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Posted: 1/12/2021 10:13:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: Sorry, my question was "is it 4x4", and I guess not true 4x4 but all wheels will Turn when completed. I remember you mentioning transfer case and didn't know if you were actually doing an entire drive train or not. Yes,  We just need another day to get all 4 working together in video. 
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Posted: 1/12/2021 11:09:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Yes, We just need another day to get all 4 working together in video. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By brass: Sorry, my question was "is it 4x4", and I guess not true 4x4 but all wheels will Turn when completed. I remember you mentioning transfer case and didn't know if you were actually doing an entire drive train or not. Yes, We just need another day to get all 4 working together in video. Got it. The perforated wheels look very nice when moving, with the chevrons still giving the glance impression of "truck tire", executed beautifully! |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 12:14:49 AM EDT
[#3]
So glad you got em turning. I just noticed - and I'll defer to the Road Runners among us - the tire tread would tend to push the fine Martian dust away from the tire? If it was oriented the other way, would it not add traction?
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Posted: 1/13/2021 8:47:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: So glad you got em turning. I just noticed - and I'll defer to the Road Runners among us - the tire tread would tend to push the fine Martian dust away from the tire? If it was oriented the other way, would it not add traction?  Pretty sure my tractor gurus from last year all agreed this is the way the chevrons should go. My 4 wheeler's tire tread look the same. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:46:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Update 1/13
This is our little Arduino and power(something ) that allows us to turn down the power to our wheels, slowing them. This is before we mounted them and cleaned up the rats nest a bit. Hopefully this morning we can figure out what got disconnected to the front motor to shut it off.  Adjusting the chain length yesterday to make sure it doesn't come off.  
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Posted: 1/14/2021 10:48:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Update 1/14
We had a busy day yesterday. We got the tractor running autonomously all day. That was good. Bad news is our wheels are not turning this morning. .....no motor sounds....we might have burned them up by trying to regulate the speed with voltage.  We will be testing today.  We did get the windshield dusted......   We also began running the wiring for our Mars train.  We ran out of zip ties, so we had to wait till today to finish. We are using zip ties to attach the wiring to the back of the track support(1x2). 
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Posted: 1/14/2021 11:37:17 AM EDT
[#7]
We got the wheels moving again. They were pretty stiff to try to turn by hand. Once "broken free" and increasing the voltage just a bit, now everything is working correctly.
I don't think we've fixed our problem.  We will see how it behaves today.
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Posted: 1/14/2021 12:39:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Guns, are your electronics/computer students using PWM to control the motors?
I think that is what they should be doing. That way the motors are always getting 12v but it is like you have a crazy monkey turning a switch on and off really fast. The motor only sees 12v but the average voltage would be a lot lower resulting in lower motor speed. Someone, I'm sure, will correct me if my explanation is wrong. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 5:57:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raffi383: Guns, are your electronics/computer students using PWM to control the motors? I think that is what they should be doing. That way the motors are always getting 12v but it is like you have a crazy monkey turning a switch on and off really fast. The motor only sees 12v but the average voltage would be a lot lower resulting in lower motor speed. Someone, I'm sure, will correct me if my explanation is wrong. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raffi383: Guns, are your electronics/computer students using PWM to control the motors? I think that is what they should be doing. That way the motors are always getting 12v but it is like you have a crazy monkey turning a switch on and off really fast. The motor only sees 12v but the average voltage would be a lot lower resulting in lower motor speed. Someone, I'm sure, will correct me if my explanation is wrong. After running this by my son, who gave a presentation to the Computer Science class today about these projects..... I got a long dissertation about ....something....  His simplified text to me later after showing your quote to him: His explanation of PWM is correct, but the slow mechanical relays are stopping us from using PWM. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 6:10:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: After running this by my son, who gave a presentation to the Computer Science class today about these projects..... I got a long dissertation about ....something.... His simplified text to me later after showing your quote to him: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By raffi383: Guns, are your electronics/computer students using PWM to control the motors? I think that is what they should be doing. That way the motors are always getting 12v but it is like you have a crazy monkey turning a switch on and off really fast. The motor only sees 12v but the average voltage would be a lot lower resulting in lower motor speed. Someone, I'm sure, will correct me if my explanation is wrong. After running this by my son, who gave a presentation to the Computer Science class today about these projects..... I got a long dissertation about ....something.... His simplified text to me later after showing your quote to him: His explanation of PWM is correct, but the slow mechanical relays are stopping us from using PWM. Use SSR which can deal with PWM? Do the wheels need to be reversible? DC motors will run hot/inefficient at lower than design voltage, but getting many pulses of full voltage controls their speed just fine. Usually can't just run 6V o a 12V motor to make it go slower if there is any sort of load on it at all. Sometimes you can get away with sending lower voltage on a very underloaded motor, but in some cases, you cannot, this seems to be one of those cases. Is there a gearhead on the motor or gear reduction anywhere? If not reversible, use Low Side Switching MOSFETs to control only speed and have one direction, otherwise a high current H-Bridge motor drive card would work and could do PWM. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 6:18:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Update 1/14.2
