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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:05:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolutely possible. There are 4 backup engines standing by. That is assuming it wasn't a core stage thingy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Only 67.7 seconds, hopefully the failed component can be quickly repaired and will see another test soon. Is another test fire within 30 days possible? Absolutely possible. There are 4 backup engines standing by. That is assuming it wasn't a core stage thingy. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:10:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm in. I owe you a Cuban sammich anyways , you better be in ! |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:17:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I owe you a Cuban sammich anyways , you better be in ! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm in. I owe you a Cuban sammich anyways , you better be in ! Double in 
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:36:22 PM EDT
[#4]
There is supposed to be a post test presser.
NASA live says TBD and aprox 2hr after test and 7:30 so who knows when really. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:47:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll be at the turn basin unloading it, it is huge bitch. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'll be at Port Canaveral when that core stage comes in by barge , that bitch is huge ! I'll be at the turn basin unloading it, it is huge bitch. Are you a hott sea pirate? |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:51:31 PM EDT
[#6]
So....
Are those engines cooled with liquid helium? Liquid nitrogen? They froze over PDQ once the test fire stopped. No wonder the Shuttle was so frigging expensive to fly. Rebuilding those engines? Liquid helium taps into the zero point energy field. So, if that is liquid helium and we are inducing quantum realm fluctuations to the equation... |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:53:11 PM EDT
[#7]
So I take it was a success.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:54:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So I take it was a success. Yes and no. 
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:56:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Biden cancels SLS, will G.D. applaud him, or hate him? I'd tip my hat to the senile old fool. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:00:14 PM EDT
[#10]
NASA is to be congratulated.
They've now created a rocket so expensive that nobody can afford to launch it. If you launch that thing more that once a year it hollows out NASA's budget from the inside out. I doubt there's another space agency on the planet that could accomplish that. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:04:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes and no. Not great , not terrible. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:05:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So.... Are those engines cooled with liquid helium? Liquid nitrogen? They froze over PDQ once the test fire stopped. No wonder the Shuttle was so frigging expensive to fly. Rebuilding those engines? Liquid helium taps into the zero point energy field. So, if that is liquid helium and we are inducing quantum realm fluctuations to the equation... Cooled by liquid hydrogen, even colder than helium. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:10:02 PM EDT
[#13]
If you guys saw how ridiculously old and shitty and analog the aerojet/rockeydyne section of the HWIL was for SLS some of you would shit yourselves. At least the ones that have been in aerospace long enough lol.
I'm still amazed they let me do firmware loads/changes into the core stage flight computers when I didn't even know how to program in XML before I got into that lab. That was a couple jobs ago now thank god.  Those poor test engineers back at MSFC are gonna have the saddles tightened as they run through that run a few more times on ARTEMIS/MAESTRO and analyze the existing data. That lab was some of the coolest and most complicated hardware I ever got to work on in the most absofuckinglutely pants on head retarded management and leadership environment. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:19:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Didn't even go 1 min out of the 8min expected...
