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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:25:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The old stand by still applies. I would rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6. Except that they could have acted better and given themselves a much better self defense case. There was no reason to come out of the house. None. They abandoned defensive positions to isolate themselves in the open. They were fucking rich and had insurance. Whatever damage was done to their house would have been taken care of. Then they could have sued the shit out of the city and state for not doing anything. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:26:21 AM EDT
[#2]
part of self defense is mentally gaming things, thinking about your plans if XX happens, planning how you will react if XX happens, how your family should react etc. arfcom loves to screech about " get some training", well guess what. mentally gaming what you will do is probably 80% of training, actually shooting your weapon, and being successful with your weapon is the last 20% of self defense IMHO. the military runs on talking about and thinking about whats coming, and planning on how to react to events, actually putting foot to ass a much smaller part of it. the same goes for the police, self defense, etc.
i give high praise for these people trying to protect their property, and im not criticizing their balls to do so, im just saying there are better ways to accomplish the same thing, and behavior your lawyer will thank you for when you go to trial, and behavior your lawyer will curse you for. if you want to run out the front door waiving a gun, pointing it at anyone and everyone and screaming like a maniac, sure, have at it, just dont be surprised if you wind up getting prosecuted when its all said and done for something or the other, as the list of things they can charge you with is pretty extensive. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:27:20 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there will STILL be cops willing to go to their house and arrest them. THAT'S the fucking problem here. That’s just one of many problems. Most of which occurred long before a cop shows up at their door with an arrest warrant. Im just one person and don’t have the answer to the issue, but I do know if you avoid liberal urban areas the odds all of this shit happening to you is greatly decreased. I can’t fathom raising my family anywhere other than small town America or a predominantly white suburb. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:27:24 AM EDT
[#4]
While it sucks for the moment.
I think that DA fucked with the wrong people here. Why? 1. Most people in these situations can just get lawyer fucked. Meaning you simply run out of money defending yourself. - These people clearly have the means to defend themselves and friends to defend them. 2. They seem like extremely successful lawyers. Which comes with a number of things, extremely successful lawyer friends is one of them. The fact they know the indictment is coming shows this. They will not be surprised. Honestly I think that DA is going to end up buying them a new house by the time this is all done. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:27:57 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yeah, its totally a toss up where their motivations lie. * eyeroll* the fact they had their gun stolen and might be facing charges kind of says it all. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/92687/prosecutor_jpg-1503253.JPG had the couple walked out into the public street next to their come and threatened the protestors, they might have a case... however, from recent events, and the fact the protestors broke thru a gate, and entered private property, its easy for a regular person to assume they were there to cause violence, crime, vandalism, etc and as a result the property owners were well within their rights . She needs to be disbarred and removed from office... Trespassing is a crime, destruction of property is a crime... |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:28:14 AM EDT
[#6]
Make no mistake, this is part of the left's attempt to overthrow our American way of life.
“My attorney advised me not to be on the show tonight because the rumor is that we are going to be indicted shortly,” McCloskey said. “Having said that, this is the same circuit attorney that released 35 of the protesters that torched and looted in downtown St. Louis but now she wants to indict me. I didn’t shoot anybody. I just held my ground, protecting my house, and I’m sitting here on television tonight instead of dead or putting out the smoldering embers of my home.” |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:28:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: from what I understand, and I am not a lawyer, the laws where they live are very good and they appear to have been 100% within them. The prosecutor is a liberal scum-bag that may be racist against white people. According to MO law they could’ve shot every one of the fucking protestors and been 100% justified. When will the State step in? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:28:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Its ironic how that _____ will not prosecute gang bangers, murderers (who kill women and children), violent protesters who loot and burn, but a family that's trying to keep their home from being over ran by a mob known for violence and destruction; prosecute the hell out of them.. She needs to lose her job...
