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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:06:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Money laundering scheme, imho. That or it can be a sound financial move to sell God in hard economic times. Especially if your brand is light, fluffy, charismatic and wholly inclusive. That strict hellfire and brimstone finger pointing stuff will out a preacher in the poorhouse. Walmart Super Center church is bank. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:07:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Do they have a coffee bar?
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:08:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: hey OP I have read through the thread and I see you keep dropping F-bombs. How about since you claim you are a Christian that you follow scripture? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4%3A29&version=NASB "Let no [a]unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification [b]according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear." https://biblehub.com/niv/ephesians/5.htm "Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving." |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:13:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They built a new high school here for 1,500 students, cost was $90 million. A high school is a no-frills building for teaching, same as a church. A mega church building for a few million seems like a deal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A million dollars really isn't that much any more. I bet you have neighborhoods full of single family homes valued around half a million dollars each. My little 3 bed 2 bath 1300 sf home on a 1/8th acre is appraised at 400k. They built a new high school here for 1,500 students, cost was $90 million. A high school is a no-frills building for teaching, same as a church. A mega church building for a few million seems like a deal. A local church built four walls and AC. It was still $1.2 million. Nothing overly fancy. Especially compared to today’s mega church’s. Parking lot, retention pond, AC, septic, big bathrooms for services, ... stuff adds up really quick. And really, the $1.2 is only $80 a sq ft. In relation, to my house addition... at $250 per sq ft, that seems like a good deal. A $2-3 million dollar building doesn’t buy you a ton. Building new construction commercial is extremely expensive (I’m a GC with three subcontractor sub companies). And Boomer, today’s dollar isn’t what it was when you were in high school. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:21:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Theres no grasping here, but you have the agenda here so feel free to explore it. Its a safe space. The facts are, this and most church/school complexes are on the same parcel, run under the same authority and often in a contiguous building. One of the local synagogues has one of the nicest natatoriums my kids ever competed in - including some college facilities. Jewish Centers since early last century combined the Synagogue on the worship floor with rec facilities on lower like pools with locker rooms, snack bars and limited service cafes, bowling alleys, gymnasiums, banquet facilities, dance rooms, billiards - all under a single roofs on multiple floors. Many churches have similar "amenities" - although they tend to be spread out over a complex. Lately many churches have built or taken over remote (off site) recreation facilities as municipalities get out of that game - pools, sports areas, deck hockey, even ice rinks and golf course, though those are rare. Very few are merely worship chapels and almost all have some kind of community facility. I've dealt with all kinds when congregations are seeking to move or leverage their holdings. They're like any other organization in that respect. Its not at all uncommon, so I'm unsure your hostility at the concept. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: An attached school? lol. Talk about grasping at straws... Theres no grasping here, but you have the agenda here so feel free to explore it. Its a safe space. The facts are, this and most church/school complexes are on the same parcel, run under the same authority and often in a contiguous building. One of the local synagogues has one of the nicest natatoriums my kids ever competed in - including some college facilities. Jewish Centers since early last century combined the Synagogue on the worship floor with rec facilities on lower like pools with locker rooms, snack bars and limited service cafes, bowling alleys, gymnasiums, banquet facilities, dance rooms, billiards - all under a single roofs on multiple floors. Many churches have similar "amenities" - although they tend to be spread out over a complex. Lately many churches have built or taken over remote (off site) recreation facilities as municipalities get out of that game - pools, sports areas, deck hockey, even ice rinks and golf course, though those are rare. Very few are merely worship chapels and almost all have some kind of community facility. I've dealt with all kinds when congregations are seeking to move or leverage their holdings. They're like any other organization in that respect. Its not at all uncommon, so I'm unsure your hostility at the concept. I suggest you reread my posts - I started by saying I only had experience with Catholics. I understand other churches sometimes do the things you say. And I only have one agenda, which was to have the OP back up his claim about Catholics. I pay a small fortune to have my kids go to Catholic school (which is attached to our church). Even as the check writer, I have no more access to that building or it's amenities as you do for your local public highschool. Despite sharing grounds with the church, it is a completely separate entity. The schools are not considered, or treated as, an amenity of the church, nor have I ever heard of such a thing being the case. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:27:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Catholic Charities is probably the biggest “refugee” support network in the country and they get government money to do it....That’s as denominatiinal as it gets. https://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/our-ministry/immigration-refugee-services/ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's code for them bringing-in every H2B and "refugee" that they can.....Sure as shit.  Catholic Charities is probably the biggest “refugee” support network in the country and they get government money to do it....That’s as denominatiinal as it gets. https://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/our-ministry/immigration-refugee-services/ And that's actually not even the best reason for Never giving money to Catholic Charities. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:36:58 PM EDT
[#7]
I have a problem with these kinds of churches (in general) but not for the same reason as the OP.
