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Posted: 5/16/2001 12:13:19 PM EDT
[i]Just an analysis of a hypothetical (Lord, hear my prayers) situation that may be coming our way. I am not an extremist, nor am I sure that this may happen, but it is interesting to think that if this happens, what advantages or disadvantages there might be.[/i] I don't know about the majority of the people here, but I do know that some people are watching the U.N. conference on small arms very carefully. We may be looking at a change in how we have to deal with the threat of loss of our firearms, our freedoms, and our personal safety. Has anyone given consideration to the fact that in as few as 3 or 4 months, we may have a problem where the U.N. votes that we give up our guns, or get kicked out?
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:13:54 PM EDT
OLD scenario - U.S. Govt takes our guns NEW scenario - United Nations takes our guns OLD - If today, G.W. Bush will be blamed, counted as a traitor, and the fight will end quickly. But more likely, years from now. NEW - G.W. Bush will have his hands tied... "I'm not taking your guns, the U.N. is, and we must be a part of the U.N."... Do you honestly feel that we will let ourselves get kicked out? OLD - Today, our soldiers would go AWOL, and likely resist more violently than the people. Later, perhaps not as many, but a good portion would still be part of that group... with full-auto goodies that we don't have. NEW - Those soldiers who have no problem wearing blue helmets will have no problem taking our guns by force. They will be fortified with an international force from places that don't allow guns, such as England... OLD - We resist, but we only have to battle our own country, and resolve the problems within our country through the "New Revolution". NEW - We resist and we fight, and we will likely come under fire from the rest of the world. The "New Revolution" would spill over into the rest of the world, where every fighter would be turned into an outcast, a rebel against not only his own country, but against the socialistic nature of the rest of the world. And where are the fighters? We are the last of a dying breed, a country which is vocal, and has an armed populace. OLD - Martial law is hard to impose, as unconstitutional, manpower is low, soldiers deserting, etc. NEW - Martial law is imposed by an entity that does not believe in our God given rights. Manpower is high, as they draw from a multi-national force that is populated by non-Americans. Soldier desertion would be low, as most of the soldiers will be told that the American gun culture that you and I are a part of, is based around lawlessness and defiance of the greater good of the world. OLD - Due process, search warrants, and other constitutional "problems" that get in the way that the grabbers have to solve. Legal issues troubling everyone along the way, and enough time to rally support from the sportsman who finally realize, albeit to late, that the rights are being lost. NEW - No consitution to follow, raids occur in a methodical fashion. Your home invaded, your neighbor, your family, and all who resist will be presumed criminals, and eliminated or carted off quickly. Your name on an NCIS check, a DROS form, AR15.COM or anywhere else would be a presumption of guilt, and you would be on the first wave of raids. OLD - Incrementalism, lasting 20-50 years as the guns are taken away bit by bit. Gun buybacks, measures to destroy, legislate, etc, would cost billions of dollars, and a chance for more of us to prepare in the last years. NEW - Blue helmets enforce the changes quickly, resulting in a matter of months. There is no preparation, there is no billions spent on buybacks, legistlation, arguments, and all of the stealth gun grabbers have a scapegoat. Am I off base on thse items? Where might I be wrong? Additionally, what other areas do you think would benefit the gun grabbers through a UN gun grab versus the US gun grab?
