I had to sign a new parenting plan cause my ex wants to take the kids and move to Oregon. Sooo, just above my signature I wrote "I sign this reluctantly". Well, I guess the judge wasn't too impressed with it and he refused to sign off on it. But I want my kids to know that I am not happy about them moving away. And I know my ex is the type of person to hold this paper up to the kids and say "see, your dad wants you to move". It was the only way I could voice my displeasure in a permanent way. Should I relent and erase that statement and re-sign or should I play hardball and go before a judge. I do want this nighmare to end but I also want my daughters to know that I love them. Woe is me.

Divorce is just a nasty business. Sorry dude, I`d stick to yer guns

Tell the bitch to leave the kids and she can go anywhere she damned well pleases, otherwise, she'd better get used to the idea of living in WA. Gotta play hardball dude. Those kids are depending on you. They need a dad MORE than they need a mom, trust me.

In fact, if you don't insist on a parenting plan that has the kids with you at least three days per week, I'm going to kick your ass, how's that? [:)]

Those kids are depending on you. They need a dad MORE than they need a mom, trust me.


Don't know about more...but I do know they need a father figure

I'm positive about "more". Just look at this instance. She thinks she can just move away and everything will be just dandy. Bullshit.

Who would you rather have raising the kids, based on this tiny bit of info. If I were a judge, not only would I not sign off on it, but I would award him full custody til she figures out that the kids needs outweigh her wants by about a thousand times.

This is not, I repeat, not a flame. I'm just making a point, and it may sound like one.

Just to ad some backgropund here, I went through a three year divorce war myself. There were a thousand times when it was "too hard" or "too painful" and that I just wanted to get it over with. But every time I thought that way, I thought of what it would feel like for my daughter to think that her dad did not love her enough to fight for her, and what it would feel like to me, to see her drugged out, and pregnant at 15, because that's where kids end up that are raised by single moms with no sense of what is important for their kids.

I risked it all, and lost most of it, but my daughter is here three to four days per week (tonight, in fact) and is doing wonderfully, both socially and academically. Yeah, it's hard playing Mr. Mom, harder than anything I've ever done, but man is it worth it. [:)]

I went through this about two years ago. Luckily, my wife and I decided to give it one more shot.  We are still married, happy, most of the time.   Before that happened, my lawyer and I had a long talk about how ugly I wanted it to get to keep my kids(she filed).  Not a situation I want to be in or have my kids in.  

He did say that if we had gone through with it. I could have gotten  a stipulation that she would have to bring the kids to see me every other weekend or even more often, no matter how far she decided to move away.  I would fight like hell to make sure you get to see your kids.  I don't think I could have lived with myself if I had just let them go.  I never had to find out, thank God!  Several of my friends have considered divorce but always end up working it out, or staying in misery for the kids.  I don't know if this is right or selfish, but it sure is hard to deal with.  
Hope it works out for ya, unreal how hard it is to think about saying good-bye to the ones you love more than anything.
guns762

Got lots of experience in that department bro.

Except, in my case the kid is actually my step son.  

My wife left his dad (total prick!) 3 days after the boy was born.  Moved from Atlanta to Tennessee.

Now, in our case the judge and all attorneys knew that my wife had been abused and agreed that her ex was a total POS.  But, all that being the case the Ex still had those parental rights.

For the most part our ordeal has been fairly doable and livable.  The ex long ago signed a ruling that said he would be responsible for all transportation and expenses incurred in that transportation.  That worked fine for 5 years but then guess what?

He up and took us to court cause he wanted us to pay for his travel expenses and he wanted more time for visitation.

Well the judge ruled against any of that shit and the only thing that changed was the ex having the option to fly our kid to Atlanta at his expense.  

I guess what I am leading up to is that you will certainly win no favors by being a jerk in court, not that you have been but you will also get railroaded if you don't stand firm on what you know to be legally and morally solid ground.


