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Posted: 12/19/2003 4:18:53 AM EDT
I'm sitting here reading the National Park Service Weapons Regulations and notice that there is no provision for holders of a concealed weapons permit. Does anyone know if NPS allows CCW holders to protect themselves? In case you weren't aware, it can be very dangerous on public lands.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 4:48:15 AM EDT
According to Park Rangers I spoke with in Biscaine Bay, Florida, firearms are not allowed in National Parks. There may be some exception for hunting in some states.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 4:54:03 AM EDT
As far as I know carrying (open or concealed) is a no-no under any circumstances in a NP. In Va, CCW permit holders may carry concealed in state parks.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:03:50 AM EDT
it's against the law. but then some a-hole murdering you and raping your wife is also against the law so i would carry only if i could give the ranges no reason to search me.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:05:38 AM EDT
fwiw i googled this up: [url]http://www.packing.org/news/article.jsp/3444[/url]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:28:51 AM EDT
hell you can't even bring any gun on the KING'S LAND let alone carry a concealed handgun fucking sick
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:30:41 AM EDT
No...unlawful pretty much everywhere with or without a permit. Actually, in some places also for off duty LEOs as well, even in their state of residence. Do what you gotta.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:36:12 AM EDT
From what I've seen, carrying of any firearms is banned on ALL federal parks with certain exceptions for hunting. But don't worry, obviously the bad guys are under the same rules and can't carry either. Right?
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:53:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Feedingcannibal: According to Park Rangers I spoke with in Biscaine Bay, Florida, firearms are not allowed in National Parks. There may be some exception for hunting in some states.
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Hunting in National *Parks* is definately against the law, period. You can hunt in National *Forests* though. National *Parks* are administered through the Department of the Interior and National *Forests* are administered through the Department of Agriculture.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:55:58 AM EDT
My family used to own a cabin in a National Park. We carried (concealed) all the time especially in back areas. As they say, "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." We even had a ranger say he would look the other way if he saw someone carrying, in fact that happened a time or two.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:25:51 AM EDT
TN's hand gun carry law has a provision that says a person can't be charged with an illegal weapons violation for carrying in an unauthorized area, if the gun was lawfully used in self defense. I don't know if this would carry over for bears or not, but definitely for people defense. Might check your states law.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:35:52 AM EDT
The feds are way behind on this issue. Over the past 20 years a majority of states have adopted CCW, but this regulation (not a law) prohibiting weapons in national parks is still on the books. People living on the coasts do not realize how vast the National Parks, National Recreation Areas and National Monuments are. I live in an area surrounded by them, and it always makes me reluctant to enjoy the backcountry due to my inability to protect myself. I took a big hike in Zions NP a few months ago, and there a sign at the trail head giving suggestions about what to do in the event you are attacked by a mountain lion. Like don't run, make a lot of noise and fight back. Gee, that makes me feel better. I would have rather had my 44. Fortunately we do not have grizzlies or wolves here, at least not yet. I'd really like to get this regulation changed to allow CCW holders to carry, either by lobbying the executive or congress. Anybody else interested in getting some kind of campaign together?
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 8:17:37 AM EDT
Perhaps the states need to assert their sovereignty over those lands and permit firearms carry, either open or concealed. Oops, I forgot that the issue of state sovereignty was ruthlessly destroyed on April 9, 1865.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 8:48:24 AM EDT
TN's hand gun carry law has a provision that says a person can't be charged with an illegal weapons violation for carrying in an unauthorized area, if the gun was lawfully used in self defense. I don't know if this would carry over for bears or not, but definitely for people defense. Might check your states law.
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That will not mean a thing in a National Park… carry or possession of a firearm would be a federal violation not state.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 10:18:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
TN's hand gun carry law has a provision that says a person can't be charged with an illegal weapons violation for carrying in an unauthorized area, if the gun was lawfully used in self defense. I don't know if this would carry over for bears or not, but definitely for people defense. Might check your states law.
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That will not mean a thing in a National Park… carry or possession of a firearm would be a federal violation not state.
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You're right I didn't think about Nat'l Parks being Federal. I always carry in the local city & state parks, I assume they are regulated by each city and the state??
