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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:00:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I remember reading that McCain had to climb out of his aircraft and nearly died getting out. I guess they didn’t have zero zero seats in the aircraft then. I think the issue was the A4’s were getting ready for an alpha strike and the seats had to be armed by the Plane Captain as part of final check. The seats were Douglas Types not the Martin-Bakers. But yes they were Zero-zero. McCain wouldn’t have been able to arm the seats. That’s why no pilots ejected that day. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:01:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: "We don't have the shipyard capacity." Perhaps one of the most important little bits to come out in all of this. I'm going to guess that for this ship to be rebuilt, it would have to take the place of other shipyard work. So, what would we take out of the Naval and commercial pipelines for this to have yard space? Likewise, while there are likely some of the electronics assets out there, pulling them from "stores" would deplete/disrupt availability for active fleet repairs/availabiltiy, or require, upping ongoing, if any, procurement activity. Exactly right. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:02:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So sad to see this happen to a great ship, but also, and more importantly, super-pleased that there was no loss of life. I'll now be curious to see how much will actually be salvageable off of her. Maybe some engineering stuff in the lower decks? I suspect virtually all electronics and combat systems are completely ruined. Not much all that smoke damage is corrosive. Not to mention the heat damage. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:04:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Heard on the news that people were being effected by the smoke up to 40 miles away.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:07:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lexington and Saratoga started out as cruiser hulls, they were finished out as carriers in order to circumvent the post WWI Naval treaty restrictions. Not to circumvent, bit in accordance with exceptions in the Washington Treaty of 1922. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:08:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Don't mean to sound ignorant or anything but it's pretty apparent at this point the ship is scrap. Is there anything other than simply starting from scratch in building a new one? Someone said ship construction is tightly scheduled and starting construction on anything not on that schedule is practically near impossible. Would it be easier to pull something out of mothballs and convert it or try and buy a similar vessel from one of our allies and convert it? If not that contracting with one of them to build us one? Just asking. Good plan. And big Navy is certainly looking at that but a couple of thoughts: - shipyards are limited and are already scheduled into 1-10 year plans. - where is the money coming from? Budgets are planned in 5 year increments and paid in annual defense authorizations. - have to open it up to bidding. What shipyard has the capability and capacity? Workers? - what is the requirement? BHR was being modified for a mid life refit and to accommodate F-35B’s. Is that a capability of an existing older existing platform? - what and how will this effect unit deployments and rotations moving forward for fleet and combat commander requirements? - if money is allocated what program is it being taken from? Have to give something up to get something in today’s budget climate. Lots of questions. Even more unanswered. I would have suspect the navy will accept the loss and fold its mission and operating costs into existing ships and units. She is just gonna be absorbed into the abyss of lost and decommissioned ships and capability. My opinion only. Worth what you paid for it. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:09:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Believe the Midway, CV - 41 also Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lexington and Saratoga started out as cruiser hulls, they were finished out as carriers in order to circumvent the post WWI Naval treaty restrictions. Believe the Midway, CV - 41 also CVB from the start. Similar machinery set up to latest BBs . |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:12:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Not to circumvent, bit in accordance with exceptions in the Washington Treaty of 1922. Actually worked to our advantage. Saratoga was so robust she survived the war and was used at Bikini for Nuke tests. She survived those too if I recall and was finally sunk by a US submarine for target practice. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:15:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Here's a live aerial shot. It's kind of shitty but it's pretty close.