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:26:31 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 1/16/2021 9:09:05 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 1/16/2021 9:26:53 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 1/16/2021 10:44:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am certain my wife and I will fly down for the SLS launch. Watching that launch is probably going to be like watching a Saturn V. ... although based on this test, we should probably schedule a couple of extra days after the scheduled launch day. I have done a fair amount of work on SLS and CCV. I have been planning to watch an SLS launch in person. But I think the chances of Biden cancelling the whole thing are far better than my ever seeing a launch. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 10:59:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have done a fair amount of work on SLS and CCV. I have been planning to watch an SLS launch in person. But I think the chances of Biden cancelling the whole thing are far better than my ever seeing a launch.  (Honestly, I'll be lucky if all the programs I work on aren't cut by the incoming administration and I lose my job.) |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 1:31:05 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cooled by liquid hydrogen, even colder than helium. Liquid hydrogen evaporating to gas. So like 10times as much energy is getting sucked more Than just being cooled by it. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:06:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Figure out what , how to land it without it blowing up ? What was it , 6 or 8 months ago that fanboys were gloating that Starship(s) would be doing orbital flights THIS MONTH ? Does SpaceX not have to build and test and make reliable a booster first before it gets a Starship in to space ? Maybe a reliable Starship should come first , Yes / No ? They have along way to go before they get that glorified grain silo in to space and it would not shock me if Artemis beats them to it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When I first heard it, I thought it sounded goofy - but when you look at just how ridiculously accurate SpaceX has gotten in landing Falcon cores, and how accurate the SN8 prototype was (even without directional thrusters, and just using the engine gimbal) when it was coming in for its (crash) landing , I am not even very skeptical any longer. I bet they can figure it out pretty quickly. Figure out what , how to land it without it blowing up ? What was it , 6 or 8 months ago that fanboys were gloating that Starship(s) would be doing orbital flights THIS MONTH ? Does SpaceX not have to build and test and make reliable a booster first before it gets a Starship in to space ? Maybe a reliable Starship should come first , Yes / No ? They have along way to go before they get that glorified grain silo in to space and it would not shock me if Artemis beats them to it. Your endless SpaceX hate is all the more laughable when, once again, SLS demonstrates the utter failure of oldspace to accomplish even the old and routine. Another green run *might* happen in two or three more months. SpaceX is managing to swap out engines and relight within two to three days, while bitching that they're still striving to get that down to hours. Hell, the extra development costs from the delay caused by today's failure, are likely to be roughly comparable to the ENTIRE cost to develop Falcon Heavy. The latter cost $0.5 billion to create, while so far SLS has cost at least $11.5 billion...and hasn't even managed a successful test firing. And for what? $150 million can get you a Falcon Heavy expended launch ordered up and delivered within a few months, delivering 70 tons to LEO. So $2.14 mil per ton of payload. In another year..or two...Block 1 may finally fly..and carry 95 tons to orbit. At an incremental unit cost of over $2 billion...or in other words, $21.05 mil per ton of payload...literally ten times more expensive. You could literally launch half a dozen Falcon Heavys in expendable configuration, and pay someone half a billion to develop and build an orbital depot for your payload, and still come out hundreds of millions of dollars cheaper than a single SLS launch, despite putting more than three times as much equipment into orbit. And that's assuming, of course, that SLS continues to fly for decades, and the total development cost is amortized down to nothing. It's far more likely that Biden cancels the program, or it gets shut down by Congress in the next few years after a major failure. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:29:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you guys saw how ridiculously old and shitty and analog the aerojet/rockeydyne section of the HWIL was for SLS some of you would shit yourselves. At least the ones that have been in aerospace long enough lol. I'm still amazed they let me do firmware loads/changes into the core stage flight computers when I didn't even know how to program in XML before I got into that lab. That was a couple jobs ago now thank god. Those poor test engineers back at MSFC are gonna have the saddles tightened as they run through that run a few more times on ARTEMIS/MAESTRO and analyze the existing data. That lab was some of the coolest and most complicated hardware I ever got to work on in the most absofuckinglutely pants on head retarded management and leadership environment. That's what irritates me the most about all this. NASA can and has done some incredible things. But the way things are now. This ridiculous car crash of obsolete technologies, political obligations, contradictory goals and god knows what else.... Is unacceptable. The engines they tried to test today should be in museums. They were unacceptable when the Shuttle was in service. Having to be rebuilt after every flight and the fact that with this design they will simply be ditched in the ocean?  