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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:04:40 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The police should be refusing orders to arrest people for self defense in cases like this. If they can routinely let obviously criminal illegal immigrants go free, they can do the same for innocent citizens who simply protected themselves and property. If the new standard is to arrest innocent people for defending their lives from communist mobs then the obvious response should be a massive escalation of force when faced with threat by violent communist racists. If your life will be ruined simply by defending yourself in a restrained and rational manner, why employ restraint? And that is why the police are not your friend |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:05:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: We do this one yet? Couple Who Defended Home: ‘Rumor Is That We Are Going To Be Indicted Shortly’ Mark McCloskey, the homeowner who defended his St. Louis home recently from a large mob of demonstrators, told Fox News on Monday that he excepts to be “indicted shortly.” *** McCloskey said that the officers did not believe that he and his wife did anything wrong but were being forced to carry out the order by St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kimberly Gardner, a Democrat, who claimed that the McCloskeys defending their private property was a “violent assault.” *** “My attorney advised me not to be on the show tonight because the rumor is that we are going to be indicted shortly,” McCloskey said. “Having said that, this is the same circuit attorney that released 35 of the protesters that torched and looted in downtown St. Louis but now she wants to indict me. This is the Left's clown world where it is a crime to defend yourself against a criminal, criminals are now a protected class, we have to be getting near the bottom of the rabbit hole, it can't be that much deeper can it? This is what years of Soros installing local DA's, Judges, etc. Gets you. It will get worse. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:05:56 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy shit yes. It’s unbelievable to me honestly. If this wasn’t a time to brandish and scream “get off my lawn” within the full legal provisions to do so, then guns just as well be banned because you can’t use them to defend yourself anyway. The only thing I'll be negative on with these 2 is the wives trigger discipline.....she needs to get some firearms training. I hope they get clear of any charges in this, then turn around and sue everyone involved on the other side. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:05:58 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like they will get their wish. And lose the mansion in the process, for legal defense bills. A good lawyer is what, $450/hour? Even if they win, they lose. that is the whole point - to prosecute them, with an unlikely conviction. The point is to bankrupt them. The prosecution will in effect burn their mansion when they run into $400,000 legal defense fees and will be forced to sell to get a smaller, normal house. Their lives are wrecked. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am going to add that to my favorite quote list. Looks like they will get their wish. And lose the mansion in the process, for legal defense bills. A good lawyer is what, $450/hour? Even if they win, they lose. that is the whole point - to prosecute them, with an unlikely conviction. The point is to bankrupt them. The prosecution will in effect burn their mansion when they run into $400,000 legal defense fees and will be forced to sell to get a smaller, normal house. Their lives are wrecked. $600+ an hour in some cases. Bet you the lawyer representing them will collect minimal dollars. Maybe 10k or so to keep the irs happy. I bet you they enjoy a really nice vacation however. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:06:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: We do this one yet? Couple Who Defended Home: ‘Rumor Is That We Are Going To Be Indicted Shortly’ Mark McCloskey, the homeowner who defended his St. Louis home recently from a large mob of demonstrators, told Fox News on Monday that he excepts to be “indicted shortly.” *** McCloskey said that the officers did not believe that he and his wife did anything wrong but were being forced to carry out the order by St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kimberly Gardner, a Democrat, who claimed that the McCloskeys defending their private property was a “violent assault.” *** “My attorney advised me not to be on the show tonight because the rumor is that we are going to be indicted shortly,” McCloskey said. “Having said that, this is the same circuit attorney that released 35 of the protesters that torched and looted in downtown St. Louis but now she wants to indict me. This is the Left's clown world where it is a crime to defend yourself against a criminal, criminals are now a protected class, we have to be getting near the bottom of the rabbit hole, it can't be that much deeper can it? This is what years of Soros installing local DA's, Judges, etc. Gets you. It will get worse. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:07:10 AM EDT
[#6]
That communist shit of a DA should be hauled out and COC then COC.