Not a week goes by that I don't hear something she has done to disgrace her office and the people she supposedly works for. I'm so glad I moved out of St. Louis (County, not city). County is not a whole lot better and city keep trying to merge so they can collect all the taxes and finish flushing it down the drain too... |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:29:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there will STILL be cops willing to go to their house and arrest them. THAT'S the fucking problem here. I find it super fascinating that the people who tout the 2A as the defense against the government also seem to be the ones who rush to defend the same government |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:30:04 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This can't be said enough. Correct. Quoted again in case we missed it |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:30:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldnt take that bet even at good odds... if they were off to the mayor's house they'd have gone a different route. I haven't read the entire take on it but the hoard didn't turn around did they? They walked through that expensive private neighbor hood of homes to the mayors home.? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:31:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While it sucks for the moment. I think that DA fucked with the wrong people here. Why? 1. Most people in these situations can just get lawyer fucked. Meaning you simply run out of money defending yourself. - These people clearly have the means to defend themselves and friends to defend them. 2. They seem like extremely successful lawyers. Which comes with a number of things, extremely successful lawyer friends is one of them. The fact they know the indictment is coming shows this. They will not be surprised. Honestly I think that DA is going to end up buying them a new house by the time this is all done. i hope they sue the shit out of the city, prosecutor, etc if they fuck with them. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:31:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if you cant read between the lines, i cant help you. your peaceful until its time to use force, showing your armed is sometimes useful to deescalate, sometimes its not. iv shown i was armed several times and it descalated the situation and kept me from harm. i would not have done so in front of a horde of people all filming everything however. the guy could have had the rifle slung, pointing at the ground across his chest, hand on the grip, it accomplishes the same thing, and harder to claim your " threatening" anyone. the wife pointing and waiving her gun around at everyone not so much. it could be easily argued she was guilty of reckless endangerment for example, against a " peaceful protest". you can argue all you want about defending your property, but there are DEFINATELY better ways to go about it, and worse ways, to claim there is not is completely ignoring the legal system, and the politicized country we live in today, and prosecutors eager to put a notch in their social justice belt by sending you to prison if possible, or bankrupt you trying to, take away your rights to keep and bear arms forever thru a conviction etc.. you can be completely in the right, and lose everything and go to prison, and completely in the wrong and come out like a saint, the recent news proves it. Easy to armchair afterwards. With a mob in your front yard; your first thought isn't going to be grab a rifle and cleaning supplies and clean on your porch. They both clearly aren't trained. I don't care. They have a right to defend life and property and they did so well within the Castle Doctrine. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:32:48 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Make no mistake, this is part of the left's attempt to overthrow our American way of life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Make no mistake, this is part of the left's attempt to overthrow our American way of life. “My attorney advised me not to be on the show tonight because the rumor is that we are going to be indicted shortly,” McCloskey said. “Having said that, this is the same circuit attorney that released 35 of the protesters that torched and looted in downtown St. Louis but now she wants to indict me. I didn’t shoot anybody. I just held my ground, protecting my house, and I’m sitting here on television tonight instead of dead or putting out the smoldering embers of my home.” yup. IMHO the prosecutor should be investigated and on leave until they can decide if she abused her office, and or put her politics ahead of the truth, and keeping the peace. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:33:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Pure political ploy to piss off gun owners and conservatives and mollify violent protest troops
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:33:23 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there will STILL be cops willing to go to their house and arrest them. THAT'S the fucking problem here. But it's the chief and the politishunz!!1!!11!!!oneone!11!!!1 |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:34:05 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The police are useful idiots, and deserve what they fucking get. I lean this way now. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:34:57 AM EDT
[#18]
