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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:09:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think so as well. If this site cant stand up to Denver liberals, who can they stand up to? It isnt the savior portrayed by GB when this place sold. Remember, money comes first Always had and always will. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:10:49 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. "Positive image of the gun community" is just double speak for presenting a completely law abiding, non confrontational, white bread, passive image. It's like the dog crouching before it's master, rolling on it's belly hoping to not be punished. I get it. Staying under the radar is a strong motivator. However, it's in direct opposition to the founding premise of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to be scary for the government and those who wish to do its bidding. It is a lethal reminder that the people have the means to revolt, violently if pushed, when the government becomes tyrannical. If we forget that, or the people of this nation find that unpalatable, then all is already lost. Remember when the positive image of a gun owner was a patriot, standing with his rifle - ready to engage in violence against tyrants? Now, the positive image is a slightly overweight dude in khakis and a button down, who hides his guns at all opportunities (so as not to offend sensitive people) and only advocates following all laws - regardless of how onerous they are. Make sure you contact your legislators. Sorry for those of you who live in states that have large cities and your voice isn't heard. Keep voting and contacting your legislators - no matter how hopeless it is in reality. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:11:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are whole sites dedicated to using illegal drugs. Why arent they all victims of the Feds "magic box"? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:11:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Is this different than bus riding or lunch counters?
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:13:17 AM EDT
[#5]
The way things are going around here lately?
Yes. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:13:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why this site will never be an effective advocate for the 2nd Amendment. "Positive image of the gun community" is just double speak for presenting a completely law abiding, non confrontational, white bread, passive image. It's like the dog crouching before it's master, rolling on it's belly hoping to not be punished. I get it. Staying under the radar is a strong motivator. However, it's in direct opposition to the founding premise of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to be scary for the government and those who wish to do its bidding. It is a lethal reminder that the people have the means to revolt, violently if pushed, when the government becomes tyrannical. If we forget that, or the people of this nation find that unpalatable, then all is already lost. Remember when the positive image of a gun owner was a patriot, standing with his rifle - ready to engage in violence against tyrants? Now, the positive image is a slightly overweight dude in khakis and a button down, who hides his guns at all opportunities (so as not to offend sensitive people) and only advocates following all laws - regardless of how onerous they are. Make sure you contact your legislators. Sorry for those of you who live in states that have large cities and your voice isn't heard. Keep voting and contacting your legislators - no matter how hopeless it is in reality. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:14:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are whole sites dedicated to using illegal drugs. Why arent they all victims of the Feds "magic box"? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:15:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
discussion no. actively encouraging people to break the law. yes and always has been an issue. 4. Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. There is zero issue with discussing the laws or organizing to protest or remove them. We can not allow active discussion on how to circumvent them in an illegal manner. We have never allowed that. the thread in question was locked for the correct reasons. The way it was handled was not and i am reviewing those actions. This site is on a collision course between its membership and the authoritarian state that will attempt to flex its muscle in coming decades. When the mere possession of “high” cap magazines, assault weapons and God forbid all semi-autos becomes criminalized we can all rest assured that ARFCom will be there to silence dissent and bad wrong “illegal” discussions that might be breaking the law. Why the stringent adherence to laws we fundamentally oppose on an ideological level? Conservatives surely seem destined to lose. One only has to look at how illegal immigration activists, civil rights marchers and Gay rights advocate plan and execute to render the laws unenforceable. If we do not do the same the death of private firearms ownership as we know it is guaranteed. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:17:00 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:18:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why this site will never be an effective advocate for the 2nd Amendment. "Positive image of the gun community" is just double speak for presenting a completely law abiding, non confrontational, white bread, passive image. It's like the dog crouching before it's master, rolling on it's belly hoping to not be punished. I get it. Staying under the radar is a strong motivator. However, it's in direct opposition to the founding premise of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to be scary for the government and those who wish to do its bidding. It is a lethal reminder that the people have the means to revolt, violently if pushed, when the government becomes tyrannical. If we forget that, or the people of this nation find that unpalatable, then all is already lost. Remember when the positive image of a gun owner was a patriot, standing with his rifle - ready to engage in violence against tyrants? Now, the positive image is a slightly overweight dude in khakis and a button down, who hides his guns at all opportunities (so as not to offend sensitive people) and only advocates following all laws - regardless of how onerous they are. Make sure you contact your legislators. Sorry for those of you who live in states that have large cities and your voice isn't heard. Keep voting and contacting your legislators - no matter how hopeless it is in reality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. "Positive image of the gun community" is just double speak for presenting a completely law abiding, non confrontational, white bread, passive image. It's like the dog crouching before it's master, rolling on it's belly hoping to not be punished. I get it. Staying under the radar is a strong motivator. However, it's in direct opposition to the founding premise of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to be scary for the government and those who wish to do its bidding. It is a lethal reminder that the people have the means to revolt, violently if pushed, when the government becomes tyrannical. If we forget that, or the people of this nation find that unpalatable, then all is already lost. Remember when the positive image of a gun owner was a patriot, standing with his rifle - ready to engage in violence against tyrants? Now, the positive image is a slightly overweight dude in khakis and a button down, who hides his guns at all opportunities (so as not to offend sensitive people) and only advocates following all laws - regardless of how onerous they are. Make sure you contact your legislators. Sorry for those of you who live in states that have large cities and your voice isn't heard. Keep voting and contacting your legislators - no matter how hopeless it is in reality. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:19:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honest answer? Because a good percentage of those sites are run by the feds. Dark net markets? Equal chances of being feds or enterprising unlicensed pharmacists. Our feds are probably the biggest drug dealers in the world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There are whole sites dedicated to using illegal drugs. Why arent they all victims of the Feds "magic box"? Brownells is owned by the Feds? 