In fact this should happen to all liberal DAs that are ignoring real crime to attack people who defended themselves. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:07:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just so we're all on the same page... Crimes: Shooting a leftist who is beating you with a deadly weapon. Shooting a leftist assaulting you and trying to pull you from your vehicle. Holding a gun while defending self and property from rabid leftists. Not crimes: Rioting, looting, arson, vandalism, or insurrection when done for or under the guise of a leftist cause. Don't forget they are currently looking for legal advice for decriminalizing the assault and murder of police officers. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:07:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Would this be any different if instead of the woman pointing the gun at the protestors they had just sat on their porch with the guns in hand?
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:07:57 AM EDT
[#9]
I’d hit the DA with an abuse of office/official oppression charge. Politically motivated.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:09:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bingo. Pointing guns at trespassers walking on your lawn, particularly when you have a giant lawn and they are far from your dwelling, is not generally going to be sobering with strong legal ground yo justify. In this case they ticked all the boxes to give a politically motivated DA grounds to burnish their credentials. I pretty much assumed their would charges from day one. In my eyes, the wife should catch a charge along the lines of brandishing and the husband gets nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wouldn't shock me. They don't seem to have a grasp on self-defense laws and pointing guns at people. Bingo. Pointing guns at trespassers walking on your lawn, particularly when you have a giant lawn and they are far from your dwelling, is not generally going to be sobering with strong legal ground yo justify. In this case they ticked all the boxes to give a politically motivated DA grounds to burnish their credentials. I pretty much assumed their would charges from day one. In my eyes, the wife should catch a charge along the lines of brandishing and the husband gets nothing. Fuck that. Clown World. This is clearly self defense. A large mob chanted they were going to burn down their home, and was about to beat and or murder them. They were clearly threatened, and any reasonable person would be in fear of their lives. They were not just simple trespassers. It was a violent mob. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:09:32 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except that they could have acted better and given themselves a much better self defense case. There was no reason to come out of the house. None. They abandoned defensive positions to isolate themselves in the open. They were fucking rich and had insurance. Whatever damage was done to their house would have been taken care of. Then they could have sued the shit out of the city and state for not doing anything. Castle doctrine implies that there is justification to defend property and no duty to retreat....christ you lefties are dense. And what is it with the jealousy over income. Life isn’t a zero sum game, go fucking create your fortune instead of bitching about other’s circumstances. Is there no percieved value in protecting what you worked for over letting it get destroyed and hping insurance can restore or replace it? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:10:44 AM EDT
[#12]
indicted for being white, wealthy, and not kissing BLM feet.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:13:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget rape and murder. And also rape. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:14:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People have the right to protect their property and self. There was a clear threat here. I don't understand what people are thinking otherwise? -protesters walk through gate, it's not damaged in the beginning, they're passing by on the sidewalk street. The gate is frequently left unlocked and people who don't own property there frequently walk through. They have no idea who the McCloskeys are -protesters are walking by, McCloskey's have a history of getting into arguments over the gate area. There's a lawsuit over who owns it-they claim they have gained exclusive control of the gate from their neighbors, they've pulled guns on people over who owns the gate before -McCloskeys come out and yell that protesters are on "their" property. Protesters yell back "fuck you whitey! And fuck your little dog too" etc -McCloskeys go back inside and get guns And come back out. Wife walks up and points her "pistol she knows doesn't work [wink wink]" at protesters while arguing continues. Protesters also get onto lawn area that McCloskeys do legally own for sure and threaten them -protesters wander off out the other end of the private street (not sure if that was gated at time) after they break the gate near McCloskey house (or came back the same way?) |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:15:24 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $600+ an hour in some cases. Bet you the lawyer representing them will collect minimal dollars. Maybe 10k or so to keep the irs happy. I bet you they enjoy a really nice vacation however. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am going to add that to my favorite quote list. Looks like they will get their wish. And lose the mansion in the process, for legal defense bills. A good lawyer is what, $450/hour? Even if they win, they lose. that is the whole point - to prosecute them, with an unlikely conviction. The point is to bankrupt them. The prosecution will in effect burn their mansion when they run into $400,000 legal defense fees and will be forced to sell to get a smaller, normal house. Their lives are wrecked. $600+ an hour in some cases. Bet you the lawyer representing them will collect minimal dollars. Maybe 10k or so to keep the irs happy. I bet you they enjoy a really nice vacation however. A truly Tier 1 lawyer is much more than that. I employ six or seven, at last count, for various purposes. My cheapest runs about $215/hr and the most expensive is a federal contract specialist at Latham-Watkins who gets a tidy $1330/hr. And he's worth it. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:15:51 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And also rape. Now that you mention it, that's a cumulative total of twice on the rape. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:17:35 AM EDT
[#17]
BLM = Marxist Terrorists. More background on DA: Soros-Funded St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner Refuses to Charge Killer of 7-Year-Old Child Despite Suspect’s Confession
The St. Louis Police Officers Association, the union that represents city police, has labeled her policies a “criminal empowerment agenda.” |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:18:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is politically motivated. However my suspicion is -protesters walk through gate, it's not damaged in the beginning, they're passing by on the sidewalk street. The gate is frequently left unlocked and people who don't own property there frequently walk through. They have no idea who the McCloskeys are -protesters are walking by, McCloskey's have a history of getting into arguments over the gate area. There's a lawsuit over who owns it-they claim they have gained exclusive control of the gate from their neighbors, they've pulled guns on people over who owns the gate before -McCloskeys come out and yell that protesters are on "their" property. Protesters yell back "fuck you whitey! And fuck your little dog too" etc -McCloskeys go back inside and get guns And come back out. Wife walks up and points her "pistol she knows doesn't work [wink wink]" at protesters while arguing continues. Protesters also get onto lawn area that McCloskeys do legally own for sure and threaten them -protesters wander off out the other end of the private street (not sure if that was gated at time) after they break the gate near McCloskey house (or came back the same way?) Given the amounts of lawbreaking by the mob compared to the McCloskeys going after the people brandishing firearms instead of the rioters seems a wee bit myopic. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:19:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A truly Tier 1 lawyer is much more than that. I employ six or seven, at last count, for various purposes. My cheapest runs about $215/hr and the most expensive is a federal contract specialist at Latham-Watkins who gets a tidy $1330/hr. And he's worth it. They likely know attorneys who will take their case pro bono just to fuck the DA. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:19:11 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A truly Tier 1 lawyer is much more than that. I employ six or seven, at last count, for various purposes. My cheapest runs about $215/hr and the most expensive is a federal contract specialist at Latham-Watkins who gets a tidy $1330/hr. And he's worth it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am going to add that to my favorite quote list. Looks like they will get their wish. And lose the mansion in the process, for legal defense bills. A good lawyer is what, $450/hour? Even if they win, they lose. that is the whole point - to prosecute them, with an unlikely conviction. The point is to bankrupt them. The prosecution will in effect burn their mansion when they run into $400,000 legal defense fees and will be forced to sell to get a smaller, normal house. Their lives are wrecked. $600+ an hour in some cases. Bet you the lawyer representing them will collect minimal dollars. Maybe 10k or so to keep the irs happy. I bet you they enjoy a really nice vacation however. A truly Tier 1 lawyer is much more than that. I employ six or seven, at last count, for various purposes. My cheapest runs about $215/hr and the most expensive is a federal contract specialist at Latham-Watkins who gets a tidy $1330/hr. And he's worth it. I live in the cheapest place in America to live. So I’m a bit skewed. When the median income here is 24k a year, $600 is a lot lol. The most we ever paid was $1200 an hour. And that was for the Mopar bankruptcy. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:19:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BLM = Marxist Terrorists. More background on DA: Soros-Funded St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner Refuses to Charge Killer of 7-Year-Old Child Despite Suspect’s Confession link They still voluntarily work for her so their words are kinda pointless. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:20:59 AM EDT
[#22]
That cunt can indict a ham sandwich. Doesn't mean it will go anywhere. Should have been a non-starter but she is a liberal so she does liberal things.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:21:43 AM EDT
[#23]
Kim Gardner should be fired for going against the law she swore to uphold.
