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To any concerned, all I am doing is listing the extent of the supposed conspiracies out there. Never did I say I believe them.
I'm sick of trying to work with a small number of really intelligent people whose opinions I seek, and ending up with comments from wise asses who had best keep their minds on guns. Don't bother, I'm "unsubscribed". |
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Quoted: The dope and fabric on the Hindenburg was standard on ALL fabric covered aircraft. That flamable stuff is still on some old aircraft. The stabilizers on some dc-3's are still fabric, I think the HIND has some fabric on it as well. View Quote The Hindenburg's covering was made more flamable due to the fact that powdered aluminum was added to give it the silvery color (to prevent the gas bags from overheating in flight). Powdered aluminum is often used as a component of rocket fuels and will burn quite intensely. |
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Quoted: Would you really, truly, want to know all of the truth about everything? Seriously, this country would panic! Sgtar15 View Quote I think this country already is! this country is being played like a fucking fiddle! oh! I think the plane got shot down by a 50 cal sniper rifle. [BS2] |
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Quoted: [b]My milspec tin foil helmet[/b] is proof against the most intense rumor.Now if we could only find that warehouse where the feds are keeping the Ark of the Covanant we would know all the secrets there are to know. View Quote no tinfiol hats are mil-spec there made differently to comply with the AWB section 922r. |
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After I was labeled a "conspiracy nut" by inumerable forum members, read Jack Cashill's book (forgot the title, but Amazon has several of his books, look at www.cashill.com) he has proved that Flight 800 was a terrorist attack as was Hobart Towers, the bomb knapsack found by security guard (he was blamed for it by the FBI) at the summer olympics. And that Ron Brown had a .45 slug in his head and it was covered up.
It's was all part of a ongoing massive Government/media coverup to keep the American public calm. In one of Kerry's speeches recently he mentioned a series of terrorist attacks on this country he wanted to blame on Pres. Bush and the list he mentioned included Flight 800, but nobody caught it. Kerry was on some intelligence committee for a number of years and he heard testimony of insider information. ...anyway. Don't believe everything you read in the newspapers.www.cashill.com] |
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How could President Bush be responsible for something that happened in '96? That was Klinton's term and a few years after Bush Sr.! |
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C-5 hit by Iraqi SAM
www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/19126/ DHL A300 hit by Iraqi SAM C-17 hit by Iraqi SAM. None of them crashed. Please replace your aluminum foil at this time. |
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The official TWA 800 story has as much holes as the official Waco/Branch Davidian story.
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LOGIC TIME, BOYS AND GIRLS!
TWA 800 LWilde has covered much of it and quite elegantly so in regards to a missile attack and the reasons why the empty fuel tank exploded (fuel-air explosion, same way the MOAB works). Why didn't they ground every aircraft? It was well over a year before the findings were issued and no other plane went down in that time. Clearly, it was a danger but not an urgent one. IIRC, plans were implimented to put retrofit all airliners over several years with inert gas filling systems for empty tanks and all new aircraft should be designed with them.
He was involved with the theft of and tampered with crash evidence and interfered with an ongoing crash invesitagion! That is illegal! That is why he is in jail!
but doesn't pass a simple BS test. That seat cover was INSIDE the plane. The missile exhaust would have been OUTSIDE the plane. When the missile blew up OUTSIDE the plane, the missile exhaust coming out of the BACK END of hte missile IMMEDIATLY CEASED, WAS BLOWN BACKWARDS AND IMMEDIATLY FELL BEHIND the plane. The plane did not immediatly completely break up either, so the seats were still inside. "Missile exhaust residue" on the seat cushions is IMPOSSIBLE. -------------- #1 Rule of Aircraft Crash Investigation: BENT METAL DOESN'T LIE Explosions from outside bend the metal inwards. Explosions from the inside bend the metal outwards. There was no metal bent inwards in any sort of pattern to suggest an external explosion. They did not find chemical explosive residue or pitting characteristic with a bomb blast either.