NASA should be... Well they should be doing a lot of things. Personally I think they should be working on new generation deep space probes, observation satellites and finally getting the James Webb Telescope off the fucking ground. But here we are. Watching a failed test run of an antique engine cluster. Instead of having Lindsey Stirling dancing around the assembly building they should have performed this in front of a montage of all of NASAs shortcomings since 1975.  kt tunstall Saving My Face |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 8:46:46 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your endless SpaceX hate is all the more laughable when, once again, SLS demonstrates the utter failure of oldspace to accomplish even the old and routine. Another green run *might* happen in two or three more months. SpaceX is managing to swap out engines and relight within two to three days, while bitching that they're still striving to get that down to hours. Hell, the extra development costs from the delay caused by today's failure, are likely to be roughly comparable to the ENTIRE cost to develop Falcon Heavy. The latter cost $0.5 billion to create, while so far SLS has cost at least $11.5 billion...and hasn't even managed a successful test firing. And for what? $150 million can get you a Falcon Heavy expended launch ordered up and delivered within a few months, delivering 70 tons to LEO. So $2.14 mil per ton of payload. In another year..or two...Block 1 may finally fly..and carry 95 tons to orbit. At an incremental unit cost of over $2 billion...or in other words, $21.05 mil per ton of payload...literally ten times more expensive. You could literally launch half a dozen Falcon Heavys in expendable configuration, and pay someone half a billion to develop and build an orbital depot for your payload, and still come out hundreds of millions of dollars cheaper than a single SLS launch, despite putting more than three times as much equipment into orbit. And that's assuming, of course, that SLS continues to fly for decades, and the total development cost is amortized down to nothing. It's far more likely that Biden cancels the program, or it gets shut down by Congress in the next few years after a major failure. Thanks for not answering any of the 4 questions I put forth. You did use 'may' and 'assume' and 'hate' in your wording though. Nice to see you bring Biden in to your rant also. Since Musk dissed the dems on several levels and pulled out of California , that should really boost his immunity from getting cut out of the loop from .gov funding and regulation. Elon probably voted R and that isn't going to bode well when it comes to what is going to get neutered by the Biden admin. especially since SpaceX has been walking a fine line on the regulatory side... |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 11:56:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for not answering any of the 4 questions I put forth. You did use 'may' and 'assume' and 'hate' in your wording though. Nice to see you bring Biden in to your rant also. Since Musk dissed the dems on several levels and pulled out of California , that should really boost his immunity from getting cut out of the loop from .gov funding and regulation. Elon probably voted R and that isn't going to bode well when it comes to what is going to get neutered by the Biden admin. especially since SpaceX has been walking a fine line on the regulatory side... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your endless SpaceX hate is all the more laughable when, once again, SLS demonstrates the utter failure of oldspace to accomplish even the old and routine. Another green run *might* happen in two or three more months. SpaceX is managing to swap out engines and relight within two to three days, while bitching that they're still striving to get that down to hours. Hell, the extra development costs from the delay caused by today's failure, are likely to be roughly comparable to the ENTIRE cost to develop Falcon Heavy. The latter cost $0.5 billion to create, while so far SLS has cost at least $11.5 billion...and hasn't even managed a successful test firing. And for what? $150 million can get you a Falcon Heavy expended launch ordered up and delivered within a few months, delivering 70 tons to LEO. So $2.14 mil per ton of payload. In another year..or two...Block 1 may finally fly..and carry 95 tons to orbit. At an incremental unit cost of over $2 billion...or in other words, $21.05 mil per ton of payload...literally ten times more expensive. You could literally launch half a dozen Falcon Heavys in expendable configuration, and pay someone half a billion to develop and build an orbital depot for your payload, and still come out hundreds of millions of dollars cheaper than a single SLS launch, despite putting more than three times as much equipment into orbit. And that's assuming, of course, that SLS continues to fly for decades, and the total development cost is amortized down to nothing. It's far more likely that Biden cancels the program, or it gets shut down by Congress in the next few years after a major failure. Thanks for not answering any of the 4 questions I put forth. You did use 'may' and 'assume' and 'hate' in your wording though. Nice to see you bring Biden in to your rant also. Since Musk dissed the dems on several levels and pulled out of California , that should really boost his immunity from getting cut out of the loop from .gov funding and regulation. Elon probably voted R and that isn't going to bode well when it comes to what is going to get neutered by the Biden admin. especially since SpaceX has been walking a fine line on the regulatory side... SpaceX engines are a new design, what's SLS excuse... SpaceX has also tested