She should also be charged with abuse of office for using her position to perpetrate a hate crime against the citizens for lawfully protecting themselves on the basis that they were white! |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:22:05 AM EDT
[#24]
The legal right to self defense is going the way of the dodo bird. Just like Europe.
Unless you are defending yourself against attacks on the chosen ideology of the left. It starts in the cities.. But it will spread out slowly until it becomes normal precedent. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:23:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i dont blame them for wanting to defend their home / standing up to the crowd, but id not have done it the way they did it. walking out to sit on the porch and cleaning a rifle with a second loaded rifle leaning against the wall, while the wife shot video of the protestors while calling 911, would have accomplished the same thing. or having a rifle conceiled under a blanket on your knees as you drink your coffee. protestor. " whats under that blanket? "  home owner.. " fuck around and find out" protestors light a molotov, or try to attack you, and you shoot them with wife getting it all on video, they are kind of fucked. its for this reason im installing a security / camera system soon, so i can have proof of what actually happened on my property, vs what someone else claimed happened. its hard to refute video proof, proving you acted legally to actual threats, its also useful for prosecuting people who threaten you, tresspass, etc.. they might still have charged you, but it would have been a lot harder to prove intent to threaten, sitting and calmly cleaning your rifle, or sipping coffee with a conceiled rifle vs waiving guns around, pointing them at the crowd and screaming threats at them. they SHOULD have been able to start shooting tresspassers as soon as they ignored warnings to leave, IMHO, as property rights should be absolute in my opinion, and the right to defend them absolute, and someone breaking the law should have no legal recourse or ability to sue... but unfortunately thats not the world we live in today. people video everything, and plenty of bleeding heart, politically motivated government agents are more than willing to ruin your life, even when your in the right legally. what might get you praise in the news in one area, might get you life in prison in another area, optics are always important IMHO, and you had best try to have good optics in your favor if shit goes sideways. a 60 year old man running around outraged, waving a gun around, and screaming threats will not get nearly as much compassion in the media / court proceedings as a 60 year old man appearing meek , feeble and disabled, who draws a weapon in fear for his life at the last minute as a horde of angry people decend on him on his own property after asking them to leave for example. or the elderly feable wife shooting them from a window as they attack her unarmed husband. Long, but correct. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:24:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The governor can pardon this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Full presidential pardon would make a nice statement. The governor can pardon this. Either one is, at best, solving a symptom. What is needed is to solve the problem: A rabid leftist racist DA, not enforcing the law, but enforcing her personal agenda. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:24:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Castle doctrine implies that there is justification to defend property and no duty to retreat....christ you lefties are dense. And what is it with the jealousy over income. Life isn’t a zero sum game, go fucking create your fortune instead of bitching about other’s circumstances. Is there no percieved value in protecting what you worked for over letting it get destroyed and hping insurance can restore or replace it? Not to mention, what if the mob started lobbing Molotov cocktails into the windows while the couple were still inside. Fire catches materials in the house, they become overcome by smoke and flames and that's that. Castle Doctrine is quite clear.....Who gives a shit how rich or poor the victims were? God Damn I hate class warfare horseshit!! |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:29:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Long, but correct. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: i dont blame them for wanting to defend their home / standing up to the crowd, but id not have done it the way they did it. walking out to sit on the porch and cleaning a rifle with a second loaded rifle leaning against the wall, while the wife shot video of the protestors while calling 911, would have accomplished the same thing. or having a rifle conceiled under a blanket on your knees as you drink your coffee. protestor. " whats under that blanket? " home owner.. " fuck around and find out" protestors light a molotov, or try to attack you, and you shoot them with wife getting it all on video, they are kind of fucked. its for this reason im installing a security / camera system soon, so i can have proof of what actually happened on my property, vs what someone else claimed happened. its hard to refute video proof, proving you acted