Actually, at least 8 DIFFERENT terrorist groups claimed credit. It is very common for terrorists to claim credit for various accidents whether they were caused by human error, mechanical failure, or terrorist attack because you must disprove it, hard to do, and paranoia lends credence to their claim even as illustrated by this thread. It is free propoganda. If nobody claimed credit, you would have a good point. However, that groups (multiple) claimed credit, doesn't really mean anything. ----------- If TWA800 is a coverup, its probably the biggest coverup in history. The FBI, NTSB, FAA, ATC, and military are all involved and nobody is leaking C'MON! CRITICAL THINKING! You wrapped that tinfoil too tightly. ------------------------------------ AA Flight that Crashed in PN on 9-11: Shot down? I could see this as a possibiltiy. If it was, they certainly wouldn't want it to come out now that a shot down a plane while it was being retaken by passengers? However, wouldn't it be procedure for the F-16 pilot to get up next to the plane and in view and attempt to get it to divert before taking the drastic action of killing US civilians? Wouldn't that have been recorded on the CVR? "ACHMED! AMERICAN FIGHTER OFF THE PORT BOW! OH SHIT!" "OH SHIT! PISSED OFF PASSENGERS OFF THE STERN! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" If they did shoot it down, WHY WOULD THEY RAKE THE CABIN? Wouldn't they get close and shoot at the wings/engines? Debris field... the plane augored in at great speed... Depending on the angle of impact that would have easily spread debris over 1 mile.... also with that speed perhaps it was breaking up before impact. The pictures that I saw showed the vast majority of the debris in a small area that looked like the plane came in at a steep angle. |
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I heard on a radio show where somebody claimed one of the engines from the plane that went down in PA was 8 miles away from the crash site. This "evidence" he used to substantiate the claim that it was shot down. Has anyone else heard this?
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TWA 800 was operating at an altitude well out of range of any known shoulder-fired missile. Shoulder-fired SAMs are designed for close range use against low-flying helicopters & ground strike aircraft, NOT large transports operating at high altitude... Further, operations in Iraq have shown that a civillian 747 (DHL cargo plane) can survive such a hit without exploding...
20mm will not cause a 747 to explode in flight... Cannon fire will easily bring down a commercial plane, maybe set it on fire, but not blow it up... The wreckage field was consistant with a shallow-angle impact... [EDITED BECAUSE THIS IS AN OLD OLD THREAD AND I ACCIDENTALLY POSTED THE SAME THING I POSTED AT THE BEGINNING WHEN IT WAS NEW] |
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Don't forget the crash of Flight 587 in Queens, New York on December 5th, 2001. The one where the tail 'fin' mysteriously just fell off? I'm sure all planes were fitted with new tails afterwards...
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I think the truth has just been spoken. Planerench out |
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It's the vapor. OBIGGS (On Board Inert Gas Generation systems) systems are on many military aircraft. They are not on any (that I am aware of) commericial aircraft, but I believe that they will be in the future. See: http://www.medal.airliquide.com/en/membranes/obiggs/index.asp |
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Another note on flight 93: The only pictures I remeber seeing of the wreckage looked to be from about 800yds away.
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Yea!!! Thats what I was referring to. FAA requires it on new aircraft designs and I think requires a retrofit over the next 7 years for many existing airliners. |
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I was at Baghdad International when a DHL Cargo Boeing 737 was hit by a SA-7 missle. You know what happened? It hit one of the two engines on the plane, the plane continued to ascend in altitude, turned around and came in for a smooth landing. TWA 800 was too high up for a shoulder launched missle, and even if it was a missle that could reach that high, it would have struck one of the 747's four engines not the fuselage. I saw a plane with only two engines lose 50% of it's engines and it still was able to fly and land. Also, Boeing has been warning airlines through their Boeing Service Action Bulletins about the dangers of frayed wires in the fuel tank since the 1970s. They even used words like "center tank explosion" "mid-flight explosion" stuff like that. Occam's Razor- the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Which is more likely? A terrorist shot down an airliner that is about 5'000 feet above the maximum range of a sophisacated missle, successfully got away on a high speed boat, did not claim responsibilty, and then the government covers it up and all of the people who know the truth (which would be at least dozens) would successfully keep quiet when a handfull of soldiers can't even keep the "Naked Human Pyramids" secert? Or that it was frayed wires that sits in a pool of extremely flammable liquid and that a spark which even the manufactor was warning about for 20 years set off the fumes in this pool of flammable liquid? I think option B is the more realistic one. |
