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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:09:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're not in fast food and can't afford to pay your absolute minimum talent 2-3x minimum wage you shouldn't be in business. Minimum wage can't be 2, 10, 20,or 75 an hour. That doesn't matter. Inb4 just own a business. Been there. Done that. Made lots of profit. I can’t imagine paying a cashier a fully burdened rate of over $50/hr. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:09:56 PM EDT
[#2]
It’s okay, the H1B fellas can be paid below minimum wage. And tax credits will be given for certain other workers so it’ll all be utopian
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:10:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Ten years ago an acquaintance owned and operated a concrete products plant. Dirty, heavy, nasty work. He paid about $5 over minimum, and recognized that the jobs he provided NEEDED to be $5 over minimum. I think min was about $9, and he paid $14.
Along came a min wage hike. It ran up to $10. He recognized he could not continue to pay $14, and keep his labor. He'd need to go to $15, 16 to attract and retain workers. The unfortunate part was this: the business was already on shaky footing. There was not way he could hike wages to $15 and keep going... When the min wage was $9, he hired and paid roughly 20 employees about $14/hour and the plant kept running. When min wage ran to $10, he laid everybody off, locked the doors and walked away. All done. It's over. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:11:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Me too. A sudden 33% increase in minimum wage becomes a 33% decrease in the buying power for the doctors, engineers, lawyers and every other high earner that has put in the time, effort and years of education and experience to get where they are
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:13:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Imagine you've got Joe Shop Guy working for you. He's very good at what he does and has been loyal to you for several years. His hours are perfect. You rely on him. You're paying him $16.00 / hour and he's currently happy. He's making $7.00 more per hour than most of the other guys in your shop, who are nowhere near his level. Along comes Sleepy Joe. One day, Sleepy Joe manages to get $15.00/hour minimum wage passed through the House and Senate. And just like that, Joe Shop Guy went from making well over 2x the minimum wage to only $1.00 per hour more than the riff-raff who are stoned half the time and only show up 3 days a week (being brutally honest here). He calls you out on it. What do you say? Sure, if push came to shove, you'd "win" the argument, but let's be realistic, what the hell are you going to tell him? Now, let's take the plant manager who's making $100,000 / year. That's 6.6 times the current minimum wage. He knows he's worth at LEAST 6.6 riff-raff guys. Probably more like 10 or 15. The minimum wage becomes $15.00/hour. Now you've got to somehow explain to him that's he's only worth 3.2 entry-level shop guys? How's that conversation going to go? Cost of everything is going to go through the roof. Compare US cost of living to Australia- Australia’s min wage converts to about $15 us, twice the US, guess how much more their cost of living is? |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:14:22 PM EDT
[#6]
This shit already happened in NY.
We've always payed above minimum wage. Our payroll went way up as minimum wage went up a dollar every year. I've been using less staff hours and I'm making the business more efficient. I'm working more. Many businesses are doing the same. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:17:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the first ones to go will be the fast food joints in the hood. Where will the ghetto rats get their food? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It will destroy restaurants first. Then everything will cost more. I would think it would be instantaneously noticed. And the first ones to go will be the fast food joints in the hood. Where will the ghetto rats get their food? You’re going pay for it, we all are, via EBT etc. And they won’t even have to work at a fast food place to get it anyway... |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:17:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hello $6.00 cheeseburger Have a peek out from under that rock sometime. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:18:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me too. A sudden 33% increase in minimum wage becomes a 33% decrease in the buying power for the doctors, engineers, lawyers and every other high earner that has put in the time, effort and years of education and experience to get where they are That math is whack. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:19:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This right here. Wealth redistribution. Perfect storm to blame corporate America when they lay off half their workers just to stay in business. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hint. It’s not unintended consequences. It’s very much intended. This right here. Wealth redistribution. Perfect storm to blame corporate America when they lay off half their workers just to stay in business. Hyperflation is the democrats goal. Don’t for one second think that it isn’t. Look at fucking Venezuela and how fast it happened. These are absolutely intended consequences. At that point the fed can’t control monetary policy. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:19:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're not in fast food and can't afford to pay your absolute minimum talent 2-3x minimum wage you shouldn't be in business. Minimum wage can't be 2, 10, 20,or 75 an hour. That doesn't matter. Inb4 just own a business. Been there. Done that. Made lots of profit. Huh? So when they make the minimum wage $15 then by your theory any business not fast food should be paying $30 an hour... how exactly would that not cause rapid inflation and put the minimum wage workers back in the same supposed poor house.  The only way for that to work would be to cut the profits of the business. That ain't gonna happen and is counter productive to running a business!
