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Posted: 5/29/2020 4:09:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except we used to work our way through college... Millennials are likely the first generation to be full time students. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is one point where I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for Millennials, because it's true. Saw it firsthand many times over. It is ridiculous to expect 18yos to make intelligent informed decisions about going into $30-80K of non-dischargeable debt for decades. Except we used to work our way through college... Millennials are likely the first generation to be full time students. A great many Millennials were told by parents “don’t get a job, focus on your studies.” |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 4:14:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This one graph says most of what needs to be said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5IJKDSG4UFHADLHXKXTJUJG3KI.png&w=916 I'm entering my mid-30s, and the economy has been crap for most of my adult life. Even when things like unemployment numbers looked good, wages have been stagnant. The cost of most goods and services has been inflating while salaries have not. Can't agree more |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 4:21:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Affordable starter housing is out there in decent areas with good jobs. Cars, while a bit more expensive, are more reliable than ever in history. If you are living in your parents' house with "lots of time" to play video games and smoke weed then you are 99% of the world's population. If you could roll some magical dice to get a shot at being born in a different place at a different time you would be absolutely insane to do so. You would likely end up poor and quite possibly dead by the time you hit 30 with that sort of work ethic. Our society has given you every opportunity to succeed and you have chosen to spend your time playing games and getting high. The fact that that is even a viable path in life should tell you how lucky you really are. You are the victim of your own self-imposed limitations and have no reason to bitch and moan about anything other than your own apathy. *When I say "you" I mean the hypothetical person in your scenario. You could be a self-made millionaire for all I know. Which is something that anyone born in this country can achieve if they put in the time and effort instead of playing video games, smoking reefer, and lamenting on social media about how they can't afford with little effort what their parents built over a lifetime. Fwiw, I guess I am. I’m also GenX. Says so right in the OP. GenX also had it tough. A truly 100% self made man is the rarest unicorn of all. I only succeeded because I was blessed with good health and a good wife who didn’t divorce me and steal half my shit. And I was lucky to find one career that motivated me enough to stick with it through thick and thin. And I beat the odds hundreds of times through sheer luck. But this thread is about Millennials, and whether they face an uphill battle due to macro Economic factors beyond their control. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 4:24:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A great many Millennials were told by parents “don’t get a job, focus on your studies.” I think also people go about school the wrong way. Spend the first two years at community college, either live at home or a cheap apartment. Instead it seems the majority start at a 4 year school, worse if going out of state. Now some of them require, if not living with parents students have to live in the dorm the first 2 years. Maybe instead of not working you take a lighter course load and it takes you a little longer to graduate. It seem more schools are about “the experience” and not the education. The student union taking up a city block, money going to all sorts of things besides education. It seems almost like it’s expected to go into crazy amounts of debt. Get a useless degree and go into debt, that’s just what people do. 20 years later, still paying on the debt. That’s a sign you took on too much debt for your degree / career. (I know there are tax advantages to keep debt and it’s usually at a low interest rate, but the people I talk to are 30k - 100k in debt, 10+ years later, and they have the debt because they can’t pay it off, not for tax advantages). People need to go into college with their eyes open. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 4:30:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Boomers in this thread
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Posted: 5/29/2020 4:32:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm only eyeballing the graph, but it appears to me that we're just slowly regressing toward the mean. A fluke of chance had us walking out of two world wars unscathed and set us on an upward trajectory from 1918-1975. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This one graph says most of what needs to be said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5IJKDSG4UFHADLHXKXTJUJG3KI.png&w=916 I'm entering my mid-30s, and the economy has been crap for most of my adult life. Even when things like unemployment numbers looked good, wages have been stagnant. The cost of most goods and services has been inflating while salaries have not. I'm only eyeballing the graph, but it appears to me that we're just slowly regressing toward the mean. A fluke of chance had us walking out of two world wars unscathed and set us on an upward trajectory from 1918-1975. This a million times over. We were a massive industrialized country that escaped destruction during two devastating wars that nearly wiped out everyone else. We rode that luck for 60 years and it was great. Smart people acknowledge luck and look for more favorable situations to exploit. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 4:41:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 120 years maybe, but only because of the depression. Born 80-90 years ago? Heck yes you would have been better off. Those Gens rode the entire post war boom in the U.S. while living a far more free and easy life. Social cohesion, shared values and culture were a thing and no surveillance state tracking and watching their every move. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:Anyone that thinks they would have been better off being born 100 - 120 years ago is insane. Millennials currently have the best lifestyle that we've been able to produce thus far on earth. They have more comfort, leisure, and material wealth (in real terms) than any generation that has ever existed. 120 years maybe, but only because of the depression. Born 80-90 years ago? Heck yes you would have been better off. Those Gens rode the entire post war boom in the U.S. while living a far more free and easy life. Social cohesion, shared values and culture were a thing and no surveillance state tracking and watching their every move. No, you probably wouldn't have. A considerable amount of houses in the US still didn't have indoor plumbing in 1940. Like, almost *half* of them. Also, you had a pretty fair probability of being drafted, since around 175k young men got inducted every year between 1955 and 1970. You were also probably raised to think smoking wasn't a huge deal, and you had a much higher likelihood of a large variety of exposure to construction materials that we now know cause cancer. You got to live the prime of your life with the highest murder rates the US has ever seen during the 70s. Then you got to got through the second highest modern murder rate era in the 90s. You got to buy a house (that was about half the size, and likely didn't have A/C) in the 70s and 80s with double digit mortgage rates. Not to mention the medical care that you received for much of that era was pretty rudimentary compared to what we have now. Mortality from coronary disease is about 1/3 of what it was in the 60s. Can you imagine the lifespan someone is going to have these days if they can just avoid not being a fatass? People tend to glorify the nature of factory jobs too. Oh you could buy a house! And probably get carpal tunnel or destroy your back or some other disability because we didn't really start fixing a lot of non-mortality problems in factory work until the 80s and 90s. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 4:44:46 PM EDT
[#8]
From ‘83...pepperidge farm remembers...