legally to actual threats, its also useful for prosecuting people who threaten you, tresspass, etc.. they might still have charged you, but it would have been a lot harder to prove intent to threaten, sitting and calmly cleaning your rifle, or sipping coffee with a conceiled rifle vs waiving guns around, pointing them at the crowd and screaming threats at them. they SHOULD have been able to start shooting tresspassers as soon as they ignored warnings to leave, IMHO, as property rights should be absolute in my opinion, and the right to defend them absolute, and someone breaking the law should have no legal recourse or ability to sue... but unfortunately thats not the world we live in today. people video everything, and plenty of bleeding heart, politically motivated government agents are more than willing to ruin your life, even when your in the right legally. what might get you praise in the news in one area, might get you life in prison in another area, optics are always important IMHO, and you had best try to have good optics in your favor if shit goes sideways. a 60 year old man running around outraged, waving a gun around, and screaming threats will not get nearly as much compassion in the media / court proceedings as a 60 year old man appearing meek , feeble and disabled, who draws a weapon in fear for his life at the last minute as a horde of angry people decend on him on his own property after asking them to leave for example. or the elderly feable wife shooting them from a window as they attack her unarmed husband. Long, but correct. 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:29:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there will STILL be cops willing to go to their house and arrest them. THAT'S the fucking problem here. Nailed it |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:30:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only problem here is that anyone anywhere actually has a problem with what they did. I said this in another thread. If that wasn’t a clear situation on when to use 2nd amendment rights, then I don’t know what is. People can sit back and criticize their handling of guns, and back seat quarterback what they should or shouldn’t have done, but the fact is you don’t know what your reaction is going to be when a mob is outside your front door. This is no different than being surround med by people climbing in your car. But you know, many people here, and many people in general believe you have to wait until you’ve been shot. Had your head beat in, been pulled from your car, or are sitting inside of your burning house before you can actually take action. They certainly prevented the angry mob from burning down and looting their house. They certainly prevented a home invasion. The DA has actually put them in greater danger as have more than half of the law enforcement agencies in the country by showing “protestors” you can do whatever you want, and take whatever you want, because they will protect the “protestors” not the victims. It’s like bizarro-world out there. Seriously? We are more worried about gun handling, and who’s CCW technique follows some rule book of engagement, when you have 25 angry people on your front lawn who want to beat you up and take your stuff and there is any question that you should have the right to scream get off my lawn with some help by a rifle barrel? WTF!!!! Why even own fucking guns!!!! This is GD, we specialize in eating our own. Plus there's a bunch of apparent agitators embedded with us |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:31:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the commies had killed the McCloskey's I wonder if the DA would have arrested any of them? WHITE LIVES DON'T MATTER. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:31:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we’ve moved into the “sending messages” phase, then circuit attorney Kimberly Gardner should come home to the smoking basement where her house used to stand. We already failed to make statements when symbols were being attacked. We're at the "making examples" phase, now. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:32:13 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given the amounts of lawbreaking by the mob compared to the McCloskeys going after the people brandishing firearms instead of the rioters seems a wee bit myopic. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:32:39 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if you cant read between the lines, i cant help you. your peaceful until its time to use force, showing your armed is sometimes useful to deescalate, sometimes its not. iv shown i was armed several times and it descalated the situation and kept me from harm. i would not have done so in front of a horde of people all filming everything however. the guy could have had the rifle slung, pointing at the ground across his chest, hand on the grip, it accomplishes the same thing, and harder to claim your " threatening" anyone. the wife pointing and waiving her gun around at everyone not so much. it could be easily argued she was guilty of reckless endangerment for example, against a " peaceful protest". you can argue all you want about defending your property, but there are DEFINATELY better ways to go about it, and worse ways, to claim there is not is