The trouble is that generally these churches are shallow as a puddle theologically and spiritually. Often they are led by charismatic (not Pentecostal type charisma but the general use of the word) and “cool” but also the cunning businessman who runs things with an iron fist. Neither of those two personality sides meet in public. But those in private see it and sometimes end up with a very bad taste in their mouths about Christianity. Or occasionally that’ll leak over and congregants see it and have the same experience. They end up leaving the faith altogether. Then again if we consider the parable of the sowers maybe many who fall away never really believed in the first place. They feel justified in their expensive everything and justify it as serving God, though often they mean “a god” and that god is their ego. You will never convince them otherwise by any logic to do differently. They may even call you Judas since he used a similar expression about “what about the poor” when he wanted the money for themselves, this of course is projection which would be humorous were it not so sad. It’s sad but it’s as old as the Bible itself. Jesus speaks of it. Paul and the other disciples speak of it. They will get their just rewards. If you’re a Christian OP then walk and convey that which Christ did and talk with those people and they may come around to seeing what’s wrong with those churches too. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:37:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  This |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:41:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suggest you reread my posts - I started by saying I only had experience with Catholics. I understand other churches sometimes do the things you say. And I only have one agenda, which was to have the OP back up his claim about Catholics. I pay a small fortune to have my kids go to Catholic school (which is attached to our church). Even as the check writer, I have no more access to that building or it's amenities as you do for your local public highschool. Despite sharing grounds with the church, it is a completely separate entity. The schools are not considered, or treated as, an amenity of the church, nor have I ever heard of such a thing being the case. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: An attached school? lol. Talk about grasping at straws... Theres no grasping here, but you have the agenda here so feel free to explore it. Its a safe space. The facts are, this and most church/school complexes are on the same parcel, run under the same authority and often in a contiguous building. One of the local synagogues has one of the nicest natatoriums my kids ever competed in - including some college facilities. Jewish Centers since early last century combined the Synagogue on the worship floor with rec facilities on lower like pools with locker rooms, snack bars and limited service cafes, bowling alleys, gymnasiums, banquet facilities, dance rooms, billiards - all under a single roofs on multiple floors. Many churches have similar "amenities" - although they tend to be spread out over a complex. Lately many churches have built or taken over remote (off site) recreation facilities as municipalities get out of that game - pools, sports areas, deck hockey, even ice rinks and golf course, though those are rare. Very few are merely worship chapels and almost all have some kind of community facility. I've dealt with all kinds when congregations are seeking to move or leverage their holdings. They're like any other organization in that respect. Its not at all uncommon, so I'm unsure your hostility at the concept. I suggest you reread my posts - I started by saying I only had experience with Catholics. I understand other churches sometimes do the things you say. And I only have one agenda, which was to have the OP back up his claim about Catholics. I pay a small fortune to have my kids go to Catholic school (which is attached to our church). Even as the check writer, I have no more access to that building or it's amenities as you do for your local public highschool. Despite sharing grounds with the church, it is a completely separate entity. The schools are not considered, or treated as, an amenity of the church, nor have I ever heard of such a thing being the case. Yeah, the most I've seen an actual Parish have is a hall, which is usually the church basement. That gets used for religious ed, small gatherings, fish fries, etc. My church has a decent sized one with a kitchen that lets the KoC do charity dinners in the main area, but it's really just a big multi purpose space. It mostly gets used for pre-school. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:48:08 PM EDT
[#10]
OP, note that, early on in the Bible, God literally demands the Israelites build him a banging temple. While, no, Christians don't have the exact same centrality of one location forged into the Faith....we still have built enormous and elaborate structures in which to assemble and sanctify. Not just the Catholics (and High Church Protestants). The Orthodox have been doing it literally since the Romans stopped decapitating Christians on sight. The "four walls and no carpets!!!" Reformed version was a Johnny Come Lately development, and didn't last as a widespread movement.