We think we mitigated the cause of the axle seizing up. I think as it continued to spin yesterday, all day, every 10min or so as people walked under it, the paint that might have leaked into our axle housing(pvc pipes) was melting, and holding it. The motors have been running the wheels perfectly all day. This morning we took the locking pieces off of our axles and sprayed grease into the main housing. We then pushed the axle laterally and did the opposite side, where the sprockets were. We think this will keep them from seizing any further. Hopefully we didn't damage the motors last night.    We also got our Spacely Space Sprockets logo on.  |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 6:34:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: After running this by my son, who gave a presentation to the Computer Science class today about these projects..... I got a long dissertation about ....something.... His simplified text to me later after showing your quote to him: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By raffi383: Guns, are your electronics/computer students using PWM to control the motors? I think that is what they should be doing. That way the motors are always getting 12v but it is like you have a crazy monkey turning a switch on and off really fast. The motor only sees 12v but the average voltage would be a lot lower resulting in lower motor speed. Someone, I'm sure, will correct me if my explanation is wrong. After running this by my son, who gave a presentation to the Computer Science class today about these projects..... I got a long dissertation about ....something.... His simplified text to me later after showing your quote to him: His explanation of PWM is correct, but the slow mechanical relays are stopping us from using PWM. 
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Posted: 1/15/2021 10:39:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#13]
Update 1/15 New video. This shows our wheels moving as of this morning. I think we may do some major rework. The chains are still trying to skip, because of the looseness of the main axles. We may try to go back and design everything around a belt drive assembly instead of chain.
I think we went with chain because of the availability of everything in the Robotics lab, but I don't think this is a system we can live with. It will be headaches after head aches. I'm hoping I can get a few students to draw up the pulleys we will need around available belts. We should be able to use the plasma cutter to get those cut out.I forgot to add.......if you listen close.. ....you can hear the Rigid tool going in the background.....way down the hall. Mars John Deere test 2 |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 1:38:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Update 1/15 New video. This shows our wheels moving as of this morning. I think we may do some major rework. The chains are still trying to skip, because of the looseness of the main axles. We may try to go back and design everything around a belt drive assembly instead of chain. I think we went with chain because of the availability of everything in the Robotics lab, but I don't think this is a system we can live with. It will be headaches after head aches. I'm hoping I can get a few students to draw up the pulleys we will need around available belts. We should be able to use the plasma cutter to get those cut out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_8G6hzM5UoIt's looking good. Do the wheels Turn on motion detect and pause the rest of the time? Belt would be quieter but that didn't seem too loud, there's future Gunz would also appreciate the lack of oil dripping form a belt when the chain starts to squeak and gets a tune up. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 1:39:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Pulley ideas: https://www.andymark.com/categories/pulleys
Belts: https://www.andymark.com/categories/belts If you can keep the axles from moving out of position, you may be able to get away with a tensioner on the chain or belt to keep it tight. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 1:59:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: It's looking good. Do the wheels Turn on motion detect and pause the rest of the time? Belt would be quieter but that didn't seem too loud, there's future Gunz would also appreciate the lack of oil dripping form a belt when the chain starts to squeak and gets a tune up. Yes, it does activate with a motion sensor. I just had it turned off over night so there weren't any surprises until we get more testing. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:01:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raffi383: Pulley ideas: https://www.andymark.com/categories/pulleys Belts: https://www.andymark.com/categories/belts If you can keep the axles from moving out of position, you may be able to get away with a tensioner on the chain or belt to keep it tight. Thank you! Those might come in handy. We are running with the idea of making custom pulleys, and attaching right to the drive shaft. Not sure we can pull it off, but willing to play around with it. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:03:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Sorry to bust the bubble. There's nothing on Mars, and, humans WILL NOT live on another planet by leaving Earth. You might blast some DNA into space hoping it hits a habitable lump, but that's about it.