it engines more times than SLS. That test yesterday was supposed to go 8mins and only made it to 1. SN8 yeah it crashed but what that gloried silo did prior to that was heads and shoulders above anything that SLS has done. SLS should beat Starship into space. It's not like it's a terribly new idea. If the goal was just to put it in Space and not return I would put money on SpaceX beating SLS, but SpaceX is trying to build a reusable vehicle |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 11:59:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SpaceX engines are a new design, what's SLS excuse... SpaceX has also tested it engines more times than SLS. That test yesterday was supposed to go 8mins and only made it to 1. SN8 yeah it crashed but what that gloried silo did prior to that was heads and shoulders above anything that SLS has done. SLS should beat Starship into space. It's not like it's a terribly new idea. If the goal was just to put it in Space and not return I would put money on SpaceX beating SLS, but SpaceX is trying to build a reusable vehicle SLS will probably end up purchasing engines from SpaceX (which were not available when the design was put to paper) once SpaceX get's the reliability issues with them sorted out. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:15:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SLS will probably end up purchasing engines from SpaceX (which were not available when the design was put to paper) once SpaceX get's the reliability issues with them sorted out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: SpaceX engines are a new design, what's SLS excuse... SpaceX has also tested it engines more times than SLS. That test yesterday was supposed to go 8mins and only made it to 1. SN8 yeah it crashed but what that gloried silo did prior to that was heads and shoulders above anything that SLS has done. SLS should beat Starship into space. It's not like it's a terribly new idea. If the goal was just to put it in Space and not return I would put money on SpaceX beating SLS, but SpaceX is trying to build a reusable vehicle SLS will probably end up purchasing engines from SpaceX (which were not available when the design was put to paper) once SpaceX get's the reliability issues with them sorted out. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:22:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what irritates me the most about all this. NASA can and has done some incredible things. But the way things are now. This ridiculous car crash of obsolete technologies, political obligations, contradictory goals and god knows what else.... Is unacceptable. The engines they tried to test today should be in museums. They were unacceptable when the Shuttle was in service. Having to be rebuilt after every flight and the fact that with this design they will simply be ditched in the ocean? NASA should be... Well they should be doing a lot of things. Personally I think they should be working on new generation deep space probes, observation satellites and finally getting the James Webb Telescope off the fucking ground. But here we are. Watching a failed test run of an antique engine cluster. Instead of having Lindsey Stirling dancing around the assembly building they should have performed this in front of a montage of all of NASAs shortcomings since 1975.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk42VHT-WtAQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you guys saw how ridiculously old and shitty and analog the aerojet/rockeydyne section of the HWIL was for SLS some of you would shit yourselves. At least the ones that have been in aerospace long enough lol. I'm still amazed they let me do firmware loads/changes into the core stage flight computers when I didn't even know how to program in XML before I got into that lab. That was a couple jobs ago now thank god. Those poor test engineers back at MSFC are gonna have the saddles tightened as they run through that run a few more times on ARTEMIS/MAESTRO and analyze the existing data. That lab was some of the coolest and most complicated hardware I ever got to work on in the most absofuckinglutely pants on head retarded management and leadership environment. That's what irritates me the most about all this. NASA can and has done some incredible things. But the way things are now. This ridiculous car crash of obsolete technologies, political obligations, contradictory goals and god knows what else.... Is unacceptable. The engines they tried to test today should be in museums. They were unacceptable when the Shuttle was in service. Having to be rebuilt after every flight and the fact that with this design they will simply be ditched in the ocean? NASA should be... Well they should be doing a lot of things. Personally I think they should be working on new generation deep space probes, observation satellites and finally getting the James Webb Telescope off the fucking ground. But here we are. Watching a failed test run of an antique engine cluster. Instead of having Lindsey Stirling dancing around the assembly building they should have performed this in front of a montage of all of NASAs shortcomings since 1975. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk42VHT-WtA |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:26:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL no. Do you know how much time that would take to redesign, integrate, and test new engines into that thing? Especially with the fact SLS has never really had jack shit for funding other than to keep a joint Program Office staffed? Never mind the fact that the tanks are sized for liquid hydrogen not liquid methane  |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:51:12 PM EDT
[#29]
I work with metals for a living and the volume of metal required to strap that monster down for a test fire is absolutely staggering.