Also, modern building code will run up the construction bill, especially if you have more than 30 people in your congregation. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:49:32 PM EDT
[#11]
This bastard is visible for miles. And yes, that spire is lit up at night. Wooddale Baptist, Eden Prarie, MN
 ETA: Hell, the organ probably can house three or four families.  |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:49:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $60k per pupil per year for base construction costs. They did the same thing here: built these HUGE schools for very small classes. Half of the budgets were for sports arenas and "the arts", which now sit empty due to lack of justification to have/maintain a $1.5M indoor hockey arena when they can hardly get enough students to build teams. Build 4 football fields, but only use 1 at a time? Sure! Build 4 baseball fields so little league doesn't have to make a schedule to share? Sure! Because it WASN'T THEIR MONEY they were spending!!!!! And besides, it was all "for the children". But I homeschool, and I still pay that item on my property taxes... But that subject is due a much longer rant for another time  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They built a new high school here for 1,500 students, cost was $90 million. A high school is a no-frills building for teaching, same as a church. A mega church building for a few million seems like a deal. They did the same thing here: built these HUGE schools for very small classes. Half of the budgets were for sports arenas and "the arts", which now sit empty due to lack of justification to have/maintain a $1.5M indoor hockey arena when they can hardly get enough students to build teams. Build 4 football fields, but only use 1 at a time? Sure! Build 4 baseball fields so little league doesn't have to make a schedule to share? Sure! Because it WASN'T THEIR MONEY they were spending!!!!! And besides, it was all "for the children". But I homeschool, and I still pay that item on my property taxes... But that subject is due a much longer rant for another time The school board superintendent initially told everyone that the cost was $80 million but he changed the plan to reduce the costs and got down to $50 million. Then he asked for a property tax increase to fund it. After it was all done it is $90 million and surprise he is already building a second high school which was never talked about until this year. Now he is promising that he can have it built without raising our taxes any more. I bet that is a lie too. Schools and taxes would be a separate thread for sure but I wanted to relate the building size and cost to this thread. New construction isn't cheap. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:57:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Every penny spent on building that church ultimately paid for labor. All raw materials are free. All you have to do is make the steel to make the equipment to dig it out, to haul it, process it, deliver it, and construct it.
So a bunch of people decided to create a bunch of jobs to build a building.....which will have employees who will get paid, pay taxes, and enrich the community. That's great. It's jobs. You may not like the jobs created or the use of the building, but it was a jobs project. I hope it isn't one of those Joel Osteen, false-Gospel churches. But if it is, it will still mean jobs paid for by willing contributors. More power to them. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:58:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The tax free doing tax free things and what not.. donations help too. Except that everyone on the payroll will pay taxes until death. Also, money spent on supplies will go to businesses run by people who will get paid and pay taxes. What part of EVERY DOLLAR GETS TAXED ALL THE TIME do people not understand? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 3:03:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are misconstruing the points. I'm not looking to sell stuff to make money. I'm saying the money they WASTE on these worship-of-man centers, who claim to be Christian, could have been used to actually do Christian things. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That money could have gone toward actually helping people Judas very words when he demanded that they sell the scented oil Mary was to annoint Jesus with. Good thing Solomon didn't heed your advice or he would have been defying God. I'm not looking to sell stuff to make money. I'm saying the money they WASTE on these worship-of-man centers, who claim to be Christian, could have been used to actually do Christian things. Money Laundry! |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 3:16:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP is bitching about how another religion spends their own money?!?!?!? No government funds involved, none of his money, just theirs. Supreme Karen. Nice churches bring in more people. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 3:29:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://i0.wp.com/beginningandend.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Bishop_IV_HILLIARD_TRANSPORTATION_SEED-e1371919474633.jpg?resize=550%2C990&ssl=1 When Pastor needs to raise 50K to get new blades on the church helicopter. Do you honestly believe this is representative of all Christian churches in America? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 3:34:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suggest you reread my posts - I started by saying I only had experience with Catholics. I understand other churches sometimes do the things you say. And I only have one agenda, which was to have the OP back up his claim about Catholics. I pay a small fortune to have my kids go to Catholic school (which is attached to our church). Even as the check writer, I have no more access to that building or it's amenities as you do for your local public highschool. Despite sharing grounds with the church, it is a completely separate entity. The schools are not considered, or treated as, an amenity of the church, nor have I ever heard of such a thing being the case. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: An attached school? lol. Talk about grasping at straws... Theres no grasping here, but you have the agenda here so feel free to explore it. Its a safe space. The facts are, this and most church/school complexes are on the same parcel, run under the same authority and often in a contiguous building. One of the local synagogues has one of the nicest natatoriums my kids ever competed in - including some college facilities. Jewish Centers since early last century combined the Synagogue on the worship floor with rec facilities on lower like pools with locker rooms, snack bars and limited service cafes, bowling alleys, gymnasiums, banquet facilities, dance rooms, billiards - all under a single roofs on multiple floors. Many churches have similar "amenities" - although they tend to be spread out over a complex. Lately many churches have built or taken over remote (off site) recreation facilities as municipalities get out of that game - pools, sports areas, deck hockey, even ice rinks and golf course, though those are rare. Very few are merely worship chapels and almost all have some kind of community facility. I've dealt with all kinds when congregations are seeking to move or leverage their holdings. They're like any other organization in that respect. Its not at all uncommon, so I'm unsure your hostility at the concept. I suggest you reread my posts - I started by saying I only had experience with Catholics. I understand other churches sometimes do the things you say. And I only have one agenda, which was to have the OP back up his claim about Catholics. I pay a small fortune to have my kids go to Catholic school (which is attached to our church). Even as the check writer, I have no more access to that building or it's amenities as you do for your local public highschool. Despite sharing grounds with the church, it is a completely separate entity. The schools are not considered, or treated as, an amenity of the church, nor have I ever heard of such a thing being the case. That's fair insofar as access - in that Catholics have access in much the same way many other churches do. My statements were more general, although appears interpreted differently - and if you look back yourself were never addressing your post particularly. It is amazing to me to see how many churches are becoming more the social nexus' as many large Catholic churches in urban areas were in times past. Having been raised in a Catholic family where we've had many roles in Parish and Diocesan funding, I'll point out: the Pastor is always the supervisory entity for the entire Parish, for taxation and legal purposes the Bishop owns all Diocesan Parcels and Ecclesiastical property, and is the responsible Head of Enterprise of the Juridic Person - everything rolls up, but the Bishop and Diocese are one. Funding is separate, but there's a difference without a distinction apart from the access aspect you misinterpreted. But my comments were observational not critical, tho the Church has a multitude of other issues. Merely reality, these facilities exist as Diocesan or Pontifical property and many are incredibly nice in more affluent Diocese. You entirely missed that my comment was generally supportive rather than derisive as almost all of this is pointed toward community actions and support, in carrying out the continued work of Jesus Christ on Earth, officially.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 3:41:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Because that is how God rolls? He who has the most bitch'n crib gets salvation? I will say that I'm Christian. I've seen things too coincidental for it all to be by accident. I believe. That being said, the modern day Catholics, Lutherans and anybody else who builds these humungo ultra-expensive "places of worship" are missing the entire point. That money could have gone toward actually helping people. Yes, having a building makes sense. No, you don't need the monstrosities they build. Fucking disgusts me they call themselves Godly people (the organizers of these churches of profit that is, the people who they lure in less so). 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 3:51:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's fair insofar as access - in that Catholics have access in much the same way many other churches do. My statements were more general, although appears interpreted differently. Its amazing to me to see how many churches are becoming more the social nexus' as many large Catholic churches in urban areas were in times past. Having been raised in a Catholic family where we've had many roles in Parish and Diocesan funding, I'll point out: the Pastor is always the supervisory entity for the entire Parish, for taxation and legal purposes the Bishop owns all Diocesan Parcels and Ecclesiastical property, and is the responsible Head of Enterprise of the Juridic Person - everything rolls up, but the Bishop and Diocese are one. Funding is separate, but there's a difference without a distinction apart from the access aspect you misinterpreted. But my comments were observational not critical, tho the Church has a multitude of other issues. Merely reality, these facilities exist as Diocesan or Pontifical property and many are incredibly nice in more affluent Diocese. You entirely missed that my comment was generally supportive rather than derisive as almost all of this is pointed toward community actions and support, in carrying out the continued work of Jesus Christ on Earth, officially. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/14291/cathedral_catholic_high_school_facilitie-1503706.