When I see the homeless guy on my street corner begging for a dime so he can eat for the day, I don't give 2 craps about Mars. Wasting taxpayer $$ kinda errgs me. But hey, I like the set of trophies. It's good to get the minds of young kids moving & thinking. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:09:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: redoubt]
[#19]
I think the spinning wheels are great.
I have one small, tiny, little observation. The bottom of the tractor and the sides of the wheels are too clean. You guys put dust on the tire treads, and on the windshield, but there should be dust (and just maybe mud) on the undercarriage and sides of the wheels. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:21:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizardali: Sorry to bust the bubble. There's nothing on Mars, and, humans WILL NOT live on another planet by leaving Earth. You might blast some DNA into space hoping it hits a habitable lump, but that's about it. When I see the homeless guy on my street corner begging for a dime so he can eat for the day, I don't give 2 craps about Mars. Wasting taxpayer $$ kinda errgs me. But hey, I like the set of trophies. It's good to get the minds of young kids moving & thinking. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:10:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Our corporate logo for the iOn Blade.
 
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:11:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redoubt: I think the spinning wheels are great. I have one small, tiny, little observation. The bottom of the tractor and the sides of the wheels are too clean. You guys put dust on the tire treads, and on the windshield, but there should be dust (and just maybe mud) on the undercarriage and sides of the wheels. We've got quite a bit of dirt on the underside, and I'll try to get some pictures. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:18:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote History
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Posted: 1/15/2021 9:27:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizardali: Sorry to bust the bubble. There's nothing on Mars, and, humans WILL NOT live on another planet by leaving Earth. You might blast some DNA into space hoping it hits a habitable lump, but that's about it. When I see the homeless guy on my street corner begging for a dime so he can eat for the day, I don't give 2 craps about Mars. Wasting taxpayer $$ kinda errgs me. But hey, I like the set of trophies. It's good to get the minds of young kids moving & thinking. Florida Man's HERE! Were you the guy that took the tikki bar barge? |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 1:56:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redoubt: I think the spinning wheels are great. I have one small, tiny, little observation. The bottom of the tractor and the sides of the wheels are too clean. You guys put dust on the tire treads, and on the windshield, but there should be dust (and just maybe mud) on the undercarriage and sides of the wheels. After a second look at the bottom, I understand your critique. We need more dirt. They will be so excited.  |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:21:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: After a second look at the bottom, I understand your critique. We need more dirt. They will be so excited. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By redoubt: I think the spinning wheels are great. I have one small, tiny, little observation. The bottom of the tractor and the sides of the wheels are too clean. You guys put dust on the tire treads, and on the windshield, but there should be dust (and just maybe mud) on the undercarriage and sides of the wheels. After a second look at the bottom, I understand your critique. We need more dirt. They will be so excited. Happy to help. 
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:41:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wizardali: Sorry to bust the bubble. There's nothing on Mars, and, humans WILL NOT live on another planet by leaving Earth. You might blast some DNA into space hoping it hits a habitable lump, but that's about it. When I see the homeless guy on my street corner begging for a dime so he can eat for the day, I don't give 2 craps about Mars. Wasting taxpayer $$ kinda errgs me. But hey, I like the set of trophies. It's good to get the minds of young kids moving & thinking. If you read the entire context of this project, you will see that much of the money, tools, and ideas are donated by the community and arfcom. Not only are the students learning about art, but they are also learning life skills such as following through on a project when the first try doesn’t work. They also learn how to pay attention to the details and take ownership of their work. Try looking at this through a different perspective. Here is a teacher who gives a damn about his students. Wish I had that when I was in school. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 12:00:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Desertshark76239: If you read the entire context of this project, you will see that much of the money, tools, and ideas are donated by the community and arfcom. Not only are the students learning about art, but they are also learning life skills such as following through on a project when the first try doesn’t work. They also learn how to pay attention to the details and take ownership of their work. Try looking at this through a different perspective. Here is a teacher who gives a damn about his students. Wish I had that when I was in school. 