 *live* USS Bonhomme Richard fire Naval Base San Diego |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:19:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a live aerial shot. It's kind of shitty but it's pretty close.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPAfO2pg2v8Is that countdown legit or click bait? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:19:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heard on the news that people were being effected by the smoke up to 40 miles away. Lawyers are already doing TV commercials. "Have you been affected by........" (I joke, but its probably true) |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:20:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was wondering where the camera for that feed was located, because you can see the tower at the top of the Hotel Del Coronado in the lower left. A few minutes ago the view zoomed out and back in. The camera is way out on Point Loma, near the Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery or Cabrillo National Monument. It's a very long lens. I did a very hand and eyball map rotation for the viewing aspect and I get somewhere around SPAWAR systems. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:21:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that countdown legit or click bait? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's a live aerial shot. It's kind of shitty but it's pretty close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPAfO2pg2v8Is that countdown legit or click bait? Everything except the video feed is click bait. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:26:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that countdown legit or click bait? I'm not seeing any air traffic up to video right now so not sure that's a live feed and it hit 0 and reset so... yea BS |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:28:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heard on the news that people were being effected by the smoke up to 40 miles away. Is there free money involved? If so, I'm Affected too. The effect can vary based on those affected. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:30:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good plan. And big Navy is certainly looking at that but a couple of thoughts: - shipyards are limited and are already scheduled into 1-10 year plans. - where is the money coming from? Budgets are planned in 5 year increments and paid in annual defense authorizations. - have to open it up to bidding. What shipyard has the capability and capacity? Workers? - what is the requirement? BHR was being modified for a mid life refit and to accommodate F-35B’s. Is that a capability of an existing older existing platform? - what and how will this effect unit deployments and rotations moving forward for fleet and combat commander requirements? - if money is allocated what program is it being taken from? Have to give something up to get something in today’s budget climate. Lots of questions. Even more unanswered. I would have suspect the navy will accept the loss and fold its mission and operating costs into existing ships and units. She is just gonna be absorbed into the abyss of lost and decommissioned ships and capability. My opinion only. Worth what you paid for it. Wow! I had no idea. So basically if we were to get into a real shooting war it would be pretty much "Run what you brung," and hope you can knock out more of the enemy's capitol ships than he can knock out your's last man standing kinda thing. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:30:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there free money involved? If so, I'm Affected too. The effect can vary based on those affected. Cough cough...me too. I can't breathe.... |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:31:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did a very hand and eyball map rotation for the viewing aspect and I get somewhere around SPAWAR systems. I found another YouTube link to the same camera. It's described as Cabrillo National Monument Web Cam. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:33:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything except the video feed is click bait. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here's a live aerial shot. It's kind of shitty but it's pretty close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPAfO2pg2v8Is that countdown legit or click bait? Everything except the video feed is click bait. The video feed is BS also. It's been running that same video loop for the past few days and adds a green tint at night for the "night vision" effect. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:33:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to Rear Admiral Philip Sobeck, the Navy believes the fire was started by drywall supplies in a storage area in the lower half of the ship. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STgn4cpSepI"By"? Triwalls How do cardboard boxes start a fire? They may have been WHERE and WHAT was burning, but we need to know HOW and WHO started it. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:36:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "By"? Triwalls How do cardboard boxes start a fire? They may have been WHERE and WHAT was burning, but we need to know HOW and WHO started it. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:37:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a live aerial shot. It's kind of shitty but it's pretty close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPAfO2pg2v8 |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:39:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s overstating it a bit. It wasn’t a main space fire, wasn’t in shaft alley, and they didn’t almost lose her. It was started by smoking in an AC&R space whose exhaust went to the aux boiler exhaust and supply space (where the fire started), accentuated by improper storage of rags in a fan room and compressor oil in a nearby space. It was primarily a ventilation and cableway fire, which is why it took them 12 hours to put out. We were still dealing with the electrical effects of it several years later when I checked on board. And the CO and XO were fired. I misremembered some details, but the CO did make the comment regarding possibly losing her or considering evacuating the crew. THAT made an impression on us on LINCOLN and we modelled several major DC drills on the GW incident. So I could be confusing our mainspace drills with the GW details. Was there another ship fire with a spill into the shaft alley? Either way, she had a major, difficult to control fire. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:40:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GW had a main space fire several years ago, fuel spill into the shaft alley. They were at sea and nearly lost her. No outside assistance coming in a situation like that. I'm pretty sure they limped all the way home with no power to at least the back half of the ship. Berthings must have been horribly hot. I knew a couple's quadroon people who were on it who told me all about it when they returned. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:41:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I swear I thought there was less smoke earlier today. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's a live aerial shot. It's kind of shitty but it's pretty close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPAfO2pg2v8It's recorded video This one just went live.  