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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:36:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I know this is a sensitive topic, and I'm not trying to insult anyone....but I just want to ask the question. My wife is not super religious, but likes to go to church once a month or so. She says it makes her feel betterI'm ok with that. Every now and then she asks me to go with her..I don't want to, but it's my wifeand a marriage is a compromise. I'm a very strong willed, confident, emotionally strong person. Everything good or bad that happens to me is because of my own hard work, my good choices, my bad choices, or good/bad luck.that's it. I don't know how people can sit for an hour and listen to some preacher get up there ramble on and on about how they need to look for a higher power to believe in when things get them down, when things don't go right, or when they are having a rough time with life. I can listen to it for about 5 min, and my eyes glaze over and I'm thinking about riding dirt bikes, fishing, or a multitude of other things. I guess I just can't wrap my mind around how people can be so emotionally fragile, so weak minded, so out of touch with reality that they can't realize that everything that happens to them is of their own doing.nothing more, nothing less. What am I missing here? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:37:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Crackers and wine go great with cheese Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm looking for quick, accurate, logical points......not drawn out philosophical ramblings....that never accomplishes anything except wasting time.  His mind is so sharp he can't even conceive that somebody can be strong willed, confident, and emotionally strong and yet still believe in Magic Sky Daddy. Well gotta go again, this thread has made me so emotionally fragile, weak minded and so out of touch with reality I have to go handle snakes, speak in tongues and eat some unleavened read and drink some wine. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:38:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Just stay out of the church, you'll be a lot happier and hopefully it'll rub off on your wife.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:41:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like you've got it down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I don't know how people can sit for an hour and listen to some preacher get up there ramble on and on about how they need to look for a higher power to believe in when things get them down, when things don't go right, or when they are having a rough time with life. I can listen to it for about 5 min, and my eyes glaze over and I'm thinking about riding dirt bikes, fishing, or a multitude of other things. I guess I just can't wrap my mind around how people can be so emotionally fragile, so weak minded, so out of touch with reality that they can't realize that everything that happens to them is of their own doing.nothing more, nothing less. What am I missing here? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:41:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe my back will up to traveling to Classic and we'll break bread and cut the cheese. 
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:44:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A three year old girl gets leukemia. What action did they take to bring that on themselves? This guy explains. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:46:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s that arrogance again. Being capable of coping with "life" without needing emotional support in the form of a "god" is not a sign of weakness. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:51:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Confident, not arrogant. Not needing help is not a bad thing. Not having a hole that needs filled is a benefit, not a hindrance. Being capable of coping with "life" without needing emotional support in the form of a "god" is not a sign of weakness. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: There's that arrogance again. Being capable of coping with "life" without needing emotional support in the form of a "god" is not a sign of weakness. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:56:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s that arrogance again. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 3:59:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's frightening that you equate self-reliance and responsibility with arrogance. Reminds of people who use terms like 'toxic masculinity'. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: There’s that arrogance again. That's the arrogance. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:01:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Black church services are more entertaining and energetic. They have a band with a drummer and get down with the gospel.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:05:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm looking for quick, accurate, logical points......not drawn out philosophical ramblings....that never accomplishes anything except wasting time. You either take the time to process nuanced arguments and try to understand them or you cling to your lack of intellectual rigor and say that it's "confidence." Up to you. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:05:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Black church services are more entertaining and energetic. They have a band with a drummer and get down with the gospel. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:07:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its not just Black churches anymore. Around here, except for few Primitive Baptists, Church of Christ, and such, there is usually a full band with lights, effects, and such. Nowhere is the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt have a shitty time at Church." Reenact Jesus and the money-lenders every Sunday. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:08:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure....I agree. Nobody's perfect....but why would anyone want to be constantly reminded of that? You can't change the past but you can change the future. Why do you need a preacher to tell you that? It's all common sense. Be a good person, don't be a jerk, live life treating others how you want to be treated. Some times you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. That's life....deal with it. I guess some people just can't except that as their reality, and need to believe there is something bigger out there. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:09:18 PM EDT
[#16]
I am not much into organized religion myself, however, I have no need to say followers are weak minded, etc.