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Posted: 1/16/2021 12:11:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: After a second look at the bottom, I understand your critique. We need more dirt. They will be so excited. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By redoubt: I think the spinning wheels are great. I have one small, tiny, little observation. The bottom of the tractor and the sides of the wheels are too clean. You guys put dust on the tire treads, and on the windshield, but there should be dust (and just maybe mud) on the undercarriage and sides of the wheels. After a second look at the bottom, I understand your critique. We need more dirt. They will be so excited. 
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Posted: 1/16/2021 12:15:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seiran: Probably could use a few more minor detail work like chipped paint, dings, and some rivets. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seiran: Originally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By redoubt: I think the spinning wheels are great. I have one small, tiny, little observation. The bottom of the tractor and the sides of the wheels are too clean. You guys put dust on the tire treads, and on the windshield, but there should be dust (and just maybe mud) on the undercarriage and sides of the wheels. After a second look at the bottom, I understand your critique. We need more dirt. They will be so excited. You don't know how funny that would be......they just touched up the chips and scratches we got while installing it. They would be pissed!
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Posted: 1/16/2021 12:17:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: You don't know how funny that would be......they just touched up the chips and scratches we got while installing it. They would be pissed! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By Seiran: Originally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By redoubt: I think the spinning wheels are great. I have one small, tiny, little observation. The bottom of the tractor and the sides of the wheels are too clean. You guys put dust on the tire treads, and on the windshield, but there should be dust (and just maybe mud) on the undercarriage and sides of the wheels. After a second look at the bottom, I understand your critique. We need more dirt. They will be so excited. You don't know how funny that would be......they just touched up the chips and scratches we got while installing it. They would be pissed!
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Posted: 1/16/2021 12:33:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seiran: Well, I mean they brought it on themselves. A little dry brush and sponge work with metallic silver would be a very nice touch before they add more dirt. I like this idea. 
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Posted: 1/16/2021 4:11:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: A little dry brush and sponge work with metallic silver would be a very nice touch before they add more dirt. I like this idea. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By Seiran: Well, I mean they brought it on themselves. A little dry brush and sponge work with metallic silver would be a very nice touch before they add more dirt. I like this idea. 
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Posted: 1/16/2021 4:13:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seiran: YAY! I'm helping! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seiran: Originally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By Seiran: Well, I mean they brought it on themselves. A little dry brush and sponge work with metallic silver would be a very nice touch before they add more dirt. I like this idea. Congratulations! It is a good idea to blend it in, and some scratches on the underside from cruising over rocks would fit in nicely, big long streaks. I haven't managed to come up with anything this year. I ran out of creativity and tips.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:42:06 PM EDT
[#35]
If someone drove a tractor into a rock on Mars, the tractor would need to be repaired.
The easiest way to accomplish this would be to bend an aluminum panel and rivet in place, then paint it. It would be a pity if the MPS coverage was spotty and the farmers kept running into a lot of rocks.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:30:38 AM EDT
[#36]
Update 1/16
My youngest son and I did a basic wiring of the Martian Hyperloop today. He has to go back to UW on Tuesday, so we wanted to get the basic test up and out of the way. Next week, students will hopefully refine the mounting box and clean up the wiring. The motion sensor triggers the Hyperloop Martian train to go on its journey, and then come back. It then waites 10min before being able to again run its course.  Martian Hyperloop test #1 |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:43:47 AM EDT
[#37]
I nominate the new Martian currency to be... rivets.