Chopper 8 flies over USS Bonhomme Richard |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:43:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's recorded video |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:43:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I swear I thought there was less smoke earlier today. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's a live aerial shot. It's kind of shitty but it's pretty close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPAfO2pg2v8I think Dracster correctly pointed out that the feed is bogus. It's a loop. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:43:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a live aerial shot. It's kind of shitty but it's pretty close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPAfO2pg2v8 |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:44:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a live aerial shot. It's kind of shitty but it's pretty close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPAfO2pg2v8that's not live Chopper 8 is almost back to the site Chopper 8 flies over USS Bonhomme Richard |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:46:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Wow! I had no idea. So basically if we were to get into a real shooting war it would be pretty much "Run what you brung," and hope you can knock out more of the enemy's capitol ships than he can knock out your's last man standing kinda thing. Exactly. It takes years to construct a modern warship. It takes months to a year to train her crew. Add in weapons builds and anticipate problems engineer workarounds you have a long latency from approval to fleet operations. Add in an airwing and training etc... it’s a multi million dollar a day operating cost and billions over its life time. For perspective the USS Attu an escort carrier from WWII was keel to commission in 14 months. The USS Gerald Ford is still working out it’s construction issues and isn’t ready for deployment. She was commissioned in 2017. She was keel laid in 2005. Cost over 13 billion so far and hasn’t made a deployment yet. Shipyard/shipbuilding and Refueling Ships are the two massive holes in our national strategy to maintain a fighting Navy. Sadly we have a fuckton of SJW programs that cost money and drain resources while destroying moral. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:49:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "We don't have the shipyard capacity." Perhaps one of the most important little bits to come out in all of this. I'm going to guess that for this ship to be rebuilt, it would have to take the place of other shipyard work. So, what would we take out of the Naval and commercial pipelines for this to have yard space? Likewise, while there are likely some of the electronics assets out there, pulling them from "stores" would deplete/disrupt availability for active fleet repairs/availabiltiy, or require, upping ongoing, if any, procurement activity. Time to fully reopen the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:50:49 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:51:36 PM EDT
[#33]
I have been expecting nasty looking water to show by now. I'm glad to see very little if anything bad has gotten into the water.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:53:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: #1 most likely cause - sabotage. Cardboard does not spontaneously combust. #2 most likely - lithium ion battery had an internal short circuit and started a fire. Cardboard/paper can spontaneously ignite if stacked wet. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:53:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at the preliminary interior damage there is no way they will rebuild her. She will be stricken. Looks like her elevators are compromised. The cableways for the elevators are in bad shape as well as pulleys. The hangar bay doors are damaged. The overhead in hangar bay looks totally gutted and you can see massive damage to the overhead and bulkheads. Every single hatch will need to be removed and checked for warp. That alone is cost prohibitive. Her combat systems on the island forward and aft are destroyed. Her directors are destroyed. Her 48E is gone. Her 49 is damaged. I can’t see her forward CIWS. Is it even there? Her NSSM is intact but the launcher drive and control is likely destroyed and her fwd RAM launcher is damaged. I can’t see the engineer spaces damage but this much salt water has probably flooded most below deck spaces including engineering. It’s simply not gonna be possible budget wise to rebuild. We also don’t have the shipyard capacity. Our maintenance availabilities are scheduled years in advance. Agree. We are not the nation, or armed force, in totality, that we were 75 years ago. In some ways we’re superior; technology, SOF, specialties in general. Regardless of material condition and manning level, things should have never gotten that out of hand. Every sailor’s a fireman and all hands station wide should have been sprinting to the fight. There has been worse: https://cdm16099.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16099coll14/id/6050/rec/14 https://cdm16099.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16099coll14/id/6005/rec/13  FIRE AND EXPLOSION DAMAGE TO AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS FRANKLIN 32902 |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:53:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Damn it looks like there's still smoking coming from the center of the superstructure area and something venting near the starboard aft area of the flight deck.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:53:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: From just a few minutes ago https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/48680/BHR_JPG-1503583.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/48680/BHR2_JPG-1503584.JPG She looks down at the stern and still smoking at the O-2 level aft both sides. Still hot. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:54:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "We don't have the shipyard capacity." Perhaps one of the most important little bits to come out in all of this. I'm going to guess that for this ship to be rebuilt, it would have to take the place of other shipyard work. So, what would we take out of the Naval and commercial pipelines for this to have yard space? Likewise, while there are likely some of the electronics assets out there, pulling them from "stores" would deplete/disrupt availability for active fleet repairs/availabiltiy, or require, upping ongoing, if any, procurement activity. "... in July 1972 that had significant impact on the Navy’s ability to carry out its mission. A fire aboard the carrier U.S.S. Forrestal based in Norfolk burned the admiral’s quarters and extensively damaged the ship’s radar communication system, resulting in more than $7 million in damage. It was the largest single act of sabotage in naval history." To repair Forrestal, the electronics suite intended for installation on the new carrier Nimtz was used, which delayed the completion of it. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:54:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: I have been expecting nasty looking water to show by now. I'm glad to see very little if anything bad has gotten into the water. That’s a good sign regarding fuel bunker integrity. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:54:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tri-walls is what I heard. Civ's won't know what those are and would "hear" dry wall. Tri-walls are Connex boxes. https://www.bulkcontainerexpress.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/UP404845-0_standard.jpg I've heard Tri-wall, Dry-wall, and Gaylord used interchangeably for cardboard boxes that sit on top of pallets so many times over the years, I don't actually know the difference myself... |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:54:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Sorry about the bogus feed. This one is from a local TV news channel and looks legit - Forward mast is collapsed, very little smoke now, seems to agree with the Cabrillo Monument Web cam:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/fire-continues-to-burn-on-uss-bonhomme-richard/509-c3196629-1877-4607-b6c9-ed37a99f494a |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 1:55:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agree. We are not the nation, or armed force, in totality, that we were 75 years ago. In some ways we’re superior; technology, SOF, specialties in general. Regardless of material condition and manning level, things should have never gotten that out of hand. Every sailor’s a fireman and all hands station wide should have been sprinting to the fight. There has been worse: https://cdm16099.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16099coll14/id/6050/rec/14 https://cdm16099.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16099coll14/id/6005/rec/13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn7EUyQ-pBAMy great uncle died on the Franklin |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:01:14 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:04:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually worked to our advantage. Saratoga was so robust she survived the war and was used at Bikini for Nuke tests. She survived those too if I recall and was finally sunk by a US submarine for target practice. My father can attest to Sara’s strength. He was onboard when they got hit off Iwo Jima. He recalls crews hosing down the steaming decks to cool them as his team worked the ammunition hoists. BTW, a few weeks ago he told me he’s the last surviving crew member. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:06:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: My father can attest to Sara’s strength. He was onboard when they got hit off Iwo Jima. He recalls crews hosing down the steaming decks to cool them as his team worked the ammunition hoists. BTW, a few weeks ago he told me he’s the last surviving crew member. Wow. That’s crazy. They are all leaving us at a fast pace. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:09:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the issue was the A4’s were getting ready for an alpha strike and the seats had to be armed by the Plane Captain as part of final check. The seats were Douglas Types not the Martin-Bakers. But yes they were Zero-zero. McCain wouldn’t have been able to arm the seats. That’s why no pilots ejected that day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I remember reading that McCain had to climb out of his aircraft and nearly died getting out. I guess they didn’t have zero zero seats in the aircraft then. I think the issue was the A4’s were getting ready for an alpha strike and the seats had to be armed by the Plane Captain as part of final check. The seats were Douglas Types not the Martin-Bakers. But yes they were Zero-zero. McCain wouldn’t have been able to arm the seats. That’s why no pilots ejected that day. Ah. That makes sense. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:11:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My father can attest to Sara’s strength. He was onboard when they got hit off Iwo Jima. He recalls crews hosing down the steaming decks to cool them as his team worked the ammunition hoists. BTW, a few weeks ago he told me he’s the last surviving crew member. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actually worked to our advantage. Saratoga was so robust she survived the war and was used at Bikini for Nuke tests. She survived those too if I recall and was finally sunk by a US submarine for target practice. My father can attest to Sara’s strength. He was onboard when they got hit off Iwo Jima. He recalls crews hosing down the steaming decks to cool them as his team worked the ammunition hoists. BTW, a few weeks ago he told me he’s the last surviving crew member. God bless your father and his shipmates. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:12:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I misremembered some details, but the CO did make the comment regarding possibly losing her or considering evacuating the crew. THAT made an impression on us on LINCOLN and we modelled several major DC drills on the GW incident. So I could be confusing our mainspace drills with the GW details. Was there another ship fire with a spill into the shaft alley? Either way, she had a major, difficult to control fire. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That’s overstating it a bit. It wasn’t a main space fire, wasn’t in shaft alley, and they didn’t almost lose her. It was started by smoking in an AC&R space whose exhaust went to the aux boiler exhaust and supply space (where the fire started), accentuated by improper storage of rags in a fan room and compressor oil in a nearby space. It was primarily a ventilation and cableway fire, which is why it took them 12 hours to put out. We were still dealing with the electrical effects of it several years later when I checked on board. And the CO and XO were fired. I misremembered some details, but the CO did make the comment regarding possibly losing her or considering evacuating the crew. THAT made an impression on us on LINCOLN and we modelled several major DC drills on the GW incident. So I could be confusing our mainspace drills with the GW details. Was there another ship fire with a spill into the shaft alley? Either way, she had a major, difficult to control fire. I don’t recall a shaft alley fire in a CVN, but certainly could have happened. Yeah, it was no joke - the report is on the cpf foia page, I looked back at it to refresh my memory on some of the details. The ship was pretty run down when I got there, still trying to fix a bunch of systems that had cables destroyed by the fire. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:13:36 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty sure they limped all the way home with no power to at least the back half of the ship. Berthings must have been horribly hot. I knew a couple's quadroon people who were on it who told me all about it when they returned. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: GW had a main space fire several years ago, fuel spill into the shaft alley. They were at sea and nearly lost her. No outside assistance coming in a situation like that. I'm pretty sure they limped all the way home with no power to at least the back half of the ship. Berthings must have been horribly hot. I knew a couple's quadroon people who were on it who told me all about it when they returned. Pretty sure that’s accurate. She had a lot of electrical damage. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 2:19:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Time to fully reopen the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard Aker has at lease one of the two drydocks fully refitted with modern equipment, not sure about the other. |
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