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:33:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2001 12:32:00 PM EDT by Death_By_AR15]
Gentlemen, this is a [b]very[/b] scary thing. It is one thing when our OWN govenment takes our Contitutional rights away, but when other countries say what we can and cannot do in our homeland, it is much worse. NO American should stand for this. Even the antis. This will be my line in the sand. Rounds will definately fly from my rifles if bluehelmets step foot in my hometown.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 12:55:45 PM EDT
For MANY years people were warned about this action, specifically under "DEPARTMENT OF STATE PUBLICATION 7277" which was released in 1961. You know what that responses were? "You are crazy", "you are just a conspiracy theorist", and more recently "where is your tin foil hat". Well dumbasses, now it is nearing end game. I say screw all you rose colored glasses wearing lemmings. The U.S. deserves all it gets for having an apathetic and condescending population. DEPARTMENT OF STATE PUBLICATION 7277 [url]dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/arms/freedom_war.html[/url] Here is an interesting world governance timeline: [url]www.sovereignty.net/p/gov/timeline.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:16:50 PM EDT
If blue helmets show up, they will recieve a very "warm" welcome. This will not happen. They will take control through much more subtle means. Gradual villification of gun owners and ever increasing criminalization of lawfully obtained firearms as has already started. Look for the situation to get much worse. I sometimes wish they would try confiscation by force on a mass scale. At least then the "line" would be clear and definitive action could be taken.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:17:44 PM EDT
Does anyone here seriously believe that the UN could initiate a gun grab in the USA and be successful at it? They can't disarm starving peasants in tiny, wimp-ass African nations. What the hell do you think they could do against people like us? Such an action would galvanize millions of Americans into action. Can you imagine how many armed insurgents would be roaming the countryside looking for blue helmets to waste? If anything, the US is becoming less inclined to be bullied by the UN. Sorry guys, but it's going to take an awful lot more chicanery on the globalists' part to see their agenda to fruition.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:33:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2001 1:33:22 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
The UN doesn't need much when they have a sympathetic media. Ya millions of Americans will be galvanized into action all right: TO TURN IN PEOPLE LIKE YOU. It will be just like when they were hooked on "Survivor", but this time they will be restlessly waiting for the newest reality based t.v. show: "America's Most Wanted: Domestic Terrorists". On this nightly broadcast, there would be a dynamic entry performed on an anti-(UN)government extremist LIVE on t.v. Also, viewers would be encouraged with cash and prizes to call in with information on other enemies of the state. See how easy it is?
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:43:54 PM EDT
I don't think you'll actually see any "blue" helmets when they outlaw private gun ownership. The police will be in charge of "enforcing" the new laws that would take effect. Many gun owners will "choke" and give up their weapons. The ones that resist will be killed by SWAT teams. The ones that hide their weapons will be turned in by "good citizens" if their cache is known or found out. Between the soccer moms and the UN's pressure for "world disarmament" the lawmakers will eventually buckle to the stupidity that these antigun idiots spew out. The gun owners that make a stand for their god given right of self preservation and self defense will be made criminals and labeled "subversives" to the general public. The ignorant morons who are a majority of our population will support all the raids and deaths of all these "subversive" threats to national security. If they make the laws happen, the police are sworn to uphold them. It will be a sad tragic day.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 1:55:07 PM EDT
Imbrog, a very fitting post for your #1500. You hit the nail on the head. I quote: [b]"The UN doesn't need much when they have a sympathetic media. Ya millions of Americans will be galvanized into action all right: TO TURN IN PEOPLE LIKE YOU. It will be just like when they were hooked on "Survivor", but this time they will be restlessly waiting for the newest reality based t.v. show: "America's Most Wanted: Domestic Terrorists". On this nightly broadcast, there would be a dynamic entry performed on an anti-(UN)government extremist LIVE on t.v. Also, viewers would be encouraged with cash and prizes to call in with information on other enemies of the state. See how easy it is?"[/b] Indeed it would be that easy. The few "patriots" that do exist consist of a very tiny portion of the population. As with any society, those who are misunderstood (gun owners) become feared, become hunted. Seriously, how many of you would [b]really[/b] be ready to pull the trigger? Unless you were in a very rural area you wouldn't get to pull that trigger many times before you were turned in by the neighbors and cornered by the huge number of [i]local, state and federal law enforcement officers[/i] (who all get their paychecks [i]from[/i] big brother). Sadly, I believe we are well past the point where anything could be done to turn the tide. Plainly put, there are simply not enough Americans left who would be willing to fight for freedom. CMOS
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 2:22:16 PM EDT
...no point in trying to live forever[;)] most people debunk the UN's ability for social change because they only look at military might. the UN's biggest threat to american sovereignty is political and social. the UN will never enforce an immediate gun-ban, because incrementalisms works so well. they will continue on their path and i will continue on mine, alone or not, it does not matter. everything the founding fathers feared has happened, or is in the process of happening. ohh well there goes the republic[:)] [uzi] [};)] waiting for a counter-culture lib
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 2:23:09 PM EDT
...no point in trying to live forever[;)] most people debunk the UN's ability for social change because they only look at military might. the UN's biggest threat to american sovereignty is political and social. the UN will never enforce an immediate gun-ban, because incrementalisms works so well. they will continue on their path and i will continue on mine, alone or not, it does not matter. everything the founding fathers feared has happened, or is in the process of happening. ohh well there goes the republic[:)] [uzi] [}:)] waiting for a counter-culture lib
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 2:29:38 PM EDT
You guys are SO pessimistic. And you're right. Maybe if we could convince the public that UN domination would mean that women would have to stay at home and take care of their children and that UN domination would mean the end to Professional Wrestling, the NBA, and the NFL, we could muster some resistance!!! "To a liberal, any individual liberty is a loophole."