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:19:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think we need to stop being afraid. We are quite literally the most dangerous voting block in the most powerful nation on the planet. If you teleported the gun-owning population of the US into China, living under Chinese law... the CCP would violently cease to exist in months. You may not realize it, but that fear is the only weapon keeping us from our enumerated civil rights. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Allow me to play Devil's Advocate... What happens when some journalist or gun control advocate stumbles across our discussion and it leads to a News 7 Investigates piece about the ineffectiveness of Colorado's gun safety measures due to non-enforcement? This prompts the politicians to start pushing on the enforcement agencies, who in turn start making examples of people. Like I said, I don't know if it is better to do it openly or quietly. Quietly you have less chance of getting in trouble, openly you have a greater chance of having an impact. Just remember though, we aren't black folks sitting at a White Only lunch counter. The police cracking down on us when we flout the law isn't going to generate much public sympathy. We are quite literally the most dangerous voting block in the most powerful nation on the planet. If you teleported the gun-owning population of the US into China, living under Chinese law... the CCP would violently cease to exist in months. You may not realize it, but that fear is the only weapon keeping us from our enumerated civil rights. When it happened, there was a long thread about it here. As I recall, about half the site said it was a bullshit charge and were severely pissed. The other half said it was the guy's own fault because he was illegally selling guns and loaning out ARs to people to get them to buy his illegal guns. Anyways, the guy did his time. Don't assume that "we" are a monolithic block, even on this site, and don't assume that The Internet has your back. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:22:18 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under the strictest interpretation of the CoC, this site will cease to exist once the new AWB with confiscation is forced into law. Can't discuss ARs once they are made illegal, "no matter how stupid the law is." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Under the strictest interpretation of the CoC discussing such an act would be verboten. 
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:24:56 AM EDT
[#14]
A free people, Americans being such, generally find tyranny and it's brethren to be an abhorrence to be destroyed without quarter given.
