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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:01:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exfil is one of the big logistical hurdles that is not likely to be surmountable. Maybe of our military was like Mexico's, but it's not. The USAF and Navy would make short work of any attempt to move such forces and El Chapo himself out of the country following a successful breakout. NG/Army combined with sheer distance make exfil by land out of the question. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: LOL, U.S. LE has nothing to do with it. The logistics are extremely daunting in and of themselves. LE in this country would be totally overwhelmed if they suddenly found themselves facing a Culiacan-scale attack to free El Chapo. But getting those forces here and then getting everyone out is way too challenging of a task. And then you have the likely military response. Every vehicle would scatter in different directions like roaches. What makes you think we would even mount a military response to a prison break? |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:05:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, but it would dry up the majority of their revenue which makes it harder to wage large scale war and widespread corruption. Prohibition is a valid example. Unfortunately, and surely just coincidence, just as we legalized alcohol we also started harsher restrictions on drugs. Organized crime did not exist as it does today before Prohibition. Making drugs illegal gave them a similar income stream as an alternative to legalized alcohol. Prostitution, shakedowns, gambling (could be easily legalized nationally and kind of pointless not to with Nevada and Indian res) cannot be so easily expanded as addictive consumables. There may still be crime cartels but at a much smaller scale and much less influence. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:09:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The cartels have infiltrated the legal weed business in Colorado. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: That's incorrect. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:10:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, but it would dry up the majority of their revenue which makes it harder to wage large scale war and widespread corruption. Prohibition is a valid example. Unfortunately, and surely just coincidence, just as we legalized alcohol we also started harsher restrictions on drugs. Organized crime did not exist as it does today before Prohibition. Making drugs illegal gave them a similar income stream as an alternative to legalized alcohol. Prostitution, shakedowns, gambling (could be easily legalized nationally and kind of pointless not to with Nevada and Indian res) cannot be so easily expanded as addictive consumables. There may still be crime cartels but at a much smaller scale and much less influence. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:14:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your reading comprehension is lacking. I’m the one saying it’s not happening. I’m just saying it’s not because of logistics or lack of manpower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wonder how well a local US police force could deal with that level of violence if that were to happen here. Say we had the kid here and they came with that. The cartels do not want to fuck with US law enforcement. You think El Chapo wants to die in a US prison? His boys have the financial resources to buy an army. Hell they have one already. Yet they won’t do a dam thing on US soil to draw unnecessary attention to themselves. Why do you think that is? The deterrence is not American civilian LE. Lots of other reasons why they won't try breaking him out. Logistics, the U.S. military, politics, and other things are among the big reasons. If they actually had the means to pull something like this off, plus the will, American LE might get a few licks in, but in the end would be in for a world of hurt. Civilian LE is simply not a good tool to deal with military-grade threats. I’m the one saying it’s not happening. I’m just saying it’s not because of logistics or lack of manpower. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:16:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the cartel did manage to break El Chapo out of prison they sure wouldn’t convoy out and create a highway of death scenario like you’re alluding to. Every vehicle would scatter in different directions like roaches. What makes you think we would even mount a military response to a prison break? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: LOL, U.S. LE has nothing to do with it. The logistics are extremely daunting in and of themselves. LE in this country would be totally overwhelmed if they suddenly found themselves facing a Culiacan-scale attack to free El Chapo. But getting those forces here and then getting everyone out is way too challenging of a task. And then you have the likely military response. Every vehicle would scatter in different directions like roaches. What makes you think we would even mount a military response to a prison break? |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:16:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOMG. Canada has a media that deviates from the scripted message and doesn't support the 'popular' narrative?