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: An attached school? lol. Talk about grasping at straws... Theres no grasping here, but you have the agenda here so feel free to explore it. Its a safe space. The facts are, this and most church/school complexes are on the same parcel, run under the same authority and often in a contiguous building. One of the local synagogues has one of the nicest natatoriums my kids ever competed in - including some college facilities. Jewish Centers since early last century combined the Synagogue on the worship floor with rec facilities on lower like pools with locker rooms, snack bars and limited service cafes, bowling alleys, gymnasiums, banquet facilities, dance rooms, billiards - all under a single roofs on multiple floors. Many churches have similar "amenities" - although they tend to be spread out over a complex. Lately many churches have built or taken over remote (off site) recreation facilities as municipalities get out of that game - pools, sports areas, deck hockey, even ice rinks and golf course, though those are rare. Very few are merely worship chapels and almost all have some kind of community facility. I've dealt with all kinds when congregations are seeking to move or leverage their holdings. They're like any other organization in that respect. Its not at all uncommon, so I'm unsure your hostility at the concept. I suggest you reread my posts - I started by saying I only had experience with Catholics. I understand other churches sometimes do the things you say. And I only have one agenda, which was to have the OP back up his claim about Catholics. I pay a small fortune to have my kids go to Catholic school (which is attached to our church). Even as the check writer, I have no more access to that building or it's amenities as you do for your local public highschool. Despite sharing grounds with the church, it is a completely separate entity. The schools are not considered, or treated as, an amenity of the church, nor have I ever heard of such a thing being the case. That's fair insofar as access - in that Catholics have access in much the same way many other churches do. My statements were more general, although appears interpreted differently. Its amazing to me to see how many churches are becoming more the social nexus' as many large Catholic churches in urban areas were in times past. Having been raised in a Catholic family where we've had many roles in Parish and Diocesan funding, I'll point out: the Pastor is always the supervisory entity for the entire Parish, for taxation and legal purposes the Bishop owns all Diocesan Parcels and Ecclesiastical property, and is the responsible Head of Enterprise of the Juridic Person - everything rolls up, but the Bishop and Diocese are one. Funding is separate, but there's a difference without a distinction apart from the access aspect you misinterpreted. But my comments were observational not critical, tho the Church has a multitude of other issues. Merely reality, these facilities exist as Diocesan or Pontifical property and many are incredibly nice in more affluent Diocese. You entirely missed that my comment was generally supportive rather than derisive as almost all of this is pointed toward community actions and support, in carrying out the continued work of Jesus Christ on Earth, officially. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/14291/cathedral_catholic_high_school_facilitie-1503706.JPG Yep, I think we were just talking past one another. I was simply replying to the OP's assertion that there are large Catholic churches that act as glorified, Christian themed country clubs. That's a ridiculous suggestion, as you know having been raised Catholic. Even the largest congregations with the most beautiful buildings are pretty much only used for worship, with the occasional fish-fry or after-service coffee thrown in. There is no Catholic swimming, golf or sauna on Sundays or any other day. In fact, if there was ever a religion accused of purposely being not-fun, it would be Catholics. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 3:53:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their money, their church, their lives and their problem, and God is their judge not you. That's not how it works anymore. Democrats and liberals are our judges now. Social justice is the new fanatical religion. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 4:10:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, I think we were just talking past one another. I was simply replying to the OP's assertion that there are large Catholic churches that act as glorified, Christian themed country clubs. That's a ridiculous suggestion, as you know having been raised Catholic. Even the largest congregations with the most beautiful buildings are pretty much only used for worship, with the occasional fish-fry or after-service coffee thrown in. There is no Catholic swimming, golf or sauna on Sundays or any other day. In fact, if there was ever a religion accused of purposely being not-fun, it would be Catholics. You've never been to our Casino night or any Parish festival Now Lutherans...Lukefisk...ok I cant say furtherMy cousins held various responsible financial positions in the Church - in a large Diocese and now in Rome. Unlike what most people think, and often see, there's much the Church does well, by people who are true believers, following Christ's example. This guy had an honest conversion in his 30s - he has an Ivy MBA and was groomed to take over his Mothers pretty extensive business. He ended his engagement, walked away from it all and entered the seminary, with his goal being a parish priest. That didn't last long once the Church discovered his background. He's the kinda guy you'd want running your finances. Still there's abuse and corruption, as with all large organizations, but mostly shit gets done and towards good purposes, just not as much as many of us would like. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 4:17:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From their website: We are Christ centered, God loving and Spirit-filled. We are contemporary in our worship. We are non-denominational. I answered, "a very profitable one." |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 4:26:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are misconstruing the points. I'm not looking to sell stuff to make money. I'm saying the money they WASTE on these worship-of-man centers, who claim to be Christian, could have been used to actually do Christian things. How much of your money do you spend on "Christian things"? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 4:26:37 PM EDT
[#25]
News flash buildings cost money. Parking lots alone can run in the 6 figures. Now add in building codes and regulations that have capacity limits, bathroom requirements, fire codes, water runoff mitigation, HVAC, land acquisition, and a myriad of other costs that you have to factor in, separate from the base building and those alone can run over a million for a modest size church.