It’s funny how you guys are choosing sides on the modern space race. You’ve lost the feeling behind that uncontrollable grin that stretches your lips when watching pure unadulterated power. Like the first time I sat in a muscle car and felt it flexing side to side at a light when feathering the gas... These are some of the most impressive machines human hands have ever built. Other than the crumbling republic, etc, it’s a wonderful time to be alive. (Haha) |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 1:38:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I work with metals for a living and the volume of metal required to strap that monster down for a test fire is absolutely staggering. It’s funny how you guys are choosing sides on the modern space race. You’ve lost the feeling behind that uncontrollable grin that stretches your lips when watching pure unadulterated power. Like the first time I sat in a muscle car and felt it flexing side to side at a light when feathering the gas... These are some of the most impressive machines human hands have ever built. Other than the crumbling republic, etc, it’s a wonderful time to be alive. (Haha) This actually gets into something I wanted to talk about in a little more detail. Watching the SN8 test flight I had the overarching feeling, right up until the last few seconds. That everything about this design just looked right. Watching this burn, when the propellant stopped flowing and everything froze over. All I could think was. "Oh ye gods, that must be a horrific strain on those components." Going from insanely hot to insanely cold in a couple heartbeats. Obviously methane and hydrogen are very different rocket fuels. But with currently available technologies. Methane and Kerosene seems like they are less of a strain on materials than having to deal with cryogenically cold liquid hydrogen. Methane and Kerosene propulsion seem like the immediate future of space travel. A possible... Blue collar approach. Using hydrogen seems like it requires the kind of care, resources and technical know how of a science experiment. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 1:41:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never mind the fact that the tanks are sized for liquid hydrogen not liquid methane So what is stopping the Musk team for building engines for SLS ? They aren't smart enough to adapt to the task , is that what you are saying ? |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 1:49:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what is stopping the Musk team for building engines for SLS ? They aren't smart enough to adapt to the task , is that what you are saying ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Never mind the fact that the tanks are sized for liquid hydrogen not liquid methane So what is stopping the Musk team for building engines for SLS ? They aren't smart enough to adapt to the task , is that what you are saying ? Why in the world would Musk build engines for SLS?  I’m not even sure what you are talking about. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 1:53:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why in the world would Musk build engines for SLS? I’m not even sure what you are talking about. He's a capitalist ??? IOW , money. Other than that , probably 1/2 of his design team took part in the SLS program and know it well. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 1:55:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what is stopping the Musk team for building engines for SLS ? They aren't smart enough to adapt to the task , is that what you are saying ? the sls is a system designed around one engine, you cant just change it to another. A new engine would be starting over. which, with the whole SLS being pointless with musks Starship existing is a waste of money. Starship would be 10x-20 times cheaper to orbit WITHOUT BEING landed. Its target launch cost is aimed at being 1000 times cheaper then SLS, which even if off by 10X will be 100 times cheaper. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:00:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Those 4 engines have flown cumulatively 25x's plus testing during shuttle program plus testing with new computers during this program in the test stand.