Thanks for the link, excellent article. $500,000 to meet code for a 'small' grow room and then someone from .gov comes in to harvest the crop? Hmmm? Sounds like ...an opportunity to spread some cash around if someone had a lot of cash that needed to get spread around if ya get my drift. My WAG says the cartels are going to have their hands in every 'grow room' in North America as well as the 'illegal-side' distribution networks in less than a decade. Speaking to drug distribution networks ...Mena, Arkansas mid-eighties. Barry Seal, Medellin cartel cocaine smuggling operation somehow connected to the state's Governor. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:18:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Realistically the US will not legalize all drugs. Someday weed might be legalized but heroin, meth, coke, etc will not be. Just the way it is. To argue otherwise is pointless. The cartels and their income stream & violence will be with us for a long, long time. No disparagement on our military, USCG or LE. They have made Herculean efforts. Inspite of those heroics drugs are more abundant now that 40 years ago and far more powerful and deadly. Our current approach if trying to stop drug trafficking by way of LE does not work by any realistic measure. If you don’t like legalization, and agree that the war on drugs is not effective considering the vast effort and costs, then please suggest a better alternative. Doing the same thing as we are will not reduce drug abuse or trafficking. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:20:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your own analogy is working against you. Organized crime didn’t disappear when alcohol was legalized and they didn’t just shift to illegal drugs. Almost a century later they are still around. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:24:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never said legalizing drugs would eliminate organized crime. I said it would substantially reduce their revenue. They are already involved in most other illegal activities do without drug revenue how do they maintain their current reach and power? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Your own analogy is working against you. Organized crime didn’t disappear when alcohol was legalized and they didn’t just shift to illegal drugs. Almost a century later they are still around. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:30:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your own analogy is working against you. Organized crime didn’t disappear when alcohol was legalized and they didn’t just shift to illegal drugs. Almost a century later they are still around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: No, but it would dry up the majority of their revenue which makes it harder to wage large scale war and widespread corruption. Prohibition is a valid example. Unfortunately, and surely just coincidence, just as we legalized alcohol we also started harsher restrictions on drugs. Organized crime did not exist as it does today before Prohibition. Making drugs illegal gave them a similar income stream as an alternative to legalized alcohol. Prostitution, shakedowns, gambling (could be easily legalized nationally and kind of pointless not to with Nevada and Indian res) cannot be so easily expanded as addictive consumables. There may still be crime cartels but at a much smaller scale and much less influence.  Michael Franzese on Making $10M a Week Stealing Gasoline Tax, Becoming a Capo in the Mafia (Part 5) |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:33:02 PM EDT
[#12]
And here I am, wondering if carrying my LCP everywhere is paranoid.
In Mexico, they open carry LAWs and LMGs. 
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:36:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never said legalizing drugs would eliminate organized crime. I said it would substantially reduce their revenue. They are already involved in most other illegal activities so without drug revenue how do they maintain their current reach and power? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Your own analogy is working against you. Organized crime didn’t disappear when alcohol was legalized and they didn’t just shift to illegal drugs. Almost a century later they are still around. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:41:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Watch that video I just posted. They can muscle into whatever hell they want. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Your own analogy is working against you. Organized crime didn’t disappear when alcohol was legalized and they didn’t just shift to illegal drugs. Almost a century later they are still around. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:52:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WRONG: The carrels are as diversified as any large multinational corporation. Their bottom line would take a hit but they would be far from out of business. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The cartel exists because they make money running illegal drugs to the US. If drugs in the US were legalized and taxed like cigarettes and alcohol the cartels would be out of business.  Another statistic I found place cartel income at well north of $500 BILLION a year if trafficking/human smuggling and successful drug smuggling are combined. Even in the US states where pot is legal, there seems to be plenty of cheaper cartel imported black market street weed sales. They don't have to pay taxes so they can undercut prices for weed on the street. The cartels have an unbelievable infrastructure throughout the US, along with Central & South America. I'm not even talking about coke, heroin, meth, etc or the other legal businesses cartels/members are involved in. There is no reason to mess up what they have going on by trying to break El Chapo out, since the ONLY thing that changed by his arrest was the top leadership of the Sinaloa cartel. They lost no drug suppliers, traffickers, runners, money men, customers, etc. If his arrest had collapsed their trade, I suspect we might have seen/see a determined effort to get ole shorty back home. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 7:57:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stealing gas is already one of their main revenue streams. The cartels will steal literally anything with any kind of value. Even avocados, they were stealing 48 tons of avocados daily. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Your own analogy is working against you. Organized crime didn’t disappear when alcohol was legalized and they didn’t just shift to illegal drugs. Almost a century later they are still around. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:06:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any national news coverage...in America? This is bad 'optics' for the Left. Better just ignore it.  |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:08:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Mexico is essentially a failed state at this point. It's like the Afghan National Army, minus the US & NATO, vs the Taliban. We all know who really runs the show and is going to prevail.