 When the Shit Hits the Fan |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 5:17:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is one point where I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for Millennials, because it's true. Saw it firsthand many times over. It is ridiculous to expect 18yos to make intelligent informed decisions about going into $30-80K of non-dischargeable debt for decades. The thing is, at one time that thinking was rational. My dad is smarter than I am, but he couldn’t afford college and there were no scholarships back then. It actually was a barrier for an intelligent person to not have a college degree and in some ways it still is based purely on wage stats. So when my generation grew up he and his generation made sure we had access to college through scholarships, grants, loans, etc. Of course there were terrible second order effects..... When the Millennials’ kids grow up I bet they make sure those kids have access to affordable starter homes, and that will have terrible unintended consequences of some kind. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 5:26:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's always my favorite part about these discussions. The people who say you aren't owed a job because you have a degree. Showed up to the interview highly under qualified and won it on a hand shake. Most of GD is stuck in the past. That's why we have threads about how expensive surplus has gotten. "I remember when you could get a case of SKS rifles for a nickle, what happened?" |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 5:33:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask your parents what their interest rate was on their first house. Put a strap around your jaw first. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The bar is definitely set a lot higher than the boomer generation. No way could I afford my parents' house following in their footsteps. Put a strap around your jaw first. Would you rather buy a $100,000 house at 12% interest, or a $300,000 house at 4% interest? I know which one I prefer. Because Debt is Slavery. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 5:43:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Nobody is stopping the "unluckiest generation" from getting on a boat and sailing away from the good old USA.
What's preventing them, other than the lack of a better destination? |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 5:56:10 PM EDT
[#13]
I am a veteran millennial at a 1985 birth year. When my wife got out of college in 08 she landed a job at a bank making 13.50 an/hr. She hated that, but worked hard and made connections. She was making good money when she left to be a stay at home mom. I was put off by a hiring freeze 2 times at 2 different places back during the recession. I choose a not so high paying job and worked hard. I am doing decent now.
Our retirement isn’t where it should be, but we have a 3700 sqft home that’s 1/3 of the way paid for and no other debts. It sucked but certainly we live in one of the most secure and prosperous times ever. We will be ok folks.. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 5:57:41 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm a late boomer.
What my dad taught me about jobs and what to do to keep them and prosper went the way of the dinosaur right before my eyes. I took that knowledge and taught my kids different and made adjustments. They are now prospering and my grand kids are doing better still. Don't perpetuate your failures and teach your offspring hard lessons and you've done good. Ego as no place in the advancement of your offspring. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 5:58:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing is, at one time that thinking was rational. My dad is smarter than I am, but he couldn't afford college and there were no scholarships back then. It actually was a barrier for an intelligent person to not have a college degree and in some ways it still is based purely on wage stats. So when my generation grew up he and his generation made sure we had access to college through scholarships, grants, loans, etc. Of course there were terrible second order effects..... When the Millennials' kids grow up I bet they make sure those kids have access to affordable starter homes, and that will have terrible unintended consequences of some kind. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is one point where I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for Millennials, because it's true. Saw it firsthand many times over. It is ridiculous to expect 18yos to make intelligent informed decisions about going into $30-80K of non-dischargeable debt for decades. The thing is, at one time that thinking was rational. My dad is smarter than I am, but he couldn't afford college and there were no scholarships back then. It actually was a barrier for an intelligent person to not have a college degree and in some ways it still is based purely on wage stats. So when my generation grew up he and his generation made sure we had access to college through scholarships, grants, loans, etc. Of course there were terrible second order effects..... When the Millennials' kids grow up I bet they make sure those kids have access to affordable starter homes, and that will have terrible unintended consequences of some kind. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 6:07:14 PM EDT
[#16]
It has always sucked. It has always been great. It is the outlook that defines it.