completely ignoring the legal system, and the politicized country we live in today, and prosecutors eager to put a notch in their social justice belt by sending you to prison if possible, or bankrupt you trying to, take away your rights to keep and bear arms forever thru a conviction etc.. you can be completely in the right, and lose everything and go to prison, and completely in the wrong and come out like a saint, the recent news proves it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: i dont blame them for wanting to defend their home / standing up to the crowd, but id not have done it the way they did it. walking out to sit on the porch and cleaning a rifle with a second loaded rifle leaning against the wall, while the wife shot video of the protestors while calling 911, would have accomplished the same thing. or having a rifle conceiled under a blanket on your knees as you drink your coffee. protestor. " whats under that blanket? " home owner.. " fuck around and find out" protestors light a molotov, or try to attack you, and you shoot them with wife getting it all on video, they are kind of fucked. its for this reason im installing a security / camera system soon, so i can have proof of what actually happened on my property, vs what someone else claimed happened. its hard to refute video proof, proving you acted legally to actual threats, its also useful for prosecuting people who threaten you, tresspass, etc.. they might still have charged you, but it would have been a lot harder to prove intent to threaten, sitting and calmly cleaning your rifle, or sipping coffee with a conceiled rifle vs waiving guns around, pointing them at the crowd and screaming threats at them. they SHOULD have been able to start shooting tresspassers as soon as they ignored warnings to leave, IMHO, as property rights should be absolute in my opinion, and the right to defend them absolute, and someone breaking the law should have no legal recourse or ability to sue... but unfortunately thats not the world we live in today. people video everything, and plenty of bleeding heart, politically motivated government agents are more than willing to ruin your life, even when your in the right legally. what might get you praise in the news in one area, might get you life in prison in another area, optics are always important IMHO, and you had best try to have good optics in your favor if shit goes sideways. a 60 year old man running around outraged, waving a gun around, and screaming threats will not get nearly as much compassion in the media / court proceedings as a 60 year old man appearing meek , feeble and disabled, who draws a weapon in fear for his life at the last minute as a horde of angry people decend on him on his own property after asking them to leave for example. or the elderly feable wife shooting them from a window as they attack her unarmed husband. OK, so you're cool with violent, destructive goons roaming across your property so long as they don't burn anything. if you cant read between the lines, i cant help you. your peaceful until its time to use force, showing your armed is sometimes useful to deescalate, sometimes its not. iv shown i was armed several times and it descalated the situation and kept me from harm. i would not have done so in front of a horde of people all filming everything however. the guy could have had the rifle slung, pointing at the ground across his chest, hand on the grip, it accomplishes the same thing, and harder to claim your " threatening" anyone. the wife pointing and waiving her gun around at everyone not so much. it could be easily argued she was guilty of reckless endangerment for example, against a " peaceful protest". you can argue all you want about defending your property, but there are DEFINATELY better ways to go about it, and worse ways, to claim there is not is completely ignoring the legal system, and the politicized country we live in today, and prosecutors eager to put a notch in their social justice belt by sending you to prison if possible, or bankrupt you trying to, take away your rights to keep and bear arms forever thru a conviction etc.. you can be completely in the right, and lose everything and go to prison, and completely in the wrong and come out like a saint, the recent news proves it. He could have used a less threatening lever action and revolver, too. 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:33:35 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This can't be said enough. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You guys have gotta stand by these folks. You may not love everything about them, but they are the example being made to keep you in line. This can't be said enough. If you disagree with this, you need to check yourself. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:33:40 AM EDT
[#36]
These people need to use the Dr. Ossian Sweet defense.
Ossian Sweet fought an uphill battle buying a home as a black man. He was forced to overpay for the home, and when he got in. Mob came after him. He shot one of them and was charged with murder and exonerated for the shooting. http://www.blackbottomarchives.com/blackhistory/2015/5/18/a-legacy-of-housing-discrimination |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:35:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Will be an interesting one to watch.