The CoC is not compliant with that simple fact, nor is the current operation of this site. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:27:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So Brownells is owned by the Feds? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There are whole sites dedicated to using illegal drugs. Why arent they all victims of the Feds "magic box"? Brownells is owned by the Feds? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:31:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Allow me to play Devil's Advocate... What happens when some journalist or gun control advocate stumbles across our discussion and it leads to a News 7 Investigates piece about the ineffectiveness of Colorado's gun safety measures due to non-enforcement? This prompts the politicians to start pushing on the enforcement agencies, who in turn start making examples of people. Like I said, I don't know if it is better to do it openly or quietly. Quietly you have less chance of getting in trouble, openly you have a greater chance of having an impact. Just remember though, we aren't black folks sitting at a White Only lunch counter. The police cracking down on us when we flout the law isn't going to generate much public sympathy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is it better to do it loud and proud, or is it better to keep your business on the down low? I don't know. The mag ban may not be enforced in Colorado right now, but squawking about it on a public forum may bring attention to that and start a push to have stricter enforcement policy. I for one wouldn't advocate coming on here to flout the NY AWB. You could wind up with a SWAT team on your doorstep if you do. It's also important to remember that this forum is literally buzzing with law enforcement. Some are members who are on our side, some are members who aren't on our side and some actively looking for criminal activity to prosecute. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58021/Screen_Shot_2019-04-02_at_2_26_42_PM_jpg-1125936.JPG What happens when some journalist or gun control advocate stumbles across our discussion and it leads to a News 7 Investigates piece about the ineffectiveness of Colorado's gun safety measures due to non-enforcement? This prompts the politicians to start pushing on the enforcement agencies, who in turn start making examples of people. Like I said, I don't know if it is better to do it openly or quietly. Quietly you have less chance of getting in trouble, openly you have a greater chance of having an impact. Just remember though, we aren't black folks sitting at a White Only lunch counter. The police cracking down on us when we flout the law isn't going to generate much public sympathy. Fake News is playing for keeps. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:31:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was a case several years ago where some guy in Minnesota got busted on a machine gun charge. He was a member here. The guy had loaned an old, beat up AR to someone who took it out shooting and the gun went full auto on the guy, fired about 5 shots and jammed. It just so happened that a police officer heard it, confiscated the gun and took the guy's info. Long story short, the Feds successfully argued in court that even if a firearm malfunctions and goes full auto, it is still an illegal machine gun, and the owner of the AR wound up doing 4 years in federal prison for possession of an unregistered machine gun. When it happened, there was a long thread about it here. As I recall, about half the site said it was a bullshit charge and were severely pissed. The other half said it was the guy's own fault because he was illegally selling guns and loaning out ARs to people to get them to buy his illegal guns. Anyways, the guy did his time. Don't assume that "we" are a monolithic block, even on this site, and don't assume that The Internet has your back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Allow me to play Devil's Advocate... What happens when some journalist or gun control advocate stumbles across our discussion and it leads to a News 7 Investigates piece about the ineffectiveness of Colorado's gun safety measures due to non-enforcement? This prompts the politicians to start pushing on the enforcement agencies, who in turn start making examples of people. Like I said, I don't know if it is better to do it openly or quietly. Quietly you have less chance of getting in trouble, openly you have a greater chance of having an impact. Just remember though, we aren't black folks sitting at a White Only lunch counter. The police cracking down on us when we flout the law isn't going to generate much public sympathy. We are quite literally the most dangerous voting block in the most powerful nation on the planet. If you teleported the gun-owning population of the US into China, living under Chinese law... the CCP would violently cease to exist in months. You may not realize it, but that fear is the only weapon keeping us from our enumerated civil rights. When it happened, there was a long thread about it here. As I recall, about half the site said it was a bullshit charge and were severely pissed. The other half said it was the guy's own fault because he was illegally selling guns and loaning out ARs to people to get them to buy his illegal guns. Anyways, the guy did his time. Don't assume that "we" are a monolithic block, even on this site, and don't assume that The Internet has your back. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:32:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This policy is outdated and untenable in the current political environment considering what the future holds for gun owners. It is a product of a more civilized time. This site is on a collision course between its membership and the authoritarian state that will attempt to flex its muscle in coming decades. When the mere possession of “high” cap magazines, assault weapons and God forbid all semi-autos becomes criminalized we can all rest assured that ARFCom will be there to silence dissent and bad wrong “illegal” discussions that might be breaking the law. Why the stringent adherence to laws we fundamentally oppose on an ideological level? Conservatives surely seem destined to lose. One only has to look at how illegal immigration activists, civil rights marchers and Gay rights advocate plan and execute to render the laws unenforceable. If we do not do the same the death of private firearms ownership as we know it is guaranteed. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:33:09 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
discussion no. actively encouraging people to break the law. yes and always has been an issue. 4. Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. There is zero issue with discussing the laws or organizing to protest or remove them. We can not allow active discussion on how to circumvent them in an illegal manner. We have never allowed that. the thread in question was locked for the correct reasons. The way it was handled was not and i am reviewing those actions. Has anybody considered that the CoC may be doing us all a HUGE favor? This IS an important topic. This unsecured venue is NOT the right place for these sorts of discussions. Take a lesson from our enemies- they do NOT discuss strategy, much less potentially illegal conduct, in public. Know where to discuss activism, both white, gray, and black? a. Build parties. Does anybody even have these any more? Get together in somebody's garage, put some cool things together, meet like-minded folks, make friends, and discuss activism among friends. b. Gun ranges/shooting spots and gun shows. I hate range nazis as much as everybody else, but that's where you meet other gun people. Beware of who you are speaking with because of plants and other problem children. But maybe you'll meet some good folks or get ideas here. c. Secured online places. WhatsApp, Viber, Line, Telegram, Signal, and plenty of others are out there. Hillary's campaign made great use of Signal. If it's good enough for her and her ilk..... There's a reason Antifa, BLM, and other groups are effective. They've learned OPSEC. So should we. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:34:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we need to stop being afraid. We are quite literally the most dangerous voting block in the most powerful nation on the planet. If you teleported the gun-owning population of the US into China, living under Chinese law... the CCP would violently cease to exist in months. You may not realize it, but that fear is the only weapon keeping us from our enumerated civil rights. 
