greater % of the open water course is applicable to everyone who is going to take it than the Technician Exam is to people who'd like to play on the 2 meter band. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:46:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a very good analogy. I'm currently studying Amatuer Extra just in case I decide to upgrade, and it's like trying to memorize stuff in a foreign language. I have no clue what it means, but I'm remembering a lot of it. I've never even turned on an amateur radio yet, yet here I am.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I joked I was like a blind man memorizing an eye chart. I can’t see it at all but I can darn sure tell you what it says from right here doc! That is a very good analogy. I'm currently studying Amatuer Extra just in case I decide to upgrade, and it's like trying to memorize stuff in a foreign language. I have no clue what it means, but I'm remembering a lot of it. I've never even turned on an amateur radio yet, yet here I am.I worked to learn most of the material, but the portion that started with imaginary numbers and I was just like “eh, it’s easier to learn three answers”.
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:49:10 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I worked to learn most of the material, but the portion that started with imaginary numbers and I was just like “eh, it’s easier to learn three answers”. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I joked I was like a blind man memorizing an eye chart. I can’t see it at all but I can darn sure tell you what it says from right here doc! That is a very good analogy. I'm currently studying Amatuer Extra just in case I decide to upgrade, and it's like trying to memorize stuff in a foreign language. I have no clue what it means, but I'm remembering a lot of it. I've never even turned on an amateur radio yet, yet here I am.I worked to learn most of the material, but the portion that started with imaginary numbers and I was just like “eh, it’s easier to learn three answers”. I figure I can take the time to learn what it all means AFTER I pass the test.  |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:53:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I kind of agree. Plus if you have a license all your info is published online. I have my reservations on getting licensed. All of this, GD always preaches about being the gray man. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 11:13:52 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm fairly sure you can train someone for the Technician Exam in less time than would be required to get someone a PADI open water certification. I do agree that a greater % of the open water course is applicable to everyone who is going to take it than the Technician Exam is to people who'd like to play on the 2 meter band. agreed. but the significant difference is that the open water diver has already set up all his equipment, been on two dives, and made good contacts with future dive buddies. in contrast the technician may have never touched a radio, set one up or transmitted |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 11:16:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of this, GD always preaches about being the gray man. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I kind of agree. Plus if you have a license all your info is published online. I have my reservations on getting licensed. All of this, GD always preaches about being the gray man. I dont understand why GD acts like everything about them isnt already online. Have you ever googled your name? Dont transmit anything "interesting" under your call sign and you wont have a problem. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 11:19:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I looked at doing this back pre Y2K and gave it a pass at that time because of the investment of time vs the perceived reward at the time. What I take away from all the discussion: Get a license or don’t buy anything remotely radio related unless you disable the transmitter so that it’s a receiver only. Once you take the test(s) and pass them you have a government issued call sign. You are now licensed to talk to other people on a radio but only on specific frequencies depending of which of the tests you passed. You cannot talk about certain topics or do certain things to the signal (like encryption) or it’s against the law. Go buy some stuff from a myriad of radios and antennas. Find another person that will familiarize you with the lexicon of acronyms and hopefully understands how to assemble and tune all of the radio/antennas you bought to work. Have them help you fathom how any of it technically works. 22 years later I still cannot see the ROI for me personally. Given the limited time I have to invest in learning it I would likely be more of a liability than an asset. I agree that the process is unnecessarily complicated and convoluted from the outside looking in. As someone who just took their technician test I do have to say it was a lot easier and nicer than I thought. My local club bent over backwards to help me out. Getting into ham on your own doesnt really have much benefit. It is a force multiplier if you and a few friends simultaneously get licensed and get everything set up and dialed in so that you can regularly practice so when shtf your not stuck relying on cell or internet. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 11:27:31 AM EDT
[#25]
Rugged race radios????