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:20:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Economists like AOC have already got this figured out. According to them everyone's wages from dishwasher to president of the company goes up when you raise the minimum wage. Glad to have answered your question. We all know that's not true and really stupid to assume. But lets not forget Republicans have been parroting the trickle down economics for years. Wall mart gets to work people30hrs a week so they don't get insurance. Then they still qualify for food stamps that they spend at Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart makes millions and then we give them tax breaks. They are screwing the tax payer and community at every angle. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:20:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're not in fast food and can't afford to pay your absolute minimum talent 2-3x minimum wage you shouldn't be in business. Minimum wage can't be 2, 10, 20,or 75 an hour. That doesn't matter. Inb4 just own a business. Been there. Done that. Made lots of profit. ETA you sound like someone that doesn't understand minimum wage. It is not a living wage. It is the legal minimum you can pay someone to work. Think about that. That is what you pay someone doing the minimum to not get fired and stay employed. So calling off as often as possible, doing the shittiest work with the least amount of effort. Basically a warm body to mostly show up. I belive that most making minimum wage are still over paid. I've never in my 24 years of working seen people making minimum wage that didn't deserve it. I've only ever made minimum wage for 9 months my entire life. Work hard and look to move up or stay there and suck at life. I firmly believe you make what your worth. There are times when life is going to kick your teeth in and you have to start over but there is no reason you can't work your way back up and do better. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:21:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cost of everything is going to go through the roof. Compare US cost of living to Australia- Australia’s min wage converts to about $15 us, twice the US, guess how much more their cost of living is? Australia’s cost of living is 16% higher than the US. And the vast majority of Americans have a state or city minimum wage higher than federal. Just the facts. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:24:19 PM EDT
[#15]
To make matters worse EVERYONE'S just lost buying power if they didn't get a reaise.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:24:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hint. It’s not unintended consequences. It’s very much intended. Came here to say this! Oh, and post 87! |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:26:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Republicans are missing an opportunity here to raise the minimum wage in a way that harms blue states. Just set a federal minimum wage and use state/county/MSA cost of living adjustments (including housing and gas prices) to adjust the amount. So the federal minimum wage rises to $10/hr in the rural south and $28/hr in coastal progressive cities.  |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:27:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To make matters worse EVERYONE'S just lost buying power if they didn't get a reaise. And again, that’s the democrats goal. To destroy America and our prosperity and spirit. Government save us!!! Venezuela is a perfect example and just how fast it can happen. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:29:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We would probably stop going out to eat at that point Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It will destroy restaurants first. Then everything will cost more. I would think it would be instantaneously noticed. We would probably stop going out to eat at that point In before $20 hamburgers at 5 Guys. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:29:58 PM EDT
[#20]
So what's shop guy going to do?
Quit because the fuck ups make almost as much as him? If he quits maybe he can find another job at $15 an hr |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:33:35 PM EDT
[#21]
I've been saying that if one half of the country can't get along with the other half via common ground, and you can't ignore the differences away anymore, the only other step is to eliminate those you can't get along with.
War, exile, or enslavement. Better be ready to be froggy and leap on one of those three, buckaroo. Well, if you have half the nation proving free slave labor, you can suddenly afford all those wage increases........oh shit.  Boy Do I Hate Being Right All the Time |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:36:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what's shop guy going to do? Quit because the fuck ups make almost as much as him? If he quits maybe he can find another job at $15 an hr Maybe, and then take his minimum wage and go get .gov benefits cuz he’s poor now. Or maybe just stay and do a crappy job because he feels he’s not valuable anymore. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:36:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can’t imagine paying a cashier a fully burdened rate of over $50/hr. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you're not in fast food and can't afford to pay your absolute minimum talent 2-3x minimum wage you shouldn't be in business. Minimum wage can't be 2, 10, 20,or 75 an hour. That doesn't matter. Inb4 just own a business. Been there. Done that. Made lots of profit. I can’t imagine paying a cashier a fully burdened rate of over $50/hr. It doesn't really matter if minimum wage is 1, 10, or 100 dollars an hour. No one competent will work for minimum wage for any period of time. If minimum wage is 1000 a hour everyone else's wage will adjust. It might not be smooth but it will adjust. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:39:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Exactly the same thing happened to me here in the Uk. Early 90s or late 80s
I was an SMT maintenance tech. Qualifications, apprenticeship etc. By the stroke of a pen payed the same as operators with little work ethic and next to zero responsibilities comparatively. All that happened was prices of everything went up, I went from being relatively well paid with disposable income to a wage slave with a massive mortgage because house prices went through the roof. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:39:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hello $6.00 cheeseburger If you're paying less than $6 for one now it's shit. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:40:15 PM EDT
[#26]
What Normally happens is that the number of people on the payroll is reduced to keep the $ amount the same.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:40:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me too. A sudden 33% increase in minimum wage becomes a 33% decrease in the buying power for the doctors, engineers, lawyers and every other high earner that has put in the time, effort and years of education and experience to get where they are Not just them, what about everyone else? For Example, They can't hire decent Police right now, this sure in the hell won't help because wages for Police and other comparable jobs won't go up. This goes for everyone. Flip burgers for $15 an hour or get shot at for $16 an hour. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:41:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't really matter if minimum wage is 1, 10, or 100 dollars an hour. No one competent will work for minimum wage for any period of time. If minimum wage is 1000 a hour everyone else's wage will adjust. It might not be smooth but it will adjust. Except that’s not true. In my state the minimum wage has increased by 50% in the last decade but the median wage hasn’t. Nationally the same would be true. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:41:49 PM EDT
[#29]
We are all going to be millionaires.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:42:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Well... look at the chart for M-1 and how much new money they have printed... lol it was going to come into the price of wages and the price of things you buy every day at some point.... and when it does... oh boy watch out.... people will lose faith in the currency and something something Zim dollar...