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:35:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But that thread would have been locked now. 
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:35:06 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was a case several years ago where some guy in Minnesota got busted on a machine gun charge. He was a member here. The guy had loaned an old, beat up AR to someone who took it out shooting and the gun went full auto on the guy, fired about 5 shots and jammed. It just so happened that a police officer heard it, confiscated the gun and took the guy's info. Long story short, the Feds successfully argued in court that even if a firearm malfunctions and goes full auto, it is still an illegal machine gun, and the owner of the AR wound up doing 4 years in federal prison for possession of an unregistered machine gun. When it happened, there was a long thread about it here. As I recall, about half the site said it was a bullshit charge and were severely pissed. The other half said it was the guy's own fault because he was illegally selling guns and loaning out ARs to people to get them to buy his illegal guns. Anyways, the guy did his time. Don't assume that "we" are a monolithic block, even on this site, and don't assume that The Internet has your back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Olofson |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:35:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it better to do it loud and proud, or is it better to keep your business on the down low? I don't know. The mag ban may not be enforced in Colorado right now, but squawking about it on a public forum may bring attention to that and start a push to have stricter enforcement policy. I for one wouldn't advocate coming on here to flout the NY AWB. You could wind up with a SWAT team on your doorstep if you do. It's also important to remember that this forum is literally buzzing with law enforcement. Some are members who are on our side, some are members who aren't on our side and some actively looking for criminal activity to prosecute. 
But seriously, the Freedom Movement needs both:
And public disobedience has resulted in all sorts of social and legal change over the years. Yes that means running a certain risk of a SWAT team at your door, or Bull Connor and his ilk giving you a hickory shampoo for not sitting in the back of the bus, but the more that are "out loud and proud" about it and nothing happens to (most of) them, the more will be encouraged to do likewise, until there is change. Remember the Founding Fathers - many of them lost everything they owned, and some were tortured to death. Are we lesser men? Having law enforcement trawling this site (as opposed to being bona-fide members out of personal interest) and seeing noncompliance etc. being discussed is actually a good thing. This way, maybe at least some JBT will think twice about kicking down doors to enforce unconstitutional and immoral laws. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:39:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
partially because those things have a direct coloration to having the site shutdown which does no one any good. Partially because that is what the site owner has asked us to do. This is not boogaloo.com and the rebellion will not be planned here in public on a public facing part of the site. If the avillas change that policy that is up to them. i suspect there are very few large popular gun sites that do not have a similar policy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: This policy is outdated and untenable in the current political environment considering what the future holds for gun owners. It is a product of a more civilized time. This site is on a collision course between its membership and the authoritarian state that will attempt to flex its muscle in coming decades. When the mere possession of “high” cap magazines, assault weapons and God forbid all semi-autos becomes criminalized we can all rest assured that ARFCom will be there to silence dissent and bad wrong “illegal” discussions that might be breaking the law. Why the stringent adherence to laws we fundamentally oppose on an ideological level? Conservatives surely seem destined to lose. One only has to look at how illegal immigration activists, civil rights marchers and Gay rights advocate plan and execute to render the laws unenforceable. If we do not do the same the death of private firearms ownership as we know it is guaranteed. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:39:02 AM EDT
[#25]
Did CoC #4 get reworded some time recently? I seem to recall that it used to only say no advocating the overthrow of the Fed govt, or something like that. Now it applies to anything that might be considered illegal anywhere