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 2:37:44 PM EDT
You got that right. As long as the UN keeps the food, f*cking and football coming, then the sheeple would even agree to toilet paper and bread lines like they had in the soviet union.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 2:48:56 PM EDT
The UN has little or no say so in anything going on in this country in real time. We may have let ourselves get involved in problems in other countries through the UN, but most, except Yugoslavia, have had a direct effect on quality of life in this country. Reality is that WE use the UN to get OUR agendas across. Bush Sr. used the UN to ignite world opinion against Iraq so we could use the UN and other countries, including Communist countries, to side against Iraq and whip there asses. And in the end it was mainly the US that benefited from the Mideast staying out of Husseins reach so we could get oil. Then along came Klinton who shit on this country big time and now we have an oil crisis once again. But thats another story. However, even Klinton didnt allow the UN to have any say so in this countries affairs. Politicians in the US will NEVER relinquish their power to someone else. They are just to fucking greedy. And as long as they dont give in to the UN we will be OK because these same politicians depend on our votes to stay where they are.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 3:26:50 PM EDT
Ahh... "but allowing the proliferation of small arms into society is a violation of human rights". So what would we do, if the U.N. decided to announce a complete and total revocation of the RTKBA? Would the US have the same cajones to kick the U.N. out? Most of the countries of the world are members, but we are not? Even if we do not have the blue helmets marching down our streets, I think they may get our buy-in on some form of restrictions. And then there is the topic of incrementalism, but who is to say that they haven't already incrementally brought us to that point where completion is easy enough? The pressure of the U.N. for us to outlaw guns left and right could be too much for most of our politicians. How much pressure can we withstand as a country alone in our beliefs in the world? What? Israel? Switzerland? Oooo.. they are big countries, right? Gun Toter properly notes: [i]And as long as they dont give in to the UN we will be OK...[/i] I wonder though, if our politicians have the courage to stand up to a shredding of our Constitution. And how many of our politicians are like DiFi and Boxer, and would SINCERELY welcome the trashing of the 2nd Amendment? How many of the gun-haters would take this chance to smash our guns up.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 4:24:57 PM EDT
God given rights!!!!!! Thats what the Bill of rights are. How can we have them if America killed God? We were once a God fearing nation,now we want money, that is our new God. America look out you are going to get what you created!!!
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 4:31:39 PM EDT
"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenarios, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government." --Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberg organization meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992. Transcribed from a tape recording made by one of the Swiss delegates. I found this quote while searching for a quote from Colin Powell that I posted on this forum back in February. (Isn't the search engine working?) Anyway Powell was widely quoted in February as saying that the days of UN bashing (now that he was Secretary of State) were now over! Here is where I found the above quote. Legit or not, all I can do is cite the source. [url]http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/414.html[\url]
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 4:49:33 PM EDT
Yes, this is very scary, as Death by AR said. And no, I have no answers. All I can say is that I better not see a blue helmet within 10 square miles of here.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 5:07:41 PM EDT
I personally believe you guys are a lot closer to the mark than you know. You remember the little agreements passed into law called GATT and NAFTA??? They set the stage, or laid the foundation, to change metaphors, for the bypassing of ALL U.S. LAW --- ALL OF IT!!! Between both of them we as a country gave up our national sovernenty to a Supra-National body and court. That body of rules and regs controls much of the environmental regs in the US today, just for starters. Guns - All it would take is for the President to sign a treaty with the UN that pertains to the personal ownership of firearms, and the Congress to ratify it and we would be SCREWED!! I was really concerned Klinton would try to slide one of those in during his last days in office. If we have to be disarmed in order for the powers that be to acomplish their goals then any method that works will be used. At first American LEO's will be used, then when resistance is met probably American military, and if they cannot get the job done for whatever reason then the blue helmets will be used. At the beginning those that refuse to comply or resist with arms will be branded criminals and the vilest of vile names that can be used, like mad-dog militia, traitors, etc., to gain public support from the sheeple - and there is a bunch of them - by demonizing "The Resisitance". Our elected officials. I think if they were promised the proper things - like increase of their power and personal wealth - say to be an official in a larger governmental body, like United States of the World government, they would take the bait hook, line, and sinker. Some of you think cops are bad - politicians are worse. Their goal to to further their carrier, at any cost. They do not even have to look you in the eye to do it.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 5:14:08 PM EDT