I guess CANCEL CULTURE even exists here when we start seeing members decrying church buildings and joining the woke brigade. Often these same people who denounce where church money goes and calls for charity instead, are themselves not charitable. Nor do the volunteer substantial amounts of their own time in their community to address the issues they think churches should. It is easy to cast stones but be the change you want. If one claims to be a Christian and sees an outreach area lacking than take it on yourself. Go to your church and let them know your plan for that outreach. If everyone who saw fit to say what they think others should do, actually got up and met that need, we would see most of those needs met. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 4:32:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This bastard is visible for miles. And yes, that spire is lit up at night. Wooddale Baptist, Eden Prarie, MN https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/94/59/bc9459c4a47612a7fa8ad82b5211c87b.png ETA: Hell, the organ probably can house three or four families. https://www.pipeorganlist.com/Organ_Webpages/Eden_Prairie,_Wooddale_Church,_Visser-Rowland_sp_files/eden-prairie_wooddale_visser-roland_lg.jpg I bet the organ ran $400,000-$600,000 new. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 4:42:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that's actually not even the best reason for Never giving money to Catholic Charities. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's code for them bringing-in every H2B and "refugee" that they can.....Sure as shit. Catholic Charities is probably the biggest “refugee” support network in the country and they get government money to do it....That’s as denominatiinal as it gets. https://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/our-ministry/immigration-refugee-services/ And that's actually not even the best reason for Never giving money to Catholic Charities. I don't know if they (CC) does the same thing but it's a huge kick-back scam for the nondenominational churches. They get the bodies and get kick-backs from the businesses that hire them. They will get a mess of them in and off they go to to wherever they were paid to send them. You never see them at the churches that sponsored them. Suits me just fine but someone in the Shenandoah Valley is getting them a raft of Hispanics. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 5:32:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, what you're saying is that rather than buying something expensive that cost, say, 300 days wages, you should give that money to the poor? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Jesus tells people: care for the poor and less fortunate. So, what you're saying is that rather than buying something expensive that cost, say, 300 days wages, you should give that money to the poor? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 5:42:53 PM EDT
[#29]
You left out Baptist along with the rest of the delusional.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 6:25:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, I think we were just talking past one another. I was simply replying to the OP's assertion that there are large Catholic churches that act as glorified, Christian themed country clubs. That's a ridiculous suggestion, as you know having been raised Catholic. Even the largest congregations with the most beautiful buildings are pretty much only used for worship, with the occasional fish-fry or after-service coffee thrown in. There is no Catholic swimming, golf or sauna on Sundays or any other day. In fact, if there was ever a religion accused of purposely being not-fun, it would be Catholics. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: An attached school? lol. Talk about grasping at straws... Theres no grasping here, but you have the agenda here so feel free to explore it. Its a safe space. The facts are, this and most church/school complexes are on the same parcel, run under the same authority and often in a contiguous building. One of the local synagogues has one of the nicest natatoriums my kids ever competed in - including some college facilities. Jewish Centers since early last century combined the Synagogue on the worship floor with rec facilities on lower like pools with locker rooms, snack bars and limited service cafes, bowling alleys, gymnasiums, banquet facilities, dance rooms, billiards - all under a single roofs on multiple floors. Many churches have similar "amenities" - although they tend to be spread out over a complex. Lately many churches have built or taken over remote (off site) recreation facilities as municipalities get out of that game - pools, sports areas, deck hockey, even ice rinks and golf course, though those are rare. Very few are merely worship chapels and almost all have some kind of community facility. I've dealt with all kinds when congregations are seeking to move or leverage their holdings. They're like any other organization in that respect. Its not at all uncommon, so I'm unsure your hostility at the concept. I suggest you reread my posts - I started by saying I only had experience with Catholics. I understand other churches sometimes do the things you say. And I only have one agenda, which was to have the OP back up his claim about Catholics. I pay a