Personally I blame MTV (well, all those "reality shows") that keep showing entry level jobs as high paid careers. Ever see the house Al Bundy lives in? Ever see a legal intern live in a Manhattan corner apartment? This constant misrepresentation of reality has driven a seriously disaffected generation. They keep seeing all the comforts but can't achieve them. Why? Because it is all patently false! Until this (and the following generations) get a firm grasp on the difference between TV and reality nobody will be happy. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 6:08:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody is stopping the "unluckiest generation" from getting on a boat and sailing away from the good old USA. What's preventing them, other than the lack of a better destination? I'm generationally fluid, so I don't really care one way or the other, however, a lot of Millennials got fucked by college costs and general economic bad luck. Same could be said for some boomers, but it was more government induced with Millennials and more widespread. I'm not saying that you should do anything about it, or even care. Just acknowledge it. If it's raining and cold come deer season, I'm going hunting. Was that tougher than perfect weather? Yes. Does it matter? Nope. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 6:18:29 PM EDT
[#18]
I blame the Immigration Act of 1965 for destroying what the United States used to be for the previous generations.
The full effects of the Immigration Act of 1965 were not fully felt (suffered) until the millennials became of age. Every generation before the Millennials had their problems for sure, but only the Millennials had to experience first hand the cultural enrichment. The United States was largely a European country for the previous generations. If the demographics of the United States of today were around during Ronald Reagan's election, Reagan would have lost the election if he ran against Obama. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 6:19:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing is, at one time that thinking was rational. My dad is smarter than I am, but he couldn’t afford college and there were no scholarships back then. It actually was a barrier for an intelligent person to not have a college degree and in some ways it still is based purely on wage stats. So when my generation grew up he and his generation made sure we had access to college through scholarships, grants, loans, etc. Of course there were terrible second order effects..... When the Millennials’ kids grow up I bet they make sure those kids have access to affordable starter homes, and that will have terrible unintended consequences of some kind. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is one point where I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for Millennials, because it's true. Saw it firsthand many times over. It is ridiculous to expect 18yos to make intelligent informed decisions about going into $30-80K of non-dischargeable debt for decades. The thing is, at one time that thinking was rational. My dad is smarter than I am, but he couldn’t afford college and there were no scholarships back then. It actually was a barrier for an intelligent person to not have a college degree and in some ways it still is based purely on wage stats. So when my generation grew up he and his generation made sure we had access to college through scholarships, grants, loans, etc. Of course there were terrible second order effects..... When the Millennials’ kids grow up I bet they make sure those kids have access to affordable starter homes, and that will have terrible unintended consequences of some kind. Correct. I started college in very late 1980s when “go to college, you will make more” was generally correct. But parents confused a degree with success, not realizing that “college leads to white-collar success” had it backwards, and it should be “successful white-collar people tend to pick up college degrees on the way.” Then schools started pushing EVERYONE to go, degrees got watered down, tuition and room/board skyrocketed, it became all about “the college experience” instead of actual education, etc. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 6:41:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. I'm the tail end of Gen X and all through school it was go to college or you're a no good piece of shit deadbeat. The Tech School was where all the "losers and rejects" went to learn trades. It is criminal how bad our parents/teachers/counselors pushed that bullshit on most of GenX and Millenials. I was born in 1968, graduated HS in 1986, and that's the truth. I managed to do well despite all that, but not after spending a fuckton of money on degrees that I don't use. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 6:59:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Enough, I'd say. Who do you think has been dying in the middle east the last 20 years? Not all of us have been living in mom's basement making youtube videos. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many millennials have starved to death? How many millennials have died in a war/ been conscripted? The US has a ridiculously high standard of living now, and we all are used to it. 50’s middle class life would be considered unacceptable today due to small homes, shared apartments, few expensive appliances. Do millennials have it harder than boomers? Sure. Worst ever? Not even close. Enough, I'd say. Who do you think has been dying in the middle east the last 20 years? Not all of us have been living in mom's basement making youtube videos. Plenty of GenX were out there bleeding with you. I’m not saying that millennials have had it easy- I’m disputing the claim that they have had a uniquely rough go at life. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 7:03:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A great many Millennials were told by parents “don’t get a job, focus on your studies.” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is one point where I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for Millennials, because it's true. Saw it firsthand many times over. It is ridiculous to expect 18yos to make intelligent informed decisions about going into $30-80K of non-dischargeable debt for decades. Except we used to work our way through college... Millennials are likely the first generation to be full time students. A great many Millennials were told by parents “don’t get a job, focus on your studies.” It’s annoying, but we’re hardly the first generation to get shit advice from our parents. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 7:11:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eh... -87% of MOSs don't have skills that translate to the civilian world. Most of those that do are low density. The overwhelming majority of guys that leave the service don't have a skill set that translates to a quality civilian career. -The GI Bill thing works okay if you make it from enlistment to college grad as a single guy with no dependents. If you get hitched or pick up a child support payment, the road gets a hell of a lot rougher. Most guys don't make that leap. -Even if you make it, the GI Bill path results in a late start to your career. I ETS'd and started college at 25, and I graduated and started my career at 29. Sure, I had no student debt, but I lost out on 4-5 years of raises and compound interest, and I landed in a situation where my seniors/managers are my age and my peers are younger. There's also a big quality of life difference between spending your college years in college vs spending them in a shithole then going to college later as a commuter student. I don't regret my path because it's worked out, but it's had major trade-offs, and a lot of the guys that tried what I've done failed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unlucky? If Millennials wanted to successful, they should have joined the military since (literally) their entire adult lives the country has been at war. The military is a low paying salaried job with no compensation for overtime. When I was in Iraq, I was working 100+ hours a week, I could count all of my days "off" outside of midtour leave on one hand, and I think I made a whopping $25k the whole year.  While true, there are still certain advantages for certain groups of people. - If you pick the right MOS you will have a skill that transfers well and often will get bonuses (I signed a tax free $80,000 reenlistment bonus for a corporal in Iraq in 2008). - Free college- no going into debt to get whatever degree you want + a monthly BAH stipend if you go full time -Access to better SBA loans, better VA home loans, and various other long term financial benefits -You will leave with money in a retirement account. It's not great, but it's something even if you just do 4 years. Again, you're not wrong but in many cases a smartly done 4 year stint can really set you up for success. Hell, my 21 year old twins both joined the Coast Guard. One already owns his first home, and the other in buying soon. If that's not getting life started on the right foot then I don't know what is. Eh... -87% of MOSs don't have skills that translate to the civilian world. Most of those that do are low density. The overwhelming majority of guys that leave the service don't have a skill set that translates to a quality civilian career. -The GI Bill thing works okay if you make it from enlistment to college grad as a single guy with no dependents. If you get hitched or pick up a child support payment, the road gets a hell of a lot rougher. Most guys don't make that leap. -Even if you make it, the GI Bill path results in a late start to your career. I ETS'd and started college at 25, and I graduated and started my career at 29. Sure, I had no student debt, but I lost out on 4-5 years of raises and compound interest, and I landed in a situation where my seniors/managers are my age and my peers are younger. There's also a big quality of life difference between spending your college years in college vs spending them in a shithole then going to college later as a commuter student. I don't regret my path because it's worked out, but it's had major trade-offs, and a lot of the guys that tried what I've done failed. I was enlisted infantry. Didn’t get my degree until I was 28. Turns out leadership, work ethic, and problem solving skills translate real well to the corporate world. I make more money than I ever thought possible  . Refuse to be a victim. If you’re not happy about having younger bosses, then work harder than them and get promoted faster. If your company isn’t growing fast enough for that, find one that is. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 7:17:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I don’t exactly agree with the title. Being drafted into a War would certainly suck more. However, it makes some interesting points regarding the macro economy. There’s always gonna be winners and losers, but for the average Millennial and subsequent generations, I do believe it’s been harder to get established, build wealth, escape debt, own a home, etc. Even for a frugal and well paid member of the GENX Master race, it’s been difficult to escape the gravity well of inflation. Decades of weak dollar policy, has made prices on big ticket items like houses and education shoot to the moon. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/27/millennial-recession-covid/ Gravity well of inflation? Were you around in the 1970s and early 1980s? In 1979 annual inflation hit 13.5% and was double digit for many years in the later half of the 1970s. Millennials haven't see rates of inflation anything like that. In fact, inflation has been low for their entire lifetime. People had 14+% mortgages in this period. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 7:24:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A great many Millennials were told by parents “don’t get a job, focus on your studies.” I was so burned out on school my senior year, I wanted to work for a while. Parents said "You aren't missing out on your opportunity to go to UCSB." Went in undeclared, had no plan, no contacts at school since I wasn't living near campus and flunked out after my 3rd quarter. If I could go back to my 18 year old self, I'd say wait on college until you really want the degree you're in for and know what it's worth. College was a complete waste of time for me. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 7:29:28 PM EDT
[#26]
What I don't understand about millenial hate
It's ok to think that this time period is very good in many aspects while also very bad in many others. There are essentially zero social institutions left standing that haven't been actively destroyed by the liberal left. Male authority has been replaced in large part by the state. Imagine telling your great grandfather about how your run your household with your "partner." It's asinine. Sure it's easy to start an online business and you almost have to to get ahead so you can afford a house in a decent area not riddled with crime and fucked up schools. Of course you get the 2 hour commute to go with it. Blue collar jobs are getting scooped up by second generation illegals who openly flout workplace regulations. White collar jobs are going the same way. You work in an office? There's an H1B with a low quality foreign degree waiting to take your job for half the pay because he doesn't have any problem living 3 to a bedroom with his friends or family - all on H1B too. The internet has entrenched every stupid shitty opinion so making friends is extremely difficult. We're a broken generation, around 70% of my high school class came from broken homes. Single mothers were the norm and it shows. If you're not one of the many protected classes, your life can be destroyed in an instant by social media and it's useful idiots. Millennials are a cursed generation. They're not the first and they won't be the last. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 7:36:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Part of the problem is that we have become used to each generation being better off than their parents.