Everyone finds truth/higher power/God/inner peace their own way. As long as they do not preach at me or harm others, to each their own, OP, support your wife and be nice to everyone when you go with her. Happy wife and all that... |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:10:08 PM EDT
[#17]
I don't deal with it. I remove it from my life. I made it clear to my wife that if she ever turned religious I would divorce her, as I would no longer respect her. We removed my father in law from our house for prattling on about religion and do not humor it. Religious people should be treated the same as every other crazy person talking to their imaginary friend.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:11:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about a mosh pit? Reenact Jesus and the money-lenders every Sunday. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:11:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what he (or anyone else) is equating. It's the fact that OP keeps insisting that religious people are by definition not self reliant, can't get through life without the crutch of faith, are weak and stupid. That's the arrogance. It just doesn't make sense to me. How can you be self reliant.....but also "need" something to believe in to make you feel whole? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:11:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm looking for quick, accurate, logical points......not drawn out philosophical ramblings....that never accomplishes anything except wasting time. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:12:19 PM EDT
[#21]
TLDR,
I have self confidence and think for myself, therefore, I do not participate. Those who go will say the same thing except add that thy are a sinner and need some Jesus to be complete. I believe that's a dichotomy. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:15:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you depend on a higher power to get you through life......how is that "self reliance"? If you need a book to tell you what's right and wrong...how is that self reliance? If everything that happens is in fact because of some higher power that deems it to be, and you are not in control..... how is that self reliance? It just doesn't make sense to me. We do have free will and God is not going to force you to worship Him. I have faith but I'm not going yell, "Catch me Jesus!" and jump off a bridge expecting him to. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:22:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about a mosh pit? Reenact Jesus and the money-lenders every Sunday. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Its not just Black churches anymore. Around here, except for few Primitive Baptists, Church of Christ, and such, there is usually a full band with lights, effects, and such. Nowhere is the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt have a shitty time at Church." Reenact Jesus and the money-lenders every Sunday. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:23:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always liked Marcus Aurelius' stance. "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." I disagree. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:24:28 PM EDT
[#25]
I don't go to church, nor am I religious.
I do believe in God (actually I know that God exists due to an experience I had one time in which I "met" God, and God explained many things to me). There is really no need for church, or religion. Life itself will provide each person with all that they need. Our purpose is not to find God, or believe in God, but to live meaningful lives and do good things. God is in fact omniscient, but God "learns" through us what it can't learn as it exists as itself. It limits itself, separates itself into fragments, and we are those fragments. Our spirit is what is made in God's image. Our growth, our 'correction' through living many lives, and ultimately merging back into God, is what we are here for. The deeper spiritual lessons that we learn through our lives remain after our death in each life. What is not needed, or does not benefit us is cast aside. You don't need religion or church. You have everything you need within you and around you. Your body is your temple. That is not to say that religions do not provide guides and lessons, and even deeper meaning than even the most religious adherents can't see without the right eyes to see it. The Bible is more than just a book. Its a technology. Though it has been changed and diluted and had many lies added to it over the centuries. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:30:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do believe in God (actually I know that God exists due to an experience I had one time in which I "met" God, and God explained many things to me). It's rather vague. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:30:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you depend on a higher power to get you through life......how is that "self reliance"? If you need a book to tell you what's right and wrong...how is that self reliance? If everything that happens is in fact because of some higher power that deems it to be, and you are not in control..... how is that self reliance? It just doesn't make sense to me. How can you be self reliant.....but also "need" something to believe in to make you feel whole? Thus, yes, you in fact did need a book to tell you what's right and wrong. While it's arguable that most humans have a basic set of innate moral intuitions, it is clear from history that the Christian and Jewish scriptures in particular have been hugely influential in codifying and refining them. Your moral intuitions are a result of Christian influence whether you like it or not. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:31:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See Muslims. Yes, that is exactly what I’m saying. The fact you have one mother, one father, who marry and raise you. That’s jesus. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Did you know that what you described is because of Jesus’s teachings? What your parents taught you is because of Jesus. I'm guessing there are plenty of cultures of people on the planet who have been totally isolated from any idea of God or Jesus.....and I bet they have a standard set of morals and codes of conduct they live buy. If you don't think that is the case.....then every baby is nothing but a killing machine until they are taught religious teachings......kind of scary, and far fetched. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:33:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get really pissed when people say that without religion there would be no morality, and you need to believe that stuff in order to be a good person. I disagree. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:34:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You grew up in Western society, which is strongly grounded in Judeo-Christian ethics. Anyone who would argue otherwise is either ignorant of history or ethics (or both). You have been conditioned to live in accordance with a particular set of basic moral principles--don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, etc.