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Posted: 1/22/2021 11:39:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Slim to none. This. The government is far more interested in surveillance of visible spectrum such as video cameras, facial and gate recognition than RF surveillance. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 1:20:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: agreed. but the significant difference is that the open water diver has already set up all his equipment, been on two dives, and made good contacts with future dive buddies. in contrast the technician may have never touched a radio, set one up or transmitted The open water diver has demonstrated a minimum proficiency in both knowledge and certain skills. It takes zero skills to pass a written test. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 2:41:29 PM EDT
[#28]
This thread made me re-download the hamstudy.org app and start prepping for the extra class exam.
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Posted: 1/22/2021 2:42:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Well my diver analogy veered us way off course.
Regardless, as an outsider thinking of jumping in, I just see the initial information as being a bit overwhelming and to be blunt...uninteresting to most folks. I can't help but feel that the ham community is hurting itself with the licensing scheme in place which is resulting in their hobby slowly dying. Or maybe I am wrong and the ham community is flourishing? |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 2:49:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well my diver analogy veered us way off course. Regardless, as an outsider thinking of jumping in, I just see the initial information as being a bit overwhelming and to be blunt...uninteresting to most folks. I can't help but feel that the ham community is hurting itself with the licensing scheme in place which is resulting in their hobby slowly dying. Or maybe I am wrong and the ham community is flourishing? There is no perfect analogy but a better one would be a state forest shooting pit that required you access the roads to it with vehicle registration and a state forest pass of some type. There are groups who want to lobby the government to close shooting in the pit so they can use it for their own purposes. They claim people are dumping trash and not paying for use with their passes. To combat this, a group of dedicated shooters hang out picking up trash and verbally berating people who dump junk or don’t have their pass. The people being assholes are trying to preserve the RKBA in the face of a stronger force. The ham community self polices. It’s like seeing threads where people post pics with their fingers on the trigger. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 2:53:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no perfect analogy but a better one would be a state forest shooting pit that required you access the roads to it with vehicle registration and a state forest pass of some type. There are groups who want to lobby the government to close shooting in the pit so they can use it for their own purposes. They claim people are dumping trash and not paying for use with their passes. To combat this, a group of dedicated shooters hang out picking up trash and verbally berating people who dump junk or don’t have their pass. The people being assholes are trying to preserve the RKBA in the face of a stronger force. The ham community self polices. It’s like seeing threads where people post pics with their fingers on the trigger. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well my diver analogy veered us way off course. Regardless, as an outsider thinking of jumping in, I just see the initial information as being a bit overwhelming and to be blunt...uninteresting to most folks. I can't help but feel that the ham community is hurting itself with the licensing scheme in place which is resulting in their hobby slowly dying. Or maybe I am wrong and the ham community is flourishing? There is no perfect analogy but a better one would be a state forest shooting pit that required you access the roads to it with vehicle registration and a state forest pass of some type. There are groups who want to lobby the government to close shooting in the pit so they can use it for their own purposes. They claim people are dumping trash and not paying for use with their passes. To combat this, a group of dedicated shooters hang out picking up trash and verbally berating people who dump junk or don’t have their pass. The people being assholes are trying to preserve the RKBA in the face of a stronger force. The ham community self polices. It’s like seeing threads where people post pics with their fingers on the trigger. It seems to be working out well for them as even in a firearms community, where you are likely to have far more interest than the general population, most don't want to be associated with it. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 2:56:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems to be working out well for them as even in a firearms community, where you are likely to have far more interest than the general population, most don't want to be associated with it. It’s really popular in the western Washington area. I think the overlanding craze is driving it. Thats why I got involved. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 2:59:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s really popular in the western Washington area. I think the overlanding craze is driving it. Thats why I got involved. I could see that. As well there will be an influx from this mess we are in now, which is why I am getting involved. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 3:34:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread made me re-download the hamstudy.org app and start prepping for the extra class exam. That's what I've been doing this week, except I'm just using their website instead of their app. |
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