There won't be rioting and looting if they are convicted, but man there will be some big parties.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:34:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i hope they sue the shit out of the city, prosecutor, etc if they fuck with them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: While it sucks for the moment. I think that DA fucked with the wrong people here. Why? 1. Most people in these situations can just get lawyer fucked. Meaning you simply run out of money defending yourself. - These people clearly have the means to defend themselves and friends to defend them. 2. They seem like extremely successful lawyers. Which comes with a number of things, extremely successful lawyer friends is one of them. The fact they know the indictment is coming shows this. They will not be surprised. Honestly I think that DA is going to end up buying them a new house by the time this is all done. i hope they sue the shit out of the city, prosecutor, etc if they fuck with them. Letting the indictment come is step one. The DA probably has already made mistakes. Pushing forward on those mistakes is what makes this go from case dismissed when it hits a judge, to the DA having to buy another house. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:35:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: from what I understand, and I am not a lawyer, the laws where they live are very good and they appear to have been 100% within them. The prosecutor is a liberal scum-bag that may be racist against white people. BLACK LIVES MATTER is totally comprised of anti-Caucasian racist individuals. And self-hating suicidal whites as well. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:35:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldnt take that bet even at good odds... if they were off to the mayor's house they'd have gone a different route. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Probably the most fucked up thing about this is the hoard would have probably just kept walking by yelling through their mega phones black lives matter if the couple stayed inside.  Wouldnt take that bet even at good odds... if they were off to the mayor's house they'd have gone a different route. I've been saying this from the moment it happened. These people were purposefully targeted; the "mayor's house" was simply cover. Someone had a beef with these folks or knew how they would react. Do not put it past those who own/operate the DA herself to have looked at powerful lawyers in the St. Louis area or beyond and seen these people as barriers to furthering an agenda. Do not underestimate the deviousness of the mob and who controls their actions. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:35:55 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Easy to armchair afterwards. With a mob in your front yard; your first thought isn't going to be grab a rifle and cleaning supplies and clean on your porch. They both clearly aren't trained. I don't care. They have a right to defend life and property and they did so well within the Castle Doctrine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: if you cant read between the lines, i cant help you. your peaceful until its time to use force, showing your armed is sometimes useful to deescalate, sometimes its not. iv shown i was armed several times and it descalated the situation and kept me from harm. i would not have done so in front of a horde of people all filming everything however. the guy could have had the rifle slung, pointing at the ground across his chest, hand on the grip, it accomplishes the same thing, and harder to claim your " threatening" anyone. the wife pointing and waiving her gun around at everyone not so much. it could be easily argued she was guilty of reckless endangerment for example, against a " peaceful protest". you can argue all you want about defending your property, but there are DEFINATELY better ways to go about it, and worse ways, to claim there is not is completely ignoring the legal system, and the politicized country we live in today, and prosecutors eager to put a notch in their social justice belt by sending you to prison if possible, or bankrupt you trying to, take away your rights to keep and bear arms forever thru a conviction etc.. you can be completely in the right, and lose everything and go to prison, and completely in the wrong and come out like a saint, the recent news proves it. Easy to armchair afterwards. With a mob in your front yard; your first thought isn't going to be grab a rifle and cleaning supplies and clean on your porch. They both clearly aren't trained. I don't care. They have a right to defend life and property and they did so well within the Castle Doctrine. your forgetting that their actions will ABSOLUTELY be armchair quarterbacked after the fact, thats pretty much ALL the government does, the legal system, prosecutors, cops, etc. ( anyones would be ) by all levels of the government, by the perps lawyer, and the media and in this case theres lots of video as well. failing to put that into your self defense plans is a mistake, good optics IMHO are as important as a quality gun, ammo and body ammo in a self defense shooting. even if you do everything perfect, you can still be fucked, so you damn sure dont want it to look all fucked up to begin with if possible. i think the guy did pretty well all things considered, it was the wife who was causing problems by her gun handling. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:36:22 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn't shock me. They don't seem to have a grasp on self-defense laws and pointing guns at people. Bingo. Pointing guns at trespassers walking on your lawn, particularly when you have a giant lawn and they are far from your dwelling, is not generally going to be sobering with strong legal ground yo justify. In this case they ticked all the boxes to give a politically motivated DA grounds to burnish their credentials. I pretty much assumed their would charges from day one. In my eyes, the wife should catch a charge along the lines of brandishing and the husband gets nothing. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:37:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Besides the former governor of Missouri, NONE of the GOP pols there have stepped up to defend them.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/FkROTTs0g3c?t=665[/youtube] Bunch of cucks. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:37:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i hope they sue the shit out of the city, prosecutor, etc if they fuck with them. Based on their past legal suit filings I assume that is a VERY SAFE bet.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:37:42 AM EDT
[#26]
This seems racially motivated.