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:08:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So there's no reason to think that they wouldn't take a piece of the legalized drug business, or that there wouldn't continue to be a black market for drugs that they'd also control. It's like spraying weed killer on your lawn. Some weeds will die but the shit that survives grows stronger than ever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Your own analogy is working against you. Organized crime didn’t disappear when alcohol was legalized and they didn’t just shift to illegal drugs. Almost a century later they are still around. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:15:19 PM EDT
[#20]
In case of those who know nothing, Culiacan is a wealthy city. Doesn't take a rocket scientists to figure out how. And they have quite a strong presence of American ag companies. Pioneer Seed, Johm Deere, etc. Culiacan isn't 1st world quality but its Safer in Culiacan than many US cities. Just throwing that out for those who think these are backwards dirt farming people. That said, the Sinaloa Cartel has all local government in their pockets. And we see more violence in resort towns like Cancun. Or compare it to Juarez, or Michoacan and Jalisco. Far different story.
So what happened? Well, the cartel like to live a peaceful life. Like anyone else. If they had to do shit, they rather do it somewhere else. But this showed how heavily entrenched they are in Cuiacan. I almost dare say, leave it alone. Criminals? No. Well organized and funded criminals? Very much so. So if they had taken Guzman do you think that place would collapse? With as much money is in that community it's not going anywhere. All this seems to me was a power play and using the government to do the dirty work. And it failed. This is why we saw cartel and military guys shake hands at the end of the day as if it was a friendly basketball game. Or an exercise with live ammo instead of blanks. In the coming months we will see who will pay for this |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:16:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, they're not assembling an army and getting someone out of the country imprisoned in Florida. Get real. The deterrence is not American civilian LE. Lots of other reasons why they won't try breaking him out. Logistics, the U.S. military, politics, and other things are among the big reasons. If they actually had the means to pull something like this off, plus the will, American LE might get a few licks in, but in the end would be in for a world of hurt. Civilian LE is simply not a good tool to deal with military-grade threats. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:18:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If only we could devise a middle step to deal with active shooters, terrorism, and other events that outclass LE but do not call for military deployment. Something like all the responsible members of a community being well regulated(equipped and trained to a standard) that could respond to protect their communities. I wonder why nobody thought of this when the country was being set up? 
Why would you want to lead thousands to slaughter? You are severely underestimating the cartels' power. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:19:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does the mexican army always run around gears of war style without helmets? https://drandalls.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/6lc7talsrehbh09k.gif |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:22:13 PM EDT
[#24]
I would imagine we have some sort of secret guys getting ready to go down there and do some good.
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:32:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's with they guy with the remote control on the lower right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does the mexican army always run around gears of war style without helmets? https://drandalls.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/6lc7talsrehbh09k.gif |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:33:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's with they guy with the remote control on the lower right? |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:33:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw this on the PBS news hour. After not seeing it on nightly news. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Any national news coverage...in America? This is bad 'optics' for the Left. Better just ignore it. It confirms that Mexico is a failed state that requires a barrier. The government can't protect you when the SHTF. Gun laws don't keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Government forces can be defeated by men with guns. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:52:39 PM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 10/18/2019 8:57:15 PM EDT
[#29]
did I hear right on Tucker that Mexican "authorities"
let the son go because they were getting their ass handed to them?
if true that's nuts |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 9:01:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Any word on estimated civi casualties? I know we'll never see accurate numbers from their government. There's one video of a group of on Lookers getting hit with an RPG or LAW.