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The commericial airliners now fill the tank up and just keep the wires under liquid. There was a thing I saw where they don't make manuevers that will cause the wires to be out of liquid (like steep banking and things) |
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"Airworthiness Directive
Amendment 39-3439; AD 79-06-02 BOEING Model 747 Series Airplanes DATES: Effective April 19, 1979 79-06-02 BOEING: Amendment 39-3439. Applies to Boeing Model 747 series airplanes certificated in all categories. Compliance required as indicated on Group I and Group II airplanes as identified in Boeing Alert Service Bulletin 747-28-A2092. To prevent abrasion of fuel tank boost pump electrical wires, accomplish the following: .... A. Within 750 hours time in service or two (2) months after the effective date of this Airworthiness Directive, whichever comes first, unless already accomplished on Group I airplanes with 30,000 hours or more time in service and Group II airplanes with 6000 hours or more time in service, inspect, repair and modify the Number 1 and Number 4 main fuel tank boost pump wiring in the conduits in main fuel tanks Numbers 2 and 3 in accordance with Boeing Alert Service Bulletin 747-28-A2092 dated February 12, 1979, or later FAA approved revision. Equivalent inspections, repairs and modifications may be used when approved by the Chief, Engineering and Manufacturing Branch, FAA Northwest Region, 9010 East Marginal Way South, Seattle, Washington 98108. The manufacturer's specifications and procedures identified and described in this directive are incorporated herein and made a part hereof pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 552(a)(1). All persons affected by this directive who have not already received these documents from the manufacturer, may obtain copies upon request to Boeing Commercial Airplane Company, Post Office Box 3707, Seattle, Washington 98124. These documents may also be examined at FAA Northwest Region, 9010 East Marginal Way South, Seattle, Washington 98108. This amendment becomes effective April 19, 1979. " This is exactly what they said caused TWA 800 to explode. The fuel tank boost pump electical wires, and you can see by the date of 1979 that Boeing always believed it was possible for TWA 800 to do what it did. Boeing has been warning airlines to check the wiring to make sure it wasn't frayed for years! And when it happens you get a nut on here that say "I have a friend of a friend of a friend that's worked in Boeing, he designed the 747 series and he says it's impossible for this to happen and Boeing has disputed the findings of the investigation, blah blah blah" but yet Boeing told airliners in Boeing Alert Service Bulletion 747-28-A2092 dated from 1979 that it was imperative to check the eletrical wiring that sits in a huge fuel tank of extremely flammable liquid. Gee, who would have guessed? |
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I always thought that jet fuel was not flammable except in a vaporized form, or fumes. Everyone seems to forget that it was the Flight 800 explosion coverup that blamed the fuel pump spark. Richard Clark (see his book) reported this to the FAA and the Whitehouse after he had spoken to one random inspector in the warehouse where the wreckage was being assembled. And the eager press ran with it as something to get Clinton's problems off the front pages (Selling China nuclear secrets, Ron Brown, Vince Foster, Whitewater, etc., etc.) Clark admited he also changed the report to read 18,000 feet instead of the 13,000 feet shown on the radar tapes (that disappeared). Clark was a brown nose and eager to be noticed.
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"Q. Are you aware of the conclusions reached by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, a party to the investigation just like Boeing, TWA, and the Airline Pilots Association?
A. I’ve heard about their report and the fact that it’s very good, but I’ve never read it. Q. Let me read a small portion to you and ask for a comment. The report stated: "An explosion did occur within the center fuel tank during TWA Flight 800. We have not been a party to any evidence, wreckage or tests that could conclude that the center tank explosion was and is the primary contributor to this accident.... We find that its explosion was as the result of the aircraft breakup. The initial event caused a structural failure in the area of Flight station 854 to 860, lower left side of the aircraft. A high-pressure event breached the fuselage and the fuselage unzipped due to the event. The explosion was a result of this event." Doesn’t this square with your own assessment of this tragedy? A. It certainly does, even to pinpointing the lower left side of the aircraft as the site of the "initial event." This conclusion totally discredits the NTSB’s theory." Read entire interview at: www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2000/12-04-2000/vo16no25_twa800.htm |
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turbodipshit - now you want to back up a debunked theory by citing a blowhard liar like Clark??
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Not a 747, geeze, don't you read my posts?
It was a DHL Airbus A300.
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See above post.
Sheesh.