Do you have an attorney?  Is he well versed in custody issues?

Why is she moving?  Was this adequately presentetd in court and is the move reasonably justifiable?

How far away is the move?  To what extent if any have your visitation rights been altered?

Tennessee has what is called "Shared Parenting".  I don't know if this is exclusive to TN or is nationwide.

Personally I would erase the statement cause it only serves to enforce that you may be a difficult person in the eyes of the court.  I know I know........the courts do suck a great big wanger!

Be that as it may you should still erase the statement.  But, if going before a judge is still within your rights then by all means [b][size=5]DO IT![/b][/size=5].  Do not fail to take every legal advantage that you may have.

You should also explain to your daughters that you very much do not want them to move.

Knowing the truth directly from you, however confusing their mother may make it later, is still best for them.

Then, if you go to court, present your side and still get the same deal then you will have done all you can.

Do not let the courts take away any of your visitation rights.

I know my case was different but I learned a lot by observing my wifes ex and his point of view..........or maybe I should say to the extent that the courts acknowledged his point of view.

Anyhow.  The ordeal is totally exhausting.  I served as liason between our attorney and my wife in our case.  I had also spent many years in court with my job and kinda knew my way around a bit.

Good luck with this whole thing.

Hang in there and keep your daughters foremost in your mind.

I've told her many times to go and leave the kids with me. Her answer "they want to live with me". Sure, why not. No bed time, no supervision, no structure, no discipline. What kid would voluntarily give that up? All I can hope for is they will, in a year or two, get tired of living with her and decide to come back home to me. The parenting plan does call for holidays and vacation visitation. But they will be to far to see every other weekend. The state has also placed a 15 year old boy in the house and made her a foster mother in the process. My daughters are 15 and 12. Theres just no way I can fight this. I wasn't even consulted by the CPS about it. Its really a screwed deal. My attorney told me "theres no law against being a bad mother".

That's why you don't ever say that goodbye, unless you are penniless, and living on the street, after fighting with everything you have. It's time for us men to JUST SAY NO!!!!

Good God!

How can the state justify placing a 15 year old male foster child into a recently broken home with girls aged 15 and 12?

Have you and your attorney pursued the angle of reasonable fear for the safety and well being of your female children?

That is just the most screwed thing I have ever heard of!

Again, how far away is the proposed move and why is she moving?

Please elaborate if you feel that you can.

What's their answer to you? She can say all she wants to say, but what do they say?

The minute an unrelated 15 year old boy moves into my ex's house is the day I take my kid and leave the state. That's bullshit! See this stuff bwilder10h? What kind of kids "need" that?

Attornies are fond of telling you crap like that. There is a law against being a bad mother, if you're the mother of my kid. My law.

Here's what worked pretty good for me. Anytime you are in court, or in conference with her liar, I mean lawyer and her present, turn every "deal" they try to make right around and throw it back at them. She says: "I'm moving to OR, and you can see the kids once a month and for two weeks in the summer." You say: "You move to OR, and I'll send the kids to you once a month and for two weeks in the summer." She says:"That's a nutty idea." You say: "yes, it is, isn't it. You better just stay here then."

My ex wanted the cash equivilent of half of my business at one point. I told her and her liar that I would give her the whole thing, and she could give me the cash equivilent of half of it, and child support payments. [:)]

You have to make her say that her own ideas are ridiculous, by turning them around on her.

Quote from rainman -



Let me get this straight, your ex-wife is a foster parent for a 15 y.o. boy, unrelated to her in any way, that lives with your ex- and the two daughters?

Good God have mercy! You should be kicking up a lot of s--t over that little development!

Eric The Hun

X-Kill---you got me by the short hairs.

She's moving to Seaside Oregon to run her aunts small retail business. About 300 miles away. Uses the excuse that she will be close to family and be able to spend more time with the kids. The business will eventually become hers. A better life for the kids, and so on. How the hell it can be better for the kids when they are 300 miles away from their dad is beyond me.