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Posted: 10/18/2019 9:12:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
did I hear right on Tucker that Mexican "authorities" let the son go because they were getting their ass handed to them?
if true that's nuts They allegedly rounded up cops,soldiers and their families. They would have been executed. Now just shoot him in the head it’s all calmed down |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 9:18:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's one video of a group of on Lookers getting hit with an RPG or LAW. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 9:22:35 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 10/18/2019 9:31:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In case of those who know nothing, Culiacan is a wealthy city. Doesn't take a rocket scientists to figure out how. And they have quite a strong presence of American ag companies. Pioneer Seed, Johm Deere, etc. Culiacan isn't 1st world quality but its Safer in Culiacan than many US cities. Just throwing that out for those who think these are backwards dirt farming people. That said, the Sinaloa Cartel has all local government in their pockets. And we see more violence in resort towns like Cancun. Or compare it to Juarez, or Michoacan and Jalisco. Far different story. So what happened? Well, the cartel like to live a peaceful life. Like anyone else. If they had to do shit, they rather do it somewhere else. But this showed how heavily entrenched they are in Cuiacan. I almost dare say, leave it alone. Criminals? No. Well organized and funded criminals? Very much so. So if they had taken Guzman do you think that place would collapse? With as much money is in that community it's not going anywhere. All this seems to me was a power play and using the government to do the dirty work. And it failed. This is why we saw cartel and military guys shake hands at the end of the day as if it was a friendly basketball game. Or an exercise with live ammo instead of blanks. In the coming months we will see who will pay for this |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 9:33:49 PM EDT
[#35]
It's usually real bad news when the government is not able to wield overwhelming power.
Then, the people get fucked over by more than one armed and organized gang of mobsters. China had its "warlord era" and Mexico sure looks like it is following suit. Mexico needs that "man on a white horse". |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:03:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the cartel did manage to break El Chapo out of prison they sure wouldn’t convoy out and create a highway of death scenario like you’re alluding to. Every vehicle would scatter in different directions like roaches. What makes you think we would even mount a military response to a prison break? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: LOL, U.S. LE has nothing to do with it. The logistics are extremely daunting in and of themselves. LE in this country would be totally overwhelmed if they suddenly found themselves facing a Culiacan-scale attack to free El Chapo. But getting those forces here and then getting everyone out is way too challenging of a task. And then you have the likely military response. Every vehicle would scatter in different directions like roaches. What makes you think we would even mount a military response to a prison break? |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:11:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes any of you guys think we could mount a military response in time to actually accomplish anything? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: LOL, U.S. LE has nothing to do with it. The logistics are extremely daunting in and of themselves. LE in this country would be totally overwhelmed if they suddenly found themselves facing a Culiacan-scale attack to free El Chapo. But getting those forces here and then getting everyone out is way too challenging of a task. And then you have the likely military response. Every vehicle would scatter in different directions like roaches. What makes you think we would even mount a military response to a prison break? |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:14:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoot, this won’t even make the papers in El Paso. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is the start of a coup, or civil war. 
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:20:13 PM EDT
[#39]
This is why the 340 traitors to America that voted to condemn the president for pulling 26 men out of Syria, but wont vote for removal of non citizens and the wall, are scum.
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:20:53 PM EDT
[#40]
I wonder how ballsy they would be if we made a deal with the Gov to fly these down there....
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:21:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They could. The risk of at least some the pilots being undercover cartel agents would be very high. That's the problem with being compromised so completely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Shootouts still going on Translation: Reports of an audio message through whatsapp hints of at least 100 trucks coming down from the mountains to try to rescue El Chapo's son, they're warning that there is going to be alot of deaths. 
