I assume a long antenna is still required to get distant/weak signals? Can you still run a 30+' wire into these handheld units?

For this purpose, I'm not sure I need anything particularly mobile, but battery power is still a plus. What is the best option for not only getting weak signals, but also scanning through them quickly? I assume there are thousands of channel possiblities?

OST

this

For local-5 mile comms, you need 2m/70cm.  VHF/UHF.  Tech level (entry) ticket.  

Depending on terrain, hand-held (HT) will get you there.

What freqs are gtg for info these days ?

I own an IC 706 but doesn't seem to transmit anymore , I need to dig out my old 756 and try it.

CountyComm has one on their website that is designed to coil up.  

https://countycomm.com/collections/radio/products/shortwave-coil-up-antenna

As @Ben knows, there are a lot of different ways to get alternate comms. For short range, intra-team comms, handhelds are fine but they don't reach very far usually. Also, it might be advantageous to get an itinerant license to allow you to use encryption that the ham bands don't allow. It's also possible to fairly inexpensively set up a poor-man's repeater using two Baofengs and an interface cable.

But, for longer range communications, you need HF radios. I have one of the Yaesu FT-891 radios mentioned myself. I have it mounted in a lightweight 4U rack that I can grab and go with that has a power supply, battery, tuner, and digital interface all right there. I also have a Yaesu ft-991A that does HF, VHF, and UHF and comes with a built-in digital interface for your computer. Other folks like the HF-only Icom 7300. I also have one of the older Yaesu FT-857D HF/VHF/UHF radios that I use in the Jeep with a Comet UHV-6 mobile antenna. I also have a digital interface for it to use with a laptop. BTW, I also have a Xeigu CS-108G+ that only puts out 20 watts. With that and that Comet UHV-6, I was able to talk from the south side of Puerto Rico to a guy on the outskirts of Atlanta while rolling down the highway. If you get any of these HF radios, make sure to get the MARS mod done on it in case you decide you want to participate in MARS or SHARES in the future. There are already groups that have been practicing regular across-the-country nets on HF, including Arfcom.

Long wire antennas and 100 watts of HF power will let you talk pretty well. But, when conditions are poor, certain digital modes like JS8Call are much better because they can pick out weaker signals via software. There's also programs like Winlink that lets you send e-mails via HF. Programs like FLdigi will let you communicate via dozens of different digital modes like the Olivia one we use on the Wednesday night Arfcom digital net.

Another suggestion I have is to make yourself a way to operate solely on battery and solar power. There have been many times when I haven't had good access to power, particularly when operating out in the middle of nowhere. I've got some folding solar panels, a solar charge controller, and LiFePO4 batteries that I can run 24/7 on my radios if I need to. (I can't run 24/7 for very long myself but my radios can.). If the communists decide to start playing games with the power grid, you need to be able to figure out what's going on and the only way to do that is to be able to run your radios some other way.

Also, I have one of these:



That lets me listen to everything from 10kHz to 2Ghz but only in chunks. Does great with the HF bands if you have a decent antenna hooked to it. But it's receive only. Pretty inexpensive, but functional. It's also really portable.

Also last thing I got from MTCradio.com said they had FT-891 "B-stock" (ie factory refurbs) for $528 but they may have sold out of them by now. You can also probably get a decent used one for about that price or less.)

I was going to say IC 718. Or even a more simple older radio if there is one.

Watched a video on the IC 7300.
It's complicated.

John has a long mustache...

Tag

My only fear is they would sit in the closet with the dozens and dozens of other stuff I've bought in similar threads

Ohh...  I like that.  I've been looking at QRP/Backpack kits for a while, never came across this however.

Someone else mentioned that it gives you the advantage of being able to practice legally and without HAM Fudds trying to triangulate you for cramping their style...until you're no longer able to do it legally anyway.  When that day comes, they know exactly where the people with the nice antennas live, because you already registered.  Just like with guns.  I'm not sure the tradeoff is worth it.  Plus, again, not many people have time to learn to do this right.  Quick and dirty seems more appropriate to buy time to "maybe" do it right eventually if truly necessary.

What's the point?  I don't understand how radio communication would benefit in any way.  