However, there is a limit to much better off you can realistically be, if your parents own a home and a couple of vehicles and an RV does that mean you will own your own jet? |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 7:42:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm generationally fluid, so I don't really care one way or the other, however, a lot of Millennials got fucked by college costs and general economic bad luck. Same could be said for some boomers, but it was more government induced with Millennials and more widespread. I'm not saying that you should do anything about it, or even care. Just acknowledge it. If it's raining and cold come deer season, I'm going hunting. Was that tougher than perfect weather? Yes. Does it matter? Nope. If I had to do it all over I'd probably have become an eye surgeon/eyeglass doctor. Clean and $$$. I haven't used my BSBA, or my Comm/IFR/multi/, or my CDL "A" and passenger HazMat ect. in +15 years. (Although I did make a decent fortune previously -- using some of those "educations") Since then I've made decent money selling, and installing kitchen cabinets, Murphy Beds, Garage workshops, and California closets The future is unkown and you take your best shot at it. The USA is where you want to be. If anyone wishes to disagree, then lets have at it. Which country offers a better outlook? |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 7:45:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think also people go about school the wrong way. Spend the first two years at community college, either live at home or a cheap apartment. Instead it seems the majority start at a 4 year school, worse if going out of state. Now some of them require, if not living with parents students have to live in the dorm the first 2 years. Maybe instead of not working you take a lighter course load and it takes you a little longer to graduate. It seem more schools are about “the experience” and not the education. The student union taking up a city block, money going to all sorts of things besides education. It seems almost like it’s expected to go into crazy amounts of debt. Get a useless degree and go into debt, that’s just what people do. 20 years later, still paying on the debt. That’s a sign you took on too much debt for your degree / career. (I know there are tax advantages to keep debt and it’s usually at a low interest rate, but the people I talk to are 30k - 100k in debt, 10+ years later, and they have the debt because they can’t pay it off, not for tax advantages). People need to go into college with their eyes open. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A great many Millennials were told by parents “don’t get a job, focus on your studies.” I think also people go about school the wrong way. Spend the first two years at community college, either live at home or a cheap apartment. Instead it seems the majority start at a 4 year school, worse if going out of state. Now some of them require, if not living with parents students have to live in the dorm the first 2 years. Maybe instead of not working you take a lighter course load and it takes you a little longer to graduate. It seem more schools are about “the experience” and not the education. The student union taking up a city block, money going to all sorts of things besides education. It seems almost like it’s expected to go into crazy amounts of debt. Get a useless degree and go into debt, that’s just what people do. 20 years later, still paying on the debt. That’s a sign you took on too much debt for your degree / career. (I know there are tax advantages to keep debt and it’s usually at a low interest rate, but the people I talk to are 30k - 100k in debt, 10+ years later, and they have the debt because they can’t pay it off, not for tax advantages). People need to go into college with their eyes open. I'm a millennial. I worked through college and lived at home for a good chunk of it. The biggest issue I see with direction from teachers and adults when I was young was "study what you enjoy, you'll be doing it the rest of your life." That's complete bullshit. That's why we have so many liberal arts majors that can't pay bills. They should have told us to study what will let us live the life we want. A lot of my friends graduated with biology, history or political science degrees and realized they didn't have a whole lot being offered to them. Some got masters and still felt the same way. They enjoyed what they studied in college, but never really looked past that. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 8:12:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: I don’t exactly agree with the title. Being drafted into a War would certainly suck more. However, it makes some interesting points regarding the macro economy. There’s always gonna be winners and losers, but for the average Millennial and subsequent generations, I do believe it’s been harder to get established, build wealth, escape debt, own a home, etc. Even for a frugal and well paid member of the GENX Master race, it’s been difficult to escape the gravity well of inflation. Decades of weak dollar policy, has made prices on big ticket items like houses and education shoot to the moon. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/27/millennial-recession-covid/ This is America man, there is always work for those who want it. The problem is that no snowflake wants to do anything more than the minimum to get by and are beneath anything lesser than they parents told them they deserve. A trade would get them more than their parent made, but that is getting hands dirty and hard work. Controls engineers have the world by the balls, but that means having to apply yourself,... and on and on, and on. They will figure it out in theorb30’s, Gap Decades will be the norm, and they will fall in line. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 8:59:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I had to do it all over I'd probably have become an eye surgeon/eyeglass doctor. Clean and $$$. I haven't used my BSBA, or my Comm/IFR/multi/, or my CDL "A" and passenger HazMat ect. in +15 years. (Although I did make a decent fortune previously -- using some of those "educations") Since then I've made decent money selling, and installing kitchen cabinets, Murphy Beds, Garage workshops, and California closets The future is unkown and you take your best shot at it. The USA is where you want to be. If anyone wishes to disagree, then lets have at it. Which country offers a better outlook? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm generationally fluid, so I don't really care one way or the other, however, a lot of Millennials got fucked by college costs and general economic bad luck. Same could be said for some boomers, but it was more government induced with Millennials and more widespread. I'm not saying that you should do anything about it, or even care. Just acknowledge it. If it's raining and cold come deer season, I'm going hunting. Was that tougher than perfect weather? Yes. Does it matter? Nope. If I had to do it all over I'd probably have become an eye surgeon/eyeglass doctor. Clean and $$$. I haven't used my BSBA, or my Comm/IFR/multi/, or my CDL "A" and passenger HazMat ect. in +15 years. (Although I did make a decent fortune previously -- using some of those "educations") Since then I've made decent money selling, and installing kitchen cabinets, Murphy Beds, Garage workshops, and California closets The future is unkown and you take your best shot at it. The USA is where you want to be. If anyone wishes to disagree, then lets have at it. Which country offers a better outlook? I don't think any country offers a better outlook. I honestly don't know why I even engage in these generational threads. I think that they just offer a place to post up witty banter, and not talk about the stupid riots, wuflu, or any number of things that are probably more important. Regardless, you seem like a pretty cool dude. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 9:12:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't buy it. Millennials have more opportunities for vertical movement than any previous generation. Most of them simply squander that opportunity in favor of YouTube videos and gaming. This. I employ almost 100 people. Millenials dont work. They dont know how to negotiate. It's going to be easy for my home schooled kids when they get older. There wont be any competition for them. They will easily rise to the top. They dont have cell phones or social media, or any of the bad habits the public schooled kids develop early on. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 9:19:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I employ almost 100 people. Millenials dont work. They dont know how to negotiate. It's going to be easy for my home schooled kids when they get older. There wont be any competition for them. They will easily rise to the top. They dont have cell phones or social media, or any of the bad habits the public schooled kids develop early on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't buy it. Millennials have more opportunities for vertical movement than any previous generation. Most of them simply squander that opportunity in favor of YouTube videos and gaming. This. I employ almost 100 people. Millenials dont work. They dont know how to negotiate. It's going to be easy for my home schooled kids when they get older. There wont be any competition for them. They will easily rise to the top. They dont have cell phones or social media, or any of the bad habits the public schooled kids develop early on. 
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Posted: 5/29/2020 9:23:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:I blame the Immigration Act of 1965 for destroying what the United States used to be for the previous generations. The full effects of the Immigration Act of 1965 were not fully felt (suffered) until the millennials became of age. Every generation before the Millennials had their problems for sure, but only the Millennials had to experience first hand the cultural enrichment. Sad but true. Things really began to go downhill after 9/11. One would have thought for sure the open borders immigration doors would have been slammed shut afterward. Instead they poured in even faster and heavy on the Muslims.. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 9:25:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I employ almost 100 people. Millenials dont work. They dont know how to negotiate. It's going to be easy for my home schooled kids when they get older. There wont be any competition for them. They will easily rise to the top. They dont have cell phones or social media, or any of the bad habits the public schooled kids develop early on. Lol, I'll go ahead and just say that anyone who says XX generation "doesn't work" is terrible at management. I have a hell of a lot more than 100 people who work for me, including a ton of millennials who work their ass off, and make a ton of money. Despite what the bitter boomers and doomer millennials may believe, there's tons of opportunity out there for people who want it. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 9:39:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Did a speed read of the article. Tag for later interest.
Late Gen Xer here  .I'll vouch for em'. Gen Y got ass raped economically. Many Ys started their careers during the 2008 recession. That was bad. My employer was Caterpillar at the time. We rescinded thousands of job offers. Workforce was cut by 30,000 people. As an Gen Xer, I was making six figures on a good year, working for CAT. I knew Gen Y Engineers, like myself, were making 35k a year, salaried, for shithole manufacturing companies. Buyers market from 2008-2011. Yeah. I kicked the fucking economic can down the road.. I'm retired on a private disability pension. I'm a huge drain on the Medicare and the Social Security system. Good luck with dealing with all the shit we kicked ya. I'd say count on Gen Z, but they are too busy eating Tide Pods. 