small fortune to have my kids go to Catholic school (which is attached to our church). Even as the check writer, I have no more access to that building or it's amenities as you do for your local public highschool. Despite sharing grounds with the church, it is a completely separate entity. The schools are not considered, or treated as, an amenity of the church, nor have I ever heard of such a thing being the case. That's fair insofar as access - in that Catholics have access in much the same way many other churches do. My statements were more general, although appears interpreted differently. Its amazing to me to see how many churches are becoming more the social nexus' as many large Catholic churches in urban areas were in times past. Having been raised in a Catholic family where we've had many roles in Parish and Diocesan funding, I'll point out: the Pastor is always the supervisory entity for the entire Parish, for taxation and legal purposes the Bishop owns all Diocesan Parcels and Ecclesiastical property, and is the responsible Head of Enterprise of the Juridic Person - everything rolls up, but the Bishop and Diocese are one. Funding is separate, but there's a difference without a distinction apart from the access aspect you misinterpreted. But my comments were observational not critical, tho the Church has a multitude of other issues. Merely reality, these facilities exist as Diocesan or Pontifical property and many are incredibly nice in more affluent Diocese. You entirely missed that my comment was generally supportive rather than derisive as almost all of this is pointed toward community actions and support, in carrying out the continued work of Jesus Christ on Earth, officially. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/14291/cathedral_catholic_high_school_facilitie-1503706.JPG Yep, I think we were just talking past one another. I was simply replying to the OP's assertion that there are large Catholic churches that act as glorified, Christian themed country clubs. That's a ridiculous suggestion, as you know having been raised Catholic. Even the largest congregations with the most beautiful buildings are pretty much only used for worship, with the occasional fish-fry or after-service coffee thrown in. There is no Catholic swimming, golf or sauna on Sundays or any other day. In fact, if there was ever a religion accused of purposely being not-fun, it would be Catholics. Uh...Catholics really know how to party. You need to check out a Catholic festival in the north end of Boston or any other Little Italy type neighborhood. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 6:27:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should never trust anyone with the "I was born feet first" haircut. Quote HistoryQuoted: You should never trust anyone with the "I was born feet first" haircut. 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 8:14:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are misconstruing the points. I'm not looking to sell stuff to make money. I'm saying the money they WASTE on these worship-of-man centers, who claim to be Christian, could have been used to actually do Christian things. Like the long-awaited far-over-due Reconquest of Constantinople! Amirite? Who is with me? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:27:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Was Marty byrd somehow involved in the construction
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:34:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh...Catholics really know how to party. You need to check out a Catholic festival in the north end of Boston or any other Little Italy type neighborhood. I was talking about the church itself, not Catholics. Everyone is ready to toss a few back after mass  |
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Posted: 7/15/2020 3:26:48 AM EDT
[#35]
god willed it bro.
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Posted: 7/15/2020 4:37:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like the long-awaited far-over-due Reconquest of Constantinople! Amirite? Who is with me? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You are misconstruing the points. I'm not looking to sell stuff to make money. I'm saying the money they WASTE on these worship-of-man centers, who claim to be Christian, could have been used to actually do Christian things. Like the long-awaited far-over-due Reconquest of Constantinople! Amirite? Who is with me? Constantinople's gone. There is only Istanbul now:( |
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Posted: 7/15/2020 4:48:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is “they”? 
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Posted: 7/15/2020 6:37:31 AM EDT
[#38]
I need to start a religion.
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Posted: 7/15/2020 9:41:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like the long-awaited far-over-due Reconquest of Constantinople! Amirite? Who is with me? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You are misconstruing the points. I'm not looking to sell stuff to make money. I'm saying the money they WASTE on these worship-of-man centers, who claim to be Christian, could have been used to actually do Christian things. Like the long-awaited far-over-due Reconquest of Constantinople! Amirite? Who is with me? 