If the couple were black, there's no way a black DA would indict them. . . Turn the narrative back on them ;-) |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:40:24 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What the hell do you mean MAY? BLACK LIVES MATTER is totally comprised of anti-Caucasian racist individuals. And self-hating suicidal whites as well. turn on your sarcasm meter - I guess I should have added this 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:41:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bingo. Pointing guns at trespassers walking on your lawn, particularly when you have a giant lawn and they are far from your dwelling, is not generally going to be sobering with strong legal ground yo justify. In this case they ticked all the boxes to give a politically motivated DA grounds to burnish their credentials. I pretty much assumed their would charges from day one. In my eyes, the wife should catch a charge along the lines of brandishing and the husband gets nothing. Brandishing on your own property?  Meanwhile BLM blocks streets with ARs and no one is arrested. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:42:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bingo. Pointing guns at trespassers walking on your lawn, particularly when you have a giant lawn and they are far from your dwelling, is not generally going to be sobering with strong legal ground yo justify. In this case they ticked all the boxes to give a politically motivated DA grounds to burnish their credentials. I pretty much assumed their would charges from day one. In my eyes, the wife should catch a charge along the lines of brandishing and the husband gets nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wouldn't shock me. They don't seem to have a grasp on self-defense laws and pointing guns at people. Bingo. Pointing guns at trespassers walking on your lawn, particularly when you have a giant lawn and they are far from your dwelling, is not generally going to be sobering with strong legal ground yo justify. In this case they ticked all the boxes to give a politically motivated DA grounds to burnish their credentials. I pretty much assumed their would charges from day one. In my eyes, the wife should catch a charge along the lines of brandishing and the husband gets nothing. And yet no discussion from anyone on what charges the members of the mob should get. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:42:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Missouri Castle doctrine is pretty stout, from what I understand.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:42:35 AM EDT
[#31]
All of this monday morning quarterbacking going on here is ridiculous. It was 300+ vs 2. The fact that the discussion ignores that fact and is focusing on details is missing the forest for a tree.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:44:11 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just so we're all on the same page: Not crimes: Rioting, looting, arson, vandalism, or insurrection when done for or under the guise of a leftist cause. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:46:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of this monday morning quarterbacking going on here is ridiculous. It was 300+ vs 2. The fact that the discussion ignores that fact and is focusing on details is missing the forest for a tree. Mhm. I think the situation called for a Gatling gun, myself.  And I still don't see how it would be illegal. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:46:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The old stand by still applies. I would rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One thing is for use if they create a legal precedent where these people actually go to prison for defending their home we are all screwed. The old stand by still applies. I would rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6. I am going to add that to my favorite quote list. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:50:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except that they could have acted better and given themselves a much better self defense case. There was no reason to come out of the house. None. They abandoned defensive positions to isolate themselves in the open. They were fucking rich and had insurance. Whatever damage was done to their house would have been taken care of. Then they could have sued the shit out of the city and state for not doing anything. so they do not have the right to protect their property because they are rich? They must depend on insurance? Then pay more for having a claim? Then go through an expensive long emotionally draining battle against a you can't sue the king battle, that will likely go no where? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:51:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based on their past legal suit filings I assume that is a VERY SAFE bet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: i hope they sue the shit out of the city, prosecutor, etc if they fuck with them. Based on their past legal suit filings I assume that is a VERY SAFE bet. I’m in the fortunate/unfortunate situation of knowing a few “hired gun” attorney’s. Well connected, extremely smart lawyers. They live for shit like this. To make case law? To go after a county / state? It’s like an actor and a high profile movie. They absolutely live for it. Might take them 5 years. But they’ll go after everything. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:52:05 AM EDT
[#37]
The only problem here is that anyone anywhere actually has a problem with what they did. I said this in another thread. If that wasn’t a clear situation on when to use 2nd amendment rights, then I don’t know what is.
