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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 5/12/2001 2:05:56 PM EDT
Has a legally held NFA weapon ever been used in a crime before? I wouldn't think so, but I figured ppl here might know.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:13:41 PM EDT
Only once, as far as I am aware.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:16:15 PM EDT
Why would that matter? Plenty of full autos that are stolen from military armorys and police departments are. Which is a good argument for no gun control. The crooks and the government have them but only the well-off who can afford the extra expense of owning them have them.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:21:01 PM EDT
That last post should have siad as well as the well off, not but only the well off;(
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:26:24 PM EDT
During "Modern Marvels: Machineguns" on the History Channel, they made it a point of stating that since 1934, only one "machinegun" has ever been used in the commission of a crime. And it was used by a law enforcement officer.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:28:49 PM EDT
I have always heard that the single crime directly involving a legally possessed NFA weapon was committed by a police officer. I don't know if the gun was owned by the police officer or by the government. I also don't know if this is just a myth. It wouldn't surprise me if it were true. NFA weapons are very expensive and hard to get.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:31:17 PM EDT
A great question with a great answer! This is as per the tele-gospel History Chaneel Tales of the Gun. Unfortunately I can't remember the year of occurance but the Hist Channel stayes that only ONE 1 Uno Une Eins Ich crime has ever been commited with a legally owned/registered full auto weapon! The{size=5]KICKER[/size-5] is that the crime was commited by a law enforcement officer. The history channel, unfortunately does not cite source nor provide the happenstance of the incident, but I'd guess they were probably pretty thorough in their research. So I say Ban semi autos and let us have the full auto version. No crime that way! Except by LEO's!!!![:D]
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:40:43 PM EDT
Doesn’t matter to me, but it’s an assertation(that none or perhaps a handful were used in the 60+ years of the law) I’d like to have backed up. Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 3:09:14 PM EDT
I had heard that some LEO in Florida used a registered Thompson in a 'domestic dispute.' Hey, I said I heard it, didn't say it was right. [BD] Eric The(Whipped)Hun
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 3:12:13 PM EDT
Used 2 times (although I don't know if you consider the second a "crime")- The first case (refered to above)--I am not sure of the date or location, but a police officer used his privately owned MAC (if I remember correctly it was a .380) to kill an informant that was going to turn him in as a dirty cop. The second, I don't have details on, but I understand that someone used an NFA gun to kill themselves (must have wanted to be sure it "took"). AFARR
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 4:01:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er: That last post should have siad as well as the well off, not but only the well off;(
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You should have stopped on your last post.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 6:31:01 PM EDT
OK, this is from memory as the link I had was broken long ago. There were two "criminal incidents" involving NFA fully-automatic weapons. Both occurred in the early 1980's, and both involved Ingram Mac-10's. The first involved an off-duty police officer and his personally-owned firearm. Apparently he was a desk jockey, but suspected that a house in his neighborhood was a drug house. He "investigated" and ended up shooting a resident of the house. No drugs, no weapons. OOPS! He plead guilty to a homicide charge. The second was a domestic disturbance. When the police arrived, they found the husband laying on his bed, holding his young daughter (not threatening, from the description). However, his hand was under the covers, on his loaded and cocked Mac. The cops were not amused. I found these stories on a web page dedicated to NFA weapons and laws. I didn't copy the page (stupid of me) but I did save the link for future reference. This was before I became aware of how ephemeral web pages can be. Now I know - archive, archive, archive. Because this site gave dates, States, everything. [sniper]
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:20:09 PM EDT
those two events in hte last 60 years just go to show ya we need tighter laws on NFA weapons. does that make any sense.
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 7:17:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mattsd: those two events in hte last 60 years just go to show ya we need tighter laws on NFA weapons. does that make any sense.
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do any gun laws make sense???
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 9:51:46 AM EDT
Since 1934, only one legally owned machine gun has ever been used in crime, and that was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer. On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison.
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Link Posted: 5/13/2001 10:37:04 AM EDT
[url]www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html[/url] Crime with Legally Owned Machine Guns In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the BATF. (Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime. About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.) Since 1934, only one legally owned machine gun has ever been used in crime, and that was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies. Thanks to the staff of the Columbus, Ohio Public Library for the details of the Waller case. Source: talk.politics.guns FAQ, part 2. In Targeting Guns, Kleck cites the director of BATF testifying before Congress that he knew of less than ten crimes that were committed with legally owned machine guns (no time period was specified). Kleck says these crimes could have been nothing more than violations of gun regulations such as failure to notify BATF after moving a registered gun between states.
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 10:48:51 AM EDT
The gun law in Kennesaw, Georgia, makes perfect sense. Let's see how many of you know what law I am referring to?? Once passed the crime rate dropped and burglaries in particular dropped to almost zero, as I recall. I am an LEO and I think all localities should have this kind of law, but then again I am extemely pro-Constitutional. I also think most people have the brains to know how and when to use weapons responsibly. If not I come and see you ;-)).
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 10:52:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2001 11:07:46 AM EDT
Blue207 i believe it's the law there, that everyone must own a firearm.mmk
Link Posted: 5/14/2001 6:36:53 AM EDT
Well, I did say it was from memory. At least I was close. I'm surprised that Guncite didn't mention the second incident. Perhaps because it was a domestic violence arrest and the firearm was incidental. Personally, I think Kennesaw has it right. The other thing you never hear about Kennesaw is accidental firearm injuries, and homicides. If guns cause crime, Kennesaw should be a war zone. Of course, it's not - so there's nothing to report on. What I'd like to know is what the crime rates in Morton Grove look like now that handguns are banned there.
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