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Posted: 7/15/2020 9:45:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Judas very words when he demanded that they sell the scented oil Mary was to annoint Jesus with. Good thing Solomon didn't heed your advice or he would have been defying God. Quote HistoryQuoted: That money could have gone toward actually helping people Judas very words when he demanded that they sell the scented oil Mary was to annoint Jesus with. Good thing Solomon didn't heed your advice or he would have been defying God. Yup. |
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Posted: 7/15/2020 9:46:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Notre Dame should be sold and turned into a sweatshop, and the money given to the poor.
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Posted: 7/15/2020 9:47:14 AM EDT
[#42]
It’s good to be the king(of kings).
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Posted: 7/15/2020 9:48:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Constantinople's gone. There is only Istanbul now:( Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You are misconstruing the points. I'm not looking to sell stuff to make money. I'm saying the money they WASTE on these worship-of-man centers, who claim to be Christian, could have been used to actually do Christian things. Like the long-awaited far-over-due Reconquest of Constantinople! Amirite? Who is with me? Constantinople's gone. There is only Istanbul now:( Why did Constantinople get the works? |
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Posted: 7/15/2020 9:56:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Ah yes. Six flags over Jesus. I’m sure mega churches are all committed to fire and brimstone vs Joel Osteen good feels preaching.
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Posted: 7/15/2020 9:58:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: I will say that I'm Christian. I've seen things too coincidental for it all to be by accident. I believe. That being said, the modern day Catholics, Lutherans and anybody else who builds these humungo ultra-expensive "places of worship" are missing the entire point. That money could have gone toward actually helping people. Yes, having a building makes sense. No, you don't need the monstrosities they build. Fucking disgusts me they call themselves Godly people (the organizers of these churches of profit that is, the people who they lure in less so). First off, those "Catholics, Lutherans " etc are also Christians. In fact, Catholics are the the first ones. Secondly, you make it seem like you are non-denominational, and yet you have never seen those mega-churches that those people use? Get over yourself. |
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Posted: 7/15/2020 10:03:02 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Because that is how God rolls? He who has the most bitch'n crib gets salvation? I will say that I'm Christian. I've seen things too coincidental for it all to be by accident. I believe. That being said, the modern day Catholics, Lutherans and anybody else who builds these humungo ultra-expensive "places of worship" are missing the entire point. That money could have gone toward actually helping people. Yes, having a building makes sense. No, you don't need the monstrosities they build. Fucking disgusts me they call themselves Godly people (the organizers of these churches of profit that is, the people who they lure in less so). I believe there is a God, grew up in church, and saw so many acts of selfishness and lying that I cannot trust any religion anymore. People are the problem and I'm not going to deal with them any longer, so no church time for me. |
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Posted: 7/15/2020 10:06:40 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was talking about the church itself, not Catholics. Everyone is ready to toss a few back after mass Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Uh...Catholics really know how to party. You need to check out a Catholic festival in the north end of Boston or any other Little Italy type neighborhood. I was talking about the church itself, not Catholics. Everyone is ready to toss a few back after mass True, I've walked into a Paulist "modern" mass - looked at the drum set and amps - . Not the norm for a Catholic Mass, nor was the venue - immediately thought was I was in wrong place. The Celebrant actually strapped on a bass. How people worship concerns me not - but still find "Rock Concert" churches odd. To my surprise I'm a traditionalist. |
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Posted: 7/15/2020 10:17:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What Lutherans are building mega churches? Most congregations are just trying to stay alive right now. This. I don't see this being a problem with traditional congregations. The non-denominational "look at how great we are" "churches" are a entirely different story. |
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Posted: 7/15/2020 10:58:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was talking about the church itself, not Catholics. Everyone is ready to toss a few back after mass Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Uh...Catholics really know how to party. You need to check out a Catholic festival in the north end of Boston or any other Little Italy type neighborhood. I was talking about the church itself, not Catholics. Everyone is ready to toss a few back after mass the first miracle from Jesus was to change water to wine at a wedding party. |
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Posted: 7/15/2020 11:26:45 AM EDT
[#50]
Yeah baffles me. Ive got a 95 year old grandmother who is trying to will all of her assets to one of these mega churches. Granted its her money she can do what she wants with it but she used to laugh at those churches when she was not old and crazy. I swear its almost a cult mentality at some of those places.
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