Him being a well-funded lawyer (And maybe not exactly the worlds most noble, nor our best'est of friends; based on some of the posts I've seen here). Vs a Cultural Revolution level DA who is the very definition of the problem the nation is having right now. It will be a show to watch this one play out. Normally tyrants like the DA like going after easy pray; this one maybe won't be so easy. And this guy is likely very much getting Red-pilled right now. Welcome To the Party Pal! |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:35:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what years of Soros installing local DA's, Judges, etc. Gets you. It will get worse. It really is a great way to defund and demoralize your enemies. Selectively prosecute wealthy/powerful people on the other side for marginal stuff that, normally, wouldn't result in charges - and certainly not against people who think the right way. It takes those people out of the fight, puts them on the defensive, reduces their wealth and power, and sends a message to other similarly situated people that they'd better shut up and step aside. And the best part is that you have an unlimited budget to do it, and you have nearly absolute immunity. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:36:08 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably the most fucked up thing about this is the hoard would have probably just kept walking by yelling through their mega phones black lives matter if the couple stayed inside.  If they'd actually fucked with the mayor's residence, I assure you the whole neighborhood would have gone up. Now whether they were just bluffing is a question for a different thread, but any violence that day would not have been contained to a single property. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:37:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except that they could have acted better and given themselves a much better self defense case. There was no reason to come out of the house. None. They abandoned defensive positions to isolate themselves in the open. They were fucking rich and had insurance. Whatever damage was done to their house would have been taken care of. Then they could have sued the shit out of the city and state for not doing anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The old stand by still applies. I would rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6. Except that they could have acted better and given themselves a much better self defense case. There was no reason to come out of the house. None. They abandoned defensive positions to isolate themselves in the open. They were fucking rich and had insurance. Whatever damage was done to their house would have been taken care of. Then they could have sued the shit out of the city and state for not doing anything. Pathetic and shameful post. Let insurance handle it Let the government handle it Let the mobs roam uninhibited Pathetic. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:39:17 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: part of self defense is mentally gaming things, thinking about your plans if XX happens, planning how you will react if XX happens, how your family should react etc. arfcom loves to screech about " get some training", well guess what. mentally gaming what you will do is probably 80% of training, actually shooting your weapon, and being successful with your weapon is the last 20% of self defense IMHO. the military runs on talking about and thinking about whats coming, and planning on how to react to events, actually putting foot to ass a much smaller part of it. the same goes for the police, self defense, etc. i give high praise for these people trying to protect their property, and im not criticizing their balls to do so, im just saying there are better ways to accomplish the same thing, and behavior your lawyer will thank you for when you go to trial, and behavior your lawyer will curse you for. if you want to run out the front door waiving a gun, pointing it at anyone and everyone and screaming like a maniac, sure, have at it, just dont be surprised if you wind up getting prosecuted when its all said and done for something or the other, as the list of things they can charge you with is pretty extensive. It worked, didn't it? They left almost immediately. And peacefully, even. How much more damage would those goons have done if he'd sheltered in place, before he was forced to respond? Yeah yeah, insurance & whatever... |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:42:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is politically motivated. However my suspicion is -protesters walk through gate, it's not damaged in the beginning, they're passing by on the sidewalk street. The gate is frequently left unlocked and people who don't own property there frequently walk through. They have no idea who the McCloskeys are -protesters are walking by, McCloskey's have a history of getting into arguments over the gate area. There's a lawsuit over who owns it-they claim they have gained exclusive control of the gate from their neighbors, they've pulled guns on people over who owns the gate before -McCloskeys come out and yell that protesters are on "their" property. Protesters yell back "fuck you whitey! And fuck your little dog too" etc -McCloskeys go back inside and get guns And come back out. Wife walks up and points her "pistol she knows doesn't work [wink wink]" at protesters while arguing continues. Protesters also get onto lawn area that McCloskeys do legally own for sure and threaten them -protesters wander off out the other end of the private street (not sure if that was gated at time) after they break the gate near McCloskey house (or came back the same way?) A mob of ANTIFA and BLM types break into your private neighborhood and say things like that aggressively and threateningly when you merely tell them to get off of your property and this DA says getting a firearm to make sure they don't advance, etc., is a crime!!??