I just hope I can afford some ammo before it all goes down or I will be forced to stap blue helmets and I fear that it will not be nearly as effective.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 5:22:03 PM EDT
I agree that it will be incremental (boiled frog theory). They would never declare a "war on guns", because it would be open season on socialist (with no bag limit). The U.N. is having some success in socializing the USA. They are working to eliminate the death penalty, and a lot of Americans are on board. They want to abolish child criminal punishment, and plenty of soccer moms are crying plenty of tears for these junior Charlie Manson wanna be's. I think the U.N is a real threat to spread global Socialism, and we are outnumbered. They will take over without a single shot being fired. You may be willing to fight for your rights, but will the children of tomorrow??? Children today have never know a world without gun grabbers.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 5:26:58 PM EDT
We will probably be the next domestic terrorists. You guys are right, the UN will have the generally dumb public totally BS'ed into thinking that this is a democracy not a republic, and that guns are EVIL. I will resist. I will fight if I have to. This statement may get me killed. Well, we're all gonna die anyway, aren't we? I'd rather be a dead freedom fighter than a live slave in the socialist Utopia........."Everybody dies. Die standing up!!"
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 5:44:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CMOS: Imbrog, a very fitting post for your #1500. You hit the nail on the head. I quote: [b]"The UN doesn't need much when they have a sympathetic media. Ya millions of Americans will be galvanized into action all right: TO TURN IN PEOPLE LIKE YOU. It will be just like when they were hooked on "Survivor", but this time they will be restlessly waiting for the newest reality based t.v. show: "America's Most Wanted: Domestic Terrorists". On this nightly broadcast, there would be a dynamic entry performed on an anti-(UN)government extremist LIVE on t.v. Also, viewers would be encouraged with cash and prizes to call in with information on other enemies of the state. See how easy it is?"[/b] Indeed it would be that easy. The few "patriots" that do exist consist of a very tiny portion of the population. As with any society, those who are misunderstood (gun owners) become feared, become hunted. Seriously, how many of you would [b]really[/b] be ready to pull the trigger? Unless you were in a very rural area you wouldn't get to pull that trigger many times before you were turned in by the neighbors and cornered by the huge number of [i]local, state and federal law enforcement officers[/i] (who all get their paychecks [i]from[/i] big brother). Sadly, I believe we are well past the point where anything could be done to turn the tide. Plainly put, there are simply not enough Americans left who would be willing to fight for freedom. CMOS There are some.
View Quote
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 6:23:45 PM EDT
I hate to say I told you so... but. Imbroglio is right, some of us have been hollaring for years, and some of us have stuck our heads in the sand, or worse, turned our backs on the ones trying to tell us. This is NOT new. It has been coming for years. We have all felt something was wrong, but would not put the remote down long enough to check it out. CMOS, I think you may be wrong about it being too late. But we can't sit around and watch and do nothing. If we, the millions of gun owners, or even 10% of us, did our jobs, they wouldn't be able to stop us. I would like to see a million or so real Americans throw them all out of OUR country. (no, I'm not talking about civil unrest, just lots of folks in a very peaceful, legal, demonstration outside of the un building in July) As far as the senate having to ratify a treaty, guess again. The Pres. has been giving executive orders for years, and the senate has been going along with UN crap for years, without any ratification process, and we haven't even gotten off our lazy butts to go out and vote, much less throw them out of office for their actions. As far as "our" leaders going along with it, our leaders gave us GATT, and NAFTA, with the WTO there to impose UN laws if any member has laws that the others find offensive to trade(like "our people aren't safe in the US with all those guns around".) Check out the name, "border region 21" check out the plan to make the US, Canada, and Mexico, along with some central american countries into the NORTH AMERICAN FREE TRADE ZONE. No boarders at all. If you don't believe this, watch the news, we are beginning to see crap about dropping the boarders for all sorts of reasons. I'm looking at the rear cover of a video about Michael New, called "Good Conduct, the Michael New Story." It has a quote on the back cover. "It is to those sacred principles enshrined in the UN Charter that we must henceforth pledge our allegiance." President George Bush Watch out for anything that puts the Gov. in more control. We have seen stuff about the environment, crime, aliens, all of it, they will use something, maybey even power outages to get where they want to be. As for me, I feel like it is 1934, and I live in Germany, and have a star on my clothing. The jews should have never given up the only thing they could have used to save themselves from Hitler. They will probably use the incrimentalism, it has worked well for them for years, but mostly they will use the apathy of the Amrerican citizen, because they know that as long as most of us have a beer in one hand, and the remote in the other, we won't do anything.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 6:29:57 PM EDT
All I can say is, make sure it is buried at least 3 feet down and dont forget to bury at least 1000 rnds :)
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 2:10:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mejames: ...because it would be open season on socialist (with no bag limit).