Train tickets will be denominated in rivets. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 12:53:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: redoubt]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: I nominate the new Martian currency to be... rivets. Train tickets will be denominated in rivets. 10 Leaves to a Rivet. 100 Rivets to an Arduino. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 1:09:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Update 1/16 My youngest son and I did a basic wiring of the Martian Hyperloop today. He has to go back to UW on Tuesday, so we wanted to get the basic test up and out of the way. Next week, students will hopefully refine the mounting box and clean up the wiring. The motion sensor triggers the Hyperloop Martian train to go on its journey, and then come back. It then waites 10min before being able to again run its course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la4DJ3B0sh8Looking awesome! Not sure how it is being controlled, if it's just running full speed between two sensors and if there's a variable speed control via microcontroller. If it isn't being run by a microcontroller, doing the slowing down and reversing is a much more difficult problem. Suggestion would be to use PWM to have it slow down near each end of the track and have a little 'bus stop' near a building/overlook it would pause at to make it a little more interesting over zipping back and forth, though that is really cool and turned out excellent! The PWM on the motors would give the appearance of brakes/momentum at each stop instead of instantly changing direction. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 10:51:26 AM EDT
[#40]
Update 1/19
We had a little uh oh, yesterday while further testing and working on our Hyperloop Mars train. One of the wires for this sensor was a little loose at the controller. Luckily, we had this train stop already glued on, and the train just ran into it and stopped. We are working on getting a second done for the other end before we end up recreating the train going off the bridge movie scene.   We made stands for the sensors so they can't get bumped out of place.  We are working to get a shelf that we can velcro the controller to. We want to be able to access the Arduino when needed to mess with the program, and maybe add to it....little more sophisticated/details.  We are still working on maybe making the John Deere Mars tractor go to belt drive instead of chain. There will be some testing and some 3D printing of parts before we decide to do it or not. So far, it is working flawlessly, other than the chain popping a little. 
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:12:02 AM EDT
[#41]
What if you isolated the last section of track so that it wasn’t powered?
If the sensor failed for whatever reason, the train would at least be slowing down before crashing into the stop and bursting into flame. It was going to burst into flame if it didn't stop in time, right? |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:38:00 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raffi383: What if you isolated the last section of track so that it wasn’t powered? If the sensor failed for whatever reason, the train would at least be slowing down before crashing into the stop and bursting into flame. It was going to burst into flame if it didn't stop in time, right? Not enough oxygen on Mars to burn. Any fires go out immediately unless they're continuously fed w/ a pressurized oxidizer. Guns, looks like you might need some more leaves to cover up all those wires... |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 12:18:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raffi383: What if you isolated the last section of track so that it wasn’t powered? If the sensor failed for whatever reason, the train would at least be slowing down before crashing into the stop and bursting into flame. It was going to burst into flame if it didn't stop in time, right? Good plan. We can do that. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 12:19:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Not enough oxygen on Mars to burn. Any fires go out immediately unless they're continuously fed w/ a pressurized oxidizer. Guns, looks like you might need some more leaves to cover up all those wires... Students realized this. 
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Posted: 1/19/2021 2:41:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Not enough oxygen on Mars to burn. Any fires go out immediately unless they're continuously fed w/ a pressurized oxidizer. Guns, looks like you might need some more leaves to cover up all those wires... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By raffi383: What if you isolated the last section of track so that it wasn’t powered? If the sensor failed for whatever reason, the train would at least be slowing down before crashing into the stop and bursting into flame. It was going to burst into flame if it didn't stop in time, right? Not enough oxygen on Mars to burn. Any fires go out immediately unless they're continuously fed w/ a pressurized oxidizer. Guns, looks like you might need some more leaves to cover up all those wires... In was looking forward to the video. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 2:48:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raffi383: In was looking forward to the video. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raffi383: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By raffi383: What if you isolated the last section of track so that it wasn’t powered? If the sensor failed for whatever reason, the train would at least be slowing down before crashing into the stop and bursting into flame. It was going to burst into flame if it didn't stop in time, right? Not enough oxygen on Mars to burn. Any fires go out immediately unless they're continuously fed w/ a pressurized oxidizer. Guns, looks like you might need some more leaves to cover up all those wires... In was looking forward to the video. This ought to tide you over.  Addams Family Train Wreck Scenes |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:26:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redoubt: This ought to tide you over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kS-vk9mPR8Good one. |
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Posted: 1/20/2021 11:27:13 AM EDT
[#48]
Update 1/20
We added a few details to the train stops.  We also took the advice to cut the track/power to the last section of track on either end. This, of course, required us to re position the power. We didn't realize what we did till we cut the segments....and train suddenly didn't work.   We got the power and control box mounted up on velcro, but while we were reorienting one of our power wires came loose from the arduino. That took us a bit to diagnose and fix.   We also began working in some dry brush scratches using metallic silver before we add more dirt.   |
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Posted: 1/20/2021 1:37:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Need some dust on the train. And the leaves...
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Posted: 1/20/2021 1:41:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Need some dust on the train. And the leaves... And don't forget the sides of the wheels. 
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