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:25:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOFUCKINGL. We totally don't need a wall. These are kind, civilized and intelligent people, no different than you and me.  |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:39:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were a failed state since gaining independence from Spain Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Excellent analysis. Do some research on the political history of Mexico. Since about 1900-ish, they've had very strong communist-esque outlook on the order of operations of government. Very central planning when the average citizen is closer to liberterian (in the sense of personal independence and small government). The rise of the Narco State, if you look at the political and economic justifications, is more of a response to a central government that has failed its people, and an organic response to filling in the gap created by an economy that has never been able to create enough jobs for the majority, and an uncertain currency which the citizens can't rely on. Mexico has been a defacto failed state since the Dirty War (thanks CIA!). The cartels were the only ones strong enough to fill the void. Wait until they cut the middle man out and instead of paying Presidents $100+ million for their mordida, they simply start running their well know cartel guys for office. And win. Any more wisdom you'd like to pass on? |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:44:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2A? At the risk of sounding like a dumbass, if the cartel sets up a roadblock or a checkpoint in my neighborhood and 911 isn't answering.... well... that's when the clock says FO. I think that's what AKengineer was alluding to earlier. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: LOL, U.S. LE has nothing to do with it. The logistics are extremely daunting in and of themselves. LE in this country would be totally overwhelmed if they suddenly found themselves facing a Culiacan-scale attack to free El Chapo. But getting those forces here and then getting everyone out is way too challenging of a task. And then you have the likely military response. Every vehicle would scatter in different directions like roaches. What makes you think we would even mount a military response to a prison break? Cmon guys, this isn’t call of duty. Unless you have every single neighbor armed and well versed in small squad movements. If You engage these folks your entire neighborhood burns to the ground via AP incendiaries from those .50s The house in Mexico don’t burn, they are all made of concrete block. Our house burn quite easily and quickly. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:49:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even in the US states where pot is legal, there seems to be plenty of cheaper cartel imported black market street weed sales. They don't have to pay taxes so they can undercut prices for weed on the street. The cartels have an unbelievable infrastructure throughout the US, along with Central & South America. I'm not even talking about coke, heroin, meth, etc or the other legal businesses cartels/members are involved in. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:54:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “Plata o plomo?”, it’s not just an expression, it’s a way of life. They don't pay these guys. Payday in Miami was a trash bag on the side of the turnpike full of human remains. Simply, F***! the cartel. Nothing follows.... |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 10:54:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote History“And then I realized they were stronger than we.”
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Posted: 10/18/2019 11:04:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Is this a really bad photoshop? Look at the hand above the drivers door, either that guy in the back has some really long monkey arms or something funky is going on here.
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Posted: 10/18/2019 11:19:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The cartels are already here and how hard is it to get firearms and explosives? They can get those here and if not I hear they’re pretty good at sneaking stuff across the border. You think El Chapo wants to die in a US prison? His boys have the financial resources to buy an army. Hell they have one already. Yet they won’t do a dam thing on US soil to draw unnecessary attention to themselves. Why do you think that is? It would be idiotic for them to consider it. Much better to bribe US politicians and get him released on some sort of technicality. That and other thoughtful strategies. |
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Posted: 10/18/2019 11:23:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Already, there are thousands of cities throughout America, with tens of thousands of people on the cartel payrolls. They are here, it is happening now. Without question the Mexican drug cartels OWN the illegal drug trade here. They're flowing BILLIONS of $$ in cash through our economy. I don't think it can be stopped or eliminated. There's absolutely no will to do so and the resources it would take to even begin to curtail the drug economy are not coordinated, will never be brought to bear on that task. I think, the best we can do at this time is put a physical barrier between our nation and Mexico and do our best to keep the cartel violence in Mexico and make it clear it won't be tolerated in America. Halt illegal immigration. Period. Deport those here illegally and manage the flow of $$ out of our nation to Mexico and beyond. No more fucking sanctuary cities. Make life here inconvenient and hazardous for those here illegally and especially for those involved in the drug trade. And giving our government and its bureaucracies control over recreational drugs is a very very bad idea with no good outcomes for freedom or the rule of law. like the horse and the carrot. Those people don't pay anyone, and we end up doing it. Disability, ebt, obamacare, etc. Conversion felonies is their main stock and trade. They aren't much good at anything else. You think the cartel pays for their stuff? What a joke. Those people are a total scam. |
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