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:40:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I enhanced part of @The_Beer_Slayer response above. Has anybody considered that the CoC may be doing us all a HUGE favor? This IS an important topic. This unsecured venue is NOT the right place for these sorts of discussions. Take a lesson from our enemies- they do NOT discuss strategy, much less potentially illegal conduct, in public. Know where to discuss activism, both white, gray, and black? a. Build parties. Does anybody even have these any more? Get together in somebody's garage, put some cool things together, meet like-minded folks, make friends, and discuss activism among friends. b. Gun ranges/shooting spots and gun shows. I hate range nazis as much as everybody else, but that's where you meet other gun people. Beware of who you are speaking with because of plants and other problem children. But maybe you'll meet some good folks or get ideas here. c. Secured online places. WhatsApp, Viber, Line, Telegram, Signal, and plenty of others are out there. Hillary's campaign made great use of Signal. If it's good enough for her and her ilk..... There's a reason Antifa, BLM, and other groups are effective. They've learned OPSEC. So should we. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
discussion no. actively encouraging people to break the law. yes and always has been an issue. 4. Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. There is zero issue with discussing the laws or organizing to protest or remove them. We can not allow active discussion on how to circumvent them in an illegal manner. We have never allowed that. the thread in question was locked for the correct reasons. The way it was handled was not and i am reviewing those actions. Has anybody considered that the CoC may be doing us all a HUGE favor? This IS an important topic. This unsecured venue is NOT the right place for these sorts of discussions. Take a lesson from our enemies- they do NOT discuss strategy, much less potentially illegal conduct, in public. Know where to discuss activism, both white, gray, and black? a. Build parties. Does anybody even have these any more? Get together in somebody's garage, put some cool things together, meet like-minded folks, make friends, and discuss activism among friends. b. Gun ranges/shooting spots and gun shows. I hate range nazis as much as everybody else, but that's where you meet other gun people. Beware of who you are speaking with because of plants and other problem children. But maybe you'll meet some good folks or get ideas here. c. Secured online places. WhatsApp, Viber, Line, Telegram, Signal, and plenty of others are out there. Hillary's campaign made great use of Signal. If it's good enough for her and her ilk..... There's a reason Antifa, BLM, and other groups are effective. They've learned OPSEC. So should we. The fuck you talking about? They openly post that shit on twitter, take video and tweet it out. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:41:27 AM EDT
[#27]
I'm way late to the thread, but non-compliance is coc4 and compliance is coc7.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:41:30 AM EDT
[#28]
We are entering an age where everything you do online can and will be used against you.
Believe that. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:42:27 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
personally i don't disagree with much of that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: This is why this site will never be an effective advocate for the 2nd Amendment. "Positive image of the gun community" is just double speak for presenting a completely law abiding, non confrontational, white bread, passive image. It's like the dog crouching before it's master, rolling on it's belly hoping to not be punished. I get it. Staying under the radar is a strong motivator. However, it's in direct opposition to the founding premise of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to be scary for the government and those who wish to do its bidding. It is a lethal reminder that the people have the means to revolt, violently if pushed, when the government becomes tyrannical. If we forget that, or the people of this nation find that unpalatable, then all is already lost. Remember when the positive image of a gun owner was a patriot, standing with his rifle - ready to engage in violence against tyrants? Now, the positive image is a slightly overweight dude in khakis and a button down, who hides his guns at all opportunities (so as not to offend sensitive people) and only advocates following all laws - regardless of how onerous they are. Make sure you contact your legislators. Sorry for those of you who live in states that have large cities and your voice isn't heard. Keep voting and contacting your legislators - no matter how hopeless it is in reality. This site has everyone’s info. They have demonstrated through their actions that not only will they comply with whatever comes, they will assist! They have chosen sides, and because they have it would have been far better for the members here had this site never existed. The idea that this place is good for gun rights is laugahable. It COULD be, but it has demonstrated repeatedly it never will be. As it is, it is nothing more than an intelligence boon for the gun grabbers and a way to demoralize patriots and put them at risk of prosecution for thought crimes. With friends like that, who needs commies? The commies dont even have to gather the political power to censor us...you do it for them! At least the boomers made the commies win a war first before giving them everything. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:44:10 AM EDT
[#30]
Think of it like this. This is supposed to be a gun site... all 2A and 1A people and ideas.
It's OK to post a thread about smoking dope, a FEDERAL crime, or how to beat a piss test but a post about traveling through a state with a standard cap magazine gets squashed. That's how far off target it's become. 