Perhaps someone might explain?  Once one understands the purpose and use it would be much easier to explore hardware and skilset requirements.

I can easily see how communications can make folks into targets.  Tracking communications is the primary way we catch "bad guys" right?

Well even if you choose to be a lawbreaker you might as well study the materials to learn principles and practice of RF operation and engineering.

Thanks for the recommendation Ben.  However, that link was blocked by my malwarebytes extension.

edit:  Found the transceiver on hamradio.com.

Stepping back from the big iglo question for a second and just look at the SHTF scenario.

If you look at the recent TN issue, cell service dropped for a tiny area.  Imagine if it was regional.  All of the east coast drops comms.  Suddenly just being about to receive comms and infor becomes very helpful.  Ham and HF require zero infrastructure.  Telephone, internet, cell and even your local FM radio stations rely on IP networks.

The single most important tool in any SHTF situation is information.

This is like deciding to learn how to shoot after the shit hits the fan.  You should save your money, and I don't mean to be a dick by saying that.  HF is not plug and play and without spending some time on it, it's really not worth messing with.  

same here. I have two baeofangs sitting here never used. sounds like theyre junk anyway

Of course.

They will work with the whip, but a long wire will help. Use an alligator clip or just twist it around the whip.

The recievers in this class of radio expect a weaker signal so you don't need to overkill the antenna size. Being farther away from noise is more important than length imo.

Both units have both an attached antenna as well as an antenna input jack for wire antennas. Both units run on batteries and have auto scan features. The PL-660 is much more capable in navigating channels, but it is also larger and a bit less portable.

They are not junk. I have two on right now listening in on the local police department and sheriffs department.  A few friends who live within a few miles each have a radio and we shoot the shit on them all the time.

They have a more sensitive receiver and many more filters and settings allowing you to better tune in weak stations and filter noise.

good post, thanks Harry

Licensing aside, there is no "quick and dirty" to HF comms. I could sit you down in front of $3k worth of gear set up and ready to go and you'd get exactly nowhere.

Not trying to be a dick or discouraging, but anyone looking to get into this needs to understand there is a learning curve. it ain't hard, but you're not going to figure it out in a weekend.

I think I'm going to buy one of those.  What else do I need for it?  Antennae, Power?

HF.  The laughing is for HF.

I just grabbed one of those CC handhelds.  Thanks for the recommendation.

You'll also need an antenna tuner.

I just added this one to my Amazon cart.  Is that appropriate?

Sometimes things like this, in places where things like this have been necessary, have happened in a disconnected, autonomous, cellular and only loosely connected fashion. Everybody can't, or even shouldn't, be communications heavy.  

Someday, sometimes, somewhere that HF radio and antenna is just something for the police, or government paramilitaries or army to look for when they are doing sweeps and kicking doors.

Can't be an individual, but even the IRA ditched "brigades" outside of Armagh.

Shit, this ain't an organization, it's just an idea.

You ain't necessarily gotta have an HF radio if a teammate does.

That's a vector network analyzer. It's used to characterize antennas, not tune them. You're looking for something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/LDG-Electronics-Z-817-Automatic-Memories/dp/B00K5ZSGHY/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=antenna+tuner&qid=1610168960&sr=8-8

We need an Arfcom numbers station.

8 7 8 7 8 7 8 7 8 7....

Nonsense. There are ham clubs and there is an Arfcom ham forum that is exceptionally helpful, especially to new hams. While HF isn't plug and play, it isn't rocket surgery either. Further, there are plenty of on-line sites like https://hamstudy.org that has helpful study guides and practice tests for the various levels of amateur radio license exams. You can also learn a lot from looking them over. There's some downloadable pdfs that have some good info. I think there's one from the USMC and one from the Army about how HF works, how to make a field-expedient antenna, what are the best frequencies for the time of day and time of year you're working with, etc.

ETA: Found the USMC one: USMC Radio Operators Handbook Note: no crayons required.

Not all of them, not all at once, and not all across the country.

This is a Vector Network Analyzer, not an antenna tuner. A VNA can be used to determine some of the parameters and efficiency of whatever antenna you're trying to optimize.

An antenna tuner is something like this: MFJ-939Y Antenna tuner that helps match your antenna to what the radio is expecting.

@jhov

Thanks.