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:42:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't really matter if minimum wage is 1, 10, or 100 dollars an hour. No one competent will work for minimum wage for any period of time. If minimum wage is 1000 a hour everyone else's wage will adjust. It might not be smooth but it will adjust. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:42:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What Normally happens is that the number of people on the payroll is reduced to keep the $ amount the same. It doesn’t work that way. You’d have to be a fucking idiot to run your business like that. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:44:23 PM EDT
[#33]
FPNI!
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:46:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well... look at the chart for M-1 and how much new money they have printed... lol it was going to come into the price of wages and the price of things you buy every day at some point.... and when it does... oh boy watch out.... people will lose faith in the currency and something something Zim dollar... The inflation right now is amongst the super wealthy. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:47:02 PM EDT
[#35]
The only positive is that it would put people above the Governments poverty line and kick them off of EBT and Medicaid. Those 2 things cost well into the Billions every year.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:47:16 PM EDT
[#36]
What make you say it is unintended? Democrats need poor people to buy with handouts. The pass a $15 minimum wage and people that were doing fine will be in deep shit.
They know exactly what they are doing. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:47:55 PM EDT
[#37]
You instantly devalue everyone making more than minimum wage while overhauling low and no skill people. There are a ton of jobs in the world that are not worth $15 an hour.
The people just above that $15 are going to get a serious case of the fuckits if they ever push this through. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:49:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh? So when they make the minimum wage $15 then by your theory any business not fast food should be paying $30 an hour... how exactly would that not cause rapid inflation and put the minimum wage workers back in the same supposed poor house. The only way for that to work would be to cut the profits of the business. That ain't gonna happen and is counter productive to running a business!Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you're not in fast food and can't afford to pay your absolute minimum talent 2-3x minimum wage you shouldn't be in business. Minimum wage can't be 2, 10, 20,or 75 an hour. That doesn't matter. Inb4 just own a business. Been there. Done that. Made lots of profit. Huh? So when they make the minimum wage $15 then by your theory any business not fast food should be paying $30 an hour... how exactly would that not cause rapid inflation and put the minimum wage workers back in the same supposed poor house. The only way for that to work would be to cut the profits of the business. That ain't gonna happen and is counter productive to running a business!Not quite but generally. When a business is unable to both pay well and provide a quality product making a profit they should fold to the free market. There's nothing magic about it. as GD so confidently says about the free market raise prices to cover your expenses plus profit or get out of the business. If consumers are not willing to pay for a quality product give up and start a different business. People whine all day about not being able to find American made quality products and then always opt for the crappy version that's 33% of the cost and lasts 10% as long. So goes the free market. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:51:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Republicans are missing an opportunity here to raise the minimum wage in a way that harms blue states. Just set a federal minimum wage and use state/county/MSA cost of living adjustments (including housing and gas prices) to adjust the amount. So the federal minimum wage rises to $10/hr in the rural south and $28/hr in coastal progressive cities. Sounds like a great way to accelerate the already significant problem of Dem voters fleeing Dem states for red states, without learning any lessons about why they're leaving the laces they're leaving and going to the places they're going to, and turning their destinations to be more like the places they just fled from. Red states need to figure out ways to stay as prosperous as they are while still being un-attractive to the kinds of people who vote for policies that make them less prosperous. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:51:32 PM EDT
[#40]
You are missing a bigger point. Labor unions such as trade and teacher unions have contracts that have automatic triggers for when the minimum wage increases. Some contracts have a percentage in which their pay must increase, others have immediate renegotiations of contracts. This is why the unions are pushing this.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:52:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You instantly devalue everyone making more than minimum wage while overhauling low and no skill people. There are a ton of jobs in the world that are not worth $15 an hour. The people just above that $15 are going to get a serious case of the fuckits if they ever push this through. Not just above, everyone because other wages will not go up comparably. Due to Covid in the last year wages for the most part have went stagnant. There flat out isn't the money to pay people $15 an hour. Also $15 an hour is different in North Platte, NE than it is in New York City. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:53:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hyperflation is the democrats goal. Don’t for one second think that it isn’t. Look at fucking Venezuela and how fast it happened. These are absolutely intended consequences. At that point the fed can’t control monetary policy. You realize by quoting your post and saying "this right here" I was agreeing with you right? They don't want an American currency...they want a global currency. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:53:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Republicans are missing an opportunity here to raise the minimum wage in a way that harms blue states. Just set a federal minimum wage and use state/county/MSA cost of living adjustments (including housing and gas prices) to adjust the amount. So the federal minimum wage rises to $10/hr in the rural south and $28/hr in coastal progressive cities. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/84914/AccurateSlimBlackfish-size_restricted-1224606.gif Sorry.....did you say something? |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:54:27 PM EDT
[#44]
This is exactly what the average democratic voter does not understand.