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:44:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you placing the court above The People? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whose definition of "unconstitutional" ? Some guys on a gun forum, or the Supreme Courts ?? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:49:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Take a lesson from our enemies- they do NOT discuss strategy, much less potentially illegal conduct, in public." The fuck you talking about? They openly post that shit on twitter, take video and tweet it out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
discussion no. actively encouraging people to break the law. yes and always has been an issue. 4. Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. There is zero issue with discussing the laws or organizing to protest or remove them. We can not allow active discussion on how to circumvent them in an illegal manner. We have never allowed that. the thread in question was locked for the correct reasons. The way it was handled was not and i am reviewing those actions. Has anybody considered that the CoC may be doing us all a HUGE favor? This IS an important topic. This unsecured venue is NOT the right place for these sorts of discussions. Take a lesson from our enemies- they do NOT discuss strategy, much less potentially illegal conduct, in public. Know where to discuss activism, both white, gray, and black? a. Build parties. Does anybody even have these any more? Get together in somebody's garage, put some cool things together, meet like-minded folks, make friends, and discuss activism among friends. b. Gun ranges/shooting spots and gun shows. I hate range nazis as much as everybody else, but that's where you meet other gun people. Beware of who you are speaking with because of plants and other problem children. But maybe you'll meet some good folks or get ideas here. c. Secured online places. WhatsApp, Viber, Line, Telegram, Signal, and plenty of others are out there. Hillary's campaign made great use of Signal. If it's good enough for her and her ilk..... There's a reason Antifa, BLM, and other groups are effective. They've learned OPSEC. So should we. The fuck you talking about? They openly post that shit on twitter, take video and tweet it out. The differing strategies of peaceful non-compliance, and direct-action both have their place. What the right has finally started to learn is that "polite discourse" is becoming an impossibility, and proponents of our freedoms need to be more "out" in their lives. Being a Grey-man only delays the inevitable. It does not effect positive change. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:51:35 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The simple answer is the CoC must be changed or this site will die. Period. We should not have a CoC that prohibits doing the right thing. Resistance and civil disobedience of unjust laws is virtuous. It is the right thing. The fact that you can name every historical American hero from Sam Adams to Martian Luther King Jr. and they'd all get banned if they were here today is proof that Arfcom is in the wrong. This is not Canada, England, or Australia. We will NOT follow rules of engagement meant to appease the enemy. I assert that this message is not a CoC violation (7) because it is made from a desire to save this site from management/ownership induced failure.  The mag ban in CO is such a low-hanging fruit regarding noncompliance (and related public discourse), with noncompliance carrying such obvious benefits and little cost/risk to the Freedom Movement, that it's really hard to understand why this site is choosing to make it the threshold for "encouraging criminal activity". Even if someone's convicted, it's just a misdemeanor for crying out loud. If I say "hey you guys should jaywalk more often, it's fun!" will that get me banned? Heck, if one of the CO Sheriffs who won't enforce the mag ban gets on here and posts that people in his county shouldn't be worried because he won't enforce it, will that get him banned?? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:54:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ^^^^^^^^ - totally agree. democrats/leftists just ignore laws they don't like while for some reason the rest of us are just supposed to sit around and eat shit. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:55:07 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Take a lesson from our enemies- they do NOT discuss strategy, much less potentially illegal conduct, in public." The fuck you talking about? They openly post that shit on twitter, take video and tweet it out. AFTER the fact. Do you see pre-action and planning threads with details? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:57:38 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why this site will never be an effective advocate for the 2nd Amendment. "Positive image of the gun community" is just double speak for presenting a completely law abiding, non confrontational, white bread, passive image. It's like the dog crouching before it's master, rolling on it's belly hoping to not be punished. I get it. Staying under the radar is a strong motivator. However, it's in direct opposition to the founding premise of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to be scary for the government and those who wish to do its bidding. It is a lethal reminder that the people have the means to revolt, violently if pushed, when the government becomes tyrannical. If we forget that, or the people of this nation find that unpalatable, then all is already lost. Remember when the positive image of a gun owner was a patriot, standing with his rifle - ready to engage in violence against tyrants? Now, the positive image is a slightly overweight dude in khakis and a button down, who hides his guns at all opportunities (so as not to offend sensitive people) and only advocates following all laws - regardless of how onerous they are. Make sure you contact your legislators. Sorry for those of you who live in states that have large cities and your voice isn't heard. Keep voting and contacting your legislators - no matter how hopeless it is in reality. The delusion of people who think otherwise is is downright pitiful.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:58:05 AM EDT
[#37]
I think people buy things thinking it sounds cool to own them without a complete understanding of what it means to actually own such a thing.