It can't be better. If she wants to destroy their lives for some money, then she shouldn't be a mother.

Stand your ground!!!! I did and I have had custody for 10 years now!!! This is a very rare thing in Ohio for a man to get custody. If you believe in it, stick with it!!! I knew my gut feeling was right and now after 9 years of their "mom" not even speaking to them you tell me!! "Was I right" I THINK SO!!!!

EricTheHun--Believe me man, I've talked to the CPS, the high school counselor who helped put it all together, threatened law suits, the whole nine yards. I know now the state knows whats better for my kids than I do.

I've also shown great restraint in remaining within the law about this whole thing. Nothing I would like better than to act like a cowboy and take care of it my way.

They are girls. They want to live with their mom. I'm not going to force them to live with me.

I only hope they will change their mind in the near future. And in the mean time are safe and wise.

You have an ally in that judge. Use that to your advantage. There must be something that he sees that he doesn't like, or he would have cut her loose already. And it wasn't what you wrote, I'm fairly certain.

You need a better lawyer.  Lack fo a structured environment can be interpreted can be construed as child neglect..   FIGHT IT!!!

There is a fathers' right group out there somewhere.  I would do a search on the internet.  They can probably refer you to a good lawyer to represent your rights.  Children need a father.  Good luck.  

Well....have to tell ya............sounds like her story of wanting to make a better life for her kids and needing to help run a family business is a viable one.

300 miles is quite a little jaunt for sure.

Man......sounds like things are easier back here in Tennessee.

[b]How are your visitation rights being attended to?[/b]

Considering the distance has it been taken into account the difficulty with which you will be presented in spending quality family time with your kids?

How does the system propose to maximize your time with the girls and by what means are they to be made available to you?

In our case the thing the scares me to death is the fact that if my wife were killed are otherwise became deceasd that our kid would go to Atlanta and I would have zero visitation rights.


I'd loose a wife and a child.

Gimme' some more feedback rainman.

X Kill--Right now i'm only 10 miles away. Kids can see me as often as they want. Current plan calls for every other weekend. But as long as we [ex&I] agree, they can stay as long as they want [days off school-long weekends, spring break etc.] Also alternate holidays. And that has been working ok. New plan calls for pretty much the same except every other weekend is now history because of the distance. Its at least a 6 1/2 hr drive one way. They will have to board a bus for the trip up here and back. I just hope they don't back out too often. It would be 24 hours of driving to pick them up and bring them back to my house and return them. I really think within a year they will be unhappy down there and change their minds.

And yes, her story is a viable one and I know theres no judge that would stop her from moving. At best, I could maybe request a check by the social services once in a while and report back to me on their welfare.

Sounds very familiar.

Typically in TN if both parents live within a reasonable distance of each other then visitation is every other week end.  Otherwise, the courts at least see to it that the out of state parent has maximum time for visits.

We drive 400 miles a month for two RT to the airport in Memphis so ours can fly to ATL.

He is also gone on long week ends, alternating major holidays and approx 1/2 of each school break (6 weeks a year.)

My wifes ex used to drive the 8 hrs up here, pick up the kid, then get right back on the road and drive back again.

For us, we'd rather him fly cause it is safer and his a-hole of a dad is not on our door steps.  He will be lucky if I don't crush him within his lifetime.

Looks like the best you can do is get the most allowed time possible and be sure that one way or another you see your girls.  They will go through stages of blaming you but if you show them consistency and love they will sonn come to understand that you mean what you say.

Hate that you have to go through this.  There is always a price.

I did not have any children with my ex.  We were together for 12 years.

Would have been hell on earth if I had to deal with her over custody issues.  

She went to Bonkers City and never came back..............

Good luck Bro and hang in there.

E-mail me any time you like.

Addding "under duress" by your name would've been more appropriate. It seems to get the same response from power figures though.
Good luck.