--principles that are nonexistent in many (if not most) cultures throughout history. Where they are prevalent today is largely a result of Western influence on those cultures. Thus, yes, you in fact did need a book to tell you what's right and wrong. While it's arguable that most humans have a basic set of innate moral intuitions, it is clear from history that the Christian and Jewish scriptures in particular have been hugely influential in codifying and refining them. Your moral intuitions are a result of Christian influence whether you like it or not. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:34:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Confident, not arrogant. Not needing help is not a bad thing. Not having a hole that needs filled is a benefit, not a hindrance. Being capable of coping with "life" without needing emotional support in the form of a "god" is not a sign of weakness. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: There’s that arrogance again. Being capable of coping with "life" without needing emotional support in the form of a "god" is not a sign of weakness. You can’t have a conversation when you start out with the faulty assumption that someone is inferior to you. It colors your remarks and pervades your thinking. As you’ve shown here repeatedly. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:34:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In Japan people are pretty nice to each other. Perhaps the lowest homicide rate in the world for any large country, we're talking 4 times less than the UK and around 16 times less than the US. Yet, so few of them believe in Christianity and they have a huge non-religious population. That blows that argument out of the water. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:35:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's frightening that you equate self-reliance and responsibility with arrogance. Reminds of people who use terms like 'toxic masculinity'. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: There’s that arrogance again. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:35:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about a mosh pit? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Its not just Black churches anymore. Around here, except for few Primitive Baptists, Church of Christ, and such, there is usually a full band with lights, effects, and such. Nowhere is the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt have a shitty time at Church." |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:36:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For someone who is so strong willed and confident in his beliefs, you sure are spending a lot of time trying to justify (to yourself, maybe ?) your set of beliefs (or non-beliefs). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Sure....I agree. Nobody's perfect....but why would anyone want to be constantly reminded of that? You can't change the past but you can change the future. Why do you need a preacher to tell you that? It's all common sense. Be a good person, don't be a jerk, live life treating others how you want to be treated. Some times you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. That's life....deal with it. I guess some people just can't except that as their reality, and need to believe there is something bigger out there. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:38:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you depend on a higher power to get you through life......how is that "self reliance"? If you need a book to tell you what's right and wrong...how is that self reliance? If everything that happens is in fact because of some higher power that deems it to be, and you are not in control..... how is that self reliance? It just doesn't make sense to me. How can you be self reliant.....but also "need" something to believe in to make you feel whole? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: That's not what he (or anyone else) is equating. It's the fact that OP keeps insisting that religious people are by definition not self reliant, can't get through life without the crutch of faith, are weak and stupid. That's the arrogance. It just doesn't make sense to me. How can you be self reliant.....but also "need" something to believe in to make you feel whole? Is a person like that not self reliant? This is where you're arrogance comes in. You're making a HUGE assumption concerning the role religion plays in every religious person's life. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:38:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Confident, not arrogant. Not needing help is not a bad thing. Not having a hole that needs filled is a benefit, not a hindrance. Being capable of coping with "life" without needing emotional support in the form of a "god" is not a sign of weakness. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: There’s that arrogance again. Being capable of coping with "life" without needing emotional support in the form of a "god" is not a sign of weakness. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:41:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the wording in the title is extremely loaded. It's no different than those "enlightened" college kids who call themselves "freethinkers."
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:41:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nah he doesn't care about that. He only needs to feel better than those weak willed Believers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Sure....I agree. Nobody's perfect....but why would anyone want to be constantly reminded of that? You can't change the past but you can change the future. Why do you need a preacher to tell you that? It's all common sense. Be a good person, don't be a jerk, live life treating others how you want to be treated. Some times you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. That's life....deal with it. I guess some people just can't except that as their reality, and need to believe there is something bigger out there. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:45:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You grew up in Western society, which is strongly grounded in Judeo-Christian ethics. Anyone who would argue otherwise is either ignorant of history or ethics (or both). You have been conditioned to live in accordance with a particular set of basic moral principles--don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, etc.--principles that are nonexistent in many (if not most) cultures throughout history. Where they are prevalent today is largely a result of Western influence on those cultures. Thus, yes, you in fact did need a book to tell you what's right and wrong. While it's arguable that most humans have a basic set of innate moral intuitions, it is clear from history that the Christian and Jewish scriptures in particular have been hugely influential in codifying and refining them. Your moral intuitions are a result of Christian influence whether you like it or not. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:50:41 PM EDT
[#41]