People who are more concerned about their public “image” and making money are not normally the folks who enjoy facilitating a lively public discourse. Just saying. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 10:58:53 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great post Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. "Positive image of the gun community" is just double speak for presenting a completely law abiding, non confrontational, white bread, passive image. It's like the dog crouching before it's master, rolling on it's belly hoping to not be punished. I get it. Staying under the radar is a strong motivator. However, it's in direct opposition to the founding premise of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to be scary for the government and those who wish to do its bidding. It is a lethal reminder that the people have the means to revolt, violently if pushed, when the government becomes tyrannical. If we forget that, or the people of this nation find that unpalatable, then all is already lost. Remember when the positive image of a gun owner was a patriot, standing with his rifle - ready to engage in violence against tyrants? Now, the positive image is a slightly overweight dude in khakis and a button down, who hides his guns at all opportunities (so as not to offend sensitive people) and only advocates following all laws - regardless of how onerous they are. Make sure you contact your legislators. Sorry for those of you who live in states that have large cities and your voice isn't heard. Keep voting and contacting your legislators - no matter how hopeless it is in reality. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:01:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m talking about a “million mag March” or the like in a ban state. A peaceful and non-violent protest. Not starting the 2nd American civil war. Geeze |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:03:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The well-behaved, polite, and scrupulously law-abiding gun owner does not have a future. Our enemies will never stop hating us and will never stop working to destroy us, no matter how much effort goes into appeasing them. The delusion of people who think otherwise is is downright pitiful. No one ever won a war fighting defensive battles. Appeasement does not work. I get it that forums need to display a clean public image if they ever hope to present a wholesome view of the Second Amendment. The trouble is just what you've stated. I appreciate any efforts to advance gun rights. I'm also aware of the fact that our side is continuously on the defensive and beating an organized retreat. We should be advancing toward repealing laws if we expect to keep the 2A, not merely preventing new laws being passed. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:03:50 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think of it like this. This is supposed to be a gun site... all 2A and 1A people and ideas. It's OK to post a thread about smoking dope, a FEDERAL crime, or how to beat a piss test but a post about traveling through a state with a standard cap magazine gets squashed. That's how far off target it's become. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:03:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@exDefensorMilitas AFTER the fact. Do you see pre-action and planning threads with details? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: "Take a lesson from our enemies- they do NOT discuss strategy, much less potentially illegal conduct, in public." The fuck you talking about? They openly post that shit on twitter, take video and tweet it out. AFTER the fact. Do you see pre-action and planning threads with details? What is being discussed in this thread, as well as the two that spawned it, hardly rises to the level of planning. It is discussion of philosophy and doctrine. That is something our opponents do quite openly. They have no fear of repercussions for their stated positions, so why do we? "Molon Grandkids" and "Molon 401k" has too strong a pull for some on our side to overcome. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:04:00 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why this site will never be an effective advocate for the 2nd Amendment. "Positive image of the gun community" is just double speak for presenting a completely law abiding, non confrontational, white bread, passive image. It's like the dog crouching before it's master, rolling on it's belly hoping to not be punished. I get it. Staying under the radar is a strong motivator. However, it's in direct opposition to the founding premise of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to be scary for the government and those who wish to do its bidding. It is a lethal reminder that the people have the means to revolt, violently if pushed, when the government becomes tyrannical. If we forget that, or the people of this nation find that unpalatable, then all is already lost. Remember when the positive image of a gun owner was a patriot, standing with his rifle - ready to engage in violence against tyrants? Now, the positive image is a slightly overweight dude in khakis and a button down, who hides his guns at all opportunities (so as not to offend sensitive people) and only advocates following all laws - regardless of how onerous they are. Make sure you contact your legislators. Sorry for those of you who live in states that have large cities and your voice isn't heard. Keep voting and contacting your legislators - no matter how hopeless it is in reality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: we need to remember the site is regularly watched by fed and news agencies. The owners want to present a positive image of the gun community. "Positive image of the gun community" is just double speak for presenting a completely law abiding, non confrontational, white bread, passive image. It's like the dog crouching before it's master, rolling on it's belly hoping to not be punished. I get it. Staying under the radar is a strong motivator. However, it's in direct opposition to the founding premise of the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to be scary for the government and those who wish to do its bidding. It is a lethal reminder that the people have the means to revolt, violently if pushed, when the government becomes tyrannical. If we forget that, or the people of this nation find that unpalatable, then all is already lost. Remember when the positive image of a gun owner was a patriot, standing with his rifle - ready to engage in violence against tyrants? Now, the positive image is a slightly overweight dude in khakis and a button down, who hides his guns at all opportunities (so as not to offend sensitive people) and only advocates following all laws - regardless of how onerous they are. Make sure you contact your legislators. Sorry for those of you who live in states that have large cities and your voice isn't heard. Keep voting and contacting your legislators - no matter how hopeless it is in reality. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:05:25 AM EDT