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Posted: 5/29/2020 9:46:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This one graph says most of what needs to be said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5IJKDSG4UFHADLHXKXTJUJG3KI.png&w=916 I'm entering my mid-30s, and the economy has been crap for most of my adult life. Even when things like unemployment numbers looked good, wages have been stagnant. The cost of most goods and services has been inflating while salaries have not. "Great. So we're all gonna die." --Bender  Notice that the cluster at the bottom end are the generations who served in; the War of 1812 that broke Europe, the fucking Civil War itself that destroyed the economy of half the nation's land mass, and WWI & its unprecedented scale of inhuman horrors. Each generation saw enormous death and destruction; for millenials' chart to follow those others, there must be similar damage that simply isn't being seen. Gigantic losses of opportunity cost, that rival a physical decimation of the population. Maybe WaPo is simply rigging the stats, but pretty serious rigging would be needed to obtain these results. Those plots are also averages; it would be fascinating to see scatter plots of each group's individuals starting at the 'start' birth year. Wars hold the numbers down because many individuals' curves simply end when they are killed, and no longer count toward the GDP. And though suicide is higher than it's been in a while, it's nowhere near the scale of a massive war, so that means the actual earning power of living/healthy people is collapsing even harder than it did in previous eras of extreme stress (largely due to poor choices as is always the case, but that is itself a symptom of there being a whole lot more poor options than good ones to pick from, compared to eras past) There's a bad moon on the rise. Hell, maybe it's already risen. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 10:05:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I don’t exactly agree with the title. Being drafted into a War would certainly suck more. However, it makes some interesting points regarding the macro economy. There’s always gonna be winners and losers, but for the average Millennial and subsequent generations, I do believe it’s been harder to get established, build wealth, escape debt, own a home, etc. Even for a frugal and well paid member of the GENX Master race, it’s been difficult to escape the gravity well of inflation. Decades of weak dollar policy, has made prices on big ticket items like houses and education shoot to the moon. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/27/millennial-recession-covid/ Huh? The worst thing about being a millennial is that the boomers decided to piss away all their money before they could pass it on. They have the entire archive of human history literally at their fingertips. Sex, tinder. Job, 1,000,000 websites. Investments, Vanguard. You can find out your starting salary, you expected income in 5 years, have an app tracking your retirement, and find some chick to give you a blowjob without even leaving your bed. But... No one looks at income vs college expenditures, WAAAAAAAHHHHH! College too expensive. I don't have money to retire, WAAAAAAAHHHHHH! $10 in starbucks daily. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 10:18:39 PM EDT
[#39]
My children are Millennials. They all have 6 figure incomes are working and doing well. They are having children and buying homes.
You make your own luck. Go to college and get bullshit degrees that are useless? That doesn't make you unlucky it makes you stupid. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 10:33:25 PM EDT
[#40]
I don't see Millenials raising a family as Migrants...picking food for Citots.
I Don't see but a few investing everything they have, and putting their backs into it alone with a Farm or enterprise other than Tech. They are either in a cube farm and whining non-stop, in a good job and expecting far more than they are worth while sniveling non-stop, spreading Communist anti-American bullshit Non-stop, or taking advantage of what was handed to them and flourishing. I have never met a Millenial Plumber.... I have met a shitload of Millenial Grunts. There is a separation, and the whiners come from shit parents in the Burbs and City's. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 10:49:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My children are Millennials. They all have 6 figure incomes are working and doing well. They are having children and buying homes. You make your own luck. Go to college and get bullshit degrees that are useless? That doesn't make you unlucky it makes you stupid. If all of your kids are millennials, have 6 figure incomes, and never went to college, than bravo sir. Bravo. 
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Posted: 5/29/2020 10:57:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If all of your kids are millennials, have 6 figure incomes, and never went to college, than bravo sir. Bravo. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/1zvslystz4-7.gif Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My children are Millennials. They all have 6 figure incomes are working and doing well. They are having children and buying homes. You make your own luck. Go to college and get bullshit degrees that are useless? That doesn't make you unlucky it makes you stupid. If all of your kids are millennials, have 6 figure incomes, and never went to college, than bravo sir. Bravo. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/1zvslystz4-7.gif He didn't say they didn't go to college, he said they didn't get useless degrees. In either case, yes, well done. There's lots of money out there, go out and get it. Or sit around and complain about immigrants, or other generations, or whatever else makes you feel better. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 10:59:32 PM EDT
[#43]
My Great Grandpa (in my avatar) and his generation had it worse than me (millenial). He was born poor as shit, after his mom died his POS dad dropped him off to work for his grandparents on their farm before he was 10. Drafted into WWI. Lucky for him he got sent to the new tank corps and got to Europe right as the war was ending so he helped with the aftermath/cleanup but a lot of his generation got there earlier. Endured through the Great Depression. Had his only two kids drafted into WWII (he filled out his draft card but was too old so didn't get drafted). Continued to work for the rest of his life as a poor farmer and died in the early 50's. Life full of nothing but hard work and disappointment. I'm much luckier than that even though I was poor growing up. I'm middle class now and don't have to worry about much. I can afford to have a comfortable life and not struggle to get by. I had the opportunity to volunteer for military service and wasn't forced into it and the war I took part in (OIF) wasn't anywhere near as horrific as WWI. My generation doesn't have it bad.