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My bad, you're right. I was on the ground when it happened, I saw a plane with two engines that looked like a 737, easy mistake. Still doesn't make a difference, a SAM missle would not have caused the plane to simply blow up in mid air, but a fuel tank explosion could. |
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Uhm, the fuel tank on the 747 design does heat up a bit which they are currently trying to reduce that. This heating would vaporize the fuel. My father is working on the Flammability Reduction System (known as FRS) as a design engineer for Honeywell. He says a large portion of that system is lowering the temperature of the fuel tank so as to cause less vaporization of the fuel. He also stated that the competitors who orignally made the parts for the fuel tank didn't have much concern over the heat that was put into the fuel system and that was one of the reasons Boeing gave the contract to Honeywell instead. He also stated that four 747 airliners have blown up from similar causes (wiring in the fuel tank causing a spark) but he is asleep right now and I will get those four later. 13,000 feet is still high for a missle, even if what Clark claims is true, which I would need another source but Clark, I don't trust him. |
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More photos of what an surface to air portable missle would do to an airliner (note - it doesn't blow up)
Also, the ceiling for the stinger missle, one of the most advanced shoulder launched anti-aircraft missles is given as 10,000 feet, which is still less than 13,000 feet. FIM-92A Stinger Weapons System Notice that the warheads for the Stinger, SA-7, SA-14 and most other portable missles are contact fuzed. Most of the theories I have seen explain the fact that the fuselage was the first thing to go and where the most damage was was because of a proximity burst warhead, which most missles are not. The missle would have gone for an engine and would have had to actually hit the plane to detonate. IR guided missles would strike an engine, a wing close to the engine, or the tail of the aircraft (maybe going after the APU, but not likely). It wouldn't hit the fuselage. Note on the type of fuze for a stinger "Warhead Section The warhead section consists of a fuze assembly and the equivalent of one pound of high explosives encased in a pyrophoric titanium cylinder. The fuze is extremely safe and makes the missile exempt from any hazards of electromagnetic radiation to ordnance conditions. The warhead can be detonated by penetrating the target, impacting the target, or self-destruction. Self-destruction occurs 15 to 19 seconds after launch." |
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Roosevelt wanted the war in Europe. the best thing that ever happened to him was when the Germans and Italians Declared War on the US after we declared on Japan.
As far as the embargoes forcing the Japanese into the war, that totally ignores all of the Japanese build-up since the turn of the century with the goal of taking on the US and British. Most of the conspiracy theories stem from the initial investigations during the war . Nobody that knew about the code-breaking ability was willing or talked about it, which led to a variety of people avoiding disclosure by telling a variety of stories that didn't mesh. 20/20 hindsight and release of later classified reports shows that incompetence at the Hawaii Commands was the primary cause of most of the destruction. Washington knew that something was iminent and Japanese diplomats were burning papers. Put deriving that the Japanese are attacking at 8:00 in two days from burning papers when the two countries were still nominally talking was and is a hell of a stretch as is trying to convince me that everybody above the rank of Lt. Cdr on both sides knew and have kept quiet for 60 years. Because for the Japanese to arrive in coordination with FDR's connivance, would take a massive conspiracy and there is no way it could have been silenced. We know all about the Atlantic stuff, was that a massive cover? You know the Atlantic Charter? the Coast Guard PBY that found the Bismarck, the Reuben James, you think there wasn't one diehard Republican that wouldn't have blown the whistle? Explain how you could keep the number of people involved quiet? Same thing with trying to keep the crew of a Navy ship quiet after shooting down Flt. 800, you have the crew, the Weapons Station folks that track and service the missiles, etc etc etc. Well it wasn't shoulder fired it was bigger. Oh that makes even more sense. From where with what system, how did the system get there? how did they assign the target from search to to track to targeting radars? These conspiracy theories always rely on hundreds to thousands of nefarious people enforcing a code of silence. You know how hard it is to keep people from talking? geez give me a frigging break |
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See new book, "Cover Up" by Peter Lance about Flight 800.
All those that called me a kook please jump off the Golden Gate bridge. |
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Ummm...no. People write books all the time. There are shelves and shelves full of books claiming that UFOs are alien spacecraft, lost Atlantis is under the Antartic ice etc etc etc... The fact the books exist don't prove the claims they make. |
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Three months after the last post, you restart it to tell us about a fucking book??????????? I suppose every book every written was absolute fact, huh? Pathetic. |
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"....you might try a book someday." |
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