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Woohoo!!!! Anyway, my biggest concern, or thought, is that liberals, who are famous for not learning from their past mistakes, will decide that they've waited long enough, and start something now. History repeats itself over and over again, and we have too many people who want power now, and not have to wait for it. Remember that we are surrounded by people who want instant gratification, and they want it now. As I detailed out, the overall costs, except for lives, would be lower, they may think that they can win this war, and honestly, they may have a chance. Who amongst us is truly ready to take a stand? I guess I should say that I am not concerned, for I wish for my son to have more freedom than I have. That's why I'm looking at moving out of the PRK, even though I will have to basically start a good portion of my life over again. And if they come... I hope I have the courage to stand against them... even if I'm alone (OK, I guess Imbrog has my back, maybe...)
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 7:13:26 PM EDT
I believe there was a multinational force in Korea and Vietnam and where did all that firepower get them. If they want to win they had better be prepared to stay for 1000 years.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 7:29:00 PM EDT
i thought we settled this 200 years ago.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 7:42:14 PM EDT
I say screw all you rose colored glasses wearing lemmings...
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Imbrog, you are probably the most poetic fuc*er on this board. Keep up the good work!
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 7:56:11 PM EDT
If the military arm of the UN follows their historic pattern, we will see a situation similar to what happened in Bosnia and Serbia in that UN commanders will be unwilling to put their people in harm's way if there's even a slight chance they'll get their noses bloodied. Look at the genocide in Bosnia. The UN guys sat in their bunkers and watched bands of jerk's roam the streets and kill at will. They did virtually nothing. The locals considered them a joke. Do you think for a minute that some UN commander is going to put his people up against 80 million armed civilians? I don't think so. The commanders have to answer to the parents of these kids. Of course, one could argue that these were European soldiers. Should the UN send military units made up of Chinese or Cubans, who knows. These people answer to no one other than the party. Add to that historic hatreds, envy, etc., and it's a different story. In any case, I think we should focus our energy on dealing with the enemies from within.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 8:16:43 PM EDT
Imbrog - my hats off to you. It has been hellish over the years trying to explain to the sheeple as well as gun owners who don't have a clue who the real enemies are. Now I perhaps only preach to the choir since the majority of sheeple sit with their dick in their hands, stuffing food into their face while they watch the mindless shit that is on the boob tube. I personally looked at the locations that will be the first hit if these un treaties go into affect an avoid them like the plague. It will initially be the leo's that are given the duty, but when they start dying off through attrition, then the blue hats will be coming in. These things have been outlined for years, the information has been available, but for the most part the un looked incompetent. What they are good for is enforceing sanctions that they make with the blood of international fighters. This is exactly what the gun grabbing, socialist tyrants are wanting. When you stand up for freedom then you can be labeled and they will come after you. Freedom can only be maintained when there are those willing to shed blood, I hope the blood that will be shed is theirs. As the clock ticks down, and it is ticking, think about small communities well outside of the metro areas, develope a food supply in addition to your weapon supply, put up cloths for summer and winter. Never, and I mean never show a sheeple what you have. Lie like hell, and start acting as if you are selling everything off. Develope a cache of ammunition, enough to last a while. Only talk to those that you absolutely trust, and then don't tell them everything about your preparations. You will find the right combat cells if things go down, and you are not trapped in the city. Bottom line, prepare, and if you have to fight like a mother fucker against the slimebags that will be coming for you. Oh one last thing, if your kids are in school, and have been indroctrinated into this new age shit, then keep from them necessary intelligence, if you don't they will turn you in for the good of the state. I personally have moved to a rural area, mountains within two miles that are covered with game, and numerous places to hide. Be mobile and if you have to hit the bastards and give no quarter. Sorry for the rant, but I see really black storm clouds on the horizon for all freedom loving men and women.
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