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 10:32:27 AM EDT
The Clinton Administration, as one of its first legislative accomplishments, addressed this issue. It is commonly referred to as "Don't ask, don't tell."
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 10:58:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 10:59:32 AM EDT by TomJefferson]
Living right next to one let me say, best to not get caught. It is not illegal while passing through on an established highway, pull off on a park road, bad news. Tj
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:23:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: It is not illegal while passing through on an established highway, pull off on a park road, bad news. Tj
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While not a "National Park", here in western KY we have an area known as "Land Between the Lakes(LBL)" that is owned by the Govt and controlled by the TVA. The state highway technically becomes a "federal" road for the 40+ mile stretch through this area and there are signs specifically warning that firearms are only allowed during hunting seasons (then you must show your hunting permit). I only say this to point out there is a difference between a "National Park" and "other" federally owned lands. I have only heard of vehicle searches turning up weapons violations either during hunting seasons or if a stop is made for some other reason, like speeding, and the LEO (they are federal) sees some reason to search the vehicle. The highway goes from KY to TN and both states are CCW states with LOTS of CCW carriers. I don't think the LEOs spend much effort trying to catch anyone carrying concealed since they are more concerned with poachers than with CCW types.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 2:57:27 PM EDT
You can posess a gun in national parks, but it must be disassembled and inaccesible.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 3:24:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: The Clinton Administration, as one of its first legislative accomplishments, addressed this issue. It is commonly referred to as "Don't ask, don't tell."
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What he said. NMSight
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 3:39:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 3:41:01 PM EDT by hapjack]
My understanding here in PA is, you could have it in your vehicle, but not concealed on yourself. edited to say: only if you have a CCW permit.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:04:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RichinCM: Perhaps the states need to assert their sovereignty over those lands and permit firearms carry, either open or concealed. Oops, I forgot that the issue of state sovereignty was ruthlessly destroyed on April 9, 1865.
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Not as far as this issue is concerned. See U.S. Const., Art IV, § 3, cl. 2 ("The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States....")
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:21:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gordo99:
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: It is not illegal while passing through on an established highway, pull off on a park road, bad news. Tj
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While not a "National Park", here in western KY we have an area known as "Land Between the Lakes(LBL)" that is owned by the Govt and controlled by the TVA. The state highway technically becomes a "federal" road for the 40+ mile stretch through this area and there are signs specifically warning that firearms are only allowed during hunting seasons (then you must show your hunting permit). I only say this to point out there is a difference between a "National Park" and "other" federally owned lands. I have only heard of vehicle searches turning up weapons violations either during hunting seasons or if a stop is made for some other reason, like speeding, and the LEO (they are federal) sees some reason to search the vehicle. The highway goes from KY to TN and both states are CCW states with LOTS of CCW carriers. I don't think the LEOs spend much effort trying to catch anyone carrying concealed since they are more concerned with poachers than with CCW types.
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Thanks for the add and you are absolutely right. I know the area. We kind of have some of the same issues here with TVA land which a rule apart from parks or national forest. Tj
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:36:04 PM EDT
I've never had a problem taking weapons into Sequoia/Kings Canyon or Yosemite. I tell them I have a unloaded pistol locked up. They say keep it that way and off we go. I think they would prefer to look the other way as the hassle if you get caught is a pain for all. ERGO - Don't get caught. If it comes down to a bear or your kids well. Make the right choice. With extremely few exceptions there is no Hunting in National Parks or National Monuments, many State Parks. National Forests, BLM lands are usually hunting and guns allowed.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 6:09:32 PM EDT
It would be interesting to see if the law could be applied in the same manner as it is in the post office per this article: [url]http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html[/url] The key portion being: Title 18, United States Code, Sec. 930. - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both. [b]Subsection (a) shall not apply to - the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or [red]other lawful purposes.[/red][/b]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 8:50:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 8:53:14 PM EDT by Max_Mike]
You're right I didn't think about Nat'l Parks being Federal. I always carry in the local city & state parks, I assume they are regulated by each city and the state??
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According to the Tennessee Department of Safety in TN it is not legal to carry in local city or state parks even with a CCW
CCW.39-17-1311: Carrying weapons on public parks, playgrounds, civic centers, and other recreational building and grounds.
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[url]http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/handguncodes.html[/url]
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