The government cannot magically create wealth by decree. So if a minimum wage is raised, all that does is create an immediate inflationary offset, that quickly negates any increased purchasing power of the wage increase. Ditto with "stimulus checks," running the printing presses at the Treasury Department, etc. etc. etc., and every other lame brained idea they come up with. Our problem: How to get millions of ABSOLUTE IDIOT VOTERS to understand this. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:56:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except that’s not true. In my state the minimum wage has increased by 50% in the last decade but the median wage hasn’t. Nationally the same would be true. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It doesn't really matter if minimum wage is 1, 10, or 100 dollars an hour. No one competent will work for minimum wage for any period of time. If minimum wage is 1000 a hour everyone else's wage will adjust. It might not be smooth but it will adjust. Except that’s not true. In my state the minimum wage has increased by 50% in the last decade but the median wage hasn’t. Nationally the same would be true. Minimum wage isn't tied to monetary inflation numbers. You could peg it at say 5 dollars an hour and inflation adjusted wages are going to drop like a rock when you print trillion after trillion dollars year after year. Buying power or more commonly called inflation adjusted wages isn't a single variable equation. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:58:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We all know that's not true and really stupid to assume. But lets not forget Republicans have been parroting the trickle down economics for years. Wall mart gets to work people30hrs a week so they don't get insurance. Then they still qualify for food stamps that they spend at Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart makes millions and then we give them tax breaks. They are screwing the tax payer and community at every angle. This is the section of these pushes for Min-Wage Increases that don't get enough attention. You have Republicans that have no fucking interest in the well-being of their voters and "lessers." You also have massive companies like Amazon pushing for wage hikes to drive smaller businesses into the ground, and force competitors like Walmart to the negotiating table for eventual buyouts/mergers. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:01:03 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s sort of where I’m at now. New guys who literally don’t know shit are starting out $4-6/ hr more than I did. Yet my wages have been the same for two years. I as well as others are pissed. You should demand a meeting with your Company’s largest customers to explain why they should pay you all more. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:01:59 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Imagine you've got Joe Shop Guy working for you. He's very good at what he does and has been loyal to you for several years. His hours are perfect. You rely on him. You're paying him $16.00 / hour and he's currently happy. He's making $7.00 more per hour than most of the other guys in your shop, who are nowhere near his level. Along comes Sleepy Joe. One day, Sleepy Joe manages to get $15.00/hour minimum wage passed through the House and Senate. And just like that, Joe Shop Guy went from making well over 2x the minimum wage to only $1.00 per hour more than the riff-raff who are stoned half the time and only show up 3 days a week (being brutally honest here). He calls you out on it. What do you say? Sure, if push came to shove, you'd "win" the argument, but let's be realistic, what the hell are you going to tell him? Now, let's take the plant manager who's making $100,000 / year. That's 6.6 times the current minimum wage. He knows he's worth at LEAST 6.6 riff-raff guys. Probably more like 10 or 15. The minimum wage becomes $15.00/hour. Now you've got to somehow explain to him that's he's only worth 3.2 entry-level shop guys? How's that conversation going to go? It's going to go about like the discussions in my area with cops making the same hourly as a Wal-Mart greeter or a burger flipper at McD's. Not well at all. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:02:05 AM EDT
[#49]
It will drive a lot of mom-n-pop shops out of business. Just look at Seattle when they tried that.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:03:08 AM EDT
[#50]
Joe really wants $15 an hour federal minimum?
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