[#44]
Looks that way
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:05:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I enhanced part of @The_Beer_Slayer response above. Has anybody considered that the CoC may be doing us all a HUGE favor? This IS an important topic. This unsecured venue is NOT the right place for these sorts of discussions. Take a lesson from our enemies- they do NOT discuss strategy, much less potentially illegal conduct, in public. Know where to discuss activism, both white, gray, and black? a. Build parties. Does anybody even have these any more? Get together in somebody's garage, put some cool things together, meet like-minded folks, make friends, and discuss activism among friends. b. Gun ranges/shooting spots and gun shows. I hate range nazis as much as everybody else, but that's where you meet other gun people. Beware of who you are speaking with because of plants and other problem children. But maybe you'll meet some good folks or get ideas here. c. Secured online places. WhatsApp, Viber, Line, Telegram, Signal, and plenty of others are out there. Hillary's campaign made great use of Signal. If it's good enough for her and her ilk..... There's a reason Antifa, BLM, and other groups are effective. They've learned OPSEC. So should we. Gun owners discussing gun laws and civil disobedience should not have to be silent. What is there to be OPSEC about? Nothing in that thread stood out as “advocating breaking the law” it was more a discussion about how it’s been mostly ignored. In fact, the law is pretty clear on what the OP is allowed to do. But let’s lock the thread anyway. Or maybe just keep letting mods troll the membership. PSA threads, site resources, and shit for brains. What an amalgam are we. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:09:48 AM EDT
[#46]
This answer probably isn’t going to satisfy a lot of people but the truth is that it depends on what you post. “Will not comply” will probably be fine while “I’ve got three wish.com Glock sears and a pile of Swiftlinks and I don’t give a fuck who knows it” is going to generate some negative attention.
There’s never going to be a blanket “fuck the law” statement from management here. This isn’t going to be a site where you can openly talk about illegally building machineguns and IEDs. Discussions about political violence are going to get a close look. This site probably isn’t going to be ground zero for any revolution. None of this should really come as a big surprise to anyone that’s been here and paying attention though, because none of it is new. It’s always been that way here. I understand that some people want a lot more than that but that’s never been Arfcom. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:10:16 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussing anything that voids a gun manufacture’s warranty will be a COC.
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:12:01 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This answer probably isn’t going to satisfy a lot of people but the truth is that it depends on what you post. “Will not comply” will probably be fine while “I’ve got three wish.com Glock sears and a pile of Swiftlinks and I don’t give a fuck who knows it” is going to generate some negative attention. There’s never going to be a blanket “fuck the law” statement from management here. This isn’t going to be a site where you can openly talk about illegally building machineguns and IEDs. Discussions about political violence are going to get a close look. This site probably isn’t going to be ground zero for any revolution. None of this should really come as a big surprise to anyone that’s been here and paying attention though, because none of it is new. It’s always been that way here. I understand that some people want a lot more than that but that’s never been Arfcom. That isn’t at all what was happening in that thread. |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:12:03 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think about something..... Trump is doing good but he has also been either the cause or allowed far worse unconstitutional tyrannical overreaches of 2A rights than any of the recent democrats. What that means is if you look past the blind Trump lovers and at the majority of us who voted for him, at the core we are not pleased with him. But to admit his fault in a sense admits we are wrong and not many like dealing with that. Then with the flamboyant postulation of the liberals and the liberal owned media we need a mouth piece. We hated on the NRA, we don't want to hate Trump so what's left? We hate each other. The truth is the mods are doing their best, the members in general are doing nothing wrong but a few clashes happen and it seems like it is us against them inside this echo chamber. Ultimately it falls on leadership to course correct and I am glad that is not my responsibility, I have too much of those already. I am just here to feed my passion and to hang around like minded folks (at least virtually). One more thing... tin foil or not... This site is famous so would it not be reasonable to believe the liberals plant people here just to cause upheaval and get us to bickering and turn on each other? |
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Posted: 10/16/2019 11:12:14 AM EDT
[#50]
Threads like these on a site where people say not to send the ATF letters
Sorry guys, a public forum isn't where you're gonna plan out Operation Mayhem or whatever. Figure out where you can do so, and do your illegal (if righteous) planning there. Arfcom's political purpose only goes as far as outreach, a d that's a good thing. |
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