It's maybe also worth remembering that just for example, some of the earliest settlers in America were extremely religious and they sailed across the ocean and made a new life. But yeah, totally a bunch of weak willed pussies.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:51:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is undiluted bullshit. The history of the world is replete with multiple societies and cultures wherein "murder, stealing, etc were verboten.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:52:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You grew up in Western society, which is strongly grounded in Judeo-Christian ethics. Anyone who would argue otherwise is either ignorant of history or ethics (or both). You have been conditioned to live in accordance with a particular set of basic moral principles--don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, etc.--principles that are nonexistent in many (if not most) cultures throughout history. Where they are prevalent today is largely a result of Western influence on those cultures. Thus, yes, you in fact did need a book to tell you what's right and wrong. While it's arguable that most humans have a basic set of innate moral intuitions, it is clear from history that the Christian and Jewish scriptures in particular have been hugely influential in codifying and refining them. Your moral intuitions are a result of Christian influence whether you like it or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If you depend on a higher power to get you through life......how is that "self reliance"? If you need a book to tell you what's right and wrong...how is that self reliance? If everything that happens is in fact because of some higher power that deems it to be, and you are not in control..... how is that self reliance? It just doesn't make sense to me. How can you be self reliant.....but also "need" something to believe in to make you feel whole? Thus, yes, you in fact did need a book to tell you what's right and wrong. While it's arguable that most humans have a basic set of innate moral intuitions, it is clear from history that the Christian and Jewish scriptures in particular have been hugely influential in codifying and refining them. Your moral intuitions are a result of Christian influence whether you like it or not. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:52:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Impossible.....without the teachings in the good book, people would turn into savages. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: That is undiluted bullshit. The history of the world is replete with multiple societies and cultures wherein "murder, stealing, etc were verboten. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:53:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit. The first written record of ANY laws said pretty much that and they were not Christian, and not western. Much of the world had the same types of rules well before Christianity showed up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: If you depend on a higher power to get you through life......how is that "self reliance"? If you need a book to tell you what's right and wrong...how is that self reliance? If everything that happens is in fact because of some higher power that deems it to be, and you are not in control..... how is that self reliance? It just doesn't make sense to me. How can you be self reliant.....but also "need" something to believe in to make you feel whole? Thus, yes, you in fact did need a book to tell you what's right and wrong. While it's arguable that most humans have a basic set of innate moral intuitions, it is clear from history that the Christian and Jewish scriptures in particular have been hugely influential in codifying and refining them. Your moral intuitions are a result of Christian influence whether you like it or not. Rule of Law, and the concept of there being a higher authority than the local warlord came from religion. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:54:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's maybe also worth remembering that just for example, some of the earliest settlers in America were extremely religious and they sailed across the ocean and made a new life. But yeah, totally a bunch of weak willed pussies. Big difference. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:56:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Probably already been said, but I don't think that being a Christian means that you cannot be a very strong willed, confident, emotionally strong person.
I'm all of the above and a Christian. I'm not a Bible thumper and don't try to convert anyone, but I have faith, I pray, I go to church once or twice a month and generally try to live a good life. I also won't be run over, rail roaded or fall into a puddle of tears at the first sign of adversity. I see God more as a leader that doesn't micro manage. He gave us free will and brains for a reason...what we do with it is our decision. Praying is communication. I don't ask for anything when I pray...I tell my problems and thank Him for making me the way he did, so that I can deal with what comes my way. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:56:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Like Op I too am confident, "self reliant", and strong willed. And over the course of 60+ years on this planet I've come to exactly the opposite conclusion that OP has. I'm not in charge or able to control a single thing. It's all Him-all the time. EVERYTHING-all of it for His glory not mine .
As for Church I read and STUDY the Bible for myself. I go to church to encourage others. (When I go). It's turned into a weekly check the box social club for most of America with almost no Bible teaching, encouragement, or practical application. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:57:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So blame god instead? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know this is a sensitive topic, and I'm not trying to insult anyone....but I just want to ask the question. My wife is not super religious, but likes to go to church once a month or so. She says it makes her feel better…I’m ok with that. Every now and then she asks me to go with her…..I don’t want to, but it’s my wife…and a marriage is a compromise. I’m a very strong willed, confident, emotionally strong person. Everything good or bad that happens to me is because of my own hard work, my good choices, my bad choices, or good/bad luck….that’s it. I don’t know how people can sit for an hour and listen to some preacher get up there ramble on and on about how they need to look for a higher power to believe in when things get them down, when things don’t go right, or when they are having a rough time with life. I can listen to it for about 5 min, and my eyes glaze over and I’m thinking about riding dirt bikes, fishing, or a multitude of other things. I guess I just can’t wrap my mind around how people can be so emotionally fragile, so weak minded, so out of touch with reality that they can’t realize that everything that happens to them is of their own doing….nothing more, nothing less. What am I missing here? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 4:59:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what he (or anyone else) is equating. It's the fact that OP keeps insisting that religious people are by definition not self reliant, can't get through life without the crutch of faith, are weak and stupid. That's the arrogance. People who believe in religion come in all shapes and forms, from the stupid to some of the brightest and best in their field. I think one cannot generalize by a persons background whether they are a believer or not. For some to say only the weak and stupid are religious..well this guy sure wasnt and is at the top of his field. Not everything fits neatly into a box. |
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