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:44:15 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were fucking rich and had insurance. Whatever damage was done to their house would have been taken care of. Then they could have sued the shit out of the city and state for not doing anything. Ah, the "That's what insurance is for" bullshit lib mayors are telling looted or destroyed business owners. Ignoring the fact that many policies will not cover damages and loss incurred under declaration of civil unrest. Insurance will cover your medical expenses if you're grievously assaulted. So why bother with any form of self defense? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:45:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bingo. Pointing guns at trespassers walking on your lawn, particularly when you have a giant lawn and they are far from your dwelling, is not generally going to be sobering with strong legal ground yo justify. In this case they ticked all the boxes to give a politically motivated DA grounds to burnish their credentials. I pretty much assumed their would charges from day one. In my eyes, the wife should catch a charge along the lines of brandishing and the husband gets nothing. Wifey didn't have a functional gun, apparently... |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:45:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pathetic and shameful post. Let insurance handle it Let the government handle it Let the mobs roam uninhibited Pathetic. Rich people shouldn't defend themselves or their property because they have more money than most. Think about that line of reasoning. Pathetic is right. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:46:33 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of this monday morning quarterbacking going on here is ridiculous. It was 300+ vs 2. The fact that the discussion ignores that fact and is focusing on details is missing the forest for a tree. No, it's telling, is what it is. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:46:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mhm. I think the situation called for a Gatling gun, myself.  And I still don't see how it would be illegal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All of this monday morning quarterbacking going on here is ridiculous. It was 300+ vs 2. The fact that the discussion ignores that fact and is focusing on details is missing the forest for a tree. Mhm. I think the situation called for a Gatling gun, myself. And I still don't see how it would be illegal. FEED ME THAT BELT, MANDRAKE! |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:47:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One thing is for use if they create a legal precedent where these people actually go to prison for defending their home we are all screwed. And this is how gun control will succeed. You may not actually go to prison, but who can withstand the financial impact of a court battle with the government? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:47:19 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is politically motivated. However my suspicion is -protesters walk through gate, it's not damaged in the beginning, they're passing by on the sidewalk street. The gate is frequently left unlocked and people who don't own property there frequently walk through. They have no idea who the McCloskeys are -protesters are walking by, McCloskey's have a history of getting into arguments over the gate area. There's a lawsuit over who owns it-they claim they have gained exclusive control of the gate from their neighbors, they've pulled guns on people over who owns the gate before -McCloskeys come out and yell that protesters are on "their" property. Protesters yell back "fuck you whitey! And fuck your little dog too" etc -McCloskeys go back inside and get guns And come back out. Wife walks up and points her "pistol she knows doesn't work [wink wink]" at protesters while arguing continues. Protesters also get onto lawn area that McCloskeys do legally own for sure and threaten them -protesters wander off out the other end of the private street (not sure if that was gated at time) after they break the gate near McCloskey house (or came back the same way?) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: People have the right to protect their property and self. There was a clear threat here. I don't understand what people are thinking otherwise? -protesters walk through gate, it's not damaged in the beginning, they're passing by on the sidewalk street. The gate is frequently left unlocked and people who don't own property there frequently walk through. They have no idea who the McCloskeys are -protesters are walking by, McCloskey's have a history of getting into arguments over the gate area. There's a lawsuit over who owns it-they claim they have gained exclusive control of the gate from their neighbors, they've pulled guns on people over who owns the gate before -McCloskeys come out and yell that protesters are on "their" property. Protesters yell back "fuck you whitey! And fuck your little dog too" etc -McCloskeys go back inside and get guns And come back out. Wife walks up and points her "pistol she knows doesn't work [wink wink]" at protesters while arguing continues. Protesters also get onto lawn area that McCloskeys do legally own for sure and threaten them -protesters wander off out the other end of the private street (not sure if that was gated at time) after they break the gate near McCloskey house (or came back the same way?)  Attached FileMy understanding was the mob broke through the iron gate to get onto the property. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:47:44 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pathetic and shameful post. Let insurance handle it Let the government handle it Let the mobs roam uninhibited Pathetic. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The old stand by still applies. I would rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6. Except that they could have acted better and given themselves a much better self defense case. There was no reason to come out of the house. None. They abandoned defensive positions to isolate themselves in the open. They were fucking rich and had insurance. Whatever damage was done to their house would have been taken care of. Then they could have sued the shit out of the city and state for not doing anything. Pathetic and shameful post. Let insurance handle it Let the government handle it Let the mobs roam uninhibited Pathetic. |
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