People can sit back and criticize their handling of guns, and back seat quarterback what they should or shouldn’t have done, but the fact is you don’t know what your reaction is going to be when a mob is outside your front door. This is no different than being surround med by people climbing in your car. But you know, many people here, and many people in general believe you have to wait until you’ve been shot. Had your head beat in, been pulled from your car, or are sitting inside of your burning house before you can actually take action. They certainly prevented the angry mob from burning down and looting their house. They certainly prevented a home invasion. The DA has actually put them in greater danger as have more than half of the law enforcement agencies in the country by showing “protestors” you can do whatever you want, and take whatever you want, because they will protect the “protestors” not the victims. It’s like bizarro-world out there. Seriously? We are more worried about gun handling, and who’s CCW technique follows some rule book of engagement, when you have 25 angry people on your front lawn who want to beat you up and take your stuff and there is any question that you should have the right to scream get off my lawn with some help by a rifle barrel? WTF!!!! Why even own fucking guns!!!! |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:52:44 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m in the fortunate/unfortunate situation of knowing a few “hired gun” attorney’s. Well connected, extremely smart lawyers. They live for shit like this. To make case law? To go after a county / state? It’s like an actor and a high profile movie. They absolutely live for it. Might take them 5 years. But they’ll go after everything. 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:52:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The police should be refusing orders to arrest people for self defense in cases like this. They can but they don't. And even if a few "good apples" resign from the agency, there are still enough automatons to enforce whatever it is handed to them, verbatim and without any thinking or hesitation. This case proves that, definitively. If the automatons got a court order to arrest them, they would do that too without any hesitation or common sense. They don't care if the department got sued (and lost), their jobs are secure. And this shyt is in Missouri. What hope do the rest of us have. And there is a huge double standard. Smash someone's gates, scream death threats, that's peaceful protesting. Walk around with an AR, that's assault. It's 100% politics. Marxist politics - the oppressed peasants storming rich capitalists mansions. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just so we're all on the same page... Crimes: Shooting a leftist who is beating you with a deadly weapon. Shooting a leftist assaulting you and trying to pull you from your vehicle. Holding a gun while defending self and property from rabid leftists. Not crimes: Rioting, looting, arson, vandalism, or insurrection when done for or under the guise of a leftist cause.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:54:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of this monday morning quarterbacking going on here is ridiculous. It was 300+ vs 2. The fact that the discussion ignores that fact and is focusing on details is missing the forest for a tree. Holy shit yes. It’s unbelievable to me honestly. If this wasn’t a time to brandish and scream “get off my lawn” within the full legal provisions to do so, then guns just as well be banned because you can’t use them to defend yourself anyway. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:55:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am going to add that to my favorite quote list. Looks like they will get their wish. And lose the mansion in the process, for legal defense bills. A good lawyer is what, $450/hour? Even if they win, they lose. that is the whole point - to prosecute them, with an unlikely conviction. The point is to bankrupt them. The prosecution will in effect burn their mansion when they run into $400,000 legal defense fees and will be forced to sell to get a smaller, normal house. Their lives are wrecked. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:58:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Besides the former governor of Missouri, NONE of the GOP pols there have stepped up to defend them.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkROTTs0g3c?t=681Bunch of cucks. The Missouri Attorney General did an interview and took a stand against the DA. I cant find the video currently. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:59:23 AM EDT
[#44]
For What? The Rioters were also armed.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:59:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Full presidential pardon would make a nice statement. It would, but would also have no effect on a charge filed by a state DA. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:00:20 AM EDT
[#46]
What I take from this is that they might as well have just opened fire upon the "protesters". If you're going to jail either way, might as well kill some commies on the way.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:01:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brandishing on your own property? Meanwhile BLM blocks streets with ARs and no one is arrested. Exactly. This is what happens when you tolerate the left for years. Different rules for different people. They are going to be indicted, the protestors are not, and nobody is going to do anything about it lest they be viewed as racist. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:01:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What I take from this is that they might as well have just opened fire upon the "protesters". If you're going to jail either way, might as well kill some commies on the way. If the commies had killed the McCloskey's I wonder if the DA would have arrested any of them? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:02:21 AM EDT
[#49]
People have the right to protect their property and self. There was a clear threat here.
I don't understand what people are thinking otherwise? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:04:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet no discussion from anyone on what charges the members of the mob should get. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wouldn't shock me. They don't seem to have a grasp on self-defense laws and pointing guns at people. Bingo. Pointing guns at trespassers walking on your lawn, particularly when you have a giant lawn and they are far from your dwelling, is not generally going to be sobering with strong legal ground yo justify. In this case they ticked all the boxes to give a politically motivated DA grounds to burnish their credentials. I pretty much assumed their would charges from day one. In my eyes, the wife should catch a charge along the lines of brandishing and the husband gets nothing. And yet no discussion from anyone on what charges the members of the mob should get. Start a new thread and we can discuss that too! |
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