What has changed here? They are integrated with core stage now. It's fuel and control is from the core stage. The mission profile entered into the computer was specifically made for the green run. It more than likely had limitations set that would shut down or safe all 4 with any fault no matter what since this was a test with actual flight vehicle rather than a mockup or test stand. Even if it was something that an actual flight profile wouldn't consider shutting down the offending unit for. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:06:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They want to catch the booster... Its roughly twice the height of Starship..lolThis past year showed it is tough times in the commercial launch industry. SpaceX had 3? missions or so. The rest were Starlink launches. SpaceX launched ~42% of the world's tonnage to orbit last year. They also launched half the people, and in mass, numbers, and throughput terms built more satellites than the rest of the world put together last year. They are the 800lb gorilla of the space world now.  This year they'll probably beat the rest of the world put together. They will probably also beat 1980s USSR in tonnage terms this year too. They have a very full manifest this year. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:08:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's a capitalist ??? IOW , money. Other than that , probably 1/2 of his design team took part in the SLS program and know it well. He'd make a lot more money keeping his engineers working on Starship and Starlink vs tying them up on SLS engines. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:11:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So.... Are those engines cooled with liquid helium? Liquid nitrogen? They froze over PDQ once the test fire stopped. No wonder the Shuttle was so frigging expensive to fly. Rebuilding those engines? Liquid helium taps into the zero point energy field. So, if that is liquid helium and we are inducing quantum realm fluctuations to the equation... They are cooled by liquid hydrogen fuel before going into the preburners/combustion chamber (called regenerative cooling). This is how most rocket engines are cooled  Liquid hydrogen is barely above absolute zero. Very cold... |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:17:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's a capitalist ??? IOW , money. Other than that , probably 1/2 of his design team took part in the SLS program and know it well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why in the world would Musk build engines for SLS? I'm not even sure what you are talking about. He's a capitalist ??? IOW , money. Other than that , probably 1/2 of his design team took part in the SLS program and know it well. If you want another example of why you can't just replace engines like some redneck throwing a fox mustang 5.0l in his '73 F-150 go look at the threads where people can't grasp why we can't just throw some new bigger/different engines on the B-52. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:18:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what is stopping the Musk team for building engines for SLS ? They aren't smart enough to adapt to the task , is that what you are saying ? SLS will stagger along for about ten more years and fly a few early Artemis missions until the absurdity of it vs Starship becomes too much for pork to overcome. No one is going to put more good money into something that will be hopelessly obsolete by then. The best way to fix SLS is to shift its payloads over to Starship. That said, it’s not going away any time soon because pork. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:21:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SpaceX launched ~42% of the world's tonnage to orbit last year. They also launched half the people, and in mass, numbers, and throughput terms built more satellites than the rest of the world put together last year. They are the 800lb gorilla of the space world now. https://i.imgur.com/NtrDhhA.png This year they'll probably beat the rest of the world put together. They will probably also beat 1980s USSR in tonnage terms this year too. They have a very full manifest this year. hmm russia didnt have all that much tonnage left, and now they are losing all the ISS flights right? or will they still be doing some supplies runs? |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:24:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. If you want another example of why you can't just replace engines like some redneck throwing a fox mustang 5.0l in his '73 F-150 go look at the threads where people can't grasp why we can't just throw some new bigger/different engines on the B-52.  Attached FileOr actually, since we are talking about completely different fuels. Perhaps more like this?  Attached File
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:27:24 PM EDT
[#43]
I suspect this failure will mean they'll have to unstack the SRBs, which will probably in itself cause at least 6 months of delays...
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:29:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is thrust greater than 100% a thing? Why are proof loads a thing? |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:34:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: hmm russia didnt have all that much tonnage left, and now they are losing all the ISS flights right? or will they still be doing some supplies runs? The Russians have been coasting on Cold War era tech and components. They had some interesting designs in the early 90s. Now there is the suggestion that they might make an unlicensed knock off of the Falcon 9... Someday. They had their chance and fluffed it. Heck, the environmental support system they have on their ISS modules, Electron. Is a lost technology. I mean... They can't make new life support systems for any future proposed space stations. 