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Posted: 5/29/2020 11:01:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh? The worst thing about being a millennial is that the boomers decided to piss away all their money before they could pass it on. They have the entire archive of human history literally at their fingertips. Sex, tinder. Job, 1,000,000 websites. Investments, Vanguard. You can find out your starting salary, you expected income in 5 years, have an app tracking your retirement, and find some chick to give you a blowjob without even leaving your bed. But... No one looks at income vs college expenditures, WAAAAAAAHHHHH! College too expensive. I don't have money to retire, WAAAAAAAHHHHHH! $10 in starbucks daily. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don’t exactly agree with the title. Being drafted into a War would certainly suck more. However, it makes some interesting points regarding the macro economy. There’s always gonna be winners and losers, but for the average Millennial and subsequent generations, I do believe it’s been harder to get established, build wealth, escape debt, own a home, etc. Even for a frugal and well paid member of the GENX Master race, it’s been difficult to escape the gravity well of inflation. Decades of weak dollar policy, has made prices on big ticket items like houses and education shoot to the moon. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/27/millennial-recession-covid/ Huh? The worst thing about being a millennial is that the boomers decided to piss away all their money before they could pass it on. They have the entire archive of human history literally at their fingertips. Sex, tinder. Job, 1,000,000 websites. Investments, Vanguard. You can find out your starting salary, you expected income in 5 years, have an app tracking your retirement, and find some chick to give you a blowjob without even leaving your bed. But... No one looks at income vs college expenditures, WAAAAAAAHHHHH! College too expensive. I don't have money to retire, WAAAAAAAHHHHHH! $10 in starbucks daily. You've obviously never used Tinder. It's 80% of the men competing over 20% of the women, in a given area. It's a waste of time that the vast majority of men will find no success with. Sexual dynamics between men and wome in this cohort are at an all time low and have been for about a decade. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 11:01:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He didn't say they didn't go to college, he said they didn't get useless degrees. In either case, yes, well done. There's lots of money out there, go out and get it. Or sit around and complain about immigrants, or other generations, or whatever else makes you feel better. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My children are Millennials. They all have 6 figure incomes are working and doing well. They are having children and buying homes. You make your own luck. Go to college and get bullshit degrees that are useless? That doesn't make you unlucky it makes you stupid. If all of your kids are millennials, have 6 figure incomes, and never went to college, than bravo sir. Bravo. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/1zvslystz4-7.gif He didn't say they didn't go to college, he said they didn't get useless degrees. In either case, yes, well done. There's lots of money out there, go out and get it. Or sit around and complain about immigrants, or other generations, or whatever else makes you feel better. I'm good. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 11:15:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You've obviously never used Tinder. It's 80% of the men competing over 20% of the women, in a given area. It's a waste of time that the vast majority of men will find no success with. Sexual dynamics between men and wome in this cohort are at an all time low and have been for about a decade. I never had a problem getting laid after college. And I didn't need a website. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 11:58:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Avocado toast begs to differ.
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Posted: 5/30/2020 12:41:34 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I employ almost 100 people. Millenials dont work. They dont know how to negotiate. It's going to be easy for my home schooled kids when they get older. There wont be any competition for them. They will easily rise to the top. They dont have cell phones or social media, or any of the bad habits the public schooled kids develop early on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't buy it. Millennials have more opportunities for vertical movement than any previous generation. Most of them simply squander that opportunity in favor of YouTube videos and gaming. This. I employ almost 100 people. Millenials dont work. They dont know how to negotiate. It's going to be easy for my home schooled kids when they get older. There wont be any competition for them. They will easily rise to the top. They dont have cell phones or social media, or any of the bad habits the public schooled kids develop early on. So they don't know how to use things that all modern jobs will require you to be able to use with ease. Okay. ETA I employ 4 millennials and all 4 are fucking awesome and go the extra mile. I also have worked with millennial Marines for 20 years. Maybe you just fucking suck at hiring 
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Posted: 6/1/2020 11:55:00 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think a lot of the older folks understand how fucked the stagnant wages compared to rises in housing and education have really fucked everything in most areas. But alas GD likes to paint with broad brushes and just some tough love pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and getting off the youtubes and Sega Dreamcasts is all the younger generation needs to be successful. Also keep in mind if you think the younger generation is shit, then who were their parents (generations) that raised them???????? The public schools, daycare centers, and media personalities raised them. This is where Boomers and GenX have most failed |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 1:30:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't get why some boomas leave out the other half of that equation Compete with the world bucko! |
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