That radio is only a 10W output, is that enough or should I just deal with the weight of the Icom IC-705, which has a nice backpack setup already and has functions like bluetooth, lan connectivity, etc.  Both radios have some of the same features, similar wattage, etc, but I'm completely unfamiliar with that little LAB599 TX-500 radio.  Not sure what I'm giving up to have something so small.

That was my reaction too.

I’m sure it’s been said, you guys that all ran out and bought UV5R’s and just threw them in a box or have them hanging one your gear looking cool......your fucked if your not using them and learning how to program them. And in an emergency with everything else happening you might as well be holding a rock because it’ll be useless to you.

Ok where’s the links to buy?
$100? $200?
ETA: lol you guys are talking thousands

Does these small type of radios work for listening?

Any recommendations on the easiest  transceiver for listening purposes only? Been mulling this over, and all I will ever likely care about is listening. But, I like the idea of having the ability to take that step into transmission in the future.

I don't have the ability to dive into this headfirst right now. But I'd love something that would allow me to easily scan the airways in the meantime. Any thoughts?

There's some really interesting information in this thread.  For the HAM's that are chiming in, you guys are doing great until you start in with the acronyms, then you're going right over people's heads.  

So for a moron like myself who only has uhf hand helds and marine radios along with cb radios, in a shtf moment who the hell am I going to talk to?

I assume we are all assuming cell and data transmission is down along with internet and hard line phones?

Are we also out of gas and electricity and digging up our guns to bug out?  What is the Scenario that would be playing out where it would be necessary for me to communicate via high frequency radio?

Beofangs are cheep VHS/UHS redios.  They tend to be a bit harder to program than better units.  The main issue is VHS/UHS has a fairly short range without using repeaters.  Sometimes not much better than old school kids walkie talkies.  The problem is 3 fold.  First, handhelds usually have tiny antennas - so there is some range to be had with upgrading that.  The second issue is that their antenna are essentially only about 5' above the earth.  VHS/UHS are line of sight.  Even with a better gain antenna, LOS from 5' is shit.  Put the antenna on a mast or tower, and it gets better.  Talk to another on a mast or tower - well maybe you will get to the point the power is an issue.  That is why repeaters help - a repeater 300' on a tower will help range, on a mountain top - a LOT.

Now if you go to a mobile unit, you go from 5 watts to 100 watts.  If you are talking to a tower, you might get some actual decent range (especially if you are connected to an antenna on a mast.  But if you want real range, you have to go to HF, as it will reflect off the ionosphere and los goes away-sometimes.  But that is the hobby of HF - atmospheric conditions are everything.

---
the phrases VHF/UHF/HF refer the wavelengths of the radio waves.  UHF is .1-1m (maybe), VHF is 1m-10m.  HF is 10m-100m.  Of course the larger the wavelength in general the bigger the antenna is necessary to be efficient.  Wavelengths have harmonics.  So while you don't need a 10m antenna to use that wavelength, something 1/4 wave or 1/2 wave can work (abet probably not as efficiently).  Now all the wavelengths are not used, so iirc the bands used in VHF/UHF are like 30cm, 70cm, 1m, and 1.25m.  Without looking it up, I honestly don't recall if 6m is HF or VHF - but 6m can reflect on the ionosphere (but is generally not available on handhelds).  I suspect some mobiles can do 6m and some even 10m, but more often than not VHF/UHF radios do not do HF bands (and most HF do not do VHF/UHF).  I suspect it is a combination of really needing separate antenna and probably separate electronics as well - the few that do, price goes up, and they generally don't do either as well as dedicated units.

My mobile unit is a do everything - simply because it can double as a base unit.  My desktop unit is HF only.  They also make a few higher end desktop VHF/UHF radios - but those are not all that cheep.  I think it is far more common for people just to use a moderately priced mobile for that job, and a better HF radio.

The CountryComm GP-5 listed above is listen only, well reviewed and under $100 shipped.

Many HF transceivers come with built-in antenna tuners, like the IC-7300.

I'm probably screwing up terminology. I'm wondering if there is a unit capable of transmission, that is user friendly for listening purposes. Basically something that I can easily use as a normal receiver for now, but also use to communicate if/when I ever decide to take that step.