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:39:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: hmm russia didnt have all that much tonnage left, and now they are losing all the ISS flights right? or will they still be doing some supplies runs? Breakdown of Russian payloads:  "Engine Exports" includes the totals for the Atlas V and Antares based on an estimated share of the engines is for the manufacturing cost of the rocket. In short, the Russian space industry is going to get boned pretty soon. A majority of the world's payload to orbit in the cold war was (obsolete) battery-powered Soviet film-return spy satellites.  They were actually based on the Vostok human spacecraft, just instead of a person inside, they have a camera. They'd need to launch one per week just to have two on station at any one time, and they didn't have the capability of the US electro-optical KH-11 satellites that first launched in the mid-70s. It was kinda brute-forcing their way through obsolescence. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:46:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SLS will stagger along for about ten more years and fly a few early Artemis missions until the absurdity of it vs Starship becomes too much for pork to overcome. No one is going to put more good money into something that will be hopelessly obsolete by then. The best way to fix SLS is to shift its payloads over to Starship. That said, it’s not going away any time soon because pork. And how many years before Starship hauls a payload ? Once again , so far we have a glorified grain silo that flew to 40,000 feet and did a fancy maneuver and crashed and exploded. SpaceX is nowhere near building a complete Starship , nor a booster , nor getting one in to orbit any time soon. From the looks of things , SLS will be hauling the mail and very well may be a stopgap for years until SpaceX is ready to take over that task. With that being said , with the new political admin change , a new NASA admin change is coming along with it. It always does. Whoever that is will have to answer directly to Biden or Harris , which ever one of the 2 takes up that duty. NASA programs will survive to a degree , but contractors are going to face a massive shakedown and Musk will be at the top of the list. He's going to have to toe the line and take what he's told , otherwise he and his company will face dire consequences. Remember when Obama took over ? Wonder how SLS survived during that time period ? (somebody got the pork , SLS got the rinds) Elon Musk hates toeing the line , so the near future for SpaceX is going to be very interesting. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:50:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what is stopping the Musk team for building engines for SLS ? Most likely that they don't want to be like the big defense contractors - milking the government (i.e., taxpayers) for all that they can while pushing off results as far as they can. SpaceX would rather actually pursue getting shit done - as they have been doing quite well. You could not pay me any sum of money to ever go back to work in defense again. It is an absolute clusterfuck of the highest degree. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:57:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how many years before Starship hauls a payload ? Once again , so far we have a glorified grain silo that flew to 40,000 feet and did a fancy maneuver and crashed and exploded. SpaceX is nowhere near building a complete Starship , nor a booster , nor getting one in to orbit any time soon. From the looks of things , SLS will be hauling the mail and very well may be a stopgap for years until SpaceX is ready to take over that task. With that being said , with the new political admin change , a new NASA admin change is coming along with it. It always does. Whoever that is will have to answer directly to Biden or Harris , which ever one of the 2 takes up that duty. NASA programs will survive to a degree , but contractors are going to face a massive shakedown and Musk will be at the top of the list. He's going to have to toe the line and take what he's told , otherwise he and his company will face dire consequences. Remember when Obama took over ? Wonder how SLS survived during that time period ? (somebody got the pork , SLS got the rinds) Elon Musk hates toeing the line , so the near future for SpaceX is going to be very interesting. Starship will probably make it to orbit next year. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:58:35 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NASA programs will survive to a degree , but contractors are going to face a massive shakedown and Musk will be at the top of the list. It's getting very hard to justify that when SpaceX is the one doing shit and everybody else is either dragging things out or fucking up. The big boys try to deflect onto SpaceX because they - the big defense players - are in bed with the politicians, and have been for a long time. They don't like that an upstart has come along that actually wants to get shit done rather than milk customers for all that they possibly can. SpaceX is poised to be the one launching the majority of stuff to orbit for the entire world. As already posted previously, they were >40% of tonnage to orbit last year. It won't be long before they are >50%. All the while doing it cheaper than everybody else, too. It gets really hard to justify why you need extra scrutiny on them while the big boys more or less get a